Corona virus - Covid 19 discussion

[dealer wins]

I guess over the coming months he will be proved right or wrong, I hope and pray he is wrong, I genuinely do.

 

[sufferinsilence]

I'm not sciency enough and he doesn't really explain it that well for regular folks. Just that he's very worried about escape artists.

Weirdly enough I was reading an interview this morning with another scientist who said that we could aswell get escape variants even if enough people are vaccinated and that it has to be kept under surveillance no matter what. But the more people vaccinated the less tranmission there is, an Israelian study of the Pfizer vaccine says transmission is down to 25% when you are vaccinated. Mutants are born when a virus is replicated by infected cells and there happens to be an error in the process, an A instead of a B in the RNA and you can already call it a mutation. A virus itself won't do shit.

My guess is that it's a general worry amongst world renowned virologists.

 

[ESCJAMIE]

View attachment 152135 If you are over 60 or have serious health issues, may be worth taking the vaccine. But if not, the vaccine has more chance of killing you than covid, and thats without the potential long term unknown problems that may or may not come to light.

Remember, we once hailed radium as a miracle health cure, and scientists were said cigarettes cured asthma lol

Now show us the percentages with life-lasting debilitating side-affects, lung-scarring etc.

This Virus does not have to kill you for it to ruin your life.

 

[cncas2123]

Am booked in for my first jab next Monday.

More and more countries are suspending the jab, due to possible links to blood clotting.

Been thnking about it all day and just can't make my mind up weather to cancel (delay) it?.

I personally don’t think that there is a connection between the clots and the AZ vaccine. I think that it’s around 40 cases in 17,000,000 doses administered, and the basic make up of the vaccine is virtually the same as the Pfizer vaccine and they aren’t linking any clots to that.
I also understand that there isn’t any significant rise in the number of people reporting clots now compared to previous years.
The only way to prove a link is by trial and study , but I honestly think if there is a link there is so little chance of it giving you a clot ( 1 in 400,000) that it’s wiser to take it than not to.

 

[cncas2123]

Interesting reading.

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[ESCJAMIE]

Interesting reading.

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I think Its more to do with the fact they can now use this and turn it round to there people and say this is the reason why there's such a slow rollout , Nothing more than political move this.

 

[gonzo fonso]

well im 52,i got my sms to book the jab on saturday,last night at 10,30pm i got another sms reminder to book for the jab,with whats going on in the news atm yes its making me more anxious and nervous than i usually am,its a very serious issue with peoples health,i mean these countries just suspending the use of the oxford vaccine for how long will they do that ? all these headlines will just put people off taking it and im one of them

 

[geordiecolin]

Well having worked throughout this utter nonsense and seen the harm done.

there is no justification to contiinie this, let the obese and ones with issues Sheild.

the rest must continue, the so called vaccine I’ll not be taking, never had a issue before so ill take my chances.

Can anybody direct me to the posts that this user was banned for repeated flaming please?

 

[The Dude]

Can anybody direct me to the posts that this user was banned for repeated flaming please?

Not needed - this was a member who had been previously banned for flaming.

 

[geordiecolin]

Not needed - this was a member who had been previously banned for flaming.

Sorry for sticking my nose in but I just thought it highly unusual

 

[pinnit2014]

I thought i smelt the whiff of Corona cooking

Or saturated fats

 

[dunover]

Had my Astra Zeneca vaccine part 1 the other day, no side effects aside from my left arm hurting like a bastard for 36 hours afterwards around where the needle went in, although the jab itself was painless, didn't realize it was done, and the nurse was quite fit too.

EDIT - I checked after a shower this morning, and think I'm growing a second scrotum, I'll keep you updated....

 

[Kroffe]

Scrotum updates...hmm.

 

[dealer wins]

yes that is true and there was something about using plasma that could also increase risks of mutations, but then the next day the papers say something else, har

Possibly, he has worked with the gates' foundation, it could be his idea of NK killer cell based vaccines, which according to him boost the innate immune system, are the future. He said his ideas were 20 years advanced, two decades early and the scientific consensus isn't there yet, but in his view we've reached as far as we can with antibody based vaccines.

He's belgian too so you should give him a bit of support I guess he's from the flemish dutch speaking side?

There is some real world evidence that leaky vaccines can make a virus become more and more deadly.

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[mack341]

There is some real world evidence that leaky vaccines can make a virus become more and more deadly.

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I did read a similar article last week, it is very worrying as basically any formerly minor illness could become deadly, the illness chicken's get was never much of a problem in the 1950s, but ever since mass vaccination (with a leaky vaccine), any sign of it now and they have to destroy the whole flock iirc

And Geert vanden bossche said his primary expertise was originally in the veterinary sector, so he must be thinking about it, especially if we get the science wrong now with covid.

I suppose the fact that there are several different vax's might be better for the herd protection, I shan't be getting one as I feel it's gambling with your immune system, the outcome cannot be guaranteed, well at least until a few years have passed. Also the govts, media and big pharma have worked to suppress the use and fair valuation of therapeutic treatments, like invermectin, so lose trust on that score from me too.

If I was older or felt more vulnerable to covid, I might feel differently about it, the choice between an early visit from the grim reaper or a brand new jab, I can see why people want to have it, when it's seen in that way.

 

[colinsunderland]

There is some real world evidence that leaky vaccines can make a virus become more and more deadly.

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Did you link to the wrong article, or just not bother reading past the headline?

All of this is consistent with the imperfect vaccine hypothesis. It doesn’t prove that imperfect vaccines drove the evolution of today’s extra-virulent strains, “and we may never know for sure why those evolved in the first place,” Read writes.

 

[mack341]

I got it wrong about the EMA giving the results of their findings today, according to the bbc it will happen this thursday.

"We expect some kind of verdict from the European scientific community by Thursday afternoon, allowing us to resume the campaign," French Health minister Olivier Véran said on Tuesday.

"There were a few very unusual and troubling cases which justify this pause and the analysis," French immunologist Alain Fischer, who heads a government advisory board, told France Inter radio. "It's not lost time."

In Germany, the health ministry also pointed to a small number of rare blood clots in vaccinated people when justifying its decision. It has postponed a summit on extending the vaccine rollout ahead of the EMA's expected announcement on Thursday.


The american doctor who died a few weeks back after getting a covid vaccine developed a condition where he had zero blood platelets, so I think it's the strangeness/unusualness of the conditions that is the worry, not a comparison with the number of standard blood clots that can arise any time.

 

[electronictonic]

Interesting findings regarding alternative known safe treatments.

Dr John Campbell MD (huge DailyKos following) interviewed researcher Dr Tess Lawrie MD on her meta-review of Ivermectin studies. One conclusion: Very Safe. Ivermectin, over 40 years, billions doses, mere 16 deaths. By contrast Remdesivir in 1 year already has 417 deaths reported

 

[mack341]

Interesting findings regarding alternative known safe treatments.

Dr John Campbell MD (huge DailyKos following) interviewed researcher Dr Tess Lawrie MD on her meta-review of Ivermectin studies. One conclusion: Very Safe. Ivermectin, over 40 years, billions doses, mere 16 deaths. By contrast Remdesivir in 1 year already has 417 deaths reported

I can't see why doctors cannot prescribe it if they so wish and the patient consents, makes me bloody suspicious the way the establishment authorities react to what could save many lives. I think that lady wrote to hancock in January and still hasn't had a reply, it's not right when a respected expert in drugs research writes to the health ministrer/dept who then just ignores them.

I did read Ivermectin was being trialled [may have been in the rep of ireland] but it was going to be given to ICU patients, thus guaranteeing in my eyes it will fail the 'save lives test' as it needs to be given far earlier before the virus takes hold and the person needs the ICU. So that is the kind of trick the pharma people/researchers can use, badly set up trials, also give it to the worse/frail patients who're unlikely to recover.

Like HCQ it is a pretty safe medicine compared to others, so the chance of harm when most patients in the uk are receiving no therapeutic agents early, seems low to me, what have we got to lose...unless it may make the vaccines less central as the solution

 

[geordiecolin]

I can not get past the fact that there are about 7,874,965,000 in the world. If you do not remove those who died with other morbidities the amount who are said to have died of covid is 2.76 million. That equates to about 0.03% of the world population that has died in 1 year from this "Pandemic"
I would rather take those odds over the vaccine

 

[Kroffe]

Of the 85+ million vaccinated, how many % of deaths have been confirmed to have been caused by the vaccine?
Is it higher than 0.03%?

 

[geordiecolin]

Of the 85+ million vaccinated, how many % of deaths have been confirmed to have been caused by the vaccine?
Is it higher than 0.03%?

Not one single solitary sole has officially died from taking the vaccine which I find fabulous

 

[dealer wins]

Not one single solitary sole has officially died from taking the vaccine which I find fabulous

Its amazing, and the band were playing believe it if you like in the background.

 

[Kroffe]

Not one single solitary sole has officially died from taking the vaccine which I find fabulous

I just think if going by odds, choosing the less likely seems like a smart move.

1 in 3 333 or 0.03% is pretty damn high.
If you think 1 in 3 333 would never happen, you should see the odds on getting a good hit on the slots you are playing.

 

[electronictonic]

Not one single solitary sole has officially died from taking the vaccine which I find fabulous

Remember back at the very start when some of us pointing out the ridiculousness of people being hit by a bus etc and it being marked down as a covid death and the lockdown lovers said this is fine they obviously died of covid and it should be put down as a covid death, now those same people are now saying the reports of healthy people dying not long after a vaccine is never the vaccine, flip flop.

 

[Kroffe]

Haha, if you can link to one post of someone here saying that people hit by buses should be marked as covid deaths ill swap sides to the conspiracy side.

 

[colinsunderland]

Remember back at the very start when some of us pointing out the ridiculousness of people being hit by a bus etc and it being marked down as a covid death and the lockdown lovers said this is fine they obviously died of covid and it should be put down as a covid death, now those same people are now saying the reports of healthy people dying not long after a vaccine is never the vaccine, flip flop.

I have never seen a single post anywhere stating such nonsense. Link please? Or are you still trolling?
Still waiting for your link to the WHO statement saying 270000000 people have died because of lockdown, been a few months now, you still not found it?

 

[dealer wins]

Haha, if you can link to one post of someone here saying that people hit by buses should be marked as covid deaths ill swap sides to the conspiracy side.

You could die of any reason within 28 days of a positive covid test, and it will be counted as a covid death. Hit by a bus, murdered, heart attack, cancer, road accident, playfords cooking, yep, a covid death will be added to the total.

 

[colinsunderland]

You could die of any reason within 28 days of a positive covid test, and it will be counted as a covid death. Hit by a bus, murdered, heart attack, cancer, road accident, playfords cooking, yep, a covid death will be added to the total.



View attachment 152247

Whats your point, everyone knows that don't they?
Do you have a link to the real world evidence you were talking about on the previous page please?

 

[electronictonic]

I have never seen a single post anywhere stating such nonsense. Link please? Or are you still trolling?
Still waiting for your link to the WHO statement saying 270000000 people have died because of lockdown, been a few months now, you still not found it?

And now you are being your usual mornic self it wasn't 270000000 died it was the UN and it was about poverty deaths it will cause in the aftermath, here's one you can raise a beer to and do a little jig over, maybe even have a wank over it.

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The UN calls this a “global humanitarian catastrophe” as it warns an extra 130 million people could be pushed to brink of starvation this year. So will this be the biggest tragedy of the pandemic: how the rush to

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unleashed an epic man-made disaster that leads to millions of needless deaths

 

[dealer wins]

By the way I want the same as everyone wants on here, an end to lockdowns, covid restrictions, and covid deaths.

We may disagree over government responses and policy, but we all want this shit to be over already.

I just have an opinion, backed up by many "silenced" experts, that most of the worlds governments have implemented policies that have not only made covid worse, but are causing immense collateral damage, the effects of which haven't been realised yet, but will dwarf the covid deaths by a 10x multiplier if not more, and put millions out of work, cause poverty on a massive scale, and threaten counties with possible financial collapse.

 

[slotplayer]

I have the annual physical on Friday. (should be fun) I'm going to see if the doctor can test for Covid antibodies (and vit D) first before scheduling the jab. Unfortunately at the time I scheduled the appt, the doctor was not offering the vaccines, however that was before the J&J was approved so maybe that has changed?

 

[snorky510238]

EDIT - I checked after a shower this morning, and think I'm growing a second scrotum, I'll keep you updated....

Not the end of the world for you then but a very worrying side effect for females.

 

[colinsunderland]

And now you are being your usual mornic self it wasn't 270000000 died it was the UN and it was about poverty deaths it will cause in the aftermath, here's one you can raise a beer to and do a little jig over, maybe even have a wank over it.

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The UN calls this a “global humanitarian catastrophe” as it warns an extra 130 million people could be pushed to brink of starvation this year. So will this be the biggest tragedy of the pandemic: how the rush to

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

unleashed an epic man-made disaster that leads to millions of needless deaths

Yeah the UN sorry, I hadn't gone back through your posts so remembered the details wrong. You said

UN says lockdowns have driven 270,000,000 to near-starvation, 100,000,000 more dropped into sub $1/day poverty. This dwarfes any effects of covid and any domestic lockdown effects by over 100x.

Neither of what you posted above back that figure up.

So, again, where did you get the 270 million figure from? Or did you just make it up?

Wheres the link to people pro lockdown saying about the bus deaths?

 

[geordiecolin]

Remember back at the very start when some of us pointing out the ridiculousness of people being hit by a bus etc and it being marked down as a covid death and the lockdown lovers said this is fine they obviously died of covid and it should be put down as a covid death, now those same people are now saying the reports of healthy people dying not long after a vaccine is never the vaccine, flip flop.

It would not have been that long ago when presented with such manipulation of figures would have been met with nothing but scorn and derision but for the last year it has been an excepted truth that makes up the foundations of all of the measures that we have been subjected too for the past year.

 

[Gaz237]

Well as i expected, refusing the jab with come with repercussions.

P&O have announced this morning that they will not accept bookings from people who have not had both jabs.

I expect the flood gates to start opening from here, hopefully next will be flights, along with no entry to our country without proof of vaccination.

Just hope our government are strong enough to back any industry that wants to implement this.

 

[dealer wins]

Well as i expected, refusing the jab with come with repercussions.

P&O have announced this morning that they will not accept bookings from people who have not had both jabs.

I expect the flood gates to start opening from here, hopefully next will be flights, along with no entry to our country without proof of vaccination.

Just hope our government are strong enough to back any industry that wants to implement this.

Shame that policy is illegal, against discrimination laws, the Council of Europe ruling, against coercion rules and the Nuremberg code, to name just a few laws and rulings it breaches.

Do we really want to throw away yet more of our basic rights and freedoms, because for example as the woke lefties found out last weekend, it will affect everyone eventually, not just people who agree with certain reasons for stripping our fundamental rights.

 

[geordiecolin]

Shame that policy is illegal, against discrimination laws, the Council of Europe ruling, against coercion rules and the Nuremberg code, to name just a few laws and rulings it breaches.

Do we really want to throw away yet more of our basic rights and freedoms, because for example as the woke lefties found out last weekend, it will affect everyone eventually, not just people who agree with certain reasons for stripping our fundamental rights.

Just about every talking point over the past few years has created conflict and division like never before. Does anyone really think that the average person created that?
Under such conditions those laws could easily been repealed

 

[dealer wins]

Just about every talking point over the past few years has created conflict and division like never before. Does anyone really think that the average person created that?
Under such conditions those laws could easily been repealed

Things like the Nuremberg code, and fundamental rights and freedoms are designed to NEVER be repealed, for the very reason they were brought in, to stop evil from happening again.

 

[Gaz237]

Shame that policy is illegal, against discrimination laws, the Council of Europe ruling, against coercion rules and the Nuremberg code, to name just a few laws and rulings it breaches.

Do we really want to throw away yet more of our basic rights and freedoms, because for example as the woke lefties found out last weekend, it will affect everyone eventually, not just people who agree with certain reasons for stripping our fundamental rights.

Bollox to discrimination and bollox to the EU. We are living in unprecedented times right now.

Do you not think P&O have contacted their lawyers before announcing it?

Plus as Colin said, laws can be repealed, more so now as we don't have to answer to the EU.

Think you will find, this will become more public led, as in the public won't book places who have not implemented mandatory vaccinations to all staff and only allow guests who have also had it.

Just imagine Premier in and travel lodge.

Premier inn implement the vaccine route of all staff and guests must of been vaccinated.

Travel lodge have nothing in place.

I know where i would be staying, along with a lot of others, Shareholders are not going to just sit back at travel lodge, change will be demanded.

 

[electronictonic]

Things like the Nuremberg code, and fundamental rights and freedoms are designed to NEVER be repealed, for the very reason they were brought in, to stop evil from happening again.

Indeed.

 

[Gaz237]

Things like the Nuremberg code, and fundamental rights and freedoms are designed to NEVER be repealed, for the very reason they were brought in, to stop evil from happening again.

Nobody would be forcing anyone to have the vaccine.

But they need to realise the repercussions that that entails.

None of them evil.

Again we are living in unprecedented times, which may lead to some unprecedented measures.

 

[geordiecolin]

Nobody would be forcing anyone to have the vaccine.

But they need to realise the repercussions that that entails.

None of them evil.

Again we are living in unprecedented times, which may lead to some unprecedented measures.

I think that the biggest obstacle to the powers that be is not their ability to get round those diktats but market forces.
Both the NHS and the care services would be in ruins which in turn would have a devastating effect on the health of the nation. The figures for take up in both those services of the vaccines are very low and if it was to become mandatory so many would leave those industries. With the fact that so many from those sectors are from abroad they would simply move to another Country where they promise freedom of choice or leave the industry all together.
Ditto the hospitality industry

 

[colinsunderland]

Indeed.

there hasn't been a ruling yet, so again, you are posting stuff that doesn't prove a thing.

 

[snorky510238]

What have we learnt in 1 year?

Nothing by the looks of it, to be fair. A year ago the UK was recording around 3,000 cases per day and deemed it necessary to be placed into lockdown for 3/4 months.

At the end of that period (which lockdown was overall, well adhered to), we had around 3-400 cases per day so lifted restrictions and look what happened.

A year on and we are recording 5,000 plus cases per day and it’s deemed as “okay” to come out of lockdown. No consistency there, I am afraid.

I know people will say vaccinations have started and a percentage of immunity will have been achieved. Perhaps so but we have mostly vaccinated the elderly who are less mobile than the young so much less likely to spread it. However you look at it we are still recording 5,000 cases per day so we obviously haven’t reduced the potential for it to spread by nearly enough yet.

The other thing is, you can trawl the internet and post as many different theories as you wish. The vast majority, even though they are the opinion of a specialist, contradict that of another, who is also a specialist. There is little or no long term evidence to support most of what is written, simply because we haven’t entered “long term” yet.

I am just looking at the situation as logically as I am able to and that brings me to the point of whether face masks are actually effective or not. Perhaps they are to a degree but can we be expected to believe that the 400,000 plus worldwide cases per day, all caught it because none of them were wearing a mask?

The answer to that is obvious, there must be a huge percentage of those that were actually following guidance and wearing masks so just how many cases do they prevent?

There is a way to eradicate the virus in less than 2 months but that would require the whole world to pull together and do what is needed so is sadly an impossibility.

 

[colinsunderland]

What have we learnt in 1 year?

Nothing by the looks of it, to be fair. A year ago the UK was recording around 3,000 cases per day and deemed it necessary to be placed into lockdown for 3/4 months.

At the end of that period (which lockdown was overall, well adhered to), we had around 3-400 cases per day so lifted restrictions and look what happened.

A year on and we are recording 5,000 plus cases per day and it’s deemed as “okay” to come out of lockdown. No consistency there, I am afraid.

I know people will say vaccinations have started and a percentage of immunity will have been achieved. Perhaps so but we have mostly vaccinated the elderly who are less mobile than the young so much less likely to spread it. However you look at it we are still recording 5,000 cases per day so we obviously haven’t reduced the potential for it to spread by nearly enough yet.

The other thing is, you can trawl the internet and post as many different theories as you wish. The vast majority, even though they are the opinion of a specialist, contradict that of another, who is also a specialist. There is little or no long term evidence to support most of what is written, simply because we haven’t entered “long term” yet.

I am just looking at the situation as logically as I am able to and that brings me to the point of whether face masks are actually effective or not. Perhaps they are to a degree but can we be expected to believe that the 400,000 plus worldwide cases per day, all caught it because none of them were wearing a mask?

The answer to that is obvious, there must be a huge percentage of those that were actually following guidance and wearing masks so just how many cases do they prevent?

There is a way to eradicate the virus in less than 2 months but that would require the whole world to pull together and do what is needed so is sadly an impossibility.

You can't just look at the bare figures for the cases though.
This time last year we were doing around 1500 tests per day. There were 768 cases on the 17th March last year. 2335 the day we went into lockdown.
Yesterday we did 1,573,774 tests and there were 5,758 positives. At the end of the lockdown I think that increased to about 150k, which is still only 10% of what we are doing now. So if we say 400 cases a day on 150000 tests, then that isn't far away from the same percentage as we have now, but you also have to consider theres also been over 25 million people vaccinated now, there were none this time last year, which will affect the figures.
The numbers are dropping daily, by the time we reach the stage where pubs open I'm sure they will be lower than they were last time, but with the obvious difference this time, of vaccinations.

Heres todays figures

5,758 cases in the UK. -168
141 deaths in the UK. -49
465 patients admitted to hospital in the UK. -169
7,218 patients in hospital in the UK. -2,217
968 patients on ventilation in the UK. -325

1,573,774 tests conducted.

59 cases per 100,000 for the UK using daily data. -1

25,273,226 (433,320) people have received 1st dose of vaccination in the UK. +2,463,397
1,759,445 (95,799) people have received 2nd dose of vaccination in the UK. +505,092

We can't keep everywhere shut forever, there has to be a timeline out of it.

I'm not sure of what you are asking on the masks question? No one has ever claimed they stop the spread completely, but they can stop it in some cases.

 

[geordiecolin]

What have we learnt in 1 year?

Nothing by the looks of it, to be fair. A year ago the UK was recording around 3,000 cases per day and deemed it necessary to be placed into lockdown for 3/4 months.

At the end of that period (which lockdown was overall, well adhered to), we had around 3-400 cases per day so lifted restrictions and look what happened.

A year on and we are recording 5,000 plus cases per day and it’s deemed as “okay” to come out of lockdown. No consistency there, I am afraid.

I know people will say vaccinations have started and a percentage of immunity will have been achieved. Perhaps so but we have mostly vaccinated the elderly who are less mobile than the young so much less likely to spread it. However you look at it we are still recording 5,000 cases per day so we obviously haven’t reduced the potential for it to spread by nearly enough yet.

The other thing is, you can trawl the internet and post as many different theories as you wish. The vast majority, even though they are the opinion of a specialist, contradict that of another, who is also a specialist. There is little or no long term evidence to support most of what is written, simply because we haven’t entered “long term” yet.

I am just looking at the situation as logically as I am able to and that brings me to the point of whether face masks are actually effective or not. Perhaps they are to a degree but can we be expected to believe that the 400,000 plus worldwide cases per day, all caught it because none of them were wearing a mask?

The answer to that is obvious, there must be a huge percentage of those that were actually following guidance and wearing masks so just how many cases do they prevent?

There is a way to eradicate the virus in less than 2 months but that would require the whole world to pull together and do what is needed so is sadly an impossibility.

Contrast Florida with California. One had few restrictions and no mask policy,the other had masks and lock downs. There death rates are very similar. Fauci stated back in March that there was no need to wear a mask. This after being the chief medical officer in America for something like 25 years. Long enough for him to know virology and how things work. Now he is wearing two masks. Who are they trying to kid?
I wear a mask for the benefit of others not for myself but the science states that masks do not work unless you wear the top of the range stuff.

 

[snorky510238]

I'm not sure of what you are asking on the masks question? No one has ever claimed they stop the spread completely, but they can stop it in some cases.

Hard to prove either way though, isn’t it “some cases”, which cases are those specifically?

I am not saying they don’t but at the same time where is the proof they do.

Regarding tests we are doing now compared to a year ago. Back then virtually everyone tested was because they had symptoms. Now we are testing millions of students for example just so we know they are clear before returning. The vast majority of people being tested now don’t have any symptoms, they are being tested as a matter of cause so figures will be greatly distorted and make comparisons impossible really with regards to positives per test.

 

[colinsunderland]

Hard to prove either way though, isn’t it “some cases”, which cases are those specifically?

I am not saying they don’t but at the same time where is the proof they do.

Regarding tests we are doing now compared to a year ago. Back then virtually everyone tested was because they had symptoms. Now we are testing millions of students for example just so we know they are clear before returning. The vast majority of people being tested now don’t have any symptoms, they are being tested as a matter of cause so figures will be greatly distorted and make comparisons impossible really with regards to positives per test.

Yes, exactly, so they can't be compared from last year to this year.
If the numbers start rising again, I'm sure they will have restrictions back in place quite quickly, lets hope it doesn't come to that

 

[snorky510238]

All you can compare is the overall positives that’s the only stat that counts in the end.

Anyway as you say, I am sure restrictions will be implemented if necessary and I am fairly sure that it will happen again. My reason for this is, it only takes a variant the vaccine doesn’t work against and boom, the whole bloody thing starts again.