Guts Support & KYC Document Request

[MrSilver]

If someone SE from any of igamingcloud platform casinos , is account SE from every igamingcloud platform casino's ?

many guestions..

Yeap, you'll be blocked to all sister Site....Well, infact....at first, you'll probably be able to play and Deposit, but Once you win and try to withdraw....sadly it will be all seized!

 

[Deeplay]

.. I HAVE TO PAY TO CHECK MY CREDIT REPORT !!

I'm glad I cut right down with online casino accounts !! Now I only play with the cream of the crop casinos

Actually not true ;-) Noodle give unlimited free access to your credit report.

 

[Guts - Yits]

Hi,

that's highly unusual, sorry for any trouble caused. Please PM your guts details and I'll have the guys look at it on Monday.

Y

Whats happend to Guts support they take an age to answer live chat .... and I have sent a number of mails no reply ....

they blocked my account cause they needed KYC documents. Fine sent them in on Monday was told 24 to 48 hours. Checked yesterday
when i did get through to support they told me it will be sooner 24 hours or less. Today nothing ....


Sent yes another email asking when they think they will approve my documents (all in order same ones I use for every casino )

still no reply. Crap way to treat a customer and clueless support who fob me off with the same answer "they will be verified soon"

 

[Guts - Yits]

It's true that Guts and the platform group behind it are growing rapidly, and i believe the team in question has as many as 4-5 vacancies at the moment due to an exponential increase in workload and traffic, they are hiring as fast as possible.

Having said that though, over 72 hours is still well beyond their average, even taking into consideration the recent increase I mention above.

As stated, Ill take it up with the guys on Monday, and will update thread accordingly.

Y

Yeah, seems to be a common subject with them lately. Getting a bit big now I suspect. When I started play there 2 years or so back verified and paid in about 19 minutes IIRC.

 

[Guts - Yits]

The talk of sacking an entire company of well-meaning humans might be a tad over the top? But you are, of course, entitled to your opinion.

Some casinos will strive to be the best when starting out, and for a while Guts were untouchable. Personnel come and go.....

Probably not what they once were but in this industry you can't rest on your laurels. Customer service is paramount!

Maintaining that standard of excellence is difficult as there is no accounting for what 'ensemble' is currently running the show.

Sack the lot of them and start anew I say

 

[Guts - Yits]

Pls PM me your details so I can send it thorugh for investigation and get back to you.

Thanks in advance,

Y

Yep after waiting 15 minutes on live support to answer me she came back and said your account is blocked because you have SE from Rizk ... im like WTF my rizk account is open ... I was actually logged into Rizk when she said that. I rare if ever use SE and only use TAB every now and then. Explained to her the situation that I was actually in Rizk ... another wait ... then oh yes sorry thats not the issue its just the ID department are busy you will hear from them by the end of today .... same as I was told yesterday. Im not holding my breath.

 

[Guts - Yits]

There was no downtime that I know of at the time of posting Jon, but I'll chase for you.

..and now their whole website has gone down, literally 30 seconds after I deposited and lit a cig.

After last night's shenanigans at Thrills I'm just about ready to call it a day with this pointless slotting lark.

Seem to spend more time cursing lag and disconnections than I do enjoying a few spins.

Edit: - 4th disconnection already

 

[Guts - Yits]

No other providers should be affected by the netent removal - they run on separate third party systems

Opened fine here - I just logged in to make sure they keep to their word and that none of my achievements are wiped with their NetEnt removal. (my TDKR is at 42 spins x4 @$3 - ill go right bloody mental that gets wiped before my deppo next week)

 

[Guts - Yits]

Pls send me time and details (and any screenshots if they arise) so I can look into it.

Maybe it's a stealth 'Responsible Gambling' manoeuvre by the UKGC. Makes the games laggy as hell, mixed with a few disconnects.

Failing that, take the whole site down!

I had the 'you've been playing for' box pop up earlier too. It kept bugging out and not close, so I had to exit the game I was on

Truth be told though, there are worse things you could give up instead of slotting/ gambling. I ain't gonna tell you not to do it!

 

[Guts - Yits]

Goatwack, also pls send PM with details - I'll chase...provided you don't call me a wanker please.

Well, now you're talking! We can understand you now Deeplay!

"Listen you dumbass, I do not have a self-exclusion at Rizk, I just want the fucking account verified. I was not laundering money, just want my bloody cash-out sometime in this century , if possible, you wankers!

kind regards, Deeplay"

 

[MrSilver]

My account with Rizk is also closed.. 48hrs after opening it If you demand ID within 48hrs.. Bye

Well, Honestly....would Prefer a Casino who Demand ID Before any deposit or/and as soon you Open your Account, rather than....after requesting a withdraw which will takes days and you may Lost/voided/seized your money for X reason......therefore, if a Casino require you to do so..*Before*.....seem more legit to me, Annoying...yes? But would rather show up my ID FIRST.....once approved, then you may gamble like crazy! so if ever we do win 20k 50k....you're sure....you won't have any problem getting your money$

Unless, indeed you have something to Hide and have no ID or Proof of residence.....that's a sad unfortunate situation for you.....However, Casino have lots of Pressure due to money laundering and tons of Bonus abuses ects...


Anyways to Stay on the topic, Needless to say....this Guts problems, is kinda inappropriate and taking way too long to fix, specifically for a nice member like Deeplay

 

[Guts - Yits]

Sounds like UKGC requirements that we can't escape in order to be able to provide you guys with the service. PM me details, and I'll chase along with the others.

My account with Rizk is also closed.. 48hrs after opening it If you demand ID within 48hrs.. Bye

But, hey.. At leaste you didn't take, take, take and then ask for ID I've seen that casinos can find you on the electoral roll and also by credit reports... I HAVE TO PAY TO CHECK MY CREDIT REPORT !!

KYC is just another reason not to pay out in my eyes, I'll always see it like that There's so much to a casino that says "Fun" and then you see T&C's updated every other month (Like it or don't play here), max bets, KYC, laggy games (Only sometimes mind), random logouts and stupid amounts of wagering requirements.. There's the "Fun" gone :bubbles:

I'm glad I cut right down with online casino accounts !! Now I only play with the cream of the crop casinos

 

[Guts - Yits]

We do ask UK players for ID after registration, alerting them that they have 72 hours to send in ID, as per UKGC rules.

I wish every casino would ask for I.D ASAP, Nothing worse than making a with draw than get the dreaded ask for doc's, I know you can send I.D in brfoe hand but some sites do not like this or be asked to sort out untill needed, Rizk has an onsite upload I.D so no messing about with emails etc,

 

[Guts - Yits]

It was, as far as I know, implemented out of security necessity, rather than choice. I can assure you it hurts every casino to have to restrict a payment method for welcome bonsues - it's literally a last resort and not meant personally to any genuine customer.

I am certain they are sorry for the hassle, and feel for you.

In the general bonus terms (from the link at the bottom of the homepage) and also referenced in the current 4 days of promotions

View attachment 67569

If It is wrong then they've lost a few hundred pounds worth of deposits from me this week. Because I would have deposited on each of the 4 days.

Also Neteller deposits are free. If I use my debit card, they charge 2.5%

 

[Guts - Yits]

Will chase and organise the seaparate complaints and issues tomorrow when the office is back to life - for those who I have missed quoting peronally - pls do PM me any necessary details so I can pile them through as part of this issue.

 

[brianmon]

It was, as far as I know, implemented out of security necessity, rather than choice. I can assure you it hurts every casino to have to restrict a payment method for welcome bonsues - it's literally a last resort and not meant personally to any genuine customer.

I am certain they are sorry for the hassle, and feel for you.

It's not just the Welcome bonus though, I could understand if it was.

I use Neteller because I prefers to keep gambling transaction from my bank account, to a minimum, as do a lot of players.
So I'm hardly going to use my debit card (and pay 2.5%), just to take a reload bonus, especially if I've got a decent balance already sat in Neteller.
I'm obviously going to deposit at another site, who are also offering a bonus, and who accept Neteller.
Because there's nearly always a couple of casinos offering a bonus on any given day

So it's the casino losing out, not the customer.

Hopefully you're saving more from the 'fraud', than you're losing from genuine customers depositing elsewhere

 

[Guts - Yits]

Fair do's - can you take it up with the Betspin rep? See what they can do for you as I simply have no say in their policy - I can however mention that there are gripes I'm seeing.

It's not just the Welcome bonus though, I could understand if it was.

I use Neteller because I prefers to keep gambling transaction from my bank account, to a minimum, as do a lot of players.
So I'm hardly going to use my debit card (and pay 2.5%), just to take a reload bonus, especially if I've got a decent balance already sat in Neteller.
I'm obviously going to deposit at another site, who are also offering a bonus, and who accept Neteller.
Because there's nearly always a couple of casinos offering a bonus on any given day

So it's the casino losing out, not the customer.

Hopefully you're saving more from the 'fraud', than you're losing from genuine customers depositing elsewhere

 

[Guts - Yits]

Hi Deeplay,

Didn't receive any PM yet from yourself, but have looked at what I assume is your Guts account and can see that the guts restriction was lifted 3 days ago by support, as your exclusion at Rizk had apparently indeed ended. I can also see that it is the second time at least you have a temporary exclusion at Rizk that crosses over to Guts - please can you confirm publicly or or on PM (or both) what the resolution status is for you?

All the best for now - sorry for any hassle caused.

Y

Whats happend to Guts support they take an age to answer live chat .... and I have sent a number of mails no reply ....

they blocked my account cause they needed KYC documents. Fine sent them in on Monday was told 24 to 48 hours. Checked yesterday
when i did get through to support they told me it will be sooner 24 hours or less. Today nothing ....


Sent yes another email asking when they think they will approve my documents (all in order same ones I use for every casino )

still no reply. Crap way to treat a customer and clueless support who fob me off with the same answer "they will be verified soon"

 

[Guts - Yits]

This is incorrect, and I must defend my casino and the group behind it at this blatant misinformation and stoking.

IF you are in any way able to play at a sister site after self-excluding from another one, and that is in some way our fault - you WILL be refunded in full.

This statement only serves to sow misinformation and is borderline libelous. We are a responsible company, and if errors are made, we rectify them, even if it costs us money and if it takes some time to calculate, verify and sort out.

Please confirm to me why you believe this, and if necessary I'll be more than happy to get Bryan involved.

Yeap, you'll be blocked to all sister Site....Well, infact....at first, you'll probably be able to play and Deposit, but Once you win and try to withdraw....sadly it will be all seized!

 

[DANB9191]

Actually not true ;-) Noodle give unlimited free access to your credit report.

Ok well... Maybe it's free to some people But a few do require a monthly payment !! Time to check out Noodle

 

[DANB9191]

Well, Honestly....would Prefer a Casino who Demand ID Before any deposit or/and as soon you Open your Account, rather than....after requesting a withdraw which will takes days and you may Lost/voided/seized your money for X reason......therefore, if a Casino require you to do so..*Before*.....seem more legit to me, Annoying...yes? But would rather show up my ID FIRST.....once approved, then you may gamble like crazy! so if ever we do win 20k 50k....you're sure....you won't have any problem getting your money$

Unless, indeed you have something to Hide and have no ID or Proof of residence.....that's a sad unfortunate situation for you.....However, Casino have lots of Pressure due to money laundering and tons of Bonus abuses ects...


Anyways to Stay on the topic, Needless to say....this Guts problems, is kinda inappropriate and taking way too long to fix, specifically for a nice member like Deeplay

'But, hey.. At least you didn't take, take, take and then ask for ID' I did throw that in there.

 

[spintee]

Ok well... Maybe it's free to some people But a few do require a monthly payment !! Time to check out Noodle

I nether knew it was free either, I know alot / mostly charge, there is some that give your some minor info but thats about it, I personally got free access to credit report as I signed up to talktalk (stupid I know) a few weeks before they got hacked and they sent all customers a free access to one credit report site site,

 

[DANB9191]

I nether knew it was free either, I know alot / mostly charge, there is some that give your some minor info but thats about it, I personally got free access to credit report as I signed up to talktalk (stupid I know) a few weeks before they got hacked and they sent all customers a free access to one credit report site site,

Lets go free

 

[Captain Chaos]

I nether knew it was free either, I know alot / mostly charge, there is some that give your some minor info but thats about it, I personally got free access to credit report as I signed up to talktalk (stupid I know) a few weeks before they got hacked and they sent all customers a free access to one credit report site site,

Noddle is run by a company called Call Credit. One of 3 main CR agencies in the UK. It's a totally free service. IIRC a few questions about what is on your report regarding who you bank with etc to verify you and that should be that really. However, do bear in mind that in order to get a totally accurate picture of your credit report you should seek to get the information from all of them (the others being Experian and Equifax). Some companies report to all 3. Some to only 2 and others to only 1 of the agencies. It's up to the company who they choose to report to. I have old loan agreements for instance that show up on 1 but not another.

I do recommend signing up though if you can. It's useful no matter how incomplete the information!

Sorry for any derail. Carry on!

 

[Deeplay]

Hi Deeplay,

Didn't receive any PM yet from yourself, but have looked at what I assume is your Guts account and can see that the guts restriction was lifted 3 days ago by support, as your exclusion at Rizk had apparently indeed ended. I can also see that it is the second time at least you have a temporary exclusion at Rizk that crosses over to Guts - please can you confirm publicly or or on PM (or both) what the resolution status is for you?

All the best for now - sorry for any hassle caused.

Y

Hi will PM you tomorrow and update thread here just had no time as its been a holiday here and have been out n about. Thanks for responding though I will get back to you

 

[colinsunderland]

Ok well... Maybe it's free to some people But a few do require a monthly payment !! Time to check out Noodle

and clearscore is free if it helps

 

[colinsunderland]

This is incorrect, and I must defend my casino and the group behind it at this blatant misinformation and stoking.

IF you are in any way able to play at a sister site after self-excluding from another one, and that is in some way our fault - you WILL be refunded in full.

This statement only serves to sow misinformation and is borderline libelous. We are a responsible company, and if errors are made, we rectify them, even if it costs us money and if it takes some time to calculate, verify and sort out.

Please confirm to me why you believe this, and if necessary I'll be more than happy to get Bryan involved.

Just to confirm, are you saying

If you are self excluded in another casino within the group but manage to play on GUTS, if you win you will pay their winnings, rather than just refund deposits?

If you will refund the deposits and not pay the winnings, then how exactly is the post you quoted close to libelous? It states you won't pay the winnings, which is how I understood it works.

 

[Tirilej]

Just to confirm, are you saying

If you are self excluded in another casino within the group but manage to play on GUTS, if you win you will pay their winnings, rather than just refund deposits?

If you will refund the deposits and not pay the winnings, then how exactly is the post you quoted close to libelous? It states you won't pay the winnings, which is how I understood it works.

Some places takes it all, both deposits and winnings, which was what MrSilver was claiming that Guts do.
They don't. All deposits will be paid back. It is suppose to be like the player never have been in. No loss - no winnings.

If all players just could stop self excluding from everywhere this problem would stop. If you don't have a gambling problem don't use that damn button!!

 

[colinsunderland]

Some places takes it all, both deposits and winnings, which was what MrSilver was claiming that Guts do.
They don't. All deposits will be paid back. It is suppose to be like the player never have been in. No loss - no winnings.

If all players just could stop self excluding from everywhere this problem would stop. If you don't have a gambling problem don't use that damn button!!

I read it as winnings would be seized

Once you win and try to withdraw....sadly it will be all seized!

Agree with you of he meant all monies though

Having said that casino's should be more up front if you do self exclude as to what other casino's you are stopping yourself from playing at. It wouldn't take much to have on the SE page 'please be aware if you self exclude from here you are also self excluded from other sites using the same gaming license, namely xxx,xxx,xxx'

Never understand why they don't do that, maybe YITs can explain?

 

[Harry_BKK]

Some places takes it all, both deposits and winnings, which was what MrSilver was claiming that Guts do.
They don't. All deposits will be paid back. It is suppose to be like the player never have been in. No loss - no winnings.

If all players just could stop self excluding from everywhere this problem would stop. If you don't have a gambling problem don't use that damn button!!

I read it as winnings would be seized

Agree with you of he meant all monies though

Having said that casino's should be more up front if you do self exclude as to what other casino's you are stopping yourself from playing at. It wouldn't take much to have on the SE page 'please be aware if you self exclude from here you are also self excluded from other sites using the same gaming license, namely xxx,xxx,xxx'

Never understand why they don't do that, maybe YITs can explain?

All fine and dandy, I believe Yits and Guts that they refund all deposits. However, and this is what gets my blood boiling, most SE's are conveniently and suddenly "discovered" only after the player submits a withdrawal!!!

Players who deposit only a few times and quietly lose the lot, well, are they getting their money back???? Probably not unless they are so well informed like us here at CM that they can actually claim the deposits back.

Unless Yits can guarantee that Guts will PROACTIVELY detect any SE'ed player by regularly cross-checking databases with their sister sites and then from their own initiative contact all those players to inform them that they are entitled to a refund, then and only then i will take my hat off and congratulate Guts.

If that is not the case then it is still a "scam" for all those cases that go conveniently undetected.

Further, so far this only applies to UK players. Those playing under the Malta license can SE all the way to the moon and back yet will never see a penny as to my present knowledge the Maltese regulation firstly does NOT specifically demand that SE's should apply across a group and secondly that deposits should be refunded.

 

[MrSilver]

Some places takes it all, both deposits and winnings, which was what MrSilver was claiming that Guts do.
They don't. All deposits will be paid back. It is suppose to be like the player never have been in. No loss - no winnings.

If all players just could stop self excluding from everywhere this problem would stop. If you don't have a gambling problem don't use that damn button!!

First, that's not what i said or meant.....i've replied in a formal way as Representing all Casino in general...not aiming at Guts specifically. (apologize for my lack of English skills)

If you are SE from a specific Casino and try to register at their sister Casino, they might not detect you.......BUT as soon someone Win, they'll request a withdrawal...therefore, normal verification will follow.....and yes, if you're SE, they'll take all your winning and should...indeed, refund your deposit money and close your Account immediately.


However, you're right about peoples self excluding themselves everywhere.....after investigation and reading complaints, it doesn't seem to work for them at all, yet, that wasn't the case of Mr Deeplay...he simply requested a normal Account closure and Not SE himself.

Just to confirm, are you saying

If you are self excluded in another casino within the group but manage to play on GUTS, if you win you will pay their winnings, rather than just refund deposits?

If you will refund the deposits and not pay the winnings, then how exactly is the post you quoted close to libelous ? It states you won't pay the winnings, which is how I understood it works.

Well, thanks for trying to defend my point Sir Colin, obliviously Guts Rep, might not have read all the thread and/or didn't understand clearly what i meant as well....and again this wasn't directed towards Guts Casino.....But to all Online Gaming website.

Consequently to answer it again, No...they will not be paying any winning to SE member....so, my post was "libelous"? i'd like to think not...But this made me smile, good one Yits



Overall, i have nothing against Guts....Nor any of their associated Casino, this situation for me at this stage, is simply considered a misunderstood.

 

[mina1929]

I respect Guts Casino along with Rizk, Betspin etc

I believe Yits is trying very hard solve all issues, he is not Superman I don't think

Anyway, I hope all is good and happy again at Guts soon

 

[DANB9191]

Sounds like UKGC requirements that we can't escape in order to be able to provide you guys with the service. PM me details, and I'll chase along with the others.

My Guts account is up and running but I don't think Guts Casino has had my ID sent in. I will upload what I have but the photo ID is actually out of date.. I'd probably play more with Guts if my ID was approved with the photo ID I have :notworthy

 

[Tirilej]

My Guts account is up and running but I don't think Guts Casino has had my ID sent in. I will upload what I have but the photo ID is actually out of date.. I'd probably play more with Guts if my ID was approved with the photo ID I have :notworthy

How smart was that to state in public? Now we all know that they won't and can't approve it, and for good reasons.
That would open up to everyone who has an outdated ID. Maybe make a new one is a good idea

 

[DANB9191]

How smart was that to state in public? Now we all know that they won't and can't approve it, and for good reasons.
That would open up to everyone who has an outdated ID. Maybe make a new one is a good idea

Maybe not.. I'm not spending £80 on a passport or spending money getting a provisional and driving licence just to have another online casino account Most of the casinos I'm on have glady accepted a birth certificate along with my outdated passport, card scans, recent bank statements and proof of address :notworthy And like I said.. They can easily check the electoral roll and credit reports too I would not go out of my way just to be on a casino.. Stick to the ones you know

 

[dunover]

This goes back to my complaint to Yits ages back when the Rizk CS agent miraculously reactivated my Guts account while on live chat, but later I was told this HADN'T happened by Yits as the Rizk CS wasn't able act on Guts, only Rizk. Yet the Guts was closed (I tried it) during chat then open a minute after that failed try, while still on the same chat. Never did get an explanation.

Last night (after reading Capt. Rizk's post regarding they've now re-opened Rizk accounts like mine that weren't KYC'd and shut after 72 hours automatically by auto-verifying them remotely) I had a small deposit at Rizk and then found I am still SE'd from Guts! So something is clearly a bit odd with these sites under the Guts license - it appears you CAN play at one while SE'd from another.

Sorry to quote my own post. There were very few issues when Guts added Betspin to their license. It seems that the addition of Rizk has somehow caused problems, especially in integrating/cross-referencing info. At least they try, unlike casinos operating under the UK EM License who don't give a flying one.

I think this is relevant, as despite the problems in the thread here, it is clear they always endeavour to treat their players correctly: (Received today)

Dear Mr Rhino-loser,
it has come to our attention that during a recent batch UK ID verification routine, your account at Rizk was incorrectly re-opened during a Self Exclusion period and that you were able to access your account and furthermore deposit. This, of course, should not have happened and we are working to understand why this happened to your account and around 200 others. All accounts, yours included, have now been reset to their correct status however as you were able to make a deposit during this window then of course we will refund this and any/all fees associated.
Our customer services team will be in touch with you directly later today to process this refund. IN the meantime please accept my apologies for this error on our part.
Kind regards
Tim

OK, now what's happened here (to make things clear) is that I wasn't SE'd at Rizk anyway, but they auto-closed my account due to lack of verification in 72 hours. (see my original post I quoted). But I was at Guts.

So they are obviously trying hard to ensure that unlike the EM debacle they will be able to cross-reference players at the casinos under their license. So when it's all sorted, you wont have the EM SE-BS scenario and resulting complaints. Which is good and what you'd expect from a good casino group.

 

[mina1929]

Sorry to quote my own post. There were very few issues when Guts added Betspin to their license. It seems that the addition of Rizk has somehow caused problems, especially in integrating/cross-referencing info. At least they try, unlike casinos operating under the UK EM License who don't give a flying one.

I think this is relevant, as despite the problems in the thread here, it is clear they always endeavour to treat their players correctly: (Received today)

Dear Mr Rhino-loser,
it has come to our attention that during a recent batch UK ID verification routine, your account at Rizk was incorrectly re-opened during a Self Exclusion period and that you were able to access your account and furthermore deposit. This, of course, should not have happened and we are working to understand why this happened to your account and around 200 others. All accounts, yours included, have now been reset to their correct status however as you were able to make a deposit during this window then of course we will refund this and any/all fees associated.
Our customer services team will be in touch with you directly later today to process this refund. IN the meantime please accept my apologies for this error on our part.
Kind regards
Tim

OK, now what's happened here (to make things clear) is that I wasn't SE'd at Rizk anyway, but they auto-closed my account due to lack of verification in 72 hours. (see my original post I quoted). But I was at Guts.

So they are obviously trying hard to ensure that unlike the EM debacle they will be able to cross-reference players at the casinos under their license. So when it's all sorted, you wont have the EM SE-BS scenario and resulting complaints. Which is good and what you'd expect from a good casino group.

Dear Mr Rhino loser, love it

 

[vinylweatherman]

I don't know what you're trying to do here VWM. I thought you were a little smarter than that and I feel really disappointed.

You're saying that this group is lying about there being any Neteller fraud but they claim that to be able to profit from Card deposits.

These guys have proved to be honest and I belive them a 100%!!

I have actually raised this with Neteller VIP, and they are unaware of any problem, and see no reason for "anti Neteller" terms at casinos. Does this mean that Neteller VIP are lying to their VIP customers about the issue?

I was also told "this should not happen", and they asked me to send them examples of such anti-Neteller terms, and I sent them the one at Ladbrokes. Neteller are fully aware that I have raised this issue, and more than once.
Neteller even advertise casinos and their welcome bonus, so it makes no sense for Neteller users to see such an advert on Neteller, and then find that they can't deposit via Neteller in order to claim the offer. If Neteller are "unaware" of casinos banning Neteller deposits from the offers, they could be inadvertently breaking the law here in the UK through misleading advertising.

A 2.5% surcharge on debit card deposits IS "profiting", rather than "covering transaction costs", as debit card transactions are charged at a fixed amount, not a percentage of the transaction. CREDIT cards are a different matter, here the banks DO levy charges based on a percentage of the transaction.

It is also predatory behaviour to BOTH take the unusual step of charging a fee to players for debit card deposits, whilst at the same time allowing free deposits from a deposit method that actually costs the casino more, but from which they ban users from taking part in any casino promotions so as to steer them towards using debit cards, and then getting stung for 2.5% of the amount deposited.

At 32Red, which has had a bashing for adding pending periods and stopping weekend processing, there is NO CHARGE for depositing via debit card, not even for CREDIT cards. Not only that, Neteller deposits are not restricted from any of the promotions. If 32Red can offer free deposits and allow Neteller deposits for promotions, and still GROW it's profits year on year, other casinos should also be able to do the same.

I have been playing since 2004, and charges for making deposits isn't something I have experienced. I have, very rarely, come across charges for withdrawals. Intercasino used to charge a flat rate of £1 per withdrawal.

 

[spintee]

I have actually raised this with Neteller VIP, and they are unaware of any problem, and see no reason for "anti Neteller" terms at casinos. Does this mean that Neteller VIP are lying to their VIP customers about the issue?

I was also told "this should not happen", and they asked me to send them examples of such anti-Neteller terms, and I sent them the one at Ladbrokes. Neteller are fully aware that I have raised this issue, and more than once.
Neteller even advertise casinos and their welcome bonus, so it makes no sense for Neteller users to see such an advert on Neteller, and then find that they can't deposit via Neteller in order to claim the offer. If Neteller are "unaware" of casinos banning Neteller deposits from the offers, they could be inadvertently breaking the law here in the UK through misleading advertising.

A 2.5% surcharge on debit card deposits IS "profiting", rather than "covering transaction costs", as debit card transactions are charged at a fixed amount, not a percentage of the transaction. CREDIT cards are a different matter, here the banks DO levy charges based on a percentage of the transaction.

It is also predatory behaviour to BOTH take the unusual step of charging a fee to players for debit card deposits, whilst at the same time allowing free deposits from a deposit method that actually costs the casino more, but from which they ban users from taking part in any casino promotions so as to steer them towards using debit cards, and then getting stung for 2.5% of the amount deposited.

At 32Red, which has had a bashing for adding pending periods and stopping weekend processing, there is NO CHARGE for depositing via debit card, not even for CREDIT cards. Not only that, Neteller deposits are not restricted from any of the promotions. If 32Red can offer free deposits and allow Neteller deposits for promotions, and still GROW it's profits year on year, other casinos should also be able to do the same.

I have been playing since 2004, and charges for making deposits isn't something I have experienced. I have, very rarely, come across charges for withdrawals. Intercasino used to charge a flat rate of £1 per withdrawal.

It bloody does, they probably are not on commission but get paid to advertise the site & most probably a sign up, They couldnt care less if the casino accept there payment method, Skrill certainly did not want to know when one casino didnt offer me the offer skrill advertised? If they was that bothered why still have the same offer weeks later?

Yes it would make sense to advertise sites that accept there payment but just like any other site there making cash for advertisement, I would of thought that was a clear breath of false advertisement offering deals that do not exist yet still carry on doing it,

 

[colinsunderland]

See Yits hasn't been in today to answer any questions, thats a bit surprising considering how angry he was at some of the comments.

 

[PaaskeDenmark]

See Yits hasn't been in today to answer any questions, thats a bit surprising considering how angry he was at some of the comments.

Yes and I am still awaiting for him to get back to me from pm he sent Sunday stating would get update for me Monday. Now Tuesday gone and nothing. But yeah could be he is needing some time on that though I just realized he actually sent me pm on Sunday which is quite nice going out of his way in a weekend

 

[vinylweatherman]

It bloody does, they probably are not on commission but get paid to advertise the site & most probably a sign up, They couldnt care less if the casino accept there payment method, Skrill certainly did not want to know when one casino didnt offer me the offer skrill advertised? If they was that bothered why still have the same offer weeks later?

Yes it would make sense to advertise sites that accept there payment but just like any other site there making cash for advertisement, I would of thought that was a clear breath of false advertisement offering deals that do not exist yet still carry on doing it,

It does not make sense to blatantly disregard the law given that Neteller have to be authorised in the UK in order to give the service it does to UK customers. Besides, the ASA now polices the internet, so an advert on Neteller's site is just as regulated as one being shown on Channel 5 after 9pm.

The ASA may also go after the casinos in the advert, as they may regard Neteller as the publishing medium. If an ad on TV is misleading, the ASA will go after the company being promoted, not the TV channel operator showing it.

Being complaint driven, the ASA will only investigate an ad that someone has brought to it's attention. Getting a sanction from the ASA isn't going to do the casino any favours with the UKGC either.

 

[Tirilej]

I have actually raised this with Neteller VIP, and they are unaware of any problem, and see no reason for "anti Neteller" terms at casinos. Does this mean that Neteller VIP are lying to their VIP customers about the issue?

I was also told "this should not happen", and they asked me to send them examples of such anti-Neteller terms, and I sent them the one at Ladbrokes. Neteller are fully aware that I have raised this issue, and more than once.
Neteller even advertise casinos and their welcome bonus, so it makes no sense for Neteller users to see such an advert on Neteller, and then find that they can't deposit via Neteller in order to claim the offer. If Neteller are "unaware" of casinos banning Neteller deposits from the offers, they could be inadvertently breaking the law here in the UK through misleading advertising.

A 2.5% surcharge on debit card deposits IS "profiting", rather than "covering transaction costs", as debit card transactions are charged at a fixed amount, not a percentage of the transaction. CREDIT cards are a different matter, here the banks DO levy charges based on a percentage of the transaction.

It is also predatory behaviour to BOTH take the unusual step of charging a fee to players for debit card deposits, whilst at the same time allowing free deposits from a deposit method that actually costs the casino more, but from which they ban users from taking part in any casino promotions so as to steer them towards using debit cards, and then getting stung for 2.5% of the amount deposited.

At 32Red, which has had a bashing for adding pending periods and stopping weekend processing, there is NO CHARGE for depositing via debit card, not even for CREDIT cards. Not only that, Neteller deposits are not restricted from any of the promotions. If 32Red can offer free deposits and allow Neteller deposits for promotions, and still GROW it's profits year on year, other casinos should also be able to do the same.

I have been playing since 2004, and charges for making deposits isn't something I have experienced. I have, very rarely, come across charges for withdrawals. Intercasino used to charge a flat rate of £1 per withdrawal.

I don't think anyone at Neteller can discuss such matters as fraud with their customers, no matter how much a VIP that person is. That would be to admit they have a security problem and I doubt they will do that.

The fact that only UK are prevented from using Neteller speaks louder than words, so I say I rather believe the casinos in this.
They don't want to lose their customers. The easier it is for us to deposit the more money they'll get.

You are just speculating but are making it sounding like you know the truth. You're good at that

 

[spintee]

It does not make sense to blatantly disregard the law given that Neteller have to be authorised in the UK in order to give the service it does to UK customers. Besides, the ASA now polices the internet, so an advert on Neteller's site is just as regulated as one being shown on Channel 5 after 9pm.

The ASA may also go after the casinos in the advert, as they may regard Neteller as the publishing medium. If an ad on TV is misleading, the ASA will go after the company being promoted, not the TV channel operator showing it.

Being complaint driven, the ASA will only investigate an ad that someone has brought to it's attention. Getting a sanction from the ASA isn't going to do the casino any favours with the UKGC either.

I agree, I normally do with your statements

But the fact is they do blatantly disregard the law, Either that or they just not bothered what is advertised, & Like you said its not them that will get the boot but the casino it self, so again no affect to the advertiser, There still getting there fee's,

For instance skrill advertise 200% for a casino and you sign up but than told no offer exists ? Who will be in the wrong? or do you rekon they would just say it was a mistake?

 

[lena1967]

This pretty much proves that the old method of verifying ID wrongly excluded a large number of innocent players, many of whom obviously walked to a competitor rather than face the hassle of getting their accounts unblocked. That's a large number of lost customers, some of whom could have gone on to be profitable depositing customers. Quite a few casinos in the past must have lost a fortune in potential turnover as this has been the industry standard way of verifying players until quite recently.


As for the "we are a completely different company", it tends to fall on deaf ears now because so often players have been screwed over by what they believed was a "completely different company", only to have winnings confiscated due to an action at the "other completely different company". Cassava and EveryMatrix should be awarded some kind of trophy for the number of times their skins have been "completely independent companies" when players are depositing and losing, but then "sister sites" when they win and there is an opportunity to confiscate it.

I strongly agree with you.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I don't think anyone at Neteller can discuss such matters as fraud with their customers, no matter how much a VIP that person is. That would be to admit they have a security problem and I doubt they will do that.

The fact that only UK are prevented from using Neteller speaks louder than words, so I say I rather believe the casinos in this.
They don't want to lose their customers. The easier it is for us to deposit the more money they'll get.

You are just speculating but are making it sounding like you know the truth. You're good at that

Actually, a betting syndicate is not fraud, nor is it illegal. It only becomes fraud if deception is involved. The terms I have seen exclude Neteller deposits from the bonuses, and don't mention specific countries. Country based exclusions are often regardless of deposit method. I have seen the UK excluded, but also the Nordic countries seem to have been a hotbed of fraud as many casinos have excluded countries like Sweden, Finland, etc from welcome bonuses, so this isn't just a "UK thing". It's closer to the truth to say it's a "world thing", but it can come in surges from differing countries as one exploit is found, gets plugged, and then another opens up.

However, is it right to demonise ALL Brits because of the actions of a determined few, or for that matter, demonise all Finns, all Swedes, etc. It's probably down to laziness, easier to insult an entire nation than to tackle the few players that are causing the problems.

When it comes to actual fraud though, the country it appears to come from may not be the country it actually comes from, that is the whole point of setting up a fraud, it has to be hard to track down. With the EU freedom of movement and labour, it is very easy for any EU national to move their activities to another EU country if their activity is sufficiently profitable for this to be worth while. Maybe it's not UK nationals that are giving the casinos a thorough working over, but other EU nationals taking advantage of the fact that they can easily move to the UK, even if only virtually via something like a VPN, and benefit from the until recent liberal attitude to online gambling here as opposed to restrictions in many other EU countries.

Unfortunately, Neteller and Skrill have cornered the market, there is no alternative that offers the same hassle free experience. Cards are unreliable because of banks' ultra sensitive "automated suspicious transaction blocking". Voucher based methods are a pain because it means going down the shops to find one that has a Paypoint terminal, and staff that actually know how to sell a Paysafe voucher, which is pretty rare as most staff are used to using them to pay energy bills, top up cards, phones, etc. PayPal is just as good as Neteller, but it's not widely accepted even at UK licensed casinos.

One of the biggest problems of all is that ONLY Neteller can properly serve a high roller, the other methods will severely limit maximum deposits. The vouchers are limited to £100/£150, and many bank cards will flag and probably block casino transactions over £100 as "suspicious". Casinos could end up losing a lot of turnover from it's best players if they are forced into using cards or vouchers. Other casinos of course can snap up these players by not restricting Neteller.

It seems to me that the browser based casinos are far more likely to have such anti Neteller terms than the download client casinos like 32Red.

 

[Jono777]

Some places takes it all, both deposits and winnings, which was what MrSilver was claiming that Guts do.
They don't. All deposits will be paid back. It is suppose to be like the player never have been in. No loss - no winnings.

If all players just could stop self excluding from everywhere this problem would stop. If you don't have a gambling problem don't use that damn button!!

Well said!

Something I warned of years ago, but like my children no-one listened lol

 

[Guts - Yits]

brianmon - please, apply this to a separate betspin thread. I understand your feelings about it, but it doesn't apply to Guts.

Hope you understand.

In the general bonus terms (from the link at the bottom of the homepage) and also referenced in the current 4 days of promotions

View attachment 67569

If It is wrong then they've lost a few hundred pounds worth of deposits from me this week. Because I would have deposited on each of the 4 days.

Also Neteller deposits are free. If I use my debit card, they charge 2.5%

 

[Guts - Yits]

Hi Vinylweatherman - absolutely untrue. We want players to deposit with e-wallets if possible - faster, cheaper = happier customers and happier operators. Regarding fees for cards, this I have absolutely zero say in - I don't even know the costs, and how it all works. This is handled by a central operations team of our platform. If I wanted to have an influence upon it, I would not be able to do a thing about it personally.

Having said that, I have alerted all senior members of the staff who do decide on the matter of deposit fees, so that they are aware of disgruntlement - I also understand it's annoying. However, I also pay fees at some casinos I play at - I'm sorta used to it, but that's just me.

The allegations however that you present amount pure and simple to a conspiracy theory - we all fall into those trains of thought as we are human - but it's up to you to decide if you can or can't accept my statement. I have explained why betspin do this previously, and that is the true reason. Also, please take it up outside of a Guts thread going forward.

Hope you understand my position here.

They should not be charging for DEBIT cards, they have a fixed transaction fee, not a percentage like credit cards. This makes no sense because Neteller charge far more than debit cards, the casino is trying to steer players away from Neteller, so they make Neteller deposits free and hit debit card users with a significant charge. Effectively, they are charging 2.5% of your deposit for the privilege of having a bonus because you can't claim them with the method that lets you deposit for free.

The true test is whether someone manages to WITHDRAW after taking a bonus with Neteller. The problem isn't one of not being able to get the bonus, even at Casino Cruise. The problem is that the system will credit the bonus on a Neteller deposit even if it's not permitted to take that bonus.

Maybe it's also free to deposit with Paysafe, which is also Neteller, just a different one of their payment products.

 

[Guts - Yits]

Other thread, please. My most recent reply also answers your questions, by way of betspin - not Guts.

Neteller will absolutely not help us, under any circumstances - your statement is pure conjecture. But please move that convo elsewhere, respectfully.

They should tackle Neteller over this problem, not just abandon players. Neteller would do something about the problem if they felt casinos were taking it seriously enough to hit Neteller in the pocket. However, it seems casinos are not willing to fall out with Neteller, even though the problem is SO bad that ordinary players are getting hammered in the crossfire.

Of course, maybe it's not "fraud" at all, just casinos deciding that a perfectly ordinary activity is "fraud" in the same way that some say playing Blackjack well is "fraud", or that playing with the intention of winning is "fraud".


Maybe it's all a ruse to steer players away from Neteller and over to using debit cards, for which they can charge 2.5% of all deposits to cover their fixed 50p per transaction fee. This would be a "nice little earner" to actually make a tidy PROFIT from deposit fees charged to players, as opposed to eating the costs, or extracting only a partial recovery from the players. I doubt Neteller is free either, but casinos are still prepared to eat the Neteller deposit fees DESPITE the fact that they get all this "fraud" via Neteller, and Neteller sees no reason to address it.