INETBET are u serious?????

[tat00]

i just cashed out 400 dollars at INETBET then i received this email.




We have today processed your withdrawal request.


It is with regret that I have to inform you that our accounts department have flagged your account.

You have recently continually availed of bonuses that we offer to reward our regular players, but you do not play unless it is bonus advantage play.

I must therefore confirm that unless we see a change in your pattern of play i.e. bonus free playing, we will be denying any future bonuses that you try to redeem on your account.

This is not an action that we would take lightly, however continual misuse of the bonus program seriously affects our ability to reward our regular players.

Once in place this is not permanent, should we see some sustained non bonus play then this restriction can be lifted.

Kind regards

CSR Lynn

Accounts Dept.

iNetBet Casino



so why do u offer me these bonuses in the first place i only play bonuses at over 10 casinos . and how am i abusing the bonuses when i rarely cash out at your casino i have also lost many times and i dont remember you giving me a notice then. hmmm it seems when people win there is an issue?

and whats funny is that INETBET has to be the worst bonus offers out there - making only certain slots to make the playthrough with.

DONT WORRY INETBET I HAVE UNINSTALLED YOUR CASINO AND U WONT BE SEEING anymore of my so called bonus deposits. WHAT A JOKE !!!

 

[chuchu59]

Retaliate and I urge the same who have lost regularly at this casino and received a similar message. State that you are unhappy with your losses and flagged this casino as 'untouchable' unless and until they offer you bigger and better bonuses. Please also remind them that this is not a decision you had taken lightly but it was unavoidable due to your string of losses and frustration.

Just tit for tat imo.

 

[iNetBet Promos]

Hi tat00,

I really fail to see what the issue is here.

All we did was send you an email stating that your account had been flagged. We have not denied any winning/withdrawals. We have not excluded you from claiming bonuses. We simply stated that we would like to see some play without bonuses too.

In regards to our bonuses - not all slot bonuses are game specific. Yes we do have some structured like this - some of the lobby slot specials. However these are not compulsory and it is up to the player is they want to use these. If you don't want to play only specific slots then do not use these codes..

These particular offers were added to give a bit of variety. They have proven to be quite popular with members. As there are now a wide range of slots on offer we have seen that, when using these offers, members play some games they might not have done so previously.

Regards
iNetBet Promos

 

[The Dude]

Just to jump in real quick like

What is the big deal with bonuses? When you take bonuses you are at the mercy of meeting the wagering requirements, sometimes some games are excluded, and of course some bonuses have caps for winnings. I would be begging NOT to be given bonuses.

Actually, they are doing you a favor when they ask whether or not you'd consider player without a bonus.

 

[chuchu59]

The best bonus from Inet is 100% cashable bonus on slots with 20x (D+B) playthrough. With the relevation that most slots are set at 95% RTP the casino has a huge advantage in that the player's balance should reach exactly $0 after meeting WRs. So how does that make it bonus advantage play. Bonus play yes but advantage play nope.

The email from Inet implies that Tatoo is a bonus absuser but if he is playing strictly by the book and taking bonuses offered to him in the newsletter and the website why is he being labelled as such? It must be remembered that Inetbet promotes their bonuses on several fronts so it does sound wierd that they feel it is an offence to profit from them. Frankly, if the RTP stays true to 95% in the long run they should encourage people to play with bonuses. After all, they are not free chips and hefty WRs have to be met.

 

[skiny]

If you only want players to take bonuses 2 out of 3 times then state that. Don't wait until the player wins and then insult him by stating that his account has been "Flagged." This implies that the player is doing something wrong.

Unless this player has been playing outside the casino guidelines he should be congratulated when he finally manages to win, not insulted.

 

[Simmo!]

The other option would have been just to have stopped sending Tat00 bonus offers without any explanation. So I guess the question is: is it better to forewarn the player, or just stop sending them?

 

[roygen]

i just cashed out 400 dollars at INETBET then i received this email.




We have today processed your withdrawal request.


It is with regret that I have to inform you that our accounts department have flagged your account.

You have recently continually availed of bonuses that we offer to reward our regular players, but you do not play unless it is bonus advantage play.

I must therefore confirm that unless we see a change in your pattern of play i.e. bonus free playing, we will be denying any future bonuses that you try to redeem on your account.

This is not an action that we would take lightly, however continual misuse of the bonus program seriously affects our ability to reward our regular players.

Once in place this is not permanent, should we see some sustained non bonus play then this restriction can be lifted.

Kind regards

CSR Lynn

Accounts Dept.

iNetBet Casino



so why do u offer me these bonuses in the first place i only play bonuses at over 10 casinos . and how am i abusing the bonuses when i rarely cash out at your casino i have also lost many times and i dont remember you giving me a notice then. hmmm it seems when people win there is an issue?

and whats funny is that INETBET has to be the worst bonus offers out there - making only certain slots to make the playthrough with.

DONT WORRY INETBET I HAVE UNINSTALLED YOUR CASINO AND U WONT BE SEEING anymore of my so called bonus deposits. WHAT A JOKE !!!

At least you got a warning !!! I had to jump through hoops to find out why I could not claim a bonus through the software.

Then to find out I through a bunch of rude emails that I was a BONUS ABUSER.

Funnily enough I was banned from Bonuses immediately after my first and only withdrawal.

Thats OK - Uninstalled Unibet and continue to lose money at other Casinos LOL.

Its strange though they keep shoving these bonuses under your nose and then Flag you as a bonus abuser when you manage to cash out from one - even though they are hugely in profit from you.

 

[3Dice]

The best bonus from Inet is 100% cashable bonus on slots with 20x (D+B) playthrough. With the relevation that most slots are set at 95% RTP the casino has a huge advantage in that the player's balance should reach exactly $0 after meeting WRs. So how does that make it bonus advantage play. Bonus play yes but advantage play nope.

Hi Chuchu,

That is incorrect. A 20x(D+B) bonus on slots without maxcashout and 100% cashable is very much so +EV. It would be tremendously easy to keep 5% of ones total stake under the total bonus received, therefor the player that plays only with bonuses like that is guaranteed to make a profit on the long term.

From the casino's point of view, no intermediary bonus-free deposits on an account with that profile is advantage play. (not saying this is the motivation of the player - advantage play only describes the play behavior).
The bottom line is that this behavior is no risk for the player - sure he'll lose a couple of deposits before he hits but when he does it'll make up for all previous sessions and more.

As a casino there is a moral obligation to try and make sure that the bonus budget available is spent in the right place. That would be the players that support the casino. In this particular case, I feel the casino is doing the right thing - it is letting the player know why he will no longer receive bonuses. They have honored all their commitments and payed the player - they just prefer to spend their bonus budget on players that actually support the casino.

If you've ever made a bonus-free deposit at a casino - then this decision is one in your advantage.

It also makes perfect sense that the casino is only capable of making this assessment after the player wins. Until the point that he cashed out they had no way of predicting how much he would play. If the player had played for a week before cashing out - the situation might have been totally different. (as the player would've staked much more). In that scenario the casino might feel it perfectly plausible to continue to offer these bonuses as then they serve the purpose that bonuses originally were intended for .. providing extended playtime.

Just my 2c.

Enzo

 

[silcnlayc]

iNetBet Promos: You have recently continually availed of bonuses that we offer to reward our regular players, but you do not play unless it is bonus advantage play.

This is not the first time I have seen this decision. Somewhere in this forum was another thread that some had this sent to them by OTHER casinos. So, Inetbet is really not the only one.

Common sense will tell you if you take a bonus each and every time and continually win and withdraw...you will be cut off. No casino can afford this. At least they offered you bonuses , but a little light should have gone off saying , maybe this time I will try without one (every once in a while) knowing if you continue taking them you KNOW you will be cut off. I am on the other end of the spectrum....no bonuses and losses up the kazoo without a cashout in sight....

So...who is right here? No one..If one wanted to stop the bonus use , then they should not have allowed a bonus to be taken...lock down the bonus button for a few non bonus deposits..don't lock down the bonuses bompletely. Maybe a notice in the bonus saying if you have taken one previously then you must deposit without a bonus or some such thing I remember seeing in some of these casinos..no back to back bonuses allowed (something like that) would benefit both sides I would think.

On the ohter hand, you (the player) should have known this was coming...anyone would...keeping under the radar to continue getting bonuses is a must...

So, the casino is in the right here IMO since it is their option to offer something free and take it away too. No one is OWED a bonus (another thread around here somewhere)

Suck it up and accept it for what it is worth...you have continually won and withdrawn...now, you got to do it on your own dime...

.

 

[WonderingSpirit]

Hi Chuchu,

That is incorrect. A 20x(D+B) bonus on slots without maxcashout and 100% cashable is very much so +EV. It would be tremendously easy to keep 5% of ones total stake under the total bonus received, therefor the player that plays only with bonuses like that is guaranteed to make a profit on the long term.



Enzo

We are talking about RTG?


I have taken bonus after bonus. Probably 200 deposits with 0 wins. I dont believe for a second that a 100% bonus is advantage player on an RTG slot. I came close once or twice where I was in plus, but when WR was met I was back to 0

 

[roygen]

they just prefer to spend their bonus budget on players that actually support the casino.

Enzo

I played there for a while and they were in profit from me, but was still bonus banned, so i am not sure how you consider that not supporting the casino

Anyhow, I am sorry but as a player I am not gambling to SUPPORT any casino, I am there to try and win, the odds are ALWAYS with the casino and they are running the casino to make a profit.

I will SUPPORT my family, local charities etc NOT casinos.
.
They offer the bonuses to entice you to deposit.


The gripe I have with these guys is;

The Bonuses are offered via email or on the website for you to take.

You take the Bonus and lose - Thats all okay you can take another Bonus.

You take the Bonus and win - Thats not OK

MY MAIN GRIPE - Because you win they BRAND you as a Bonus Abuser.( Even though they are over all in profit from your deposits)

NOWHERE on the website or terms is it stated that you can only take X amount of Bonuses and after that you have to deposit without one.

Nobody likes to be Branded as any sort of ABUSER if they are innocent.

My experience over this Bonus Abuse BS was less than pleasurable having to talk with the rude and sharp tongued CS staff.

 

[Marie2473]

I do use bonuses, however not all the time. Most times i use them to extend my playtime since I usually otherwise bus out to soon =)
However It is HARD to reach playthrough and most of the times you will not be able to cashout - atleast not me =)
I do however like that bonuses are offered, and I do belive that a wagering of 20 times is not the worst one out there, more one of the best ...

 

[chuchu59]

Hi Chuchu,

That is incorrect. A 20x(D+B) bonus on slots without maxcashout and 100% cashable is very much so +EV. It would be tremendously easy to keep 5% of ones total stake under the total bonus received, therefor the player that plays only with bonuses like that is guaranteed to make a profit on the long term.

From the casino's point of view, no intermediary bonus-free deposits on an account with that profile is advantage play. (not saying this is the motivation of the player - advantage play only describes the play behavior).
The bottom line is that this behavior is no risk for the player - sure he'll lose a couple of deposits before he hits but when he does it'll make up for all previous sessions and more.

As a casino there is a moral obligation to try and make sure that the bonus budget available is spent in the right place. That would be the players that support the casino. In this particular case, I feel the casino is doing the right thing - it is letting the player know why he will no longer receive bonuses. They have honored all their commitments and payed the player - they just prefer to spend their bonus budget on players that actually support the casino.

If you've ever made a bonus-free deposit at a casino - then this decision is one in your advantage.

It also makes perfect sense that the casino is only capable of making this assessment after the player wins. Until the point that he cashed out they had no way of predicting how much he would play. If the player had played for a week before cashing out - the situation might have been totally different. (as the player would've staked much more). In that scenario the casino might feel it perfectly plausible to continue to offer these bonuses as then they serve the purpose that bonuses originally were intended for .. providing extended playtime.

Just my 2c.

Enzo

Hi Enzo,

You mentioned the no max cashout term and I believe this is why you state this kind of bonus would be +EV. Strictly on calculations an RTP of 95% would finish off the D + 100% bonus on meeting 20x WRs. Of course, for any individual player the results wont be like that but that's the way it is on average.

Many players take bonuses for extended playtime and this is why there are many tournies at 3 Dice ie extension of extended playtime and you have been very successful in that aspect.

I must stress, however, that Tatoo is not only complaining about the withdrawal of bonuses. It's the attitude from Inet that is annoying. The bonuses were offered thru a variety of channels to him and he only took them as he saw fit. These are all general offers and one would not expect to be penalised for taking them up. If Inetbet believes that the bonuses can be abused, offer less and send their valued players the better bonuses instead.

I have no problem with the timing of the warning as it as any casino will only review the play when there is a cashout and will greedily let them lose their shirt as long as the money is still in the casino.

I dont think you would have sent a similar email to players whom you dont want to offer future bonuses to. Even if you did it would have been more palatable given your grace and diplomacy

 

[vinylweatherman]

It's rubbish that the casino can ONLY make the assessment of the pattern of PLAY after the player WINS. The pattern can easily be assessed after a number of deposits, whatever the result.

Enzo is correct about 100% @ 20x WR is long term +EV if played "correctly" by the player.

If a player ONLY takes up the 100% offers, but ignores all the other offers which offer less in the way of +EV, then a pattern of "advantage play" can be discerned after a few deposits.

HOWEVER, casinos could do this without the need to be RUDE about it. The problem is that the player finds himself CRIMINALISED by the casino during the process of being bonus banned, as though it is the same as being banned for FRAUD. The casino also takes the same approach in refusing to tell the player what he did to warrant the action, all they will say is something generic such as "your account has been flagged", which is the SAME language that is used when telling a player they are suspected of FRAUD.

It would be simple to REQUIRE players to deposit in between 100% bonuses in the terms, and there would be no confusion. They could also make it a requirement to take some of the -EV offers before another 100% +EV bonus can be taken. This can be controlled by not offering further +EV bonuses to the player until they have taken up a couple of -EV offers.

There would be no need to send the player such an email, the offers simply would not appear in the lobby, but the lesser ones WOULD. The player could be told that they had to take a couple of the lesser offers before their lobby offers got "refreshed".

 

[3Dice]

I played there for a while and they were in profit from me, but was still bonus banned, so i am not sure how you consider that not supporting the casino

Hi Roygen, it is a bit naive to think that what you lose is won by the casino. For every $1 you stake - the casino makes approx $0.05 (before costs like transactions, staff, servers etc). If you lose $100 on blackjack in one bet, a casino only makes about +- 0.5$ on that .. the rest is won .. by other players or even by yourself on a future or past deposit.

Anyhow, I am sorry but as a player I am not gambling to SUPPORT any casino, I am there to try and win, the odds are ALWAYS with the casino and they are running the casino to make a profit.

Well unfortunately, bonuses are not offered to help you 'get more wins cashed out' .. they are offered to help you have more fun. This business is entertainment .. and yes casinos do charge to offer that entertainment. Just like your local movie theater, or bar.

I will SUPPORT my family, local charities etc NOT casinos.
.
They offer the bonuses to entice you to deposit.

The gripe I have with these guys is;

The Bonuses are offered via email or on the website for you to take.

You take the Bonus and lose - Thats all okay you can take another Bonus.

You take the Bonus and win - Thats not OK

Ah, but if you lose, lady luck did not give you the opportunity to enjoy the entertainment. It's when you win that you confess colors .. are you taking these bonuses to maximize your entertainment - or are you taking them merely to try and cashout.

MY MAIN GRIPE - Because you win they BRAND you as a Bonus Abuser.( Even though they are over all in profit from your deposits)

As mentioned before .. depositing does not make you a loyal customer - playing does. It's not because you won - its because you finally got the opportunity to play - and enjoy the extra entertainment value those bonuses were for - and instead - you withdrew after very little play.

NOWHERE on the website or terms is it stated that you can only take X amount of Bonuses and after that you have to deposit without one.

Nobody likes to be Branded as any sort of ABUSER if they are innocent.[/B]

Nobody is questioning your motives - I believe you 100% if you say you were not doing this intentional - but still if there is no or little difference between your play profile and that of someone who would be doing it intentional and calculated .. then that profile itself can only be labeled abusive.

My experience over this Bonus Abuse BS was less than pleasurable having to talk with the rude and sharp tongued CS staff.

I'll agree with you that there are probably at least a dozen of different ways to bring the message that would all have been more pleasurable to you. I personally am no fan of the everything or nothing scenario, I'll elaborate below in my response to chuchu.

Hi Enzo,

You mentioned the no max cashout term and I believe this is why you state this kind of bonus would be +EV. Strictly on calculations an RTP of 95% would finish off the D + 100% bonus on meeting 20x WRs. Of course, for any individual player the results wont be like that but that's the way it is on average.

The formula you are using only applies to post-wager bonuses. (refer the EV of sequence of bonuses thread). The bonus described in this thread is player +EV.

Many players take bonuses for extended playtime and this is why there are many tournies at 3 Dice ie extension of extended playtime and you have been very successful in that aspect.

Absolutely - tourneys can guarantee entertainment in a way bonuses never will be able to. We do apply a mix of both.

I must stress, however, that Tatoo is not only complaining about the withdrawal of bonuses. It's the attitude from Inet that is annoying. The bonuses were offered thru a variety of channels to him and he only took them as he saw fit. These are all general offers and one would not expect to be penalised for taking them up. If Inetbet believes that the bonuses can be abused, offer less and send their valued players the better bonuses instead.

Absolutely. The 3Dice system works different there .. the bonuses offered depend on the VIP level of the player which depends on the total comp points earned. Comp points are not earned on the part of your balance that is bonus (so if you take a 100% bonus you get comppoints at half the rate since half of your balance came from your funds). This system automatically and completely eliminates all bonus abuse. A player that plays only the bonuses offered will therefor drop in loyalty level and get smaller and smaller bonuses until eventually he reaches a member status and no further offers are sent.

This is an ease-in ease-out system that gives our players the tools needed to be aware of their account status, and it allows them to enjoy the promotions offered by 3Dice in any way they like.

I have no problem with the timing of the warning as it as any casino will only review the play when there is a cashout and will greedily let them lose their shirt as long as the money is still in the casino.

Again, until the player has some luck - there is no way for the casino to tell whether or not he is enjoying the value of the bonus as entertainment or looking at it purely to make that cashout.

Kindest regards,

Enzo

 

[roygen]

Hi Roygen, it is a bit naive to think that what you lose is won by the casino. For every $1 you stake - the casino makes approx $0.05 (before costs like transactions, staff, servers etc). If you lose $100 on blackjack in one bet, a casino only makes about +- 0.5$ on that .. the rest is won .. by other players or even by yourself on a future or past deposit.

Not naive at all - If I deposit $1000 and only cashout $200, then the casino has made a profit from me of $800 - as simple as that.

 

[love2winalot]

Hiya: As a former Bonus bagger, I will chime in. I used to take every bonus in the book. I kept a Balance in my Neteller acct: just for this purpose. Back then, you could play Roulette, and as long as you did not do things like, "Bet red/black", at the same time, you were fine.

Here is what happened, and I will asume, a lot of players would do the same thing. I get a E mail, saying i can keep playing, but can no longer take a bonus. Fine. I click on Casino icon, and hit Ctrl/Alt/Delete......

I download one of the other Casino's that offer Bonus. "One of the several Hundred casino's to choose from". and i repeat the procedure. If a Player will NOT deposit without a Bonus, and the Casino takes the bonus away, "even for a limited time", from that player, it usually means they just Lost that Player, and he will go someplace else.

So, what is the Casino to do? How can they keep a Player, and limit what bonus offers he will get, at the same time? I do not think it is possible. We will start seeing post like:

"The jerk Ass casino won't give me my Bonus"?
"I have to Deposit bonus free, to get a bonus next time, WTF"?
and so on............................

imhop, To many players are treating deposit bonus like a drug. They have become addicted, and playing without a bonus is out of the question. It is a hard habbit to break, but speaking from expierience, it is so well worth breaking. Just playing with, "Only" your own money Is so much different, and better. It is hard to see it, as you have less to play with, and you lose it faster. But then, one day, You get a good little Win, and you are trying to guess how much play thru you still need to do to claim your winnings..............................."Oh Yeah, I can cash out any time i want, and play any game i want, AND THERE IS NOTHING THE CASINO CAN DO ABOUT IT" ah hahahahahaha....

 

[roygen]

Well unfortunately, bonuses are not offered to help you 'get more wins cashed out' .. they are offered to help you have more fun. This business is entertainment .. and yes casinos do charge to offer that entertainment. Just like your local movie theater, or bar.

Wrong Sir- Bonuses are offered purely to entice you to deposit at the Casino. If there was only one Casino in the world for players to gamble- I can assure you that NO bonuses of any sort would be offered to any player.

Casinos are there to make a profit, if they were not then why do they not just have fun play and charge for the entertainment

Players play to win money and the excitement of hitting something big or they too would only gamble with Fun Money.

 

[roygen]

Ah, but if you lose, lady luck did not give you the opportunity to enjoy the entertainment. It's when you win that you confess colors .. are you taking these bonuses to maximize your entertainment - or are you taking them merely to try and cashout.

Ah, BOTH

I take them for extra playtime.

Little bit Naive to think that players do not want to cashout but never the less -As we all know when you take a bonus the chances of cashing out is far less than cashing out without a bonus.But I still try to cashout ( probably only a 10% succes rate.

In fact a rarely take a bonus now and am having a better success rate at cashing out.

Just a note - If I cashout at a Casino and its Hassle free, I ALWAYS redeposit and always end up playing back my winnings LOL, I actually cashed out about $4000 last month from a $100 deposit at 32Red, and apart from paying for a family/friends night out in a hotel with my Neteller card, I played it all back.

The moral of this note is " most players will gamble back all there winnings unless they actually hit a major Jackpot"

So it makes sense to me for Casinos to treat there players with respect and not mess them around and they will probably stick with you !!

 

[roygen]

As mentioned before .. depositing does not make you a loyal customer - playing does. It's not because you won - its because you finally got the opportunity to play - and enjoy the extra entertainment value those bonuses were for - and instead - you withdrew after very little play.

Ok all players - on that one I suggest that nobody deposits any more, and we all just play in fun mode after all No player wants to WIN anything , We have to play for enertainment value only

I will say again BONUSES are offered to entice players to DEPOSIT MONEY.

 

[roygen]

Nobody is questioning your motives - I believe you 100% if you say you were not doing this intentional - but still if there is no or little difference between your play profile and that of someone who would be doing it intentional and calculated .. then that profile itself can only be labeled abusive.

LABELED ABUSIVE ???

I took the bonuses as they were OFFERED on the website and sent to me via email.

If they were not offered I would not of taken them LOL

If I am going to be labeled :

For your information-
I support many local charities,
I volunteer at many charitable functions,
I support an overseas family
I am an engineer
I have a big heart and am known to be a very generous human being.
I have never abused anything in my life

I could go on and on .......

Before anyone labels ANYONE as being an abuser of any sort they need to really get the facts right. In the real world a deformation of character is unlawful.

 

[roygen]

I'll agree with you that there are probably at least a dozen of different ways to bring the message that would all have been more pleasurable to you. I personally am no fan of the everything or nothing scenario, I'll elaborate below in my response to chuchu.

I detect a little sarcasm here Enzo But I was not looking for email reply's to be more PLEASURABLE - I would have just appreciated a more professional approach from Inetbet CS staff about this.

To be honest, I do not give a damn about not being able to claim a bonus, it was the labeling as an ABUSER that hit a nerve, and if they had informed me in a professional manner. Then I would maybe still be a depositing player(or should I say SUPPORTER) at Inetbet.

 

[Rusty]

Some comments here really do seem to show that players are viewed only as cashcows by Casinos and should they be fortunate enough on occasion to win a fraction of their money back it would me rude of them not to give the casino that money back playing at the worse possible odds.

It is kind of laughable when bonuses are described as there to extend playtime only - God forbid players should actually win and cashout - what a nerve!

On the other hand I have little time for advantage players (though I would not term them bonus abusers since it is the Casinos that make the T&C's for these bonuses)
They just make life much more difficult for the rest of us with higher WR's and lists of T&C's that go on forever but their motives are no different from the Casinos - profit.

Inetbet are perfectly within their rights of course to refuse bonuses but talk about foot in mouth.
Who wouldn't be insulted by that email?
Only a true advantage player I guess, so way to go on ensuring you only insult and alienate your genuine players Inet.

 

[bryand]

First roygen, please familiarize yourself in mutiquote responses. It is not necessary to reply 3 different times to one post.

Second, I don't believe Enzo was trying to be sarcastic in his comment to you. Take his comments at face value and quit trying to over-analyze. It may help you to research who you are arguing with.

 

[hitobito2005]

I'm pretty sure that most people who play at casinos would like to win.

The reason why slots are so popular, apart from being easy to play, is that they offer the chance of big wins.

 

[winbig]

Typical response, given the source.

You have recently continually availed of bonuses that we offer to reward our regular players, but you do not play unless it is bonus advantage play.

So regular (loyal) players can't take a bonus on every deposit? Basically you're saying that only regular players can be those that don't take a bonus. Which is quite wrong, and a dumb way to look at it. What about the players that deposit $100 4 or 5 days a week, but rarely cash out? Are those players just bonus abusers, too?

And why are casinos so short sighted when it comes to bonus banning players cashing out on a bonus? So what if a player only plays with a bonus, but yet they only cash out every 10-20 deposits? How is that advantage play?

And why doesn't this situation even come into the play until a player decides to finally cash out for a change? Even if they're still in the red, overall?

 

[roygen]

First roygen, please familiarize yourself in mutiquote responses. It is not necessary to reply 3 different times to one post.

Second, I don't believe Enzo was trying to be sarcastic in his comment to you. Take his comments at face value and quit trying to over-analyze. It may help you to research who you are arguing with.

Not arguing bryand- just replying and stating facts as I see them.

Will take your advice on Multi Quotes - just that I am in the middle of something and and replying a bit at a time-apologies

 

[Mavin1]

If a casino is going to have such problems with their bonuses they put out there, then stop putting them out.

The average player, especially since these last few years, have found that they no longer get value for the money unless they take the risk of using a bonus that obligates their deposit to the casino.

I'm sure there are many long time players here on just this forum alone, that remember the day when you could play on your deposit for days, not minutes, days, with no bonus.

By the sheer frustration of that not happening anymore, casinos have forced many players to use the bonuses they keep spewing out to keep the players coming back to their mostly fruitless games.

If casinos, stopped offering bonuses, but keep the return the way it is now, casinos player base would greatly diminish or they would be out of business in a short time.

So the average everyday player, looking for the chance to make a winning cashout, will always take the casinos up on their best offers time and time again. If a player sees 100% bonus or a 10% bonus, seriously what do you think a player would take first!

The casinos create these offers to enhance play, as they state, but why do you have to enhance a players time at the casino in the first place. If things were as they used to be, the added feature of bonuses to enhance a players time would not be neccessary.

Casinos need to understand the player wants the biggest bonuses they can utilize, yet casinos want to slap your hand for taking them.

This is one of the reasons why rogue casinos are still in business, they give such monumental bonuses that players always are attracted to them. Thus telling any casino that a player that uses bonuses for the most part want the biggest ones, because it gives them a bigger starting balance, so they can either make bigger wagers or last longer on their smaller wagers.

Sticking to non rogue casinos and using small bonuses or no bonuses and the player will have invested a great deal to see a return that justifies their constant deposits, unless they are struck by dumb luck, which the majority are not.

I guess what I am saying is if casinos don't want players using the best bonuses all the time, then instead of spanking the player for using them, just stop putting them out there.

 

[butterflyboogie]

My Comments

Hi Guys,

I have read this whole thread and now I'm going to put my 2 cents in here too. First of all, I like to take bonuses from time to time too because for one it allows me to play longer (entertainment), and then again in the back of my mind I am hoping with the greater amount that perhaps I might be able to cash out in the long run (only to deposit it back to play some more). Of course Bryan I can understand what you say about not taking a bonus because with the WR requirements bonuses can be a nightmare. At 3Dice when I first saw the bonuses (and never got any others from email), I didn't know if I would like that, however with less WR requirements it makes better sense to me. Then, after that I just deposit without a bonus and when I cash out, there is no worry about...did I make WR requirements, did I play certain games I wasn't suppose to...oh no...I can't play a progressive. I do like the aspect that without a bonus I can play what I want, when I want and how I want, and if I am fortunate enough to cash out then good for me!

Now on iNetbet, I do have a problem with your tactics. Your casino sends out emails regarding bonuses, on your newsletter you have certain codes promoting bonus play (including freebies). Also, across the casino log in screen at the bottom there are icon regarding bonuses (including one that goes across the bottom...moving). If you don't want that much bonus codes used, then stop promoting them so much. Now I know you will say that this is for new players, etc, however, when you believe that a person has used enough bonuses for just say...the month...then block bonus for the rest of the month. Take a look at 3Dice and see how they are doing it, and this should solve your problem, the client (player) will know what to expect as far as bonuses, and instead of driving customers away, you have laid your cards on the table...so to speak, and then he or she can "choose" to play at your casino without the bonuses. What I am saying...don't offer a kid a cookie and then scold him for eating the cookie!!

As far as I am concerned, I like bonuses, however I like the "play" much more. When I cash out with a casino, that casino does not have to worry about me taking the money and running, I am loyal! And, I would bet that most of the players feel the same way that I do.

 

[just play]

It may help you to research who you are arguing with.

So before someone posts they should research first? You lost me.

 

[tat00]

What i really dont understand is Why Say this after i win??? at no point in time did i receive an email that this was an issue. also INETBET REP i never said i did not get paid in fact i got paid fast and respectfully (i am happy about this) but i am a bonus player i only play bonuses for one reason - to play longer and better entertainment . and i dont understand thi scrap about intending for new players only - weather they use the code or someone else uses code if its out there to use why complain about it after someone wins .

infact i think i only cashed out ever at your casino 2 or 3 times only after how many depsits do u think its fair to say u are no longer able to play with bonuses. so i compare you to other CASINOS out there such as CHERRY -LOCK-CLUB WORLS ETC... i use bonus GALORE at these places infact play there 5 times more than INETBET never once i had issue about a BONUS problem. so for so few cashout at inetbet i am flagged? if your casino cannot take the winnings then u should not be in bussiness. THIS IS WHY I UNINSTALLED YOUR CASINO

LOL come to think of it I REALLY FLAGGED you for being a weird CASINO

 

[roygen]

So before someone posts they should research first? You lost me.

Lost me too -Possibly it was perceived that my replies to Enzo's posts were argumentitive. Not clear about the research part ? thought it was pretty clear that I was talking to Enzo !!!

 

[takethemoney]

Just to jump in real quick like

What is the big deal with bonuses? When you take bonuses you are at the mercy of meeting the wagering requirements, sometimes some games are excluded, and of course some bonuses have caps for winnings. I would be begging NOT to be given bonuses.

Actually, they are doing you a favor when they ask whether or not you'd consider player without a bonus.

The problem is, the RTG casinos have gotten so tight for the most part that most players need a decent bonus just to get some play. If I go deposit $100 of my own money, sans bonus, in most cases my gaming is gonna be over within an hour. When I can find a good 100-150% bonus, I might get to play for a few hours. 3 years ago I could deposit $100 and play for several hours, if not a couple days.

 

[skiny]

Any casino that claims these bonus offers are created and sent to us for our sheer enjoyment must really think we, as players are a pretty gullible lot.

Casinos are in constant competition and create these bonuses to attract our business. It's no different than the half dozen flyers I receive every weekend from all the local grocery stores. I suppose I'm supposed to believe these stores are putting all of these sales out because they truly think I'm paying too much for my groceries and want me to pay less. If that was the case they'd just lower all the prices. They want me to see something on sale that I want and they want me in their store. And the casinos want me to see a bonus I like and they want me at their casino. They all email me offers almost on a daily basis. Most of these casinos I've unsubscribed to a long time ago but they refuse to stop sending me these offers. They are not sending them because they think I'll enjoy myself more with an offer from a casino that I don't even have an account at. Every single bonus offer sent to me is for the sole purpose of getting me back into that casino and when it finally backfires and someone manages to win something that's when the casino steps back and says "Oops. No more bonuses for you."

My only advice for any player who gets to read that inevitable "No more bonuses for you" is to simply answer with "No more deposits for you."

When players start disappearing every time a casino bonus bans them maybe they'll get the message that the only thing they accomplished is to lose the player and any possibility of getting the money back the player just won.

 

[winbig]

Sorry, but this clip keeps popping up in my head everytime the bonus banning issue comes up.

 

[just play]

LMAO...my husband and I probably use a Seinfeld "line" or say something like who are you...Kramer, on a daily basis.

Hate the bonus (Drake)

 

[tat00]

im gonna deposit right now at a casino wich will be my 50th bonus- i bet u anything i wont be flagged

 

[Kenny Lingus]

Hi Chuchu,

That is incorrect. A 20x(D+B) bonus on slots without maxcashout and 100% cashable is very much so +EV. It would be tremendously easy to keep 5% of ones total stake under the total bonus received, therefor the player that plays only with bonuses like that is guaranteed to make a profit on the long term.

.....The bottom line is that this behavior is no risk for the player - sure he'll lose a couple of deposits before he hits but when he does it'll make up for all previous sessions and more.

......It also makes perfect sense that the casino is only capable of making this assessment after the player wins. Until the point that he cashed out they had no way of predicting how much he would play. If the player had played for a week before cashing out - the situation might have been totally different. (as the player would've staked much more). In that scenario the casino might feel it perfectly plausible to continue to offer these bonuses as then they serve the purpose that bonuses originally were intended for .. providing extended playtime.

Hi Roygen, it is a bit naive to think that what you lose is won by the casino. For every $1 you stake - the casino makes approx $0.05 (before costs like transactions, staff, servers etc). If you lose $100 on blackjack in one bet, a casino only makes about +- 0.5$ on that .. the rest is won .. by other players or even by yourself on a future or past deposit.

Well unfortunately, bonuses are not offered to help you 'get more wins cashed out' .. they are offered to help you have more fun. This business is entertainment .. and yes casinos do charge to offer that entertainment. Just like your local movie theater, or bar.

Ah, but if you lose, lady luck did not give you the opportunity to enjoy the entertainment. It's when you win that you confess colors .. are you taking these bonuses to maximize your entertainment - or are you taking them merely to try and cashout.

As mentioned before .. depositing does not make you a loyal customer - playing does. It's not because you won - its because you finally got the opportunity to play - and enjoy the extra entertainment value those bonuses were for - and instead - you withdrew after very little play.

Nobody is questioning your motives - I believe you 100% if you say you were not doing this intentional - but still if there is no or little difference between your play profile and that of someone who would be doing it intentional and calculated .. then that profile itself can only be labeled abusive.

.......Again, until the player has some luck - there is no way for the casino to tell whether or not he is enjoying the value of the bonus as entertainment or looking at it purely to make that cashout.

What an interesting group of statements - revealing, arrogant and condescending all at once!

Play to win, specifically to cash out, and well, you've shown the casino your true colors (you are now "abusive", so no more bonuses). But mindlessly lose your money for "entertainment", and you are a VIP in their book!

Thank goodness I quit 3Dice ages ago! It is apparent that Enzo is quite the shark!

CASINOS WANT YOUR MONEY AND THEY AREN"T INTERESTED IN ANYTHING ELSE!!!!

 

[Larsenne]

Hi Roygen, it is a bit naive to think that what you lose is won by the casino. For every $1 you stake - the casino makes approx $0.05 (before costs like transactions, staff, servers etc). If you lose $100 on blackjack in one bet, a casino only makes about +- 0.5$ on that .. the rest is won .. by other players or even by yourself on a future or past deposit.



Well unfortunately, bonuses are not offered to help you 'get more wins cashed out' .. they are offered to help you have more fun. This business is entertainment .. and yes casinos do charge to offer that entertainment. Just like your local movie theater, or bar.



Ah, but if you lose, lady luck did not give you the opportunity to enjoy the entertainment. It's when you win that you confess colors .. are you taking these bonuses to maximize your entertainment - or are you taking them merely to try and cashout.



As mentioned before .. depositing does not make you a loyal customer - playing does. It's not because you won - its because you finally got the opportunity to play - and enjoy the extra entertainment value those bonuses were for - and instead - you withdrew after very little play.



Nobody is questioning your motives - I believe you 100% if you say you were not doing this intentional - but still if there is no or little difference between your play profile and that of someone who would be doing it intentional and calculated .. then that profile itself can only be labeled abusive.



I'll agree with you that there are probably at least a dozen of different ways to bring the message that would all have been more pleasurable to you. I personally am no fan of the everything or nothing scenario, I'll elaborate below in my response to chuchu.




The formula you are using only applies to post-wager bonuses. (refer the EV of sequence of bonuses thread). The bonus described in this thread is player +EV.



Absolutely - tourneys can guarantee entertainment in a way bonuses never will be able to. We do apply a mix of both.




Absolutely. The 3Dice system works different there .. the bonuses offered depend on the VIP level of the player which depends on the total comp points earned. Comp points are not earned on the part of your balance that is bonus (so if you take a 100% bonus you get comppoints at half the rate since half of your balance came from your funds). This system automatically and completely eliminates all bonus abuse. A player that plays only the bonuses offered will therefor drop in loyalty level and get smaller and smaller bonuses until eventually he reaches a member status and no further offers are sent.

This is an ease-in ease-out system that gives our players the tools needed to be aware of their account status, and it allows them to enjoy the promotions offered by 3Dice in any way they like.



Again, until the player has some luck - there is no way for the casino to tell whether or not he is enjoying the value of the bonus as entertainment or looking at it purely to make that cashout.

Kindest regards,

Enzo

Dear Enzo.

I find it not plausible that people go to casinos to beeing just entertained while loosing their money. Of course any player at a casino has the intention to win.
To compare a casino with restaurants and bars is a very strange way to look at the casino business. If you buy a ticket to a theatre, you will be sure that you have a seat, and there will be a performance, if you bet at a casino you risk to get nothing (except for a minutes of spinning wheels).

If people would just go for entertaining they would all use the fun-mode to play at the casinos.

In Sweden all casino activity considers as lottery. So in the way you look into this matter, buying a lottery ticket in the shop is the entertaining part, and after bying that lottery ticket, I don't bother if i win on that.
If I go to a trotting track, I just go there to look on nice horses.

Every e-mail I have got, promoting casinos is about WINNING.

" Become a millionaire in one spin."
" Huge bonuses. WIN BIG"
" These are our latest WINNERS. Dont miss your bonus."

So what is this all about?

I will not comment the specific issue here about Inetbet, which I consider a very nice casino. But I think that casinos should stop put the economical responsibility on the players.
We - the players - are there for entertaining, yes, but also for the ability to win.
With or without bonuses, I don't bother. The economic calculation of profit for the company (casino) is their business, like all other companies in the world.

Quit the double standard about it.

Kind regards

L'arsenne

 

[Solveit]

I dont have any good experiance with Inetbet.
Bad and rude support-read Brian.
Bad loyalty bonus- i never got more than $25 mostly $5, at Club World at least $25 with same amount monthley deposite.
Greedy casino i think.

 

[rouletteguy]

I have no doubt in my mind that slots have tightened but you have to look at it from a business perspective (both sides player building bankroll and casino) In the beginning to entice players It makes sense to have loose slots, say alot of 10 dollar wins while playing to increase playtime. IF you only have a small customer base.

It leads to good reviews and more customers. Everybody is winning a little bit.
As that customer base increases so too will the number of disciplined players proportionately. A disciplined player is one who will play to a small win and stop.

The longer the casino is around the more it needs to stay fresh, what is going to draw in more people? 100 people winning 1000 dollars or 10 people winning 10000?

In a sense it's similar to the old Vegas trick of placing the loose slots by the door to entice people to come in and play.

Apparently it works quite well because the oldtimers on this site remember the good old day's of making a second income off of online gambling while it was new and the casino's were small. That's long since changed but they still play and give casino's that free advertising that it's possible.

and then there is the disciplined player's content to make 20 a day and cash out 600 end of month on a 20 deposit. Server's cost money, man power costs money, the longer you play the longer your connected and the more it is costing the casino per click of the mouse.

In short now that there casino is big business it is more cost effective to decrease length of play time and increase size of pay outs The RTP is the same just distributed in bigger chunks.

I know it sucks but if you want the longer playtime you IMO have a better chance at a new casino where they need you to come back.

Or it could be that casino's are "in the know" on Government run casino's becoming a reality in Canada and U.S. and they want to clean house as much as possible before there crushed out of business.

 

[bjoslin]

What He Said

If you only want players to take bonuses 2 out of 3 times then state that. Don't wait until the player wins and then insult him by stating that his account has been "Flagged." This implies that the player is doing something wrong.

Unless this player has been playing outside the casino guidelines he should be congratulated when he finally manages to win, not insulted.

WHAT HE SAID

 

[bjoslin]

My Two Cents (Restrictions Apply)

I've read with amusement the discussions on this subject...just had to add my two cents (+100%,25xWR,10xMax).

Anyone who thinks that bonuses are provided to give the Player an advantage, doesn't fully understand how they work. The bonus gives the Casino an advantage. How? Because the wagering requirement multiplier, increases the odds that you will play back any winnings before being able to cash out. Moreover, Max Cashouts insure that you won't be able to cash out any large win.

Having said that, I do take advantage of bonuses more often than not. But with strict guidelines. First and foremost: NO MAX CASHOUT. Isn't the point of playing, so that one day soon you'll hit that big jackpot? (I've hit over $10K on three occasions). It would make me physically ill to win $10K, and only be able to cash out $2K.

Secondly, I look for bonuses with the lowest WR (playthrough), and the lowest minimum deposit. Example: [$30 Deposit + 150% Bonus X 30% WR = $2250 Playthrough]. Whereas: [$20 Deposit + 50% Bonus X 20% WR = $600 Playthrough].

In the first example you get to play with $75, while you only get $30 to wager in the second example. However if you look more closely the higher bonus increases your wagering dollars by only 150%, while increasing your playthrough requirement by 275%. Therefore if you use bonuses, it is to your advantage to take the smaller bonus. It is to the casino's advantage if you take the larger bonus.

I should note here, that I've found iNetBet's bonus structure (albeit slim), one of the most advantageous under this criteria. Their minimum deposit for bonuses is only $10, and most bonuses are only 50%. However I don't like the bonuses restricted to one small group of slots, and don't use them. This leaves me with about 5-6 available iNetBet bonuses per month. [Another caveat: I play almost exclusively at "CMA" casinos. "Casino Meister Accredited"].

I find it hilarious when casino reps tell me "I could give you a fabulous bonus of 300% if you deposit $50 instead of $20!" I want to say, "what do I look like, a fool?". Instead, I politely tell them "thanks no, the 100% bonus is just fine with me".

That's my two cents. (With a lot of playthrough.)

 

[winbig]

Well, let's see here.

We have 5 pages of mostly very long, well thought out responses, that bring up many valid points.

With 1 post from whomever is at the helm of inetbet promos, which was very arrogant and has their typical "we're always in the right" mentality.

'nuff said.

Here's some good reading, inetbetpromos:

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