Ladbrokes simple don't want to pay

[243 lines=daft]

It would be really useful to get some feedback from Ladbrokes at this point.

On the one hand, redsfan is right that if things have played out as described in this thread it is akin to a shoplifter only giving back what he has been caught taking. Which would be a matter of serious concern for those of us who regularly use Ladbrokes and otherwise recommend it as a casino

On the other hand, the OP has only joined the forum this month, has only posted about this subject, and has not submitted any actual details of these events as things got 'resolved' prior to a PAB afaics


Either way, Ladbrokes could shed light here. And should be doing so asap as this is an extremely serious accusation being made considering they are probably the go-to Microgaming casino of choice after 32 Red

 

[thenry14]

Maybe slightly off topic, but along the lines of Ladbrokes going rogue.

Got an email through from them today offering 15% bonus in the new Vegas Casino, 30x(d+b). Yes thats right, 230xB on Slots


JOG ON BOYS


Seriously, so many casual players will get their deposits locked in with this bonus, with no chance of ever winning. One of the most rogue things I have seen from a UK bookmaker.

 

[dionysus]

Maybe slightly off topic, but along the lines of Ladbrokes going rogue.

Got an email through from them today offering 15% bonus in the new Vegas Casino, 30x(d+b). Yes thats right, 230xB on Slots


JOG ON BOYS


Seriously, so many casual players will get their deposits locked in with this bonus, with no chance of ever winning. One of the most rogue things I have seen from a UK bookmaker.

I'm a little lost here - 30X or 230X?..because 30X is pretty low or at least average

 

[thenry14]

Ladbrokes have quoted the wagering requirement as 30 times deposit PLUS bonus.

This is equal to 230 times the bonus amount received.

 

[mimi26]

Maybe slightly off topic, but along the lines of Ladbrokes going rogue.

Got an email through from them today offering 15% bonus in the new Vegas Casino, 30x(d+b). Yes thats right, 230xB on Slots


JOG ON BOYS


Seriously, so many casual players will get their deposits locked in with this bonus, with no chance of ever winning. One of the most rogue things I have seen from a UK bookmaker.

I have just had an email from them offering 30% bonus on all deposits, say If I deposit 100 I get 30 bonus then I have to turn over 130 30x to be able to withdraw Am I right???

Well they can sod off

 

[mimi26]

Ladbrokes have quoted the wagering requirement as 30 times deposit PLUS bonus.

This is equal to 230 times the bonus amount received.

How do you get to that amount

 

[FourTeller]

How do you get to that amount

Assuming $100 is deposited for a 15% bonus with a 30x(D+B) WR, then (100+15)x30=3450 total playthrough which, divided by the bonus amount alone i.e. 15, results in a 230xWR for the $15 bonus. Yet another perfect illustration of why most casinos have shifted from expressing wagering requirements as a multiple of the bonus amount only and now make it bonus+deposit to disguise just how bad the playthrough rate really is.

 

[mimi26]

Assuming $100 is deposited for a 15% bonus with a 30x(D+B) WR, then (100+15)x30=3450 total playthrough which, divided by the bonus amount alone i.e. 15, results in a 230xWR for the $15 bonus. Yet another perfect illustration of why most casinos have shifted from expressing wagering requirements as a multiple of the bonus amount only and now make it bonus+deposit to disguise just how bad the playthrough rate really is.

Thanks I have just emailed them for clarification, because I am not very bright when it comes to bonuses, But as this is the case I shall just tell them to exclude me from the bonuses why on earth would anyone want to deposit their own money for it to be tied up in a 30x WR is beyond me

 

[vinylweatherman]

This is such a dramatic downhill lurch for Ladbrokes that it looks like they have sold off their online casino business, but allowed the new owners to carry on using the Ladbrokes brand.

When they were Microgaming, their WR was much lower than the norm for Microgaming casinos of 30xB. Now they have gone the other way, and it's perfectly fair to compare on a like for like basis as they used to quote their WR as x Bonus when it was as little as 5x in some cases.

They risk driving away many of their loyal players with this dramatic change, and this is on top of those they have driven away by announcing the ditching of Microgaming in favour of Playtech.

It's possible that they don't really care that much about losing customers from the casino side of the business, as they are a well known high street sports betting brand, rather than a high street casino brand. I expect the WR for sportsbook boni is much more reasonable.

 

[Andy Walker]

It's possible that they don't really care that much about losing customers from the casino side of the business, as they are a well known high street sports betting brand, rather than a high street casino brand. I expect the WR for sportsbook boni is much more reasonable.

I'd like to question the sports betting side of Ladbrokes and other betting shops in the UK, there is evidence that the sport betting side is becoming a sideline to their main income of late?

That being FOBT's that are able to take cash bets of up to £100 on some games every twenty seconds, at that level even the hardened high roller may become a little shy.

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[vinylweatherman]

I'd like to question the sports betting side of Ladbrokes and other betting shops in the UK, there is evidence that the sport betting side is becoming a sideline to their main income of late?

That being FOBT's that are able to take cash bets of up to £100 on some games every twenty seconds, at that level even the hardened high roller may become a little shy.

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The FOBTs are part of the high street business, and so form part of their "sports" business, even though it's not sports betting itself, rather a distraction for customers waiting for their race or match to finish, which in many of their shops can be seen live on a bank of screens (rights permitting, presumably).

With so much being made from the FOBT side, they probably see this as the major non-sport part of their income, and probably see the online casino as the "distraction" for the sportsbook customers, which might explain why casino players feel they are not valued.

 

[Nifty29]

This is such a dramatic downhill lurch for Ladbrokes that it looks like they have sold off their online casino business, but allowed the new owners to carry on using the Ladbrokes brand.

When they were Microgaming, their WR was much lower than the norm for Microgaming casinos of 30xB. Now they have gone the other way, and it's perfectly fair to compare on a like for like basis as they used to quote their WR as x Bonus when it was as little as 5x in some cases.

They risk driving away many of their loyal players with this dramatic change, and this is on top of those they have driven away by announcing the ditching of Microgaming in favour of Playtech.

It's possible that they don't really care that much about losing customers from the casino side of the business, as they are a well known high street sports betting brand, rather than a high street casino brand. I expect the WR for sportsbook boni is much more reasonable.

Can you please point me to the news report or company announcement stating that Ladbrokes have sold their casino business? I would think Bryan would be VERY interested.

FYI, sportsbook wagering is always more reasonable in regards to bonuses. My bookie here is 2xBonus...very reasonable.

 

[questa]

They stil have the MG casino, but presumably will phase that out at some point. 230xB on slots is ridiculous, and a 15% bonus too!

I think only 32red is left worth playing at now, in my opinon.

 

[Andy Walker]

The FOBTs are part of the high street business, and so form part of their "sports" business, even though it's not sports betting itself, rather a distraction for customers waiting for their race or match to finish, which in many of their shops can be seen live on a bank of screens (rights permitting, presumably).

Yeah right.

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The first sentence does seem to contradict the second one, I believe?

With so much being made from the FOBT side, they probably see this as the major non-sport part of their income, and probably see the online casino as the "distraction" for the sportsbook customers, which might explain why casino players feel they are not valued.

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I maybe reading this wrong though lol

 

[GrandMaster]

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Your links don't work.

 

[mimi26]

They stil have the MG casino, but presumably will phase that out at some point. 230xB on slots is ridiculous, and a 15% bonus too!

I think only 32red is left worth playing at now, in my opinon.

I will be really sad to leave Ladbrokes as I have been a loyal player there for 7 years but if they just stick with playtech and get rid of MG well they wont see me for the smoke from my stilettos

 

[Andy Walker]

Your links don't work.

Sorry just realised the security in my browser kicked in again and obfuscated the links.

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Outdated URL (Invalid)

Here they are in plain text also

*

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*Outdated URL (Invalid)

 

[Nifty29]

Sorry just realised the security in my browser kicked in again and obfuscated the links.

[urtp://calvinayre.com/2013/03/23/business/british-bookmakers-push-back-against-fobt-hysteria/[/url]

Outdated URL (Invalid)

Here they are in plain text also

*

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*Outdated URL (Invalid)

Thanks Andy

Looks like VWMs assumptions were wrong (how 'bout that). Laddies have entered into a "no win no fee" profit share deal with Playtech.

Laddies have NOT sold their casino business.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Can you please point me to the news report or company announcement stating that Ladbrokes have sold their casino business? I would think Bryan would be VERY interested.

FYI, sportsbook wagering is always more reasonable in regards to bonuses. My bookie here is 2xBonus...very reasonable.

It's not run by Ladbrokes (the UK bookies), hasn't been since it was created. It's run by an offshore company for tax dodging reasons. The CS when communicating with me have told me that almost everything is outsourced, even the crediting of the promotions. The CS could barely do anything regarding an account, and the communications between their CS and their outsourced agents is pretty indirect, email exchange only, and expect a wait of 48 hours, with no means for CS to expedite matters.

It is probably not a sale in the conventional sense, rather a licensing of the Ladbrokes brand to an offshore operating company who's beneficial ownership is "secret" due to it's corporate structure and location. We just assume that Ladbrokes call the shots as it's their brand that is at stake, but recent developments seem to suggest otherwise.

We have seen this situation before with other household names. I recall a player having trouble with Vernons casino, and trying to get a resolution by contacting the main Vernons company here in the UK, only to be told the casino was "nothing to do with us", and to contact the offshore casino bearing the name directly (which they had already been doing, but not getting very far).

You are not going to get press releases about such deals as it would inform the masses that the offshore casinos bearing the household brands may not necessarily have anything to do with the company they know and feel safe with due to it's being so well known and respected as a high street brand.

 

[Nifty29]

It's not run by Ladbrokes (the UK bookies), hasn't been since it was created. It's run by an offshore company for tax dodging reasons. The CS when communicating with me have told me that almost everything is outsourced, even the crediting of the promotions. The CS could barely do anything regarding an account, and the communications between their CS and their outsourced agents is pretty indirect, email exchange only, and expect a wait of 48 hours, with no means for CS to expedite matters.

It is probably not a sale in the conventional sense, rather a licensing of the Ladbrokes brand to an offshore operating company who's beneficial ownership is "secret" due to it's corporate structure and location. We just assume that Ladbrokes call the shots as it's their brand that is at stake, but recent developments seem to suggest otherwise.

We have seen this situation before with other household names. I recall a player having trouble with Vernons casino, and trying to get a resolution by contacting the main Vernons company here in the UK, only to be told the casino was "nothing to do with us", and to contact the offshore casino bearing the name directly (which they had already been doing, but not getting very far).

You are not going to get press releases about such deals as it would inform the masses that the offshore casinos bearing the household brands may not necessarily have anything to do with the company they know and feel safe with due to it's being so well known and respected as a high street brand.

Regardless of the usual multi-paragraphic tangent that usually follows somebody pointing out that you're wrong.....

......you're still wrong.

Nothing was sold. Just admit your fault for once. Its not hard.

If you have evidence to the contrary, then please provide it. The fact that you nattered on about something irrelevant tells me that you do not, however, possess such evidence.

 

[KasinoKing]

I will be really sad to leave Ladbrokes as I have been a loyal player there for 7 years but if they just stick with playtech and get rid of MG well they wont see me for the smoke from my stilettos

Will be the same for me IF they start offering crap bonuses and having those highly irritating pop-up chat windows all the other Playtechs seem to have...

KK

 

[thenry14]

Regardless of the usual multi-paragraphic tangent that usually follows somebody pointing out that you're wrong.....

......you're still wrong.

Nothing was sold. Just admit your fault for once. Its not hard.

If you have evidence to the contrary, then please provide it. The fact that you nattered on about something irrelevant tells me that you do not, however, possess such evidence.

I'm not defending or siding with anyone here. VWM might be wrong in that the casino has actually been sold, but does provide some useful insight with his experince of playing at Ladbrokes Vegas Casino. I think the key points are:

1. Ladbrokes have opened a Playtech casino
2. From anecdotal evidence from VWM, this thread, and mainstream news, it appears that Ladbrokes are not operating the casino, although they may have some oversight
3. There seems to be some kind of profit sharing initiative between Playtech and Ladbrokes, but the casino has not been 'sold'
4. The Casino, managed by Playtech, does not meet the standards offered by Ladbrokes other products, including their Microgaming casino
5. Offering a bonus that must be played through 230 times before it must be withdrawn is unfair to the uneducated customer, and some may percieve this as unethical business practice The player has tiny chance of making any kind of withdrawal (maybe one of the mathemeticians here could estimate a chance of break even with the bonus)?
6. The feedback from most players on Casinomeister regarding the Vegas Casino has been wholly negative, hopefully Ladbrokes notice this, and we can enjoy a better 'Ladbrokes' experience at the Playtech casino in the near future

VWM/Nifty, would you agree? Or have I misinterpreted some of this?

 

[vinylweatherman]

I'm not defending or siding with anyone here. VWM might be wrong in that the casino has actually been sold, but does provide some useful insight with his experince of playing at Ladbrokes Vegas Casino. I think the key points are:

1. Ladbrokes have opened a Playtech casino
2. From anecdotal evidence from VWM, this thread, and mainstream news, it appears that Ladbrokes are not operating the casino, although they may have some oversight
3. There seems to be some kind of profit sharing initiative between Playtech and Ladbrokes, but the casino has not been 'sold'
4. The Casino, managed by Playtech, does not meet the standards offered by Ladbrokes other products, including their Microgaming casino
5. Offering a bonus that must be played through 230 times before it must be withdrawn is unfair to the uneducated customer, and some may percieve this as unethical business practice The player has tiny chance of making any kind of withdrawal (maybe one of the mathemeticians here could estimate a chance of break even with the bonus)?
6. The feedback from most players on Casinomeister regarding the Vegas Casino has been wholly negative, hopefully Ladbrokes notice this, and we can enjoy a better 'Ladbrokes' experience at the Playtech casino in the near future

VWM/Nifty, would you agree? Or have I misinterpreted some of this?

The deal is more fully described in the interim report:-

On 10 March 2013, the Group acquired 100% of the share capital of The Nation’s Traffic Limited (“TNT”). On the same day, the Group signed a five year agreement with PT Turnkey Services Limited (“Playtech”) for the provision of marketing, operational and CRM services (“marketing services agreement”) to the Digital division of the Group, which also included a provision for the acquisition of an experienced and skilled digital marketing team with a track record of success with online gaming companies in order to accelerate the growth of Ladbrokes’ online and mobile revenues. On 1 May 2013,

TNT was renamed Ladbrokes Israel Limited

and by this date forty experienced marketing personnel, the majority from Playtech, had joined Ladbrokes Israel Limited under the agreed terms of the acquisition.

No, they didn't sell their casino business, they BOUGHT it

The Playtech casino is run by Ladbrokes Israel and Playtech (in the form of PT Turnkey Services Ltd, staffed in the majority by Playtech personnel.

Effectively, the Playtech casino, the same as the MGS one, is "outsourced", rather than being run by Ladbrokes directors and managers.

This high dependency on third parties is why I had frequent experiences of poor CS from the MGS casino, with CS agents having to refer even relatively minor issues to their "third party providers", to which they had only indirect contact.

 

[Andy Walker]

Of Some here

You have to appreciate the skill to carefully manipulate responses, meld them, twist them, paint them blue and then paint them yellow as a new reflection on what was said already but not that really because the former posts were correct but not in the way you thought they were right, just updated to convince you that actually they were right (they always were) and what you read was your error.

If you don’t understand my post, ask a resident expert lol

 

[Ajax]

You should also tell the forum exactly HOW you turned €1,500 into €9,889...?
I want to know the secret goddamnit! :sob:

KK

Hahaha same here. Did you hit a lucky streak, jackpot or was it slow grind throughout?