Interaction between player, casino and game provider

[deepsky2]

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[deepsky2]

I know many of us that play online may know this but thought it was a good video that easily explains it. Many other videos are available as well.

 

[deepsky2]

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[bamberfishcake]

I like this video and its explanation. I already knew it worked that way but as you say, it is nicely explained.

One question - playing devil's advocate, step 7 and 8, the game provider sends the result and asks the casino to adjust the balance, and the suspicious cynical me wonders if a program or script or similar could be written or programmed into a casinos server to intercept big wins and cause a cashier error with a casino at this stage?

I have often been cynical with partner cashier errors on unreliable sites and simply avoid them after having a few. There are some sites that do this fairly often.

It's just the video suggests that it's not possible for the casino to cheat the player but as part of the process relies on the casino server to agree and confirm results with the game provider, is it not possible for mega wins to be written off with a cashier error?

Not saying this is the case, the casinos I play at are more than comfortable with the way the system works and pay. Just food for thought maybe and wondering if anyone in the know could comment.

 

[jasonuk]

It's just the video suggests that it's not possible for the casino to cheat the player but as part of the process relies on the casino server to agree and confirm results with the game provider, is it not possible for mega wins to be written off with a cashier error?

I can think of two scenarios here:

• the cashier returns an error in step 9, in which case when the player reconnects the game provider jumps from step 3 to step 8 to resolve the game round.
• the cashier wrongly confirms the game round in step 9, in which case there's a "phantom win" - the player will still see the win, but it's not credited to the balance.

For clarity, the video is suggesting the casino can't cheat the game result, which is fully under the control of the game provider. The game provider tells both you and the casino what the result was - but it is the responsibility of the casino to reconcile the result with your balance. This is a similar scenario to where the game providers get into murky waters with the fake streamers, because they confirm it's a legitimate game round (because it is) but it clearly isn't a legitimate win.

I would add one important caveat to this, and that is that the game round must not be regenerated. I recall Rocknrolla had a bizarre technical failure on Extra Chilli last year where the bonus failed to complete due to a cashier error, but then rolled back the entire bonus round and played out a different bonus round.

In that scenario, where the casino can influence the RNG, all bets are off... in the case of BTG it was an honest error and they rectified it, but it's also how nefarious casinos can have a "certified RNG" with a bent game - because they can choose which game rounds (or RNG calls) to accept or reject.

 

[bamberfishcake]

I can think of two scenarios here:

• the cashier returns an error in step 9, in which case when the player reconnects the game provider jumps from step 3 to step 8 to resolve the game round.
• the cashier wrongly confirms the game round in step 9, in which case there's a "phantom win" - the player will still see the win, but it's not credited to the balance.

For clarity, the video is suggesting the casino can't cheat the game result, which is fully under the control of the game provider. The game provider tells both you and the casino what the result was - but it is the responsibility of the casino to reconcile the result with your balance. This is a similar scenario to where the game providers get into murky waters with the fake streamers, because they confirm it's a legitimate game round (because it is) but it clearly isn't a legitimate win.

I would add one important caveat to this, and that is that the game round must not be regenerated. I recall Rocknrolla had a bizarre technical failure on Extra Chilli last year where the bonus failed to complete due to a cashier error, but then rolled back the entire bonus round and played out a different bonus round.

In that scenario, where the casino can influence the RNG, all bets are off... in the case of BTG it was an honest error and they rectified it, but it's also how nefarious casinos can have a "certified RNG" with a bent game - because they can choose which game rounds (or RNG calls) to accept or reject.

How about if the Cashier error is presented before the reels stop spinning?

The player would be none the wiser as no win has been displayed - the reels have not come to rest.

I was under the impression that steps 8 and 9 are part of the process before the reels display the win.

If I've had a Cashier error, it's always been at the start of a spin, before reels land and any win is presented.

Thank you for entertaining my suspicious mind

 

[jasonuk]

The player would be none the wiser as no win has been displayed - the reels have not come to rest.

They would be aware that something is wrong, but not necessarily which:

• The casino declines the bet, in which case nothing happened.
• The game provider had a fault, in which case their internal systems should roll back the transaction as if nothing happened and tell the casino to return the bet.
• The casino didn't acknowledge the result in time, in which case the game provider would have a pending game round (if this resolves automatically, the client can be notified when they reconnect).
• The client didn't see the result (disconnected, or timed out), in which case the game provider can provide a "you missed this" notification on reconnection, and the casino provides the result in the cashier.

The key is that once the game round has happened - it can't be regenerated or substituted.

I remember one such scenario a few years back where I got a rather cryptic error message from the game - what had happened is while quickspinning on autoplay, I'd managed to trigger a race condition where the client had two spins on the go at once, the cashier accepted them (because it doesn't need to check) and then the game provider went ?and bombed out the game. The first spin resolved successfully, the second was rejected because the client wasn't permitted to do it. The game resolved itself in a few seconds so thankfully didn't involve a trip to customer support!

 

[bamberfishcake]

They would be aware that something is wrong, but not necessarily which:

• The casino declines the bet, in which case nothing happened.
• The game provider had a fault, in which case their internal systems should roll back the transaction as if nothing happened and tell the casino to return the bet.
• The casino didn't acknowledge the result in time, in which case the game provider would have a pending game round (if this resolves automatically, the client can be notified when they reconnect).
• The client didn't see the result (disconnected, or timed out), in which case the game provider can provide a "you missed this" notification on reconnection, and the casino provides the result in the cashier.

The key is that once the game round has happened - it can't be regenerated or substituted.

I remember one such scenario a few years back where I got a rather cryptic error message from the game - what had happened is while quickspinning on autoplay, I'd managed to trigger a race condition where the client had two spins on the go at once, the cashier accepted them (because it doesn't need to check) and then the game provider went ?and bombed out the game. The first spin resolved successfully, the second was rejected because the client wasn't permitted to do it. The game resolved itself in a few seconds so thankfully didn't involve a trip to customer support!

Thank you for taking the time to reply, much appreciated!