- Joined
- Sep 25, 2010
- Location
- Germany
hate the RNG > random nonsense generator .........:lolsign:
joking
joking
I HATE Microgaming
- Thread starter whodatrec
- Start date
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2013
- Location
- Scotland
It seems to me that what has happened with Microgaming is that the features on certain games may have been capped.
I tend to play the nine slots rather than the 243s, but even so I had well over 300 free spins rounds in 2014 without having a single good one.
The highest return on total stake has been 250x -ish (pretty rubbish) and when I play I now expect the feature to be lame.
The actual line payouts in the base game still seem to pay the same (the top symbols still land 5oaks with reasonable frequency), and I've had a couple of 5-scatters recently so no problems there.
However I definitely get the impression that the features are playing totally differently to this time last year.
I tend to play the nine slots rather than the 243s, but even so I had well over 300 free spins rounds in 2014 without having a single good one.
The highest return on total stake has been 250x -ish (pretty rubbish) and when I play I now expect the feature to be lame.
The actual line payouts in the base game still seem to pay the same (the top symbols still land 5oaks with reasonable frequency), and I've had a couple of 5-scatters recently so no problems there.
However I definitely get the impression that the features are playing totally differently to this time last year.
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2001
Data? Examples?
Without these things, impressions are meaningless.
Again, people have been saying the same thing about the same games for years and years. If they were all right then nobody would be playing as the TRTP would be zero by now.
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2013
- Location
- Scotland
I don't think that's quite the case. This is a very specific observation based on playing a specific set of games over a six year period.
The Thunderstruck (1) range of nine line games (inc Spring Break etc) were introduced from 2003 to 2007 and I started playing them in 2008.
The appeal to me was that the feature was pretty generous and exciting becuase it would routinely throw out 640x, 800x free spins rounds that would make the games' lack of glitz worthwhile.
It was only in about September last year that it started to be noticeable that these features were not happening.
And in noting that I've played over 300 free spins rounds across a range of MGS casinos in 2014, there has not been a single feature that payed over 250x and I am making that observation, which I have not seen made before on here before contrary to your generalisation.
I will take a note as I pass 500, 1000, 2000 etc free spins rounds on TS1 and its clones whether I see one that pays out over 250x but my instinct is that I won't because it feels as if these features have been capped.
And while you say that 'impressions are meaningless' I disagree. As online casinos do not tell us how their games work or provide source code, impressions/instinct/feel are important tools for the player to make decisions (as they cannot make informed decisions.)
p.s. Not for a second am I saying that RTP is lower, did I even mention RTP? I've had a good run of wins and am up overall over the period (because I've been lucky)
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2001
Well, to be fair, you did say you had the "impression" that the features were "playing differently" last year. Assuming you don't mean they are paying more (as that would negate the need for most of your comments), then it must be that they're paying less I.e. the TRTP is lower. If I've got it all wrong, and you're actually saying the features are worse but the base game is better, and hence the TRTP is the same, then please elaborate.
See, we remember the big feature wins and often forget the gazillion crap features we had in between. The games you mention have always paid like that. Nothing has changed. Hitting a bonus round over 250xbet is incredibly difficult at the best of times, so the recent absence of these kind of wins is not surprising nor abnormal. People have a really goodstreak of big wins, and expect this is going to happen rregularly....well it doesn't, and when it doesn't the mind starts creating "impressions" that aren't there in reality.
You say players have no tools to make informed decisions. Totally incorrect. Ever heard of Excel? Keep detailed records of your sessions over a two year period, and analyze one year against the other. Simples. You will be able to tell whether the features are paying less, and what your RTP is over that time.
If you came here and posted your results and analysis and it showed that there have indeed been changes, them I'm all ears and I would take you seriously. As it stands, all you have is "feelings" based on absolutely no real data, which are about as useful as a glass jackhammer.
You obviously don't really think they're fiddling with the games, because you keep playing them. I mean, who in their right mind would play with a provider who they suspected were changing game payouts on the fly? I sure as hell wouldn't.
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2013
- Location
- Scotland
I can't see why it's even useful to know my personal RTP. Over a two year period I'll have a very different figure to any other given player depending on how relatively lucky I've been. And I don't need excel to be able to keep a record of my highest paying free spins round. I know that every feature I've played in 2014 has paid between 4x stake and 250x stake, not a penny more.
I am not suggesting that the RTP on these games is lower.
I'm putting forward the suggestion that the older games have been made less INTERESTING.
Now why would that happen? Well by making the older games less exciting and therefore less fun (by capping the features so that the massive ardrenaline rush hits are a thing of the past even if the overall RTP isn't changed) it would potentially influence the playing habits of the fans of older games to make them more likely to play the new games more.
While I don't play Immortal Romance, this would correlate with the experiences of players earlier on this thread who seem to be having similar gripes. (IR being a relatively old game itself)
- Joined
- May 17, 2012
- Location
- UK
I've had most luck on MG lately and horrible luck on WMS.
Got nothing but dead spins on a couple of WMS slots which peed me off yesterday when I had 3 witch bonus rounds on Ruby Slippers, including one with all characters and it gave me the witch on the very first pick on all occasions from the bottom right square.
Got nothing but dead spins on a couple of WMS slots which peed me off yesterday when I had 3 witch bonus rounds on Ruby Slippers, including one with all characters and it gave me the witch on the very first pick on all occasions from the bottom right square.
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2009
- Location
- Sweden
Isn't it strange how different it can be for different players?
Some win and some lose
I'm sure these threads are needed for discussions and education, but sometimes I feel that common sense should be enough
Isn't it strange how different it can be for different players?
Some win and some lose
I'm sure these threads are needed for discussions and education, but sometimes I feel that common sense should be enough
I don't think it's strange, in fact that should be the most expected behaviour
, casinos would be out of business if winning patterns even come close to becoming deterministic !
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2009
- Location
- Sweden
I don't think it's strange, in fact that should be the most expected behaviour
:notworthy:notworthy:notworthy
Yeah I'm not particulary interested in playing slots that pay diddly squat on the feature so MG has lost me there (but they lost me a long time ago). I have taken Nifty's advice and I think other members who aren't happy with MG should as well - Stop playing if you're not happy with MG.
Thanks to Nifty's advice my wallet looks allot more healthier
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2013
- Location
- Dún Dealgan
I had my biggest x stake wins on MGS slots so I cannot complain.
But I have to agree lately,last few months I have more frequent sessions where variance is insane and the feature would not trigger for like 1000-1500 spins with an absolute record on League of Fortunes and Avalon I and II where it took over 2000 spins!!! to trigger the feature.
I understand due to the variance sometimes this can happen but it should not become a common thing i.m.h.o.
So also for me it feels if the MGS slots are either on a very cold streak or the variance is pounding on my head since a few months.
When I just started to play MGS I was always point on schedule with a feature triggering every 100-400 spins ish.
Might have been luck that the machine was running it's set average.
But I still managed to land 3x a 1000+ x stake win on IR in the space of a month,had a few great wins on TFROL,a massive hit on Untamed Wolf Pack,a few good hits on Burning Desire,Dr What's Up,Wicked Circus etc etc...All MGS 243 liners so I still do like them as I know they can throw out amazing wins.
But also I had the worst streaks on these machines and busted out fairly hard on League of Fortunes,Avalon II and recently Break Away.
So yeah,they can defo be very very hard slots to play,gain a profit.
But that said,same goes for bloody Netbent,Novomatic,Ash Gaming,Playtech and WMS.
When caught in a bad mood all slots are bad for your bankroll.
But I have to agree lately,last few months I have more frequent sessions where variance is insane and the feature would not trigger for like 1000-1500 spins with an absolute record on League of Fortunes and Avalon I and II where it took over 2000 spins!!! to trigger the feature.
I understand due to the variance sometimes this can happen but it should not become a common thing i.m.h.o.
So also for me it feels if the MGS slots are either on a very cold streak or the variance is pounding on my head since a few months.
When I just started to play MGS I was always point on schedule with a feature triggering every 100-400 spins ish.
Might have been luck that the machine was running it's set average.
But I still managed to land 3x a 1000+ x stake win on IR in the space of a month,had a few great wins on TFROL,a massive hit on Untamed Wolf Pack,a few good hits on Burning Desire,Dr What's Up,Wicked Circus etc etc...All MGS 243 liners so I still do like them as I know they can throw out amazing wins.
But also I had the worst streaks on these machines and busted out fairly hard on League of Fortunes,Avalon II and recently Break Away.
So yeah,they can defo be very very hard slots to play,gain a profit.
But that said,same goes for bloody Netbent,Novomatic,Ash Gaming,Playtech and WMS.
When caught in a bad mood all slots are bad for your bankroll.
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2013
- Location
- Scotland
I agree mark that Nifty's main message seems to be to avoid playing at Microgaming until the smoke clears.
The question remains though, will the smoke ever clear? I can't think of any other major industry that handles and processes public deposits that is passively allowed to get away with such ongoing lack of transparency as the online casino industry in general.
Maybe gamblers en masse just have to get pro-active and start insisting on answers.
We must never forget after all who is the customer in this arrangement.
A group of gamblers representing the silent voice e.g. a GAMBLERS UNION crossing to the Isle of Man and knocking on Microgaming's doors might be a far fetched picture for some, but such a direct approach might be the only way to get the answers that never appear.
catapultaudio
Experienced Member
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2013
- Location
- Leeds, UK
MGS was by far my favourite software up until maybe 12 months ago, since then I have had only 1 or 2 good runs on it (mainly on playboy). I still think their table games, especially blackjack, are the fairest on the net and have had some sick streaks (turned a £25 deposit into £700 in under 10 minutes for example) playing that, but slot wise I'm only bothering with DOA and Great Blue right now, and am definitely well in profit this year so far as a result.
It's this simple - if you feel like your getting robbed blind, just stop playing those games. Sure, I know it's probably just "variance" and all that, I'm sure it's not technically "rigged", but I'd rather use my money on games I *FEEL* are giving me a better chance.
It's this simple - if you feel like your getting robbed blind, just stop playing those games. Sure, I know it's probably just "variance" and all that, I'm sure it's not technically "rigged", but I'd rather use my money on games I *FEEL* are giving me a better chance.
Same shit happened again! First spin i get WD and 0 then its dead for a while then a free spinn and 0. Then it takes the remaining money without giving any bonus round.. This game is not normal i swear something is wrong.
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2001
Wow.
It's like they're designed to take your money or something
How do you think the monster 5 reel WD hits are funded? A higher amount of zero or extremely poor bonus rounds and 1/2 reel WDs.
You play high variance, you get high variance.
For you, it's a case of throwing money at something you don't (or won't) understand. The old proverb about a fool and their money comes to mind.
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2006
- Location
- USA
list some the ways a casino can increase or maintain the same profit margins. After all the price of everything goes up.
increase player base would be one.
decrease overhead would be another.
any others come to mind?
increase player base would be one.
decrease overhead would be another.
any others come to mind?
- Joined
- May 22, 2012
LOL......I can just visualize a long line of disgruntled players leading to the door of MG HQ in the IOM, like a long silver snake with all the foil hats glinting in the sun, like a giant string of Christmas tree tinsel....
- Joined
- May 22, 2012
I am not going to go overboard on the OP because I too have started a thread (Wintingo) in the past where I had a shocking session on MG slots, and no amount of rationalizing at the time would calm me into seeing the wood for the trees. I have learned that these exceptionally bad runs are usually balanced with good ones. Balthazar recently posted a 3-reel sh!tstorm, a rare event that he had not seen in years. I had seen one and thought nothing of it at the time, not realizing how rare it was. I then hit a 4-reel one on LaVida, unique in the massive screenshots thread on CM (there is a 5 from somewhere else posted there.)
At Bet-at I hit 5 gold bars and wilds on BDBA, less than 500 spins later I hit 5 banknotes with wilds. Yet I have had terrible runs on this HV beast.
The TRTP is a figure of what the GAME will pay on an indefinite basis, and the longer the game is played the casino will get nearer the figure due to the large number law. The same goes for the players, but in a less smooth pattern. We have the stats to prove this from kktmd, and it seems less than a million spins (and even less if you look at Nates stats) will get any player pretty much bang-on the advertised TRTP.
The issue here is that most players have accounts short-term, get their SUB and have a tiny proportion of this amount of spins therefore seldom get near this figure, but due to hours they play they feel that they have been 'playing it forever' whereas in reality they have had less than 10k spins in total, nowhere near enough to form a considered opinion, let alone represent it as fact.
If the player did play 500k or more spins, they would then be very near the TRTP plus could isolate periods of play (say 2k spin blocks) where they had stupendous returns and a RTP of 4-500% with consecutive high-yield features and conversely 2k blocks of 30% RTP where play was awful.
95% of the posts on here refer to players/casino accounts that are relatively 'young' therefore have really high or low curves on the RTP line, so the threads are 'wow look at what I won!' or 'xxx game/casino is shit/cheating/turning RTP down' blah blah.
Once readers see through this then their replies can be more objective and realistic.
At Bet-at I hit 5 gold bars and wilds on BDBA, less than 500 spins later I hit 5 banknotes with wilds. Yet I have had terrible runs on this HV beast.
The TRTP is a figure of what the GAME will pay on an indefinite basis, and the longer the game is played the casino will get nearer the figure due to the large number law. The same goes for the players, but in a less smooth pattern. We have the stats to prove this from kktmd, and it seems less than a million spins (and even less if you look at Nates stats) will get any player pretty much bang-on the advertised TRTP.
The issue here is that most players have accounts short-term, get their SUB and have a tiny proportion of this amount of spins therefore seldom get near this figure, but due to hours they play they feel that they have been 'playing it forever' whereas in reality they have had less than 10k spins in total, nowhere near enough to form a considered opinion, let alone represent it as fact.
If the player did play 500k or more spins, they would then be very near the TRTP plus could isolate periods of play (say 2k spin blocks) where they had stupendous returns and a RTP of 4-500% with consecutive high-yield features and conversely 2k blocks of 30% RTP where play was awful.
95% of the posts on here refer to players/casino accounts that are relatively 'young' therefore have really high or low curves on the RTP line, so the threads are 'wow look at what I won!' or 'xxx game/casino is shit/cheating/turning RTP down' blah blah.
Once readers see through this then their replies can be more objective and realistic.
Oh the smoke over MG will never clear, Have they ever addressed these concerns? No (at least not that I'm aware of). Which makes me wonder what they are hiding that must be so secretive? That's if they are hiding anything, and if they aren't what's with the need to be so secrective? I'm not buying these excuses of they think it's because knowledge might give players a edge, even if it did it's something that could easily be resolved with one of the many regular updates MG do on their slots
I stopped playing MG ages ago as per Nifty's advice as I just wasnt hapy with the slots. I really missed them at first, MG do have some fun slots, but the feeling of not digging yourself into a hole with their tight slots (IMO) is really just so SO gratifying. Quit playing them, speak with you're wallet, after a while you get over not playing them anyway. I've replaced MG with Live Black Jack and some Roulette. I'll play Netent and PT occasionally but I'm having allot more fun on the live table games, you can turn $100 into two weeks playing time (something I've never been able to do on any software). I'll give the Play N Go slots a few spins a few times a week. But yes if you're not happy with MG just stop playing it's really not worth the time or money.
The thought of playing MG makes me shudder (like RTG) just not worth the time, hassle, torture, money, etc.
kidgamer
Dormant account
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2001
- Location
- Los Angeles
Count your blessings.
As a US player, I can't play at Microgaming, Playtech, and NetEnt casinos. Back before it was made illegal by my govt I used to love to deposit and play MGS slots for hours (Ladies Night, Cashapillar, and Thunderstruck were personal favorites. I made a decent income at it for several years too. I miss the good ol' days
As a US player, I can't play at Microgaming, Playtech, and NetEnt casinos. Back before it was made illegal by my govt I used to love to deposit and play MGS slots for hours (Ladies Night, Cashapillar, and Thunderstruck were personal favorites. I made a decent income at it for several years too. I miss the good ol' days
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2004
- Location
- SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
My results are on the opposite side of yours. Never hit anything decent on DOA but hit a 2800x win on the WD feature. With these high variance games you have to live with the fact that it might take forever to get a monster hit. I am still waiting for my first 5 wilds in the DOA feature but honestly I have encountered spells where I can go through 300 spins without the feature and even then I haven't gotten 4 wilds even once on a payline.
- Joined
- May 22, 2013
- Location
- Cumbria
This was my worst session, although most other sessions have been similar
£250 starting balance 712 spins, NO features and NO win over 15x stake
£250 starting balance 712 spins, NO features and NO win over 15x stake
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2009
- Location
- Sweden
Why in the world are you continuing to play a slot that is paying so bad?
I don't get it. Like to punish yourself? Threw your money away?
I would have left after $50, the latest, and tried to find a game that will pay. But that's me.
I don't get it. Like to punish yourself? Threw your money away?
I would have left after $50, the latest, and tried to find a game that will pay. But that's me.
Yeah but that's just the problem none of them do pay (IMO).
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2009
- Location
- Sweden
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2014
- Location
- United Kingdom
You could just be on a bad run though. A losing streak. Hitting a feature still wouldn't guarantee a win. I'd probably take a break for a bit.
MiltonW
Dormant Account
- Joined
- May 24, 2014
- Location
- Netherlands
Second that. I've also given up on MicroGaming. Even NetEnt pays better. I don't know what they're doing, but it's not good. I like playing Ramesess Riches for instance, though only on Liberty Slots/Lincoln, because the WGT version (still NextGen I guess, instead of MicroGaming) seems to have a much higher rtp. My favorite at the moment is PlayTech though, hope they kick MicroGames ass...
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Who are surprised by that comment from Mark please raise your hand
I see lots of members raising their hand, lol! But hay I don't really care, I'm free to write whatever I want
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2009
- Location
- Sweden
I see lots of members raising their hand, lol! But hay I don't really care, I'm free to write whatever I want
Of course you are
Just remember the story about he who were crying out that the wolf were coming...
...in the end people might stop listening when it's something else important you say.
I would love to know
The MG slots are TIGHT (IMO). Netent seem's alot more mellow like it won't eat you're whole balance up in under ten minutes like MG (at least that's been my experience).P.s. Tirilej you have the right to you're opinion regarding MG as I have mine. We will leave it at that.
midnightcowboy
Dormant account
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2014
- Location
- Denmark
I had some really bad streaks att Microgaming, but some good ones aswell!
Tried a small deposit at betsson again. I intended to play the new WMS slots, but saw that terminator slot and had to give it a go. Same thing again.. Just no playtime what so ever on MG. Just bleeds me dry right away.. I guess u have to be from the UK to win on these slots..
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2012
- Location
- Republic Of West Yorkshire
Im sure some of the big winners who posted screenshots in the Terminator 2 thread aren't from the UK
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2012
- Location
- Republic Of West Yorkshire
It was a joke
Yes i know lol.
That Netent and Scandinavian thing came to my mind also
- Joined
- May 22, 2013
- Location
- Cumbria
well TSII is currently standing at 94.6% at Videoslots, this is stated as it's Actual, Lifetime RTP%. which is 3% below it's stated theoretical RTP%. Maybe It's just not a lucky place to play TSII
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- Joined
- Sep 23, 2012
- Location
- Australia
lockinlove
Editing my post so I dont get in trouble
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2014
- Location
- Canada
my run with MG has been mostly shit shit shit pay when hitting features.
I was playing the new girls with guns, terminator and burning desire. I hit 12 features in total in a shorter time than usual.
Betting 60 cents to 90 cents and none of the features paid me over $5.
I find it incredibly rare to get above your starting balance in almost all sessions lately. Its usually lose $70 quickly, hit something get close to even than drop further. Rinse, repeat.
Ive been smart. If im up even $40 and ive got some decent play time in. I cash out instead of chasing a decent win.
Im learning not to stay on one slot too long. I like to move around, explore and have some fun. If Im going to lose, at least get my fill of various games.
32red is a demon site. That is the only site I have played on for a very long time and never came close to a single cashout or any kind of a hit. The best thing I ever did was stop playing there. Ever since, ive been a winning player and recovered a tonne of my losses.
Ive had decent hits on gaming club and ladbrokes when it was MG. But that 32red was absolute filthy
I was playing the new girls with guns, terminator and burning desire. I hit 12 features in total in a shorter time than usual.
Betting 60 cents to 90 cents and none of the features paid me over $5.
I find it incredibly rare to get above your starting balance in almost all sessions lately. Its usually lose $70 quickly, hit something get close to even than drop further. Rinse, repeat.
Ive been smart. If im up even $40 and ive got some decent play time in. I cash out instead of chasing a decent win.
Im learning not to stay on one slot too long. I like to move around, explore and have some fun. If Im going to lose, at least get my fill of various games.
32red is a demon site. That is the only site I have played on for a very long time and never came close to a single cashout or any kind of a hit. The best thing I ever did was stop playing there. Ever since, ive been a winning player and recovered a tonne of my losses.
Ive had decent hits on gaming club and ladbrokes when it was MG. But that 32red was absolute filthy
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