Question How go you get verified, when you do all your business online ??

[brianmon]

I have a problem with Casino Cruise at the moment.

I made a withdrawal request at the weekend. On Sunday they emailed me asking for my documents, which I emailed.

On Monday, they sent an email back saying that my proof of address wasn't valid - It was 9 days older than the 3 month allowed.
So I sent a screenshot of my details from my online banking, asking if this would would suffice, and if not, what could they suggest.

Despite sending numerous emails to them for an update on the situation, and contacting the rep on here. I never got a reply.
Until today (Friday), I received a standard email asking for proof of address !!!

The problem is, the only paper bill I receive is Council Tax, every April, the one I submitted to Casino Cruise was an amended bill, dated 30/04/2015.

So my Question is... With more and more people conducting their business online. How are you supposed to get verified, when you don't receive paper utility bills, bank statements, etc?

Anyone know of any other options, since casino cruise seem to be unwilling to make any suggestions.
Or they're stalling, hoping I'll reverse the withdrawal - which I WON'T

 

[cncas2123]

I have a problem with Casino Cruise at the moment.

I made a withdrawal request at the weekend. On Sunday they emailed me asking for my documents, which I emailed.

On Monday, they sent an email back saying that my proof of address wasn't valid - It was 9 days older than the 3 month allowed.
So I sent a screenshot of my details from my online banking, asking if this would would suffice, and if not, what could they suggest.

Despite sending numerous emails to them for an update on the situation, and contacting the rep on here. I never got a reply.
Until today (Friday), I received a standard email asking for proof of address !!!

The problem is, the only paper bill I receive is Council Tax, every April, the one I submitted to Casino Cruise was an amended bill, dated 30/04/2015.

So my Question is... With more and more people conducting their business online. How are you supposed to get verified, when you don't receive paper utility bills, bank statements, etc?

Anyone know of any other options, since casino cruise seem to be unwilling to make any suggestions.
Or they're stalling, hoping I'll reverse the withdrawal - which I WON'T

I usually send a downloaded copy of my Sky bill as proof of address as my landline and broadband are through Sky and ive never had any issues with it not being accepted.

 

[brianmon]

I usually send a downloaded copy of my Sky bill as proof of address as my landline and broadband are through Sky and ive never had any issues with it not being accepted.

Cheers, there isn't an option to download a bill with Plusnet, But I've emailed them a screenshot

 

[vinylweatherman]

It's rather ridiculous, and is based on the old concept of the "quarterly bill", hence the 3 month limit. The problem is that now it's more the "annual statement" that people tend to get through the post, as modern billing tends to be by monthly direct debit and through an online account service.

Equally ridiculous of course is the solution. Download the online bill that they won't accept, and print it at home on a sheet of A4, which magically makes it sufficiently reliable that it's now accepted. Since modern bills are now produced by printer onto plain A4 printer paper, rather than the "special" paper that used to be used as a means to tell apart the fakes from the original, there is no way now to tell the difference between a scan of a bill printed and posted by the utility, and one you have downloaded and printed yourself via the online account service.

It IS the PDF version you need, not a screenshot of the bill from your online account. The PDF version is what would have been printed and posted out as the "paper bill".

Only a few bills don't have the "online only" version, and these are things like council tax, tax demands from HMRC, etc. However, even this may soon change, HMRC are going to be changing their systems, and the introduction of Universal Credit as an "online only" service will replace many of the benefits that currently come with plenty of "proofs of address" for casinos.

Casinos will be FORCED to modernise their KYC procedures as they will run out of customers able to handle "old school" paper bill based KYC. This moment has yet to come though because many businesses and government departments are still operating their "legacy" systems since not everyone is yet happy or able to operate online only. It's mostly the elderly, but as they die off and are replaced with a new set of internet savvy elderly, we will eventually see online only being the default, and the minority die-hards who still want bits of paper will be told to print it off themselves as it's no longer going to be an option offered by the providers.

Some casinos WILL now accept the original PDF download as an attachment, rather than expecting you to print it off and scan it back to a file. Maybe they know it makes no difference because they can't tell from a mere JPEG image of the document.

However your online account provides the billing, what you are looking for, and what casinos are REALLY after, is the page showing your postal address that would normally be showing in the envelope window of the posted copy, and a clear date of the account statement. They don't care what is being provided, and how much and how you are paying for it. The main problem with screenshots is that they don't show the postal address along with the statement date.

In all of this, the level of security features on the average paper bill has been reduced so that it can be produced as cheaply as possible using bog standard printer paper on a bog standard industrial printer. I was taken aback when I was sent a motor insurance certificate that was devoid of the expected watermarked special paper and fancy security patterning that I had been used to seeing, and finding that it was something I could so easily have created myself and printed onto plain paper at home, and thus get my car "insured" for free. It was then revealed that this move was safe because motor insurance authenticity no longer relies on telling apart a genuine paper certificate from a fake, it's all down to an electronic data check. The same is true of the other paper statements, they can be easily faked, but the electronic checks will tell the fake home creation from the genuine copy of an actual account statement, even though both look the same.

If casinos are still relying on the paper document alone, they are opening up to easier frauds as detection has been moved away from document security features to electronic verification of the data itself.

Even PDF isn't as "locked down" as it once was, and there are free and easily obtainable tools to edit PDF documents, without having to pay hundreds of pounds to Adobe for the official full version of Acrobat that is used to create PDFs in the first place. There may, however, be some security markers that can tell whether or not a PDF sent for verification has been tampered with by the player after having been downloaded from an online account service. This isn't something the player is going to be told, and Adobe may be ensuring that it's something that can be used to uniquely identify and authenticate the creator of a PDF.

 

[brianmon]

The other thing is...

This is an EveryMatrix site, and with all the shit going on about Self Exclusion at casinos who share a license.
Why can't verification be shared between all the sites which share a particular license?

I'm verified at 6 of the sites with which Casino Cruise share a license. The most recent being PlayHippo, who verified me only 16 days ago

 

[chayton]

The ONLY thing I get in my name at home is my bank statement and they keep wanting me to go paperless, but I'm holding out because I need the paper statement for proof of address. Have you tried contacting the rep here just to see if they can help you get sorted out?

Also I agree that casinos using a shared license should only need one set of docs - if the sites are linked as far as self exclusion, they should also be linked for player verification.

 

[brianmon]

Yeah, I've sent a message to the rep. but he hasn't replied, even though he's been online twice since I sent it.

It wouldn't be so bad if it was a small amount but it's £550

 

[spintee]

It's rather ridiculous, and is based on the old concept of the "quarterly bill", hence the 3 month limit. The problem is that now it's more the "annual statement" that people tend to get through the post, as modern billing tends to be by monthly direct debit and through an online account service.

Equally ridiculous of course is the solution. Download the online bill that they won't accept, and print it at home on a sheet of A4, which magically makes it sufficiently reliable that it's now accepted. Since modern bills are now produced by printer onto plain A4 printer paper, rather than the "special" paper that used to be used as a means to tell apart the fakes from the original, there is no way now to tell the difference between a scan of a bill printed and posted by the utility, and one you have downloaded and printed yourself via the online account service.

It IS the PDF version you need, not a screenshot of the bill from your online account. The PDF version is what would have been printed and posted out as the "paper bill".

Only a few bills don't have the "online only" version, and these are things like council tax, tax demands from HMRC, etc. However, even this may soon change, HMRC are going to be changing their systems, and the introduction of Universal Credit as an "online only" service will replace many of the benefits that currently come with plenty of "proofs of address" for casinos.

Casinos will be FORCED to modernise their KYC procedures as they will run out of customers able to handle "old school" paper bill based KYC. This moment has yet to come though because many businesses and government departments are still operating their "legacy" systems since not everyone is yet happy or able to operate online only. It's mostly the elderly, but as they die off and are replaced with a new set of internet savvy elderly, we will eventually see online only being the default, and the minority die-hards who still want bits of paper will be told to print it off themselves as it's no longer going to be an option offered by the providers.

Some casinos WILL now accept the original PDF download as an attachment, rather than expecting you to print it off and scan it back to a file. Maybe they know it makes no difference because they can't tell from a mere JPEG image of the document.

However your online account provides the billing, what you are looking for, and what casinos are REALLY after, is the page showing your postal address that would normally be showing in the envelope window of the posted copy, and a clear date of the account statement. They don't care what is being provided, and how much and how you are paying for it. The main problem with screenshots is that they don't show the postal address along with the statement date.

In all of this, the level of security features on the average paper bill has been reduced so that it can be produced as cheaply as possible using bog standard printer paper on a bog standard industrial printer. I was taken aback when I was sent a motor insurance certificate that was devoid of the expected watermarked special paper and fancy security patterning that I had been used to seeing, and finding that it was something I could so easily have created myself and printed onto plain paper at home, and thus get my car "insured" for free. It was then revealed that this move was safe because motor insurance authenticity no longer relies on telling apart a genuine paper certificate from a fake, it's all down to an electronic data check. The same is true of the other paper statements, they can be easily faked, but the electronic checks will tell the fake home creation from the genuine copy of an actual account statement, even though both look the same.

If casinos are still relying on the paper document alone, they are opening up to easier frauds as detection has been moved away from document security features to electronic verification of the data itself.

Even PDF isn't as "locked down" as it once was, and there are free and easily obtainable tools to edit PDF documents, without having to pay hundreds of pounds to Adobe for the official full version of Acrobat that is used to create PDFs in the first place. There may, however, be some security markers that can tell whether or not a PDF sent for verification has been tampered with by the player after having been downloaded from an online account service. This isn't something the player is going to be told, and Adobe may be ensuring that it's something that can be used to uniquely identify and authenticate the creator of a PDF.

You can still bypass the forge by just printing it out after edit and than scan and send the scan, Stupid yes but like you said its all unnecessary, But any person that can edit pdf will know if any marks are left in the file name,

 

[Harry_BKK]

I have a problem with Casino Cruise at the moment.

I made a withdrawal request at the weekend. On Sunday they emailed me asking for my documents, which I emailed.

On Monday, they sent an email back saying that my proof of address wasn't valid - It was 9 days older than the 3 month allowed.
So I sent a screenshot of my details from my online banking, asking if this would would suffice, and if not, what could they suggest.

Despite sending numerous emails to them for an update on the situation, and contacting the rep on here. I never got a reply.
Until today (Friday), I received a standard email asking for proof of address !!!

The problem is, the only paper bill I receive is Council Tax, every April, the one I submitted to Casino Cruise was an amended bill, dated 30/04/2015.

So my Question is... With more and more people conducting their business online. How are you supposed to get verified, when you don't receive paper utility bills, bank statements, etc?

Anyone know of any other options, since casino cruise seem to be unwilling to make any suggestions.
Or they're stalling, hoping I'll reverse the withdrawal - which I WON'T

Take a screenshot of your Neteller or Skrill account showing your personal details. That should do it, well, it did it in my case, not at CC though.

My problem always is that my bills are all in Thai, so nobody can read them.

 

[spintee]

Take a screenshot of your Neteller or Skrill account showing your personal details. That should do it, well, it did it in my case, not at CC though.

My problem always is that my bills are all in Thai, so nobody can read them.

Thing is can you read Thai

 

[Harry_BKK]

Thing is can you read Thai

sure can, read and speak

 

[spintee]

sure can, read and speak

Good man, I have trouble reading / speaking English and had over 30 years experience

 

[sueyh]

How about the bank statement?
Can you ask your bank to send a paper statement with the issued date on?

 

[spintee]

How about the bank statement?
Can you ask your bank to send a paper statement with the issued date on?

Pointless, Surely on-line banking has your addressee on there?

Its ridiculers, You know to a few years ago I was a ghost, Only I,D was my birth certificate and old doctors card, and my WORD, no bills in my name, I have nether travelled nor had a driving license, Believe me I paid the penalty's on that one, I had the same bank for near on 30 years but nether used it, Was opened when I was a kid,

I admit I done some stupid stuff in my time, All that matters at the time was I was living it up big, Money was not a problem back than or was driving or need I.D, I mean what did you need it for? Not many people ask for I.D when flasing alot of cash about, Now days every one wants your bloddy piss sample to go piss

 

[brianmon]

So...
On Friday I sent a screenshot of my broadband bill. I got the usual automated reply to say my email had been received.
On Saturday night, I received an email saying that my withdrawal had been cancelled and the funds returned to my account.
So, I made another withdrawal request.
It's now Monday, and I've had no communication from Casino Cruise. Not even to say they've rejected my proof of address.

 

[yyuu]

check your online banking, it should have pdf statements, black out sensitive info and use that

 

[mina1929]

The Process

It must be so frustrating to go and do all that running around. I now do verification first before I intend to do withdrawal. Sometimes they don't let you know that you're verified as I have been waiting and waiting for a reply and eventually I send an email and ask how is verification process going, they say, oh you're verified. I am thinking, thanks for letting me know lol Luckily I have my phone and electricity bill in paper form so I send that.

Some Casinos make it so quick and easy with verification and others just take so long.

 

[brianmon]

check your online banking, it should have pdf statements, black out sensitive info and use that

I can get pdf statements from my online banking. But they don't show my address, just my name.
Although I did find a recent letter from the bank, in pdf form, so I emailed that to them this afternoon.

But yet again. Not even an acknowledgement from them to say they've received it, let alone, tell me if it's acceptable or not

 

[michielm1]

same problem only things that arent payed automatically, are things like the 'end of the year bill'...
i just go to city hall 2 times a year and get a stamped and signed copy of my registration at the address i live.

 

[hoff1985]

Sometimes it's weird yeah. I remember one casino said no digital bills and only landline or electricity bill. I don't have a landline phone anymore and electricity bills are automatic. But you'll always find a solution sometimes they just like the delay

 

[brianmon]

Finally got verified on Tuesday, taking a total of 10 days, it then took another 44 hours to be processed and reach my neteller account

 

[Matti]

It's rather ridiculous, and is based on the old concept of the "quarterly bill", hence the 3 month limit. The problem is that now it's more the "annual statement" that people tend to get through the post, as modern billing tends to be by monthly direct debit and through an online account service.

Equally ridiculous of course is the solution. Download the online bill that they won't accept, and print it at home on a sheet of A4, which magically makes it sufficiently reliable that it's now accepted. Since modern bills are now produced by printer onto plain A4 printer paper, rather than the "special" paper that used to be used as a means to tell apart the fakes from the original, there is no way now to tell the difference between a scan of a bill printed and posted by the utility, and one you have downloaded and printed yourself via the online account service.

It IS the PDF version you need, not a screenshot of the bill from your online account. The PDF version is what would have been printed and posted out as the "paper bill".

Only a few bills don't have the "online only" version, and these are things like council tax, tax demands from HMRC, etc. However, even this may soon change, HMRC are going to be changing their systems, and the introduction of Universal Credit as an "online only" service will replace many of the benefits that currently come with plenty of "proofs of address" for casinos.

Casinos will be FORCED to modernise their KYC procedures as they will run out of customers able to handle "old school" paper bill based KYC. This moment has yet to come though because many businesses and government departments are still operating their "legacy" systems since not everyone is yet happy or able to operate online only. It's mostly the elderly, but as they die off and are replaced with a new set of internet savvy elderly, we will eventually see online only being the default, and the minority die-hards who still want bits of paper will be told to print it off themselves as it's no longer going to be an option offered by the providers.

Some casinos WILL now accept the original PDF download as an attachment, rather than expecting you to print it off and scan it back to a file. Maybe they know it makes no difference because they can't tell from a mere JPEG image of the document.

However your online account provides the billing, what you are looking for, and what casinos are REALLY after, is the page showing your postal address that would normally be showing in the envelope window of the posted copy, and a clear date of the account statement. They don't care what is being provided, and how much and how you are paying for it. The main problem with screenshots is that they don't show the postal address along with the statement date.

In all of this, the level of security features on the average paper bill has been reduced so that it can be produced as cheaply as possible using bog standard printer paper on a bog standard industrial printer. I was taken aback when I was sent a motor insurance certificate that was devoid of the expected watermarked special paper and fancy security patterning that I had been used to seeing, and finding that it was something I could so easily have created myself and printed onto plain paper at home, and thus get my car "insured" for free. It was then revealed that this move was safe because motor insurance authenticity no longer relies on telling apart a genuine paper certificate from a fake, it's all down to an electronic data check. The same is true of the other paper statements, they can be easily faked, but the electronic checks will tell the fake home creation from the genuine copy of an actual account statement, even though both look the same.

If casinos are still relying on the paper document alone, they are opening up to easier frauds as detection has been moved away from document security features to electronic verification of the data itself.

Even PDF isn't as "locked down" as it once was, and there are free and easily obtainable tools to edit PDF documents, without having to pay hundreds of pounds to Adobe for the official full version of Acrobat that is used to create PDFs in the first place. There may, however, be some security markers that can tell whether or not a PDF sent for verification has been tampered with by the player after having been downloaded from an online account service. This isn't something the player is going to be told, and Adobe may be ensuring that it's something that can be used to uniquely identify and authenticate the creator of a PDF.

The KYC rules is nothing that the Casinos have invented. It is not to mixed up with fraud prevention. It is only about money laundering. Regulated casinos has to obide by theese rules or risk of getting their license revoked. The authority that many casinos has to report to is MFSA(Malta Service Service Authority). If casinos could make their own KYC for their internal purpose(ie fraud) this problem would probably not exist. No casino, exept maybe the rouges, want to make it hard for customers to withdraw.

 

[vinylweatherman]

The KYC rules is nothing that the Casinos have invented. It is not to mixed up with fraud prevention. It is only about money laundering. Regulated casinos has to obide by theese rules or risk of getting their license revoked. The authority that many casinos has to report to is MFSA(Malta Service Service Authority). If casinos could make their own KYC for their internal purpose(ie fraud) this problem would probably not exist. No casino, exept maybe the rouges, want to make it hard for customers to withdraw.

The KYC procedures seem to differ from one casino to the next, so there is plenty of leeway for interpretation on the part of casinos. The argument still holds that unless the procedures are updated to reflect how things work in the real world, they will still run out of customers who decide that the procedures are "impossible" for them to work with, and this could be a good thing for land casinos who don't ask for so much when you walk through the door. Here they just have to verify that you are old enough, which means that if you are young, or look very young, you will be asked for proof of age. What they won't do is ask for a copy of the back and front of the debit card you used to draw that cash out of the ATM across the road that you just walked in, and if you have brought your latest energy or phone bill today, as if not, you can't come in. However, it's the SAME set of anti money laundering rules that lie behind both approaches. The main difference is that land casinos tend to offer you free drinks and snacks, rather than a 100% bonus on the money in your wallet. If this was purely about money laundering, the rules would be the same regardless of whether or not a bonus was used, or the outcome was a win or a loss.
It looks to me as though some online casinos are misusing "money laundering regulations" as a cover for "spirit of the bonus", so if they feel that a player has played outside the spirit of a bonus, but within the rules, they will use a nit picking approach to KYC as a means to punish and deter "bonus abusers".

Casinos ARE allowed to take chances with money laundering in order to "make it easier for players to deposit" because they fear that a strict up front KYC procedure would drive down their profits as many players would be deterred by knowing what the actual procedure is up front, even though it's no different to the procedure they would face upon withdrawal, but of course then the casino can hold their payout to ransom.

 

[Greigssy]

Vera John is another casino who do not accept screenshots of utility bills. I had to send KYC documents just to re-open my account but the screenshot of a secure web page on the O2 site clearly showing my details was not accepted. How would they expect me to verify my Skrill account if they asked?

I don't have any paper bills, so I guess I'm playing and depositing elsewhere.

 

[spintee]

I just been verified at betsafe, I sent in Driving licence, BT internet / homeline bill, and a print screen of my skrill, There was a message bleeping so looked and said want pic of government I.D whiten 72 hrs, Every time I clicked the page said "felling lost" This was obvious a dead link and a standard message in your inbox on the site, I tried telling CS this and would not have it, Telling me to delete the cookie and milk story,

I put a few brains cells together and relised that had to go into my acount and go to verryfie, Why didnt they just say that?

Any way whiten 2hrs I am approved and got a green light, But in my email it said approved - approved - approved - denied, I took a look and the screen snap of my skrill was denied, I am sure they cleared me any way but I always send extra in, Would of been good to let me no why it was denied,? Did they not need it? All I got was

A document you have submitted for verification: Proof of ID , has not been approved.

The reason given for this is : 818915

Any way alll seems to have been sorted,

 

[cnichas]

Paperless is the way foward

The ONLY thing I get in my name at home is my bank statement and they keep wanting me to go paperless, but I'm holding out because I need the paper statement for proof of address. Have you tried contacting the rep here just to see if they can help you get sorted out?

Also I agree that casinos using a shared license should only need one set of docs - if the sites are linked as far as self exclusion, they should also be linked for player verification.

I say digital all the way no paper,
Here In good old sunny SA post has become a forgotten service,
Our postal service is so corrupt you do recieve mail the saliva of the sender used to seal the envelop has been stolen

My eco card and netteller card were stolen in transit that by the 6th month I paid 100€ to courier them to my door and 100€ is a lot considering our local currency is best used to wipe ones a##.>,\

I always try verify fully before 1st deposit to check out the casinos operating style
Quick verification, secured account and instinct all come together and it works
I don't know why netteller can't be a kyc on its own I mean to verify that account for a South African is tedious so much so that I'm sure if some the casinos knew it would be enough, apart from the casinos using the " spirit bonus tactic "

 

[dunover]

I say digital all the way no paper,
Here In good old sunny SA post has become a forgotten service,
Our postal service is so corrupt you do recieve mail the saliva of the sender used to seal the envelop has been stolen

My eco card and netteller card were stolen in transit that by the 6th month I paid 100€ to courier them to my door and 100€ is a lot considering our local currency is best used to wipe ones a##.>,\

I always try verify fully before 1st deposit to check out the casinos operating style
Quick verification, secured account and instinct all come together and it works
I don't know why netteller can't be a kyc on its own I mean to verify that account for a South African is tedious so much so that I'm sure if some the casinos knew it would be enough, apart from the casinos using the " spirit bonus tactic "

LOL. I lived in SA for a while but not in the craphole Gauteng, in Natal. Quite nice actually and the post worked OK outside Durban. It was great getting paid in GBP and getting about R15/£ at the time, 30 Rothmans for 7 bucks and a 6-pack of Castle for about 12 or a bottle of Mainstay for about 19....

 

[cnichas]

LOL. I lived in SA for a while but not in the craphole Gauteng, in Natal. Quite nice actually and the post worked OK outside Durban. It was great getting paid in GBP and getting about R15/£ at the time, 30 Rothmans for 7 bucks and a 6-pack of Castle for about 12 or a bottle of Mainstay for about 19....

You lucky bugger!!! I love Durbs it's my home away from home go as often as I can to umchlanga, yea if you earning forieng currency here you can really live well but not with Zar its useless, gauteng is a proper poo hole , luckily I'm Greek South African so I have dual residency got a eu passport thank God because the way things are looking here I think in terms of safety and quality of life I'm better off in Europe ,

We have a cocoa infused castle milk stout out here now it's freaking awesome like drinking a chocolate beer malt I'll crack one open for you now bud
Cheers