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Ladbrokes simple don't want to pay

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Bonus Issues' started by frida427, Aug 23, 2013.

    Aug 23, 2013
  1. frida427

    frida427 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    In Between Work I use to work at cosmetic shop
    Location:
    Sweden
    Dear Mrs L

    Username:

    Thank you for your previous emails and documents verifying your identity and address.

    The deposit, bonus and wagering history of your Ladbrokes account has been reviewed from the date of registration, 2013-08-12.

    You made three separate deposits of €500.00, €200.00 and €100.00 within the first 25 minutes of your account being created and bonuses of €750.00 were awarded to your account which you then used to wager.

    It is clear from the transaction and wagering history that your sole intention was to take advantage of the generous bonus scheme introducing the new Vegas casino and not in the spirit of the promotion itself.

    You transferred €9889.00 from the Vegas casino to your main sports account and then withdrew €5000.00 to your registered payment method. Your profit from the bonus is therefore €4200.00. However, Ladbrokes will not be seeking to recover these funds.

    Having taken everything into consideration, Ladbrokes have decided that your business is no longer welcome and therefore your account has been permanently suspended.

    Please use the following link to review Ladbrokes Terms and Conditions:

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    15. Termination of Account

    Please also see the following link for your review and any further action you may wish to consider:

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    Thank you for your understanding in this matter.

    Kind regards,
     
  2. Aug 23, 2013
  3. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Very funny.

    They have absolutely no legal grounds to recover what they have paid already (unless there has been fraud involved), as no terms were broken, and they are pulling "the spirit of the bonus" stunt.

    If anything, YOU have legal grounds under UK law to recover the rest.

    They are of course within their rights to close the account, but only after anything owing has been paid.

    It's this kind of thing that serves to weaken the cases of Gibraltar and Malta that the new UK regime has nothing to do with protecting consumers, and is solely a tax raising move.

    Casinos get away with things that are against UK consumer protection laws because they operate from other EU countries. The new UK regime would require them to hold a UK secondary license, and bind them to UK law when it comes to their dealings with UK players.

    Ladbrokes have a history of occasionally pulling this "spirit of the bonus" excuse for non payment.

    They are however back in the accredited list, so a PAB would be the way forward for this.

    They also have a rep, so contact the rep asking for a more detailed explanation of what actual terms you broke, as the reasoning you have received is in violation of the standards for accreditation.

     
    10 people like this.
  4. Aug 24, 2013
  5. chris87

    chris87 Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Run a bar
    Location:
    UK
    Shocking. In my view Ladbrokes should not be accredited here if what the OP says is correct.
    My experience with them has been less than acceptable, poor customer service and a reluctance to provide details of my RTP, and when they eventually did it was awful and they said there was "nothing they could do" Ok, but other casinos don't say this and will throw you a few free spins if your luck is particularly poor.

    They didn't say I was acting "outside the spirit of the bonus" when I lost hundreds of pounds of my own money. It works both ways, we take the risk and so should they. I hope the OP submits a PAB and Max follows up accordingly.
     
  6. Aug 24, 2013
  7. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    PAID CASINO SHILL
    Location:
    Turn right, then right. then right again
    How much do they owe you?
     
  8. Aug 24, 2013
  9. frida427

    frida427 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    In Between Work I use to work at cosmetic shop
    Location:
    Sweden
    I am in process of contacting the Manager through Private Messaging they owe 4989
     
  10. Aug 24, 2013
  11. LaHutti

    LaHutti Sr. ÜberUnter Ass. Man. webby PABnonaccred PABaccred

    Occupation:
    .
    Location:
    East and West
    You should PAB this immediately, if the rep is unable/unwilling to solve it.
     
  12. Aug 24, 2013
  13. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    You should also tell the forum exactly HOW you turned €1,500 into €9,889...?
    I want to know the secret goddamnit! :sob:

    KK
     
  14. Aug 24, 2013
  15. mimi26

    mimi26 Meister Member

    Occupation:
    nurse
    Location:
    uk
    wow, how on earth did you manage to meet the WR, Ladbrokes Vegas you have to wager the bonus plus deposit 30x (I think this is unacceptable BTW), I would never take a bonus on the vegas casino.

    Does anyone else think that these WR are ludicrous
     
  16. Aug 24, 2013
  17. LaHutti

    LaHutti Sr. ÜberUnter Ass. Man. webby PABnonaccred PABaccred

    Occupation:
    .
    Location:
    East and West
    Just out of curiosity, do you ask because you think it's impossible, or just because you want to try the same technique ?

    I've turned $100 deposits with 100% bonuses into $10K withdrawals a couple of times, even with insane playthrough, so it is indeed possible (though very rare), which, I guess, is why a lot of casinos now have max bet rules attached to their promos....You know what they say ...Don't Gamble With Scared Money (I'm thinknig you have the "secret" right there) :rolleyes:

     
    1 person likes this.
  18. Aug 24, 2013
  19. Przecinek

    Przecinek Dormant account

    Occupation:
    CSA
    Location:
    Respect-land
    Last deposit was $100 so WR was significantly smaller than 1500$ x 60.

    Anyway I'm guessing Ladbrokes will sort that out and we might not hear from OP ever again. Still this post is a warning shot as I always considered Ladbrokes to almost rock solid.

    Making three deposits in short space of time as a proof? Please... this is what they want you to do when you start chasing loses, hence multiple deposit offers.
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. Aug 24, 2013
  21. albrco123

    albrco123 "Wish i could Re-" Member

    Occupation:
    business
    Location:
    US
    This is one of those threads where you would really like to hear an explanation of the Casino's POV from a rep.

    I hope the OP gets a satisfactory outcome.

    Al
     
  22. Aug 24, 2013
  23. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    Hang on a minute - Ladbrokes are usually very good so I think there's more to this. The inference in the first post suggests the depositor/OP made a series of deposits to accrue all the bonuses at once, as they were made in a few minutes. This would give him more balance to play with than the bonus intended, so I can understand their CS e-mail. This however, shouldn't be right as the bonuses would have to be spent first and not stacked up. So, the other alternative is that the OP deposited, played high stakes and lost in a few minutes and re-deposited taking bonuses and so-on and got lucky on the final deposit. This pattern DOES suggest AP/bonus abuse and possibly the OP was fortunate that if he breached their terms that he actually received the first 5k/4200 profit.
    AP/abuse is a grey area and it seems Ladbrokes would have not paid the first 5k had they spotted it sooner. PAB possibly....?
     
  24. Aug 24, 2013
  25. Andy Walker

    Andy Walker Full Member

    Occupation:
    Tax Payer
    Location:
    UK
    It’s the same ole same ole thing really, put a system in place that has the potential to be gamed and it will.

    How do you write terms and conditions that cover luck, judgement and intent?
     
  26. Aug 24, 2013
  27. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    EXECUTIVE
    Location:
    SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
    So if I am reading this correctly you were able to get the $5k you withdrew initially and they locked your account with the remaining $4989 in it. That means the balance includes your $4200 in winnings and $789 of your deposits. So how the heck can they say they wont be recovering the $4200 winnings? I can see no wrong in them not wanting your business but not when there is still a withdrawable balance in it. The decent thing for them to do is transfer the remaining $4989 to your preferred method of payment and you can then call it quits.
     
    5 people like this.
  28. Aug 24, 2013
  29. Przecinek

    Przecinek Dormant account

    Occupation:
    CSA
    Location:
    Respect-land

    I would lean towards your second suggestion (deposit- bust - deposit -bust). No smoke and mirrors just regular advantage play. If there is no max bet in place then this is plain spirit of the promotion nonsense - and we can safely assume there is none since Ladbrokes didn't mention anything. I can be a highroller and play with 10k deposits, but first want to deposit 1.5k to take advantage of their bonus. Does that mean I also will get my winnings confiscated. Casinos have to learn that they need clear rules or they will chase players away. I'm afraid Ladbrokes dropped the ball on this one, and will just sweep this under the carpet, rather than challenge community.
     
  30. Aug 24, 2013
  31. hakapuku

    hakapuku Banned User - repeated violations of rule 1.14 (tr

    Occupation:
    businessman
    Location:
    UA
    I remember William Hill casino was great once. Until it merged with Playtech. Then the problems started. Since new Vegas Ladbrokes casino is now using Playtech, I think this is where we should look for the answers.
     
    3 people like this.
  32. Aug 25, 2013
  33. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    EXECUTIVE
    Location:
    SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
    WH was not that great even when powered by Cryptologic. They never got back to me on issues I raised. I agree, however, that some casinos/groups go downhill abruptly after joining Playtech. One that used to be good was Mapau but then they joined PT and then migrated to some lesser software and was finally rogued. Yes, many casinos using the PT platform are poor but Playtech, to my knowledge, doesn't lift a finger to help. Its bizarre as I understand they are listed in the UK stock market.
     
    1 person likes this.
  34. Aug 25, 2013
  35. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    However, the player was NOT told they had broken the terms, but that their game play was reviewed and it was deemed they had not played within the spirit of the bonus, not that any terms violations had slipped through the net due to incompetent audits.

    Given the "insane" WR, and the fact that no terms were broken, it looks like a player that was just lucky enough to beat these "insane" odds, and instead of playing on, knew when to quit whilst ahead and managed to find the cashout button. They call it breaking the spirit of the bonus, I call it responsible gambling.

    Stacking bonus offers is actually a BAD move for advantage players, as although it increases the bankroll, it also increases the WR. Playing each bonus separately is a better AP tactic as the session with all the luck is not dragged down by the WR from the unlucky deposits.

    The WR and other terms should be enough to ensure that the bonus is +EV over the long term for the casino, but they have to expect that occasionally they will get stung by a very lucky player who will make a substantial win from their first few sessions. In the longer term though, such players tend to give it all back, and can only win consistently by being better at maths than the casino manager (as Enzo puts it).

    Knowing just how the OP achieved this would help to understand what Ladbrokes mean by "spirit of the bonus" in this case. We can then see whether this was just a player being lucky and cashing out responsibly, or a screw up in the production of the terms that are now being addressed retrospectively by invoking "spirit of the bonus".

    An accredited casino should have no place for "spirit of the bonus" terminology, but I remember this term being pointed out when they became accredited, and a discussion surrounding them having this term that could not actually be used, and us being assured by Ladbrokes that it was not a term they would use, but equally not a term they seemed prepared to remove altogether.

    It seems now that they DID intend to use it on some occasions, seemingly as an "F U Clause" to cover their asses if they were to screw up in making up the explicit terms for a given promotion, as appears to be the case here.
     
    1 person likes this.
  36. Aug 26, 2013
  37. questa

    questa Dormant account PABnononaccred PABnoaccred

    Occupation:
    Manager
    Location:
    UK
    Actually when ladbrokes launched their playtech, they employed sixty playtech staff to work with them on site for a few months to oversee the launch, I am told. One of the roles is to monitor game play style....
     
  38. Aug 26, 2013
  39. frida427

    frida427 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    In Between Work I use to work at cosmetic shop
    Location:
    Sweden
    Ladbrokes paid in full thank you all for your support and advice
     
    3 people like this.

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