FOBTS Stake Reduction

[steveh35]

ITV Yorkshire Calendar just interviewed a former gambling addict who has praised the reduction and now wants to turn his attention to online casinos.

You have been warned all those praising this move today will you be praising it when it's online casinos turn somehow I don't think a lot of people on Casinomeister will appreciate having their online gambling play blocked, we know how frustrating the current rules are with autoplay disabled on WMS and having to fill in the autoplay on NetEnt.

 

[colinsunderland]

ITV Yorkshire Calendar just interviewed a former gambling addict who has praised the reduction and now wants to turn his attention to online casinos.

You have been warned all those praising this move today will you be praising it when it's online casinos turn somehow I don't think a lot of people on Casinomeister will appreciate having their online gambling play blocked, we know how frustrating the current rules are with autoplay disabled on WMS and having to fill in the autoplay on NetEnt.

I agree. I'm not sure why the hate towards them on a forum filled with gamblers. Not that I like them, I never play them, well except when Coral have an offer on where you pretty much can't lose, but you can lose thousands on one spin online in a few seconds, why the hatred towards a £100 spin? I can do 10 x £100 spins on a netent slot using quickspin in the time it takes for a round of roulette on a FOTB.

 

[steveh35]

I agree. I'm not sure why the hate towards them on a forum filled with gamblers. Not that I like them, I never play them, well except when Coral have an offer on where you pretty much can't lose, but you can lose thousands on one spin online in a few seconds, why the hatred towards a £100 spin? I can do 10 x £100 spins on a netent slot using quickspin in the time it takes for a round of roulette on a FOTB.

Exactly can you imagine if they start on the online and people cannot bet their £4 on Bonanza or Rhino, it seems people are far too happy for bookies to suffer as they don't use them but when it starts affecting their fun online suddenly they won't like it. Smirk and praise the FOBT reduction all you like but don't moan when they come after your fun.

 

[mack341]

I agree. I'm not sure why the hate towards them on a forum filled with gamblers. Not that I like them, I never play them, well except when Coral have an offer on where you pretty much can't lose, but you can lose thousands on one spin online in a few seconds, why the hatred towards a £100 spin? I can do 10 x £100 spins on a netent slot using quickspin in the time it takes for a round of roulette on a FOTB.

yep it is inconsistent to allow the high stakes online but to ban them in the high street for responsible gambling reasons; I don't like the way the bookies have been so snide in their efforts to exploit loopholes to get as many machines in an area as possible [almost all being poor areas too with high unemployment]. On a side note, as our currency devalues due to inflation, £2 buys you less each year, will these stakes have to be increased in time to maintain their current value.

 

[dealer wins]

Bet the B&M casino managements around the UK are popping open the bubbly tonight!!

I understand that FOBTs can cause problems for addicts, but so can off licences, drug dealers and even fast food outlets. Not only that you can throw huge bets on racing, sports, virtual racing etc etc every 2 mins in a bookie if you wanted to, but thats ok? Where does one draw the line, or are we slowly heading towards a "Demolition Man" senario?

 

[steveh35]

Bet the B&M casino managements around the UK are popping open the bubbly tonight!!

I understand that FOBTs can cause problems for addicts, but so can off licences, drug dealers and even fast food outlets. Not only that you can throw huge bets on racing, sports, virtual racing etc etc every 2 mins in a bookie if you wanted to, but thats ok? Where does one draw the line, or are we slowly heading towards a "Demolition Man" senario?

The campaigners now turn their attention to online because now they have got their victory they will feel the momentum is with them and tv ads will be next.

 

[mack341]

Bet the B&M casino managements around the UK are popping open the bubbly tonight!!

I understand that FOBTs can cause problems for addicts, but so can off licences, drug dealers and even fast food outlets. Not only that you can throw huge bets on racing, sports, virtual racing etc etc every 2 mins in a bookie if you wanted to, but thats ok? Where does one draw the line, or are we slowly heading towards a "Demolition Man" senario?

Is that the film, I haven't seen it any good? I like futuristic type films with dystopian themes.

 

[bigbear]

On the BBC News tonight the reporter who was delivering the story mentioned that around a third of the total spend on gambling now takes place on line and he finished his report with words to the effect that 'the spotlight will now fall on the digital world'.You can bet your bottom dollar that the Government's next target will be online casinos.

 

[JuJuJudith]

No doubt this is good news. Although for what I know the limit is not on yet, isn't it? They have to vote it in 2019, I read.

 

[J9rdiib]

I personally think the next high priority should be to ban all gambling related adverts on tv until 9pm. It’s pretty horrible for problem gambling’s who are trying to sort their lives out by closing and self excluding all accounts but then are forced to sit and watch endlesss casino adverts in order to watch their favourite tv shows!

Not to mention it’s not something kids/teenagers should be exposed to, there were no casino adverts when I was a kid and it still turned out to be a problem for me when I was 22, can’t imagine how bad it would have been if I was exposed to it younger.

 

[slotter999]

Suppose they did limit online to £2 a spin. What would be wrong with that? No doubt they will look at the figures but my guess is that a small percentage of overall bets would be higher than £2. The ability to bet higher and higher is almost certainly a gateway to problem gambling in my opinion.

 

[catapultaudio]

Absolutely cannot believe the reaction to this here... I don't play these machines often and when i do its low stakes blackjack with the occasional bit of slots, but I can't for the life of me understand why you all feel people must be protected from themselves should they choose to walk into the bookies, yet online the same should not apply?

The government had the chance to do something good here - had they limited the stakes to say, £20-£30 for casino games, and £5 for slots, THAT would have helped those who are losing too much money on these machines - as it stands, everyone I know who likes to play roulette on these machines can no longer do so in the manner which they like/enjoy - that is, to cover a sizeable portion of the board with chips. With just 10 x 20p chips, they can no longer do this. Even if the bookies allow 5p/10p chips now, its not going to be very exciting is it only having 5p on each number for an earth shattering win of £1.80 ... ?? So now these players will move online where they can bet as much as they like.

Not to mention the fact that now this precedent has been set, those who campaigned for this draconian nanny state BS regulation will move on to pressuring the UKGC and the like for similar limits at online casinos, and just like in the shops the difference between slots and table games will likely be ignored. How many of you want to play blackjack at a maximum of £2 per hand? Even for slots I know many players here will often throw a few "wildcard" spins out there at £5 or more per spin just for the occasional shot at a lucky feature hit.

Sure, it's not good that problem gamblers are losing their shirt to these machines but the bookies are absolutely right to say nobody in their right mind is going to want to endure through the mind-numbing sluggishness already forced on these machines for such tiny stakes. Drives me crazy having to watch the money count up over and over playing blackjack as it is - each hand counts up seperately before the subtotal counts across to your balance, all of which is unskippable. Likewise being forced to watch the animation of the roulette wheel every spin for no good reason whatsoever ...

So yeah, congrats folks for moving this problem online via the privacy of peoples homes, where they will now continue to lose even greater sums of money. Lets not forget many players physically push notes into FOBTs - its so much easier to lose control when your just hitting "quick deposit" every five minutes and never seeing/touching the cash. Also, in the bookies you could get your winnings immediately should you wish - now there's potentially days of waiting with the temptation of the reverse button constantly available.

This is NOT something we should be celebrating!

 

[catapultaudio]

Best news ever. Never played one of these machines but frequently speak to those who have had their lives messed up by them. Should have happened years ago

But you play online nicola yes? What about those who have messed up their lives playing the online casinos? Should they be forced out of business too to protect the few who can't control their own behaviour? It says you are also an affiliate, so you promote online gambling too... do you not feel in anyway hypocritical and contradictory in calling this the "best news ever" .... ??? Unless you are looking forward to increased revenues from your online gaming promotional work, which would of course be logical and perhaps even good reason to celebrate today!

Suppose they did limit online to £2 a spin. What would be wrong with that? No doubt they will look at the figures but my guess is that a small percentage of overall bets would be higher than £2. The ability to bet higher and higher is almost certainly a gateway to problem gambling in my opinion.

What would be wrong with it is that it is taking away peoples freedom to use their own hard earned money as they wish! Absolutely, you can be sure that lower stakes spins outnumber those of £2 and above by a factor of at least 5:1, but that still means there are many thousands of people who enjoy playing for higher stakes as well as all those who just like to throw a few big spins out there at the end of a session to see if the scatter gods would like to be kind to them!

Also, the limits on FOBTs have been set without consideration for the many different types of game available on these machines. It's outrageous that people with such obvious lack of knowledge of gaming are allowed to decide what is and is not acceptable in this way. If the same rule were applied in the same way to online casinos then we'd all be restricted to just £2 a hand/spin for blackjack and roulette as well as slots, which is clearly ridiculous. Maybe they'll even outlaw poker tournaments with a buy in of more than £2 as well, that would be just fantastic wouldn't it?!

 

[shadow123]

I applaude the regulators for doing the right thing in this case,FOBTs are causing a real problem, social as well as financial.
By making roulette play on them unviable (probably by accident rather than intent),it will help a lot of gamblers who will
in the long run actually be grateful,getting home at the end of the week with their wages intact.
It really should never have got to this state, bookies and game suppliers pushing the limits of the law to achieve
stupid stakes and happily benifit from the misery of those who really cannot afford to lose silly amounts week after week.
Unfortunately online gambling is almost certain to be the next target, the wrong target I think as the situation is totally
different but I do think the FOBT decision was a good one

 

[Webzcas]

I have put together a piece on my thoughts regarding the announcement last Thursday which can be read here

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- where you can also watch me walk round my town, seeing how many of these shops there are.

In short, I believe it is a good thing. Saying that, no doubt affiliates will end up covering the costs....

 

[AC7X]

Is that the film, I haven't seen it any good? I like futuristic type films with dystopian themes.

Yeah it's a classic! As for dystopian - yeah it is, but not the typical kind. Watch it.

 

[mack341]

Yeah it's a classic! As for dystopian - yeah it is, but not the typical kind. Watch it.

I don't know why but your username AC7X had my mind scrambling to remember another of these type of movies which I use to see on the shelf in the video rental shop but never watched it: THX 1138 by george lucas.

 

[dunover]

Absolutely cannot believe the reaction to this here... I don't play these machines often and when i do its low stakes blackjack with the occasional bit of slots, but I can't for the life of me understand why you all feel people must be protected from themselves should they choose to walk into the bookies, yet online the same should not apply?

The government had the chance to do something good here - had they limited the stakes to say, £20-£30 for casino games, and £5 for slots, THAT would have helped those who are losing too much money on these machines - as it stands, everyone I know who likes to play roulette on these machines can no longer do so in the manner which they like/enjoy - that is, to cover a sizeable portion of the board with chips. With just 10 x 20p chips, they can no longer do this. Even if the bookies allow 5p/10p chips now, its not going to be very exciting is it only having 5p on each number for an earth shattering win of £1.80 ... ?? So now these players will move online where they can bet as much as they like.

Not to mention the fact that now this precedent has been set, those who campaigned for this draconian nanny state BS regulation will move on to pressuring the UKGC and the like for similar limits at online casinos, and just like in the shops the difference between slots and table games will likely be ignored. How many of you want to play blackjack at a maximum of £2 per hand? Even for slots I know many players here will often throw a few "wildcard" spins out there at £5 or more per spin just for the occasional shot at a lucky feature hit.

Sure, it's not good that problem gamblers are losing their shirt to these machines but the bookies are absolutely right to say nobody in their right mind is going to want to endure through the mind-numbing sluggishness already forced on these machines for such tiny stakes. Drives me crazy having to watch the money count up over and over playing blackjack as it is - each hand counts up seperately before the subtotal counts across to your balance, all of which is unskippable. Likewise being forced to watch the animation of the roulette wheel every spin for no good reason whatsoever ...

So yeah, congrats folks for moving this problem online via the privacy of peoples homes, where they will now continue to lose even greater sums of money. Lets not forget many players physically push notes into FOBTs - its so much easier to lose control when your just hitting "quick deposit" every five minutes and never seeing/touching the cash. Also, in the bookies you could get your winnings immediately should you wish - now there's potentially days of waiting with the temptation of the reverse button constantly available.

This is NOT something we should be celebrating!

Well, betting against themselves in the fashion you mentioned just demonstrates why these players need protecting from £100 spins and possibly from themselves.

Secondly, bookmaker's shops were originally licensed and permitted as places "which accept wagers on the predicted results of physical events of which the outcome is not decided by the bookmaker" NOT licensed to be High Street casinos!

Lastly, your knowledge of problem gambling is clearly minimal as indicated where you state "congrats folks for moving this problem online via the privacy of peoples homes, where they will now continue to lose even greater sums of money. Lets not forget many players physically push notes into FOBTs - its so much easier to lose control when your just hitting "quick deposit" every five minutes and never seeing/touching the cash."

I suggest you read the Gamcare forum where a large percentage of respondents have stated in various ways that they lose the sense of value of money, keep visiting the bank/ATM and feeding more notes in until they are broke - what I am stating here is that a problem, tilting gambler will spend to destruction whether they see the notes or not, whether it's a credit or debit card or even if they are stripping their jewellery off and feeding it into the bloody slot. It makes no difference when they are in the zone and temporarily divorced from reality what the means of purchase is.

As for reversal, yes that is a point at many online casinos but a TAB can resolve any temptation until paid.

 

[goatwack]

The UKGC are trying to fight on two fronts, but it's quite apparent that they can never have a universal set of rules for all things gambling- related.

Online will continue to be porous with high bet limits, quick spins and gamble features (but fear not, we have the 100 autospins limit) and continue to get overlooked, whilst obvious B&M outlets will bear the brunt of being made scapegoats, so as to mask the UKGC's inefficiencies and glaring hypocrisy

 

[pinnit2014]

I was at the local machines today bemoaning the fact I was 30 quid down on those awful 10p slots. Now considering that’s my average amount for a 20p Bonanza bonus Online you can lose all semblance of the value of money; it’s just a series of numbers but handing that last 10 quid note over for quid coins really took effort

 

[mack341]

I was at the local machines today bemoaning the fact I was 30 quid down on those awful 10p slots. Now considering that’s my average amount for a 20p Bonanza bonus Online you can lose all semblance of the value of money; it’s just a series of numbers but handing that last 10 quid note over for quid coins really took effort

Yeah I do get this, losing physical money probably hurts more psychologically as the stark reality is there, however, are you then more vulnerable to chasing to try and recover the lost money?

In my opinion the bookmakers should never have been allowed to offer roulette and table games which is where most of the damage is done.

The UKGC are introducing these changes to stake sizes [basically admitting along with the government that the current setup is irresponsible] and I suppose its better later than never however I can't help feeling for all the people who have lost so much and were not protected. UKGC didn't need einstein levels of intelligence to see the problems years ago, so why didn't they act?

I think the distinction between online casinos and the high street bookmakers, is the sense in which they were seen to be preying on the poor and ill educated.
And these new responsible gambling checks the UKGC are requiring the casinos to carry out, though a royal pain in the arse for the majority, could protect those people who are again at significant risk with online gambling.

 

[snorky510238]

Will kill off the roulette for sure, when the machines first came out in Corals years ago,no one played, as soon
they put roulette on,you could not get on a machine all day.Cant see anyone playing it for pennies now.
Will be interesting to see how the operators will adapt to the new stakes, I would guess they might just
be lazy and screw the rtp down to sub 90 levels, hoping to make up for some of the losses.
I remember how dire the bookie awps were,think we might end up there again.

They have been way below that for years that's why the list of self exclusions from betting shops is longer than you arm.Yes at long last somethings been done. Just took ten years longer than it should have. Providers have been getting away with proverbial murder with those evil rigged heaps of s*^t. I am still not sure that goes far enough. I mean the vast majority of their slot players play £1 tops so no change there. The one thing it will kill is the high roller roulette player. I really don't think they will be as interested (if at all). I mean if I could only play a slot for 2p I would give it up. It serves Providers and bookmakers right if they had genuinely given punters a fair crack of the whip and paid out a decent % all those employees would still have jobs and some of us wouldn't have lost friends. Perhaps they knew from the outset they would be on borrowed time so made hay while the sun shone. Unfortunately like Balthazar said some people are so addicted they will blow their last penny anyway and they tend to be the people who can least afford it.At least it's a step in the right direction.

 

[mack341]

I suspect some of the gamblers who lost thousands on the roulette/table games will actually be annoyed about the stake change, thinking that it has prevented them from winning their money back.

 

[snorky510238]

I suspect some of the gamblers who lost thousands on the roulette/table games will actually be annoyed about the stake change, thinking that it has prevented them from winning their money back.

There would never be any danger of that FOBTS are terribly rigged. They should infact be celebrating the fact it will stop them throwing more into the bottomless pit. With the point of these punters moving online instead let's not forget SOW is now becoming a big issue and in betting shops this was never an issue. A lot of laundering went on via FOBTS these punters shouldn't find it as easy online if things are being done properly. You also have the fact that a hell of a lot of these people were getting into massive financial melt down without their families finding out until it was to late. Those people wouldn't find it as easy online to hide all the necessary criteria. I am not saying it won't happen but it's not the same as driving past a betting shop on the way home from work with a few quid in their pocket and then having to tell their partner some elaborate story of where the shopping money went.

 

[mack341]

You're right they should be, probably most will be thankful. I suppose some might have been using for roulette a system of betting on certain numbers and felt they were due to land. Yes, if this SOW linked to responsible gambling continues as a mass roll out across all casinos then they will find it pointless to beg borrow and steal to gamble online.

Even though I am a low roller I certainly don't exclude myself at being at risk of large financial lost via online slots [ I don't touch roulette or table games ] and its chasing the incurred losses from playing dead slots that causes me real problems.

And this also relates to how 'fair' the games seem to play, in my opinion requiring some 8,000+ uninterrupted spins to trigger a bonus as happened to me on bonanza is irresponsible game design, and increases the likelihood of problems.

The bonus frquency on extra chilli is much better but awards 2/3 of the spins and then you feel forced to use the gamble wheel, which is awful.