FOBTS are still at it

[trancemonkey]

@snorky510238 Why do you think the RTP is low in bookies? I'll give you a clue, its nothing to do with the games providers wanting to rip players off...

 

[Jono777]

@snorky510238 Why do you think the RTP is low in bookies? I'll give you a clue, its nothing to do with the games providers wanting to rip players off...

Post #2, towards the end?? (or am I way off, again )

 

[snorky510238]

@snorky510238 Why do you think the RTP is low in bookies? I'll give you a clue, its nothing to do with the games providers wanting to rip players off...

The category of games I suppose but when they have games like raging rhino it tells me that game must be gimped. You can play at £2 a spin for instance but can’t win more than £500 so explain that for example.

 

[slotmaster]

Actually this has nothing to do with it... They still have to comply with the UKGC technical standards regardless of where they are based. That's more for tax reasons...

This is it, All about the taxes or lack thereof.

 

[goatwack]

If the RTP is at stupendously low levels then it certainly is a polite way of ripping players off.

Unless this falls under the 'It's legal' umbrella

 

[trancemonkey]

If the RTP is at stupendously low levels then it certainly is a polite way of ripping players off.

Unless this falls under the 'It's legal' umbrella

Well there is no minimum RTP in the UK. One of the few places in the world not to have one... i can't argue that's a good thing in any way

 

[trancemonkey]

Post #2, towards the end?? (or am I way off, again )

Tax is a part of it. The other issue is likely shareholders... When the amount of money being played through the machines stops rising, the only way to make more money is to lower the RTP. And what do shareholders demand every year? More profit...

This is of course counter productive as you get a small increase but eventually you get a decrease as the players notice the games are worse or their money doesn't last as long. And then they lower the RTP again... Repeat an infinitum.

And as the bookies can't lower the RTP on roulette (most played game) as it's mathematically fixed (and no they don't rig the games) this is why you now have various types of other roulette games all running much lower than 97.2%.

This is the same reason pub fruit machines are on 78% or lower most of the time...

 

[trancemonkey]

The category of games I suppose but when they have games like raging rhino it tells me that game must be gimped. You can play at £2 a spin for instance but can’t win more than £500 so explain that for example.

Well if by gimped you mean having special maths for the UK market then yes they are. I'd call it localised rather than gimped...

 

[slotter999]

Yes I see what you meant about the amounts it’s possible to lose FOBTS v online. Like I said if there is a lot of things that need changing/looking at more in depth but listing them all is pointless as it’s all hypothetical. Just out of interest what would be your guesstimate on the number of self excluded players at a bookmakers v casinos percentage wise. As regards the random part you are right I will never change my mind.

The statistics only quote the overall number or self excluded gamblers which is 6% of all gamblers. These are figures for the UK. I imagine self exclusion is used more online than in bookies and casinos just because it's easier. Two clicks and you're done which is a good thing.

I suppose the thing I find curious about your very specific post about FOBTs is you seem to distinguish one form of fixed odds from another when they are the same thing with differing variables.

If I did replay your points correctly then I think they are quite sensible.

 

[slotter999]

If the RTP is at stupendously low levels then it certainly is a polite way of ripping players off.

Unless this falls under the 'It's legal' umbrella

What do you define as stupendously low? It's always a little different for different people. And if you know the RTP and still choose to play...can that be considered ripping players off?

 

[dunover]

Well there is no minimum RTP in the UK. One of the few places in the world not to have one... i can't argue that's a good thing in any way

There is on the AWP's. Or used to be.

 

[k6kaysix]

You will already notice on some new slots, I think mainly in William Hill at the moment that they are already preparing for the cut by introducing ‘fortune spins’ in between the 20p - £2 stakes

For example you can play 20p or instead 30p-40p ‘fortune spins’ with enhanced bonus symbols or whatever...but a lower pay table!

The Centurion Raging Rhino style game is an example but they’re becoming more and more common

 

[Jono777]

There is on the AWP's. Or used to be.

Indeed there was, think minimum was 78% or thereabouts. It also had to be displayed on the cabinet to actually tell the player boldly that they're being ripped off!

 

[snorky510238]

Well if by gimped you mean having special maths for the UK market then yes they are. I'd call it localised rather than gimped...

That’s a very polite way of putting it. Is “special maths” the type where 2+2=5 or is it a class for retarded slot players?.

 

[trancemonkey]

That’s a very polite way of putting it. Is “special maths” the type where 2+2=5 or is it a class for retarded slot players?.

It's not a polite way of putting it, it's a factually correct way of putting it...
When doing games for VLT markets, you have to cater the maths to the regulations of that market. That can mean things like max bet, max prize, max volatility, etc...
I know you think that having different maths automatically means rigged, but that's a very narrow and misguided view i'm afraid...

 

[trancemonkey]

There is on the AWP's. Or used to be.

Correct, it used to be 78% i believe... however, when the 2005 gambling act came in to force, all minimum RTP requirements were removed.

 

[shadow123]

Dont know if they still use them but I think the rtp keys fitted to fruits didnt go below 78%

 

[trancemonkey]

Dont know if they still use them but I think the rtp keys fitted to fruits didnt go below 78%

I think most use DIL switches now - not seen keys in a long time. There are some spoons in Brum on 72%...

 

[Gaz237]

Our local village pub, who own their fruit machine have it set at 75%.

So no one plays it.

Told them to turn it up and more people will play it and they will make more money, but they don't seem to understand that

 

[lotusch]

I just have read through most of this topic and I cannot believe that people spend that kind of money on these FOBTS.
I have seen some videos on YT from a guy that is recording all his sessions when he is playing these and mostly he plays Rainbow Riches.
It is a joke the amount he sometimes spends to hit that £500.00 max pay.
And that £500.00 is the max pay on each and every stake I assume?
These would defo not interest me.

In The Netherlands I used to play in b&m's prior to online gambling and at least the modern slots had no max payout.
You could win a Jackpot, and another one in the very next spin without the machine cashing out prior to that.
Some slots in The Netherlands now have a Jackpot of 8000x and even 10000x and one coin is mostly €0.20 so this makes a hit of €1600 / €2000 in one spin possible.
At least you know where your money goes if the machine is cold.

In Ireland we have a lot of the Novomatic Multigame Cabinets and a few times I have asked what the RTP settings are on them.
Most staff in the b&m's here have no clue what you are talking about but I asked a manager once, couple of months ago when I was in a b&m for a wee session and he said the ones over here in my area are all set to just over 80% mainly also because most casinos here have 1 or 2 jackpots linked to their machines which obviously takes a few % out of the machines RTP.

I like a wee session in a local b&m sometimes but I never win big really, maybe because of this modest RTP.
Lucky Lady Charm and Book of Ra have never ever given me more than 1 retrigger for example while online it happens constantly for me, 45-60-up to 135 free spins I have had.
Think biggest win I ever had on a Novo Slot locally here was 150x on €1.00 bet.

 

[TheAddict]

I think most use DIL switches now - not seen keys in a long time. There are some spoons in Brum on 72%...

72 in a spoons? Feck me. I thought that they didnt do that/ or werent allowed. I remember playing a game in a spoons while an engineer came in to change the percentage, said he needs to turn it up it was accidently running 76 when it should be 78 as the sticker advertised. Was 80 into it but let the fooker do what he said he was gonna do cause i was in a kind mood. Made £35 in the end.
Most pubs i go to are 74 76, all spoons i go to show 78. Get the odd shit hole supplied by skank companies on 72 though

 

[trancemonkey]

Oddly, went in today and it had been replaced by a Storm Games machine... on 78% i think...

 

[shadow123]

Dont think a lot of players realize how bad these rtp,s are and the effect of playing at that kind of level.
I used to design machines for Barry Nobles and they used to run 25p machines at 92%,and they made
plenty of money at that level.Operating a £2 machine at sub 90% is not a sustainable business model
unless there is only passing trade

 

[snorky510238]

Dont think a lot of players realize how bad these rtp,s are and the effect of playing at that kind of level.
I used to design machines for Barry Nobles and they used to run 25p machines at 92%,and they made
plenty of money at that level.Operating a £2 machine at sub 90% is not a sustainable business model
unless there is only passing trade

You wouldn’t believe how uneducated and care free most of them are to begin with. You hardly ever see anyone checking the rtp. They just assume it’s a slot it must payout. It’s only when they have lost a couple of grand that they question anything. I have seen some horrendous occurrences on these things. One if not the worst was a guy doing £100 a spin on roulette leaving 5 numbers blank. One of the blank numbers was 6. He had 5 spins and 4 of them landed in 6. There are hundreds more like it but you could go on forever. Not even the remotest chance they are random.