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Legal U.S. iGaming issues

Discussion in 'Casino Industry Discussion' started by P.V., Jan 8, 2014.

    Jan 8, 2014
  1. P.V.

    P.V. Senior Member webmeister

    Occupation:
    Make money!
    Location:
    Turn around...
    Some interesting press today...

    It appears that geo-location isn't as fool proof as everyone wished, at least from this article and sub links. It's becoming clearer to me now why more and more OC's are requesting notarized documents and maybe in the future where even a cell phone video displaying a player is logged in the site/account and also capturing the players pic during the video process.

    I was a against the above before but it appears extra steps still need to be taken at least within the U.S. market for full legalization.

    As the FBI confirmed, "Individuals may use a wide variety of mechanisms to conceal their physical location, or give the appearance of operating in a different jurisdiction …" This statement is easily proven using scientifically verifiable and undetectable methods to demonstrate how a person located in Pakistan can play poker on a system located inside New Jersey. We know because we have done it.

    Good read: You must register/login in order to see the link.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2014
    4 people like this.
  2. Jan 8, 2014
  3. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth
    You have to wonder whether these guys (some of whom are avowed anti-online gambling campaigners who have made some pretty way-out claims in the past) are associated with Adelson's big bucks initiative against any form of legalisation in the United States.

    Hiring a press release company to regurgitate an old story like the FBI letter to Congress, and then tacking on your own interpretation of how money moves on high stakes poker action on a major site is an interesting approach. The reference to the Hastings et al $5 million takedown of Viktor Blom is interesting but not particularly illustrative of easy money laundering imo.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Jan 8, 2014
  5. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    The problem cannot be solved, but by having a legal outlet, it can be monitored more closely.

    What is better, a legal poker site that can be monitored for signs of money laundering, or an offshore illegal site doing it's best to operate within the US to satisfy demand that can't be monitored effectively.

    The solution of not having legal sites only works if it is possible to achieve a 100% lockout of the illegal offshore sites.

    Money can also be laundered through a land casino high stakes poker contest, the "terrorists" just have to get off their ass and onto a plane. It can be just as unmonitored if organised offshore, and offering prize money that attracts the top players, who will also get off their asses and onto a plane.

    Whether online or offline, surely the flows of money in and out of the US can be monitored, and then statistically analysed for signs of unusual activity. With a legal poker site, it should be pretty easy to then correlate these suspicious flows with the site's own records of player activity, an offshore "illegal" site would not even admit the suspect plays there, let alone supply records.

    In the FBI's example, how does the Pakistani player actually WITHDRAW their winnings from the New Jersey site, this is the point where most frauds end up getting busted.
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. Jan 8, 2014
  7. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth
    Coincidentally with this press release from Kindt and others, the AGA chief exec Geoff Freeman wrote a very positive op-ed piece in The Hill, extolling the virtues of legalisation as a way to prevent laundering and crime, and acknowledging that the genie is now out of the bottle and will continue to grow in answer to player demand.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Jan 9, 2014
  9. P.V.

    P.V. Senior Member webmeister

    Occupation:
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    Good point but it appears they employ real people living within the state to open bank accounts in their name and also being able to prove they're a resident of the state and pass all checks.

    The moles or whatever you want to call them never play on the site, in this case it would be the guy in Packistan, then somehow the mole finds a way to move the funds back overseas I assume.

    I can't figure out how the FBI set up a player in Packistan to spoof the geo-location as stated within their letter. It had to be some type of sophisticated program allowing the offshore player to access the moles computer in NJ and play the games, JMO.

    I'm no expert so I'm just guessing with my comments. I do think the US is doing everything possible and will continue to improve plugging backdoors and issues such as this, if in fact it's true.
     
  10. Jan 9, 2014
  11. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth
    I'm not so sure that the FBI did say they had set up the Pakistani demonstration...take a look at the PR Newswire release (link below).

    These four anti-gambling activists have quite cleverly conflated their own views with the FBI's statement of September 2013 imo.

    And in any event, the FBI have been known to be economical with the truth when it suits them, as for example when they intimidated the advertising industry against taking on internet gambling adverts a few years ago.

    You must register/login in order to see the link.
     
    1 person likes this.
  12. Jan 9, 2014
  13. rockycatt

    rockycatt meistercatt CAG MM

    Occupation:
    carpenter
    Location:
    Boston
    i am surprised that these intellectual geniuses haven't considered the fact that there are many other currencies that can meet there needs and not have to worry about theses rather armature theories
    they stay up dreaming of :confused: [on my dime]
     
  14. Jan 9, 2014
  15. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    So, this is nothing more sinister than "Gnoming". There is still an actual identifiable person on the end of the transaction who can be questioned by the FBI about the activity if the need arises. The problem seems more about enforcing the protectionist stance of the individual US states, who fear that players from another state will exploit this system to enable them to play at the New Jersey site. It's not so much a problem for NJ, who will be enriched, but a problem for the other states who will have gambling money enriching NJs coffers rather than their own, and who might object to it's citizens enjoying more freedoms than the particular state allows.

    I have heard that this has happened before with booze, with residents of "dry" states and counties simply driving over the border to drink, or buy booze to bring home, thus overriding the morals of the religious right of the state or county that has decreed that alcohol is a sin, and must not be indulged in by it's citizens.

    In the supposed FBI example, the money is still in the US, and in order to use it to fund "another 9/11", it has to be sent back to Pakistan. Their "gnome" will have to do this, so there will be a pretty obvious trail. NJ poker player keeps winning, and sends his winnings back to Pakistan on a regular basis. It doesn't matter who's brain is making the decisions in each hand, just follow the money and it looks pretty damn suspicious as I would not expect your average US poker player to send their money back to Pakistan rather than spend it on himself, or continue to use it to bankroll his games. This is surely something that will be monitored as a matter of course by the banks, as well as the official NJ poker operator.

    There are far easier and less detectable ways to slip money to Pakistan.
     
  16. Jan 10, 2014
  17. jaimelosano8768

    jaimelosano8768 Banned User - sockpuppet - multiple forum accounts

    Occupation:
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    Location:
    Barcelona, Spain
    I'm amazed of all the drama FBI put up in there....
     

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