Kindred owned brands clobbered with £7m fine by the UKGC

[snorky510238]

I’m representing a brand so I can’t respond how I’d like. Have a great day.

Not much point in commenting if you can’t add any context to your argument. A lot could have changed since you were there.

 

[Mark_Lottomart]

Not much point in commenting if you can’t add any context to your argument. A lot could have changed since you were there.

Not much point in commenting when you have no idea how a business is run. Best wishes.

 

[greylady]

On what grounds?

It's not only the financial aspect that you have to consider Snorks.

A fine like that could have consequences for their reputation and as such could have a significant effect on customer confidence, which could mean they don't trust the Company so therefore could lead to a loss of their customer numbers.

They could even be forced to stop operating

There are more far reaching consequences than you can imagine. Why do you think so many casino's go over the top with interpreting and implementing the UKGC's regulations.

 

[snorky510238]

It's not only the financial aspect that you have to consider Snorks.

A fine like that could have consequences for their reputation and as such could have a significant effect on customer confidence, which could mean they don't trust the Company so therefore could lead to a loss of their customer numbers.

They could even be forced to stop operating

There are more far reaching consequences than you can imagine. Why do you think so many casino's go over the top with interpreting and implementing the UKGC's regulations.

You’d have thought they would have made ultra sure they had got it right then, wouldn’t you?

 

[snorky510238]

Not much point in commenting if you can’t add any context to your argument. A lot could have changed since you were there.

Doesn’t sound like 32 Red do either.

 

[snorky510238]

Not much point in commenting when you have no idea how a business is run. Best wishes.

Sounds like 32 Red are the ones who don’t know how to run a business from where I am sitting.

 

[greylady]

You’d have thought they would have made ultra sure they had got it right then, wouldn’t you?

I would assume it's a delicate balancing act between adhering to the UKGC's regulations and attempting to not be over onerous on the customer so as to not put them off - how many people complain on here about KYC, SOW etc?

I try not to assume where I don't know the facts

 

[Reelsoffun]

I would love to know what % of customers that are requested SOW, fail to comply and move on, i bet it will increase as time goes on, most people will have nothing to hide but still wont want to give all the info they now seem to be requesting. I think customer numbers are going to plummet at all casinos in the next year.

 

[snorky510238]

I would assume it's a delicate balancing act between adhering to the UKGC's regulations and attempting to not be over onerous on the customer so as to not put them off - how many people complain on here about KYC, SOW etc?

I try not to assume where I don't know the facts

I think to be on the safe side, you would SOW someone who deposited 43k in a week. There ain’t too many people around who can afford that, (unless I am in the wrong job).

 

[snorky510238]

I would love to know what % of customers that are requested SOW, fail to comply and move on, i bet it will increase as time goes on, most people will have nothing to hide but still wont want to give all the info they now seem to be requesting. I think customer numbers are going to plummet at all casinos in the next year.

Seems to me that they all ready know what’s coming and are making hay while the sun shines. I have noticed an alarming increase of consecutive dead spins and lack of bonus rounds on pretty much every game at all Casinos. It ain’t what it used to be, that’s for certain.

 

[Reelsoffun]

Exactly what i said in the SOW thread yesterday that they are making hay while they can

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

That'll teach 'em! I'm sure they're crying all the way to Cayman Islands on their private jets.

According to the report one player managed to deposit £43K and lose £36K of it in seven days, that's the annual UK average salary, so yeah, perhaps they weren't doing things properly.....

Could u imagine if player A deposited £500 and withdrew £43k and then repeated that on the next deposit.

I’m sure due diligence would have been done then……….. for the next 3 months before the poor sod got his/her money.

 

[judgenico]

i,ll let you into a little secret, i have a good friend who,s a buisness owner and self made millionaire and who likes a little gamble,now to save all the hassle of himself providing all that documentation i let him use a couple of my accounts he sends me money over to my bank account i then load my gambling account and away he goes,now on certain sites they have imposed deposit limits but theres one particular uk sport bookie mention no names who have done nothing up to this point and i reckon deposits over the last year must of hit 70k,now my question is how come some sites are not being pulled up for it and some are unless perish the thought dare i say theres some brown envolopes exchanging hands ?

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

lol I see Bandit make over £100.000 deposit in one video in VS

Yes one wonders how his levels of deposits that he was making on a weekly basis during his reel-king/wild swarm madness were even allowed, without a picture of himself being sent in taking a dump, holding todays newspaper, with his passport at a perfect 90 degree angle whilst displaying his partners wage slip and parents life savings.

I guess to some casinos depositing quarter of a million pound a week is normal. Especially if said player is contributing other poor fuckers who would try an emulate said behaviour.

 

[snorky510238]

Yes one wonders how his levels of deposits that he was making on a weekly basis during his reel-king/wild swarm madness were even allowed, without a picture of himself being sent in taking a dump, holding todays newspaper, with his passport at a perfect 90 degree angle whilst displaying his partners wage slip and parents life savings.

I guess to some casinos depositing quarter of a million pound a week is normal. Especially if said player is contributing other poor fuckers who would try an emulate said behaviour.

Is it his money though?

 

[Schind]

I would love to know what % of customers that are requested SOW, fail to comply and move on, i bet it will increase as time goes on, most people will have nothing to hide but still wont want to give all the info they now seem to be requesting. I think customer numbers are going to plummet at all casinos in the next year.

According to a poll by the Racecourse Media Group based on the Gambling Act Review, 50.7% of punters who are asked for SOW documents refuse to supply them. This is people who bet on sports rather than slot players but there'll be some overlap between the two groups.
The key findings are:-

• 80% of the 3,469 respondents said they would not like to see mandatory limits imposed by bookmakers

• 15% of 3,539 respondents said they bet, or know someone that bets, with an unregulated online bookmaker

• 22% of 3,575 respondents said they have been asked to supply personal information

• 50% (404 respondents) of those asked to supply this information, refused to do so

• 92% of 3,237 respondents said they would consider using a different bookmaker if no personal information was required

The full text is

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.

 

[Reelsoffun]

Thanks for that, its about what i expected 50% dont want to give up this info so if that holds or even increases what are casinos going to do when potentially 50% of there regular customers walk out the door to never return due to SOW ?

My biggest gripe is that no matter how "secure" they say our data is going to be, we "know" that even the biggest companies who can afford the best IT solutions and techies have succumbed to data breaches, so no im not giving them such personal data, and if everyone did the same they would have to look at it in a more unintrusive way surely?

 

[Schind]

It's a tough one to call. I'm no fan of SOW. I haven't been asked for it anywehre myself as I'm just small fry and I wouldn't comply with some of the things these companies ask for anyway but how else do you work out who can afford to gamble £100k+ a year and who can't and is perhaps vulnerable? We have the self reporting tools and setting up deposit limits etc. but how many people that should use them don't?
I'm all for personal responsibility but, unfortunately, some people have issues that means they can't be responsible with their money. See the film 'Marvellous' for the sort of people I'm referring to.
Where the casinos really should be clobbered hard is when someone has self excluded but they're still able to deposit.

I really don't know what the answer is.

 

[Reelsoffun]

Im also wondering what all this Gamprotect trial is going to do as well it looks like its gonna get even worse....


This is just a bit of the GamProtect trial.............

Single Customer View
Single Customer View, Trial 1, is a project to ensure that people who display high-risk behaviours are protected from gambling related harm to their health. To do this Participating Operators that provide online gambling products will take steps to identify customers who they believe should not be gambling and share some key customer information with the GamProtect system. Participating Operators will use GamProtect to identify whether the same customer has an account with them and proceed to close their account to reduce the potential for harm.

This privacy notice explains how Participating Operators in the Single Customer View trial project use your personal data. Please note that from 08/02/2023 for a period of approximately 12 weeks Participating Operators will share customer personal data but not take any action on the data. This is so the Participating Operators can evaluate the effectiveness of the technical solution. You can see which operators are participating in the Single Customer View trial project by going to the Participating Operators section of this notice.

There are 3 key players in this process:

The “Closing Operator”: this is the Participating Operator that closes your account and can be any of the Participating Operators.
“GamProtect”: this is the system that allows for secure data sharing between all operators in a way that ensures privacy. They will receive customer data from the Participating Operators on a daily basis.
The “Receiving Operators”: these are the Participating Operators who receive a match from the data that is shared by the Closing Operator to GamProtect and the Receiving Operator’s own customer database. If the Receiving Operator and the Closing Operator have the same customer, then they will take a similar action to protect their shared customer e.g., closing the customer’s account.
The Receiving Operator will not know the specific reason why the Closing Operator has shared data with them via GamProtect. If your personal data has been shared with GamProtect and you would like to find out why, please contact the Closing Operator. You will receive an email from the Closing Operator informing you that your details will be shared with GamProtect.

How does the Single Customer View trial work?

Risk Identification

Participating Operators will identify a player as at risk of health-related problem gambling if the player indicates that they:

Have a gambling problem or addiction.
Are seeking external support or treatment for gambling problems.
Will harm themselves or someone else.
Should not be gambling because they have a medical condition.
Want to stop gambling forever due to problems with their gambling.
Initial Account Closure

Once a Participating Operator has identified a player as at risk of health-related problem gambling, it will close all of the player’s accounts and exclude the player from all of its gambling services.
It will also inform the player that they will be added to GamProtect due to issues with health-related problem gambling.
Registration

The Participating Operator will add the following Registration Data about the player to GamProtect:

Forename
Surname
Date of Birth
Postcode
Email address
Telephone number
Unique Customer ID set by Participating Operators
Matching

Each Participating Operator will routinely check all their current players’ details against the details of the players previously added to GamProtect by scanning their customer database against the system.
If a player who is playing with one Participating Operator has been previously added to GamProtect by another Participating Operator, GamProtect will provide the Participating Operator carrying out the GamProtect check with the following information about the player (GamProtect Response):
Status as added to GamProtect.
Category of health-related problem gambling risk (see Risk Identification box above).
Name of Participating Operator that added the player to GamProtect.
Further Account Closures

When a Participating Operator is informed by GamProtect that a player has been identified as being at risk of issues with health-related problem gambling, it will close all the player’s accounts with the company.
Initial active Period

A player will remain on GamProtect and subject to the matching process initially for a period of [five years] from the date they were first added by a Participating Operator. This is known as the initialactive period.
During the active period all Participating Operators will exclude the player from their gambling services.
The player cannot remove themselves from GamProtect during the active period.
However, if a player thinks they have been added to GamProtect incorrectly, they can follow the GamProtect redress process explained below.
Further Active Period

At the end of the active period (if the player is not removed from GamProtect by the redress process), the player will remain on GamProtect and subject to the matching process for a further active period.
During this further active period all the Participating Operators will continue to exclude the player from their gambling services.
The player can remove themselves from GamProtect at any time during the further active period by contacting the Participating Operator that has prevented them from accessing gambling services using the contact details below.
However, if the player does not remove themselves from GamProtect, the further active period will continue (and they will remain excluded from all Participating Operators’ gambling services) for a period of 35 years.
Archive Period

Following the end of the further active period (either by request or expiry), the player’s details will be held for an archive period of seven years.
Reidentification of Risk

If during a further active period or archive period a Participating Operator re-identifies a player as at risk of health-related problem gambling, the Participating Operator will re-add the player to GamProtect and the active period will restart.


Categories of personal data to be processed as part of the Single Customer View trial

Personal data

Data types

Source

Information concerning health-related problem gambling that a Participating Operator has identified.

This data is processed by the Participating Operator.

Information provided by the player that indicates that they:
Have a gambling problem or addiction.
Are seeking external support or treatment for gambling problems.
Will harm themselves or someone else.
Should not be gambling because they have a medical condition.
Want to stop gambling forever due to problems with their gambling.
Customer

Registration Data

Forename
Surname
Date of Birth
Postcode
Email address
Telephone number
Unique Customer ID set by Participating Operators
Customer

GamProtect Response

GamProtect Response is the response which provides a Receiving Operator to confirm the Customer has been added.

Status as added to GamProtect
Resulting flag that indicates health-related problem gambling issue for adding to GamProtect
Name of Participating Operator that added the player to GamProtect
Created by GamProtect

Correspondence for the purpose of GamProtect

Any personal data provided by a player in correspondence
Customer

Purpose & Legal Basis for this Initiative

Participating Operators will process customer’s personal data for the primary purpose of identifying customers with health-related issues with problem gambling that are common to any other Participating Operator and attempting to protect extremely vulnerable people from gambling related harm across those common Operators. This involves:

Communicating with a customer to identify a potential harm.
Closing, suspending or restricting the customer’s account.
Sharing customer personal data with GamProtect.
Searching for customers who have been registered on GamProtect.
Evaluating the ongoing effectiveness of the GamProtect solution.
The legal basis for the purpose we have described is the Participating Operator’s legitimate interests in protecting customers from harm. Specifically, these interests are:

To improve intervention for people suffering from health-related problem gambling issues.
To share the identification of players who are suffering health-related problem gambling issues.
To provide greater insight into effective ways of reducing people in the UK from suffering health-related problem gambling issues.
A proportionate approach to the identification of people in the UK from suffering health-related problem gambling issues and protect customers without unduly infringing their rights and freedoms.
Special category personal data is personal data that can reveal health data and other sensitive information about a person. As the scheme is designed to detect and prevent health-related problem gambling the Single Customer View trial data is considered to be special category personal data. Where the processing of customer data involves special category data the legal basis for the Participating Operator’s processing this data is substantial public interests. The substantial public interests are outlined in the UK Data Protection Act 2018 as: safeguarding of children and of individuals at risk.

Recipients of the data

Customer data will be shared with the GamProtect system which is owned and provided by Tutelar Limited. (“TUTELAR”) and its subcontractors The Data Shed Limited and Amazon Web Services. We can be compelled to share information within GamProtect with regulators and law enforcement agencies at their request. Participating Operators will also share the flag indicating a health-related problem gambling issue associated with a customer with other Participating Operators. If a Participating Operator ceases to exist, they will share the specific reasons why a customer’s data has been shared to GamProtect with another Participating Operator.

We will transfer your personal data to GamProtect who will then confirm matches with the other Participating Operators. We have implemented Standard Contractual Clauses with appropriate addendums to protect the personal data during the transfer.



Data Retention for Single Customer View

Categories of Personal Data

Purpose of Processing

Initial Exclusion Retention Period

Residual Exclusion

Retention Period

Archive Period

Total Combined Retention Period

• Forename

• Surname

• Date of Birth

• Postcode

• Email address

• Telephone number

• Unique Customer ID set by Participating Operators

• 1B Flag

• unique Customer ID set by GamProtect

• the time and date at which the request was received

• the date at which the “marker” was set by the Closing Operator (this is enforced by the API definition)

• the “brand” responsible for setting each “marker” as provided by the Closing Operator (this is enforced by the API definition)

• the details of which Closing Operator added the Closed Customer (including system authentication details used and the originating IP address.)

• To improve intervention for people who may have health-related issues with problem gambling.

• To share the identification of players who may have health-related issues with problem gambling.

• To provide greater insight into effective ways of reducing people in the UK from suffering with health-related issues with problem gambling.

• A proportionate approach to the identification of people in the UK who may have health-related issues with problem gambling and protect Customers without unduly infringing their rights and freedoms.

5 years

35 years

7 Years

47 years

Full text is on the attached file

 

[Schind]

And of course, as mentioned in the survey above, all this is going to send people to the unlicensed black market sites which is potentially even worse.

 

[Reelsoffun]

Yeah im fully aware of the risks with going away from UK casinos but as a gambler thats in full control of my spend If i dont have it i dont spend it, I just feel that with the removal of auto play, bonus buys, and countless other things, Im for the first time ever looking at non UK options. very sad really as you dont see all this aimed at drug addicts, smokers, drinkers etc etc

 

[Mr_Slot5]

very sad really as you dont see all this aimed at drug addicts, smokers, drinkers etc etc

I've seen and heard of the devastation that alcohol addiction can cause yet it's widely socially accepted to drink, despite the minority of true problem drinkers. Why isn't gambling treated the same way? Why is it singled out for targeting?

 

[justdoit]

I've seen and heard of the devastation that alcohol addiction can cause yet it's widely socially accepted to drink, despite the minority of true problem drinkers. Why isn't gambling treated the same way? Why is it singled out for targeting?

now when you go to supermarket you need to have letter from doctor you not alcoholic ? is like sow check lol

 

[justdoit]

I would love to know what % of customers that are requested SOW, fail to comply and move on, i bet it will increase as time goes on, most people will have nothing to hide but still wont want to give all the info they now seem to be requesting. I think customer numbers are going to plummet at all casinos in the next year.

Unibet they do credit check if your credit check is bad they close your account, If you ask for large deposit limit they may ask for SOW
Last year I ask to reopen my account they ask me for sow, I only send Bank and earning 3 days later got approved

 

[justdoit]

They have the new Crystal Catcher from Relax on exclusive but is the 94%er. Its a mid-vol version of Fire Hopper, I quite like it but not with those numbers.

Nearly every slot at Unibet is in the mid-range RTP bracket now. How the mighty have fallen so quickly.

94% plus relax charger 12% of your bet for jackpot