Corona virus - Covid 19 discussion

[dionysus]

 

[Borgie]

she said it's wrong

GET HER

???

 

[Borgie]

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[dionysus]

???

was being facetious because you clearly said you werent saying whether right or wrong

 

[Borgie]

was being facetious because you clearly said you werent saying whether right or wrong

The point is for every article someone posts that something is wrong you can easily find one that says it is right.

What ever strategy a country chooses it comes with a price.

 

[ladyhawke]

An article on herd immunity from Australia.

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Not saying its right or wrong.

The point is for every article someone posts that something is wrong you can easily find one that says it is right.

What ever strategy a country chooses it comes with a price.

I had never heard of Gideon Meyerowitz-Katz until I read this article. He certainly is not involved in advising our government on any aspect of COVID-19. At least, not that I am aware of.

However, he is an epidemiologist working in chronic disease, and thus an expert, so he will certainly have more informed views than the general public.

BUT.... as @Borgie posts above, many other epidemiologists have opposing views. So are they lesser experts because they have different ideas on how to approach this virus?

It is beginning to appear that perhaps there are actually different approaches for different countries and different situations.

As the article states, Australia doesn't follow the herd immunity theory; our approach was to place the country into a near-total lockdown, or as close as was feasible.

The result? We are on course to roll back many restrictions due to a low rate of infections. Overnight the infection figures were:
QLD - 0
Vic - 1
NSW - 6.
(Not sure about the other states, but I believe they were also correspondingly low).

So are these low figures due to how we handled COVID-19 from the start (the Ruby Princess debacle excluded), by not practicing herd immunity?

Or is it the fact that we are an isolated continent at the edge of the world?

Or the fact that we can easily control our borders?

All the experts have such diverse ideas on how to control and contain the virus, that I really am starting to think that what I stated above is the reality - there are different approaches for different countries and different situations.

Which could conceivably make COVID-19 so much more dangerous to try to control, as it appears to be a guessing game all around.

 

[ladyhawke]

she said it's wrong

GET HER

errr....I think HER is a HIM.

 

[Borgie]

errr....I think HER is a HIM.

I is a HER ... I think lol

 

[ladyhawke]

I is a HER ... I think lol

I's a HER.
Youzz a HIM
Gideon whats-er-name is a HIM.

And none of us identify as Colleen.

 

[Kroffe]

errr....I think HER is a HIM.

I think the her thats a him is actually a her.
(he was talking about Borgie)

 

[sufferinsilence]

This got confusing very fast.

 

[Borgie]

Who am I ? What am I ?

It's easier to be a bear

 

[dionysus]

Who am I ? What am I ?

It's easier to be a bear

I dunno, all hose costume changes must be exhausting
and now, always worrying if your best tigger friend is gonna end up on a netflix series

 

[ladyhawke]

Oh dear....I must learn to read...I really must learn to read....and then perhaps I will really understand...what the hell we were talking about.

So what have I learned?

Borgie is a HER with strong BEAR leanings.
Kroffe is a BEAR with strong HONEY leanings....Hiya, Honey.
Dion still remains a HIM
I still remain a HER

And none of us identify as the Class of (COVID) 19.

Phew...all sorted.

 

[snorky510238]

I had never heard of Gideon Meyerowitz-Katz until I read this article. He certainly is not involved in advising our government on any aspect of COVID-19. At least, not that I am aware of.

However, he is an epidemiologist working in chronic disease, and thus an expert, so he will certainly have more informed views than the general public.

BUT.... as @Borgie posts above, many other epidemiologists have opposing views. So are they lesser experts because they have different ideas on how to approach this virus?

It is beginning to appear that perhaps there are actually different approaches for different countries and different situations.

As the article states, Australia doesn't follow the herd immunity theory; our approach was to place the country into a near-total lockdown, or as close as was feasible.

The result? We are on course to roll back many restrictions due to a low rate of infections. Overnight the infection figures were:
QLD - 0
Vic - 1
NSW - 6.
(Not sure about the other states, but I believe they were also correspondingly low).

So are these low figures due to how we handled COVID-19 from the start (the Ruby Princess debacle excluded), by not practicing herd immunity?

Or is it the fact that we are an isolated continent at the edge of the world?

Or the fact that we can easily control our borders?

All the experts have such diverse ideas on how to control and contain the virus, that I really am starting to think that what I stated above is the reality - there are different approaches for different countries and different situations.

Which could conceivably make COVID-19 so much more dangerous to try to control, as it appears to be a guessing game all around.

Being strict about immigration and who you let into the country will be a huge help. Not like us letting people in “willy nilly” and not having a bloody clue who half of them are or whether they are here legally or illegally.

Think what you will that’s the main reason the UK has been in a mess for years and will be forever more. It’s beyond retrievable now, the bed has been made.

 

[Kroffe]

Oh dear....I must learn to read...I really must learn to read....and then perhaps I will really understand...what the hell we were talking about.

So what have I learned?

Borgie is a HER with strong BEAR leanings.
Kroffe is a BEAR with strong HONEY leanings....Hiya, Honey.
Dion still remains a HIM
I still remain a HER

And none of us identify as the Class of (COVID) 19.

Phew...all sorted.

 

[slotmaster]

This got confusing very fast.

Once again your profile pic is perfect for the situation.

Borgie is a HER, Ladyhawke is a HER, Dion is a HIM and kroffe thinks he is a cute little bear. All good in the hood.

 

[Kroffe]

I dunno, all hose costume changes must be exhausting
and now, always worrying if your best tigger friend is gonna end up on a netflix series

Are you implying i have more than one tigger friend?

And as for the costume changes, i have no idea what you are talking about....

 

[ternur]

Being strict about immigration and who you let into the country will be a huge help. Not like us letting people in “willy nilly” and not having a bloody clue who half of them are or whether they are here legally or illegally.

Think what you will that’s the main reason the UK has been in a mess for years and will be forever more. It’s beyond retrievable now, the bed has been made.

In regards to containing pandemic in modern world? I don't think so.

 

[bamberfishcake]

I found this shocking that the mass production of ventilators being pushed in the UK has basically produced a ventilator unsuitable for coronavirus patients.........

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Quote:

Pretty much all the basic new designs are not going to get through the Covid approval process. The government spin is the ‘clinical need’ changed, but the reality is that it was always misguided to think you could develop and create these ventilators,” the person said. “Starting the process in this way was unwise. It has gradually become more sensible.

These ventilators are suitable for less than 24 hours continual usage amongst other unsuitable factors. Coronavirus patients need 3 to 4 days on average on a specific type of unit.

This was known from the start.

Also quite alarming that the health service are facing a shortage of gowns - apparently. As important as face masks.

Rock on Boris! Fat Cat supremacy leaving the peasants to rot again.

At least now the correct type of ventilator is being mass produced by non other than 'a consortium of engineering, aerospace and manufacturing companies'.

Sorry, but the cynic in me sees a government not wanting to dip their hands in their pockets unless it serves our economy.

Excuses about supply chain issue for not attempting to purchase stock dont wash with me either. All countries would have faced the same issues.

 

[geordiecolin]

Being strict about immigration and who you let into the country will be a huge help. Not like us letting people in “willy nilly” and not having a bloody clue who half of them are or whether they are here legally or illegally.

Think what you will that’s the main reason the UK has been in a mess for years and will be forever more. It’s beyond retrievable now, the bed has been made.

Having something like 140,000 UK workers apply for farm work only to be ignored in favour of flying in 40,000 from Eastern Europe then having the media calling UK workers lazy is so consistant with our honest and open governments.Not to mention all things virus related.

 

[Harry_BKK]

Having something like 140,000 UK workers apply for farm work only to be ignored in favour of flying in 40,000 from Eastern Europe then having the media calling UK workers lazy is so consistant with our honest and open governments.Not to mention all things virus related.

To be honest, the farmers don't want local workers because after 1-2 days hardly anyone will return because it is backbreaking work.

 

[geordiecolin]

To be honest, the farmers don't want local workers because after 1-2 days hardly anyone will return because it is backbreaking work.

That is not the reason. Workers from Eastern Europe are employed by an agency that exploit them. The farmers exploit the agency as well as the employees. And as far as I understand we are still wrapped up in EU diktats. Not forgetting that the EU gives the farmer £1,000 for each EU worker that they employ. These workers move from farm to farm through the months

 

[Harry_BKK]

That is not the reason

Go and speak to the farmers.

I know if from German farmers because years ago I used to drive out and pluck stuff for my consumption - strawberries, tomatoes, gherkins, asparagus, etc.

You go an lie down for a day on a carriage pulled by a tractor to harvest cucumber, let's see how long you will last. And these are the lucky ones, did you ever harvest e.g. asparagus?

 

[Harry_BKK]

That is not the reason. Workers from Eastern Europe are employed by an agency that exploit them. The farmers exploit the agency as well as the employees. And as far as I understand we are still wrapped up in EU diktats. Not forgetting that the EU gives the farmer £1,000 for each EU worker that they employ. These workers move from farm to farm through the months

Oh, the bad EU again!

 

[pinnit2014]

Can't comment about British v Foreign workers - main due to the fact when we were re-doing our parents' old home, none of the locals turned up to quote and when they did they quoted a 1k job at 5k, so we ended up with a kitchen and bathroom by the Poles, a roof by the Dutch and the electrics by the Germans.

If you're ever in northern ireland you'll see it easily - it's the one with the EU flag drapped over it in homage to the excellent job they did

 

[geordiecolin]

Oh, the bad EU again!

That is your reply? Putting aside the very very casual but very strict rules on the virus issue

 

[slotplayer]

OR

 

[snorky510238]

In regards to containing pandemic in modern world? I don't think so.

So we are all placed under lockdown to do our best to prevent spreading it unnecessarily and yet according to reports 15,000 people a day are entering the country without screening. Where’s the bleeding sense in that?

 

[dionysus]

just an opinion/info read for anyone inclined, comparing outbreaks

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[geordiecolin]

So we are all placed under lockdown to do our best to prevent spreading it unnecessarily and yet according to reports 15,000 people a day are entering the country without screening. Where’s the bleeding sense in that?

I believe that we are only meant to follow what the government and media are telling us. Did you not get the email?

 

[Harry_BKK]

OR

I see you have all the knowledge of the English or German countryside and farms. Bring one of those harvesters over and then see where you can actually use it. Plus, most farms in Europe are not huge corporations as you have in the US, so investing that kind of money is simply not possible or feasible.

 

[Harry_BKK]

That is your reply? Putting aside the very very casual but very strict rules on the virus issue

All I can tell you is that farmers prefer to employ people from Eastern Europe because they are much faster harvesting than the locals. The farmers I asked told me that the locals are "all lazy bums and won't come back the second or third day."

AFAIK, in Germany, the foreign workers earn a minimum wage, so it is regulated. Don't know how the UK is doing it.

 

[shadow123]

Also when that person didn't smoke? Because that's how you have to compare this. Basically from the 150 people only 4% smoked but just to be sure they add all of them as being smokers.

The point is that if 100 people die of the same condition only those who smoke will be classed as smoking
related when it could have nothing go do with the cause of death,dont get me wrong , smoking is a stupid
dangerous habit no one should participate in, but only one of many other stupid habits like getting legless,
beating up the misses and destroying your liver.

 

[snorky510238]

Harry said

You go an lie down for a day on a carriage pulled by a tractor to harvest cucumber, let's see how long you will last. And these are the lucky ones, did you ever harvest e.g. asparagus?

To be fair though they are doing it through choice. Perhaps we shouldn’t give people a choice and instead force all the lazy }#%^* in this country who are capable of working but choose not to bother, the option of going harvesting or lose your benefits. Oh no sorry of course you couldn’t you would be violating their rights of which they have so many it wouldn’t be worth the hassle.

If you’re still short of numbers how about using prisoners you could shackle them all together to stop them escaping. Oh no sorry of course you couldn’t you would be violating their rights of which they have so many it wouldn’t be worth the hassle.

 

[slotplayer]

I see you have all the knowledge of the English or German countryside and farms. Bring one of those harvesters over and then see where you can actually use it. Plus, most farms in Europe are not huge corporations as you have in the US, so investing that kind of money is simply not possible or feasible.

Duh, I'm aware of more than you think. That's a commercial farm and of course only they could afford such equipment. There are smaller farms here as well that use labor.

 

[ternur]

So we are all placed under lockdown to do our best to prevent spreading it unnecessarily and yet according to reports 15,000 people a day are entering the country without screening. Where’s the bleeding sense in that?

Without screening? Yes, that's pretty stupid I admit. Is that really the case in the UK?

I read your comment as something relating to the situation prior lockdown conditions. Some always see a need to blame something or someone else if shit happens (not saying that's you here). You know, China did it/WHO didn't act/etc.

I'd rather see people focusing on something positive. Too much negativity in the world anyway.

 

[mack341]

I think the eastern european pickers are willing to do it because it makes financial sense to do so, £300 here is probably the equivalent of £600 in their home country in terms of cost of living [food, bills, rent, local tax].

To do a proper analysis you'd have to know how much tesco etc pay per cucumber, what the EU give the farmer etc.. it could be very much that these workers are being exploited, hours and hours of uncomfortable repetitive work and if they slow down they lose the job and someone replaces them.

I know in the olden days children and locals would be hired by farmers to pick peas and soft fruit etc..and be paid by the box of what they picked, so they could work at their own speed.

 

[mack341]

This is an interesting 'alternative theory' story, Professor Luc Montagnier [a 2008 joint recipient of a nobel peace prize for discovering HIV no less ] believes the coronavirus was man made in wuhan. This passed me by, several sources/articles in google news, because of the presence of HIV in the virus sequence.

I'm struggling to be able to copy and paste the articles, somehow the sites block it, but I've managed to copy and paste some of the transcript of the interview on french tv.

Host: So what interests me this morning is that you are working right now on the virus..

– Pr. Montagnier: I’m working on it, but not necessarily in the lab, since we mainly work on computers along with a colleague. We have no experiments, but the experience comes from the disease itself; from the measures that are made currently in labs and on patients

– Host: And you came out with conclusions..

– Pr. Montagnier: Well, we came to the conclusion that there has been a manipulation regarding this virus

– Host: What do you mean?

– Pr. Montagnier: In fact, part of the virus, not the whole, is manipulated. Well, the virus follows a classic model that comes from bats; but on top of this model they have added sequences of HIV, the AIDS virus.

– Host: When you say “they have added”, you mean who?

– Pr. Montagnier: Oh I don’t know!

– Host: ..and it’s not natural.. this is what you mean?

– Pr. Montagnier: No it’s not natural. It’s a lab work of professional molecular biologists. It’s a very accurate work.. we can say a work of watchmaker..

– Host: But for what purpose?

– Pr. Montagnier: Well for what purpose.. this is unclear. My job is to expose the facts. I accuse nobody. I don’t know who did it; neither why. The possibility is probably they wanted to make a vaccine against the Aids. So they took small sequences of the virus and they installed them on the larger sequence of the coronavirus

– Host: So I’m not sure that I’m understanding all what you’re saying.. you mean that in this virus there’s a part of HIV?

– Pr. Montagnier: You’re right. The genetic material of the virus is a long tape of RNA.. as in DNA but it’s RNA. On this tape; in a certain place of it, they have planted small sequences of HIV. And these sequences are not small for nothing; they have the possibility to modify what we call, for example, the antigens sites. This means that if we want to make a vaccine, we can modify the protein subject to the vaccine by a small sequence coming from another virus

– Host 2: Some rumors said that it has a human origin but this was refuted by scientific authorities anyway

– Pr. Montagnier: There’s a will to suppress the works on the subject. We are not the first. A group of renowned Indian researchers have published the same thing. But they forced them to retract it.

– Host 2: They forced them in what way?

– Pr. Montagnier: It has been cancelled. If you check their work you find a cancellation band.

– Host 2: But most of scientists say the opposite of what you claim here.

– Pr. Montagnier: Less and less. It just happened at the beginning of this year; and we see more and more works that suggest the same thing. I’m out of age and I’m a Nobel laureate so I can work freely; so no pressure can be exerted on me.


----------

Don't know what to make of it but certainly interesting, if somebody is a reknowned professor in medical research for things like HIV and wins a nobel peace prize, I tend to not want to dismiss out of hand something they say, their opinion carries weight for me. He's going out on a limb in terms of the conventional analysis, and on a national tv news network, would he do that just for a laugh?

 

[geordiecolin]

All I can tell you is that farmers prefer to employ people from Eastern Europe because they are much faster harvesting than the locals. The farmers I asked told me that the locals are "all lazy bums and won't come back the second or third day."

AFAIK, in Germany, the foreign workers earn a minimum wage, so it is regulated. Don't know how the UK is doing it.

Nothing to do with the farmer being able to put them up in cramped accomodation and charge them for it ( despite social distancing) And nothing to do with them charging them for food and utilities then claiming back the costs via taxes( probably) ?

 

[geordiecolin]

Something on how we are manipulated into fear and frenzy by the press.
Friday 17 Feb
Front page headline.
Millions may be required to wear masks in the office in order to return to work.
page 2/3 Lets make Captain Fantastic a Knight

page 4/5 Five experts state that wearing masks for 100% of the population is "Vital" in small quotations that where very vague while the article itself does not even attempt to back the headline up with any reasoning or expansion on any of the 5 quotes.
page 6/7 An update on last nights live tv address in which the facts presented conflict with the plans for moving ahead thus making little sense.

Its not until page 8 where they state the actual facts and statistics- Nine out of ten deaths attributed to the virus have at least one or more underlying medical condition.-Only a very small minority of those infected will die unless they have unerlying medical issues- The vast majority are either very old or very sick to begin with-The daily death rate in the UK is consistant with recent years.
Page 8 should be page 1/2/3/4/5 or more and we should be getting back to work

 

[electronictonic]

Rashid A Buttar – WASHINGTON DC – In a stunning turn of events, Surgeon General Jerome Adams explained in an interview on live XM radio, that the Coronavirus Task Force has, effectively, dumped the Bill Gates/CDC/WHO predictive contagion model, and is now working with the real data.


He explained on the Sirius XM’s Breitbart News Daily host Alex Marlow, that given the new data, businesses will begin to re-open as early as May, others in June. This runs contrary to the out-and-out fear-mongering of Dr. Fauci and Bill Gates who have made a media tour, threatening the public that businesses may not re-open for six months to a year, or until and unless governments purchase their conveniently patented, big-pharma vaccination.



Who the fuck does Gates think he was telling the world and businesses they cannot re open until they take his poison? look at who his father is.

 

[Kroffe]

Finally some some quality jokes.
Thread was getting a bit serious.

 

[dionysus]

popped up a few times this morning

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[Harry_BKK]

Something on how we are manipulated into fear and frenzy by the press.
Friday 17 Feb
Front page headline.
Millions may be required to wear masks in the office in order to return to work.
page 2/3 Lets make Captain Fantastic a Knight

page 4/5 Five experts state that wearing masks for 100% of the population is "Vital" in small quotations that where very vague while the article itself does not even attempt to back the headline up with any reasoning or expansion on any of the 5 quotes.
page 6/7 An update on last nights live tv address in which the facts presented conflict with the plans for moving ahead thus making little sense.

Its not until page 8 where they state the actual facts and statistics- Nine out of ten deaths attributed to the virus have at least one or more underlying medical condition.-Only a very small minority of those infected will die unless they have unerlying medical issues- The vast majority are either very old or very sick to begin with-The daily death rate in the UK is consistant with recent years.
Page 8 should be page 1/2/3/4/5 or more and we should be getting back to work

Ok mate, I give you a hypothetical.

SARS was most dangerous for healthy, young people. That time we were lucky that infected people were not contagious unless they showed symptoms. Hence, containment was easy.

This time we are not as lucky and COVID-19 spreads stealthily without people showing symptoms. Plus, it has mutated in a way that it affects now older people and those with pre-existing conditions.

Would you be just as vocal if your kids, nephews, nieces etc would be at risk from COVID-19 as they would have been from SARS? Or do you consider older or sick people to be less worth saving and actually let them have another 1 or 10 years, whatever they would have left in their natural course?

Just sayin'.

 

[geordiecolin]

Rashid A Buttar – WASHINGTON DC – In a stunning turn of events, Surgeon General Jerome Adams explained in an interview on live XM radio, that the Coronavirus Task Force has, effectively, dumped the Bill Gates/CDC/WHO predictive contagion model, and is now working with the real data.


He explained on the Sirius XM’s Breitbart News Daily host Alex Marlow, that given the new data, businesses will begin to re-open as early as May, others in June. This runs contrary to the out-and-out fear-mongering of Dr. Fauci and Bill Gates who have made a media tour, threatening the public that businesses may not re-open for six months to a year, or until and unless governments purchase their conveniently patented, big-pharma vaccination.



Who the fuck does Gates think he was telling the world and businesses they cannot re open until they take his poison? look at who his father is.

Wow,wow,wow. I feel I need some form of solid confirmation on this because it is a huge game changer.

Trump highlighted PEPFAR the other day live on TV and linked Deborah Burk/Fauci who where stood on the podium with him of being heavily involved in it. He called out the 6 Billion Dollars a year in Africa -Where so much damage has been done on the civilian population.

 

[geordiecolin]

Ok mate, I give you a hypothetical.

SARS was most dangerous for healthy, young people. That time we were lucky that infected people were not contagious unless they showed symptoms. Hence, containment was easy.

This time we are not as lucky and COVID-19 spreads stealthily without people showing symptoms. Plus, it has mutated in a way that it affects now older people and those with pre-existing conditions.

Would you be just as vocal if your kids, nephews, nieces etc would be at risk from COVID-19 as they would have been from SARS? Or do you consider older or sick people to be less worth saving and actually let them have another 1 or 10 years, whatever they would have left in their natural course?

Just sayin'.

I shall refer you to Electronictonic's last posted video

 

[geordiecolin]

Ok mate, I give you a hypothetical.

SARS was most dangerous for healthy, young people. That time we were lucky that infected people were not contagious unless they showed symptoms. Hence, containment was easy.

This time we are not as lucky and COVID-19 spreads stealthily without people showing symptoms. Plus, it has mutated in a way that it affects now older people and those with pre-existing conditions.

Would you be just as vocal if your kids, nephews, nieces etc would be at risk from COVID-19 as they would have been from SARS? Or do you consider older or sick people to be less worth saving and actually let them have another 1 or 10 years, whatever they would have left in their natural course?

Just sayin'.

If I didn't care for the sick or elderly then I would not have volunteered my services for free in order to do my bit so I would thank you to retract that last comment which was obviously designed to shame me.

 

[shadow123]

Very few young people are wearing gloves or masks,went to the chemist today, young guy came in with
a dry cough, I shot out the door and waited till he was well gone,just hate going into any shops at the moment.

 

[Playford7]

Oh dear....I must learn to read...I really must learn to read....and then perhaps I will really understand...what the hell we were talking about.

So what have I learned?

Borgie is a HER with strong BEAR leanings.
Kroffe is a BEAR with strong HONEY leanings....Hiya, Honey.
Dion still remains a HIM
I still remain a HER

And none of us identify as the Class of (COVID) 19.

Phew...all sorted.

I’d just rather you paid more respect to lady sox.
Other than that I think your just awesome lol