Casino Complaint Help from experienced members required concerning Guts/Rizk

taximania123

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casinos view on a refund

Nope. That you even get close to a situation where it "can work both ways" is down to the lack of due diligence by the licensee. By rights you should simply get deposits returned, win or lose, no more no less. All your bets are technically void as are all money transactions. Parity should be restored and your account shut.

From guts
refunds, though, can only be issues if there was a long technical delay that allowed you to play when you shouldn't have been able to - as far as i know at least.
 

taximania123

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Its not my thread KK

Why have you started this SECOND thread about the exact same subject? :confused:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/guts-casino-complaint.72112/?t=72112

You could have just carried on in your original thread.

KK

KK - That not my thread although i concede it covers a similar subject , i could maybe have posted my issue on there but im not sure that would get as many responses as most people have already commented .
I appologise if im clogging up the airways i just assumed it was ok for me to ask my own question rather than simply ask on someone elses thread ?
i see that several people have had similar problems and the the original poster received a refund so i guess as i deposited a much larger amount maybe they are reluctant to respond to my request in the same way ?


From Guts :
refunds, though, can only be issues if there was a long technical delay that allowed you to play when you shouldn't have been able to - as far as i know at least.
 

taximania123

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WTF is going on? :what: :mad:

We have now nearly more threads with SE mess than other stuff, which at least would be interesting to read.

I am getting sick and tired of casinos letting people register, deposit, play and then after days or when it comes to a withdrawal - "whooops, you are SE'ed at XYZ, we keep your deposits and void the winnings!!!"

Put this in front of a court and it will never stand!!! Period!!!

No matter how good the standing of Guts/Rizk/Betspin here at CM is, but this is becoming a second EM nightmare. Why on earth can't they crosscheck records when an account is opened. Only takes a split of a second with today's technology - one blip to the database and one blip back telling the "new player" - "sorry but your are SE'ed at XYZ, you can't register with us" - simple and effective. :rolleyes:

As i have said now many times this must be very profitable for casino operators as not many players will come to CM or AG or ThePogg and complain. They will take it on the chin that the money is gone.

PURE GREED FROM THE CASINOS!!! :mad:

I was told that many players are abusing the system by doing a SE on one casino and then play with no risk at the other. Well, do your crosscheck at registration and NOBODY can abuse it!!!! :rolleyes: :eek:


thanks for the input ....i am not really sure i should have been excluded anyway but having excepted the explaination from them that both cooling and SE are treated as the same thing i figured it does not really matter ...just looks like a case of win win for the casino . If i could print the all the messages that have gone between us it would show that there was a significant change in the helpful attitude ...but im still optimistic :)
 

KasinoKing

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KK - That not my thread although i concede it covers a similar subject , i could maybe have posted my issue on there but im not sure that would get as many responses as most people have already commented.
Ooops sorry - my bad! :oops:
It seemed virtually identical and I obviously missed that it was a different OP.
Most haste, less speed! :eek2:

KK
 

dunover

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thanks for the input ....i am not really sure i should have been excluded anyway but having excepted the explaination from them that both cooling and SE are treated as the same thing i figured it does not really matter ...just looks like a case of win win for the casino . If i could print the all the messages that have gone between us it would show that there was a significant change in the helpful attitude ...but im still optimistic :)

Yes, it is. The bigger licensees/bookies will stop these registrations. They have the tools and don't need the revenue. It tends to be the smaller offshore licensees that run the SE scam. Perhaps their smaller size means the benefits of it matter more to their turnover. Who knows for sure?

I am rapidly starting to believe that the SE scam is on par with excessive pending periods for withdrawals as a tool to help a casino's balance sheet.

Dress it up how you like - 'business decision' or whatever. It's BS.
 

Tirilej

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thanks for the input ....i am not really sure i should have been excluded anyway but having excepted the explaination from them that both cooling and SE are treated as the same thing i figured it does not really matter ...just looks like a case of win win for the casino . If i could print the all the messages that have gone between us it would show that there was a significant change in the helpful attitude ...but im still optimistic :)

What bothers me most in this is that everything should be called self exclusion if that's what they mean, no matter the time.

They should also list all casinos that are included if anyone SE. And of course not let anyone sign up, or if they already have other accounts get them closed immediately.

It seems silly to pay back deposits if the account are closed just for a week, but if that is a rule from ukgc then that's what they have to do.
Maybe it's just a day left of it when the money arrives but they have created the problems themself by not being clear.
 

Nicola

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The other question that spring to mind here is why have Guts/Rizk/BetSpin suddenly closed loads of accounts? Judging by the numbers of posts here in the last 24 hours and elsewhere we are talking hundreds if not thousands of people affected.

To me it seems that MT Secure Trade have broken the rules for a long time allowing people to play at Guts when they were self-excluded at BetSpin. Did they get a bollocking from UKGC last week and it's not public yet?
 

dunover

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What bothers me most in this is that everything should be called self exclusion if that's what they mean, no matter the time.

They should also list all casinos that are included if anyone SE. And of course not let anyone sign up, or if they already have other accounts get them closed immediately.

It seems silly to pay back deposits if the account are closed just for a week, but if that is a rule from ukgc then that's what they have to do.
Maybe it's just a day left of it when the money arrives but they have created the problems themself by not being clear.

It's not. This is why it's so unfair to the OP.

You will find all UKGC sites nowadays (that do it right) will have 2 different menus. 1 day to 6 weeks T-A-B.
3 or 6 months to 5 years/permanent SE

Check out 32red, Slots Magic, Lucky Balls, Slingo, Jackpot Joy, Virgin, Starspins, Spin Genie, Sky Vegas etc.

I am also unaware of any UKGC rule that states a player must complete KYC within 72 hours or have their account locked. In that case I should never have been allowed to make 95% of my deposits across tens of casinos in the last few years....

If I am wrong on this point, please direct me to the UKGC rule that specifies this.
 

Tirilej

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It's not. This is why it's so unfair to the OP.

You will find all UKGC sites nowadays (that do it right) will have 2 different menus. 1 day to 6 weeks T-A-B.
3 or 6 months to 5 years/permanent SE

Check out 32red, Slots Magic, Lucky Balls, Slingo, Jackpot Joy, Virgin, Starspins, Spin Genie, Sky Vegas etc.

I am also unaware of any UKGC rule that states a player must complete KYC within 72 hours or have their account locked. In that case I should never have been allowed to make 95% of my deposits across tens of casinos in the last few years....

If I am wrong on this point, please direct me to the UKGC rule that specifies this.

Ok, then the only thing that is different with the uk rules is that it's the license it's about, and not the specific casino
Does it cost money to get a license? Otherwise all those casinos can get their own damn license.

I knew they had to list different days, but they should call them the same and not take a break, freeze, cool off period or self excluding. If all are self exclution then that's what they should be called. They have created more problems than they have helped players that's for sure.

Actually this is silly, if the OP choosed a cool off period for 7 days. Then he went to Guts, lost several deposits and then they closed the account just to be reopened again after a few days. Who does it help?
 

dunover

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Ok, then the only thing that is different with the uk rules is that it's the license it's about, and not the specific casino
Does it cost money to get a license? Otherwise all those casinos can get their own damn license.

I knew they had to list different days, but they should call them the same and not take a break, freeze, cool off period or self excluding. If all are self exclution then that's what they should be called. They have created more problems than they have helped players that's for sure.

Actually this is silly, if the OP choosed a cool off period for 7 days. Then he went to Guts, lost several deposits and then they closed the account just to be reopened again after a few days. Who does it help?

Yes, they should if they were. But they are different things, hence the different menus for times.

It seems either Guts' licensees have made an awful mess-up and misinterpreted the regulations, or are running a scam collecting T-A-B players and confiscating winnings as if they were SE. We know Guts are an excellent group so almost certainly the former - I hope!
 

itsover2014

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Here is my experience with Rizk.

I am SE'd at Guts.

I opened a RIZK account. Sent all my documents. All verified. THEY DID NOT CLOSE MY ACCOUNT.

Then yesterday I thought, ok, I will deposit, try it out as I had no clue they were linked. Logged in and the account was blocked. 8 days after verifying me they blocked me.

This takes the piss. If they are verifying me surely it should include checking that, I could have played for EIGHT DAYS before they would have screwed me. It is lucky I did not deposit!
 

RichyJ75

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Ok, just sent them a little e-mail posing the question about how it was possible to open an account there with active exclusions at Guts/Betspin using exactly the same details.

To my embarrassment/shock/pleasure/puzzlement they have now refunded ALL my deposits! Less than a grand, more than £500.

E-mail sent at 8.24pm, withdrawal in place e-mail received at 8.41pm, e-mail saying they are refunding deposits received at 8.47pm. No arguing, no excuses, just pure acceptance.

Like I said, amazed at the outcome and embarrassed at being in that situation.

Thumbs up for making good the error - yours for accepting my account and mine for well, errr, being a plonker!
 

dunover

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Here is my experience with Rizk.

I am SE'd at Guts.

I opened a RIZK account. Sent all my documents. All verified. THEY DID NOT CLOSE MY ACCOUNT.

Then yesterday I thought, ok, I will deposit, try it out as I had no clue they were linked. Logged in and the account was blocked. 8 days after verifying me they blocked me.

This takes the piss. If they are verifying me surely it should include checking that, I could have played for EIGHT DAYS before they would have screwed me. It is lucky I did not deposit!

Yes, you were lucky.

To Richy -yes, they have done the right thing by you. Like I said they are an honourable lot so that's OK. It still frustrates the hell out of me than rather sort this out by cross-checking, it gets to this stage before being reconciled.

My issue is different. I asked chat before first deposit whether I was affected by Guts etc. and was told no. I played a few deposits at Rizk then found my account locked. I went on chat thinking it was because I had an SE at Guts but was told it was the 72-hour KYC thingy. While on chat I checked my Guts a/c and to my surprise found I was SE'd in a little message box. I pointed out to the chat guy this was out of order for them to take the deposits if this was the case so he checked, told me I WASN'T SE at Guts and then proceeded to reopen my Guts and Betspin accounts!

He apologized for the 'mess' and said I'd have to complain to Guts because they had made a mistake by not reactivating the Guts a/c when the SE expired (so making me think I WAS SE when I wasn't!)

My beef is that I assumed because I deposited at Rizk that any Guts restrictions must have expired - it turns out that I still got the Guts SE message when I was on live chat with Rizk until he reopened it. Therefore as far as I was concerned I WAS SE at Guts when I made the Rizk deposits days before. I have PM'd the rep who actually claims I HAVEN'T been SE at Guts since 4/10/2015 so why for months have I been unable to log-in to Guts due to a SE message??

So, either a really bad error by Guts and I was NOT SE but they failed to change access to the account accordingly so I was unable to log-in for 4 months when I should've been able to, or I really was SE and shouldn't have been able to deposit at Rizk like many posters in this thread.

Whichever one, I ain't happy at all. The reps are trying to sort it out for me but it's taking a while. I still don't have an answer.
 

Tirilej

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Dunover didn't you keep the emails when you self excluded from Guts so you know what date it was and for how long?
Or does that only show in your account when you do it yourself?

I know they have sent emails to others but maybe they asked by email.
 

dunover

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Dunover didn't you keep the emails when you self excluded from Guts so you know what date it was and for how long?
Or does that only show in your account when you do it yourself?

I know they have sent emails to others but maybe they asked by email.

No I didn't keep original SE e-mail. This is because most sites will state for example "due to SE you cannot log-in until 15:56 xx/xx/xxxx date" when you try to log-in.

As for any subsequent e-mails, no have never received any. Usually a casino e-mails telling you SE/Break is over.
 

zach2193

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Ok, just sent them a little e-mail posing the question about how it was possible to open an account there with active exclusions at Guts/Betspin using exactly the same details.

To my embarrassment/shock/pleasure/puzzlement they have now refunded ALL my deposits! Less than a grand, more than £500.

E-mail sent at 8.24pm, withdrawal in place e-mail received at 8.41pm, e-mail saying they are refunding deposits received at 8.47pm. No arguing, no excuses, just pure acceptance.

Like I said, amazed at the outcome and embarrassed at being in that situation.

Thumbs up for making good the error - yours for accepting my account and mine for well, errr, being a plonker!

I am currently awaiting my refund to but they seem to be dragging there feet. I was stupidly not aware they were joint and I was technically not allowed to sign up to Rizk. But it is a complete joke that they took 8 days to discover this, I had sent my documents to them on day one and didn't play until it was accepted I then proceeded to deposit around 30 times in the next 6-7 days and played a lot with no issues and then bam it says I'm blocked I asked why and they said they had just done the cross check with guts (which I was blissfully ignorant to knowing they were under the same licence) for all there new players and I was excluded there! Surely they should have done this the moment players signed up! I also was not informed of this if I had never gone back to play there then I would have never known!
 

RichyJ75

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I am currently awaiting my refund to but they seem to be dragging there feet. I was stupidly not aware they were joint and I was technically not allowed to sign up to Rizk. But it is a complete joke that they took 8 days to discover this, I had sent my documents to them on day one and didn't play until it was accepted I then proceeded to deposit around 30 times in the next 6-7 days and played a lot with no issues and then bam it says I'm blocked I asked why and they said they had just done the cross check with guts (which I was blissfully ignorant to knowing they were under the same licence) for all there new players and I was excluded there! Surely they should have done this the moment players signed up! I also was not informed of this if I had never gone back to play there then I would have never known!


I wasn't aware of the link/shared UKGC licence either and as you say, went through account verification and such like and nothing was mentioned. Made several deposits over a few days and everything seemed fine, but then I hadn't made a withdrawal (Immortal Romance was a killer during this time!) to trigger any kind of funds forfeiture route.

Don't get me wrong, I gambled, lost and took it on the chin. It was only when it came to light that it was highly unlikely that any withdrawal of winnings would be successful that I simply asked them a question - I did not request refund of deposits or being impolite. Would have been different I suppose if I won big and had it confiscated, so suppose the operator can't have it both ways.

Full credit to them for volunteering the refund and taking a responsible attitude, BUT, to save any bad feelings from the outset I believe a system should be implemented to stop accounts being opened which are blocked within the same group.
 

zach2193

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I wasn't aware of the link/shared UKGC licence either and as you say, went through account verification and such like and nothing was mentioned. Made several deposits over a few days and everything seemed fine, but then I hadn't made a withdrawal (Immortal Romance was a killer during this time!) to trigger any kind of funds forfeiture route.

Don't get me wrong, I gambled, lost and took it on the chin. It was only when it came to light that it was highly unlikely that any withdrawal of winnings would be successful that I simply asked them a question - I did not request refund of deposits or being impolite. Would have been different I suppose if I won big and had it confiscated, so suppose the operator can't have it both ways.

Full credit to them for volunteering the refund and taking a responsible attitude, BUT, to save any bad feelings from the outset I believe a system should be implemented to stop accounts being opened which are blocked within the same group.


Yes surely it cannot be so hard to put a system in place or at least signpost it on sign up, in big bold letters state 'Operating under Guts licence, players excluded at one casino is excluded from them all' that way people will at least realise they should not be able to sign up.
 

dionysus

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Yes surely it cannot be so hard to put a system in place or at least signpost it on sign up, in big bold letters state 'Operating under Guts licence, players excluded at one casino is excluded from them all' that way people will at least realise they should not be able to sign up.

MT SecureTrade Limited (part of the GiG - Gaming Innovation Group - family), but carry on. :)
 

zach2193

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MT SecureTrade Limited (part of the GiG - Gaming Innovation Group - family), but carry on. :)

I think you misunderstood what I meant on the sign up page:

sign up.jpg

They could include a warning there :p, most people don't go to the bottom and investigate everything like a lot of people who have been playing at online casinos for years do.

Also if you are a casual slot player I highly doubt they would know what the gaming innovation group is ;)
 
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