Brexit - whats the difference.....

[ChopleyIOM]

In and of itself it's certainly got future potential, although do take a look at the timelines to understand how long we'll be talking about for it come online in any sort of meaningful way

The thing is though, that for many British businesses it's already too late, and in many other cases they'd much rather just have their trading relationship with the EU back, than have to start all over again with countries such as Peru and Mexico.....

(Also note that some of the countries are already covered by existing trade deals, such as Japan, where the UK simply achieved (give or take) a rollover of what the EU had already negotiated.)

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Brexit has brought no benefits, UK manufacturers say.

This is why stuff like the CPTPP is more ephemeral and theoretical than anything else, the promise of cake later isn't much good if the reality is bankruptcy or a massive reduction in trade today.

There are no benefits as a result of Brexit, an organisation representing UK manufacturers has said.

According to Make UK, it is currently hard for manufacturers to see any advantages from leaving the EU, and the organisation warns exports to the bloc could become a permanent problem if the government does not step in.

The organisations admitted its position following a meeting it had with SNP MP Angus MacNeil.

Tweeting yesterday, MacNeil said that “essentially, after their [Make UK] talking to 1000s of member businesses, no one has reported any advantages to Brexit.”

He later added large businesses are “still exporting, with hassles, to the EU, but a lot of small businesses have stopped”.

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[bamberfishcake]

And I quote: '

A Home Office spokesperson said: “The British people repeatedly voted to end free movement and take back control of our immigration system.

“Employers should invest in our domestic workforce instead of relying on labour from abroad.”

 

[paul7388]

Lol maybe it is all true.

But I would never quote any article or information from that clown Macneil from the SNP.

This is a man that is a proven liar from a party that will do anything to try and secure independence. No matter how good Brexit was he would still bend the truth in any way to.secure his and his.parties long term goal.

 

[Kroffe]

Did someone say 'One pound fish'?

 

[bamberfishcake]

Lol maybe it is all true.

But I would never quote any article or information from that clown Macneil from the SNP.

This is a man that is a proven liar from a party that will do anything to try and secure independence. No matter how good Brexit was he would still bend the truth in any way to.secure his and his.parties long term goal.

Just your average politician then.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

A hot take from the Brexity and anti-EU Daily Mail this morning, hitting the problem that a lot of Brexity types are now, namely that it's completely impossible to continue to blame the 'pingedemic' (which has largely abated) and the pandemic in general (because, y'know, that's happening everywhere), and yet the UK is the only country in all of Europe experiencing serious supply chain issues.

So their new big idea is to, erm, unite with the EU to get rid of all that pesky bureaucracy (that Brexit was going to get rid of, remember), whilst conveniently brushing aside the fact that these are effectively trade sanctions that we imposed on ourselves by, erm, leaving the EU and also making the choice to leave the Single Market and the Customs Union.

If the EU had kicked us out then this might make some sort of vague sense, but this is literally all stuff we did to ourselves, voluntarily, and now the MoS's big idea, effectively, is to say to the EU, 'Help us out here please'.

Starting to get a bit awkward, isn't it?

 

[mack341]

The EU stands for bureaucracy, that's what gets it up of a morning, there's one way of doing things [what we have decided] and we must make sure eu people/businesses conform. Part protection racket, part gravy train for those that administer/run it.

 

[Daavid63]

CNN article, a liberal UK hating news network in the States. Fully supports the EU and any other organisation that can bash the Brits, a sister to the Guardian rag in its outlook on Brexit.

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Keep drying your eyes remainers. ???

 

[ChopleyIOM]

CNN article, a liberal UK hating news network in the States. Fully supports the EU and any other organisation that can bash the Brits, a sister to the Guardian rag in its outlook on Brexit.

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Keep drying your eyes remainers. ???

Yes I'm sure that will be of great comfort to the businesses up and down the UK that have gone bankrupt, are about to go bankrupt, or have seen their trade massively diminish as a result of the trade sanctions the UK imposed on itself with Brexit.

As an aside, when did 'liberal' become a pejorative term? I was accused of being 'too liberal' in one of the comments left on my Mental video and I'm wondering what that's actually supposed to mean.

Does liberal mean what you think it means, or are you assigning qualities to it that don't belong?

 

[ChopleyIOM]

The EU stands for bureaucracy, that's what gets it up of a morning, there's one way of doing things [what we have decided] and we must make sure eu people/businesses conform. Part protection racket, part gravy train for those that administer/run it.

I'm sorry mack I don't even know what that post means, this is bureaucracy that didn't exist before, that now only exists because the UK left the EU, and along with that, the Single Market and the Customs Union.

The EU are conforming perfectly with the new rules that we decided to impose on ourselves.

 

[Daavid63]

Yes I'm sure that will be of great comfort to the businesses up and down the UK that have gone bankrupt, are about to go bankrupt, or have seen their trade massively diminish as a result of the trade sanctions the UK imposed on itself with Brexit.

As an aside, when did 'liberal' become a pejorative term? I was accused of being 'too liberal' in one of the comments left on my Mental video and I'm wondering what that's actually supposed to mean.

Does liberal mean what you think it means, or are you assigning qualities to it that don't belong?

View attachment 158195

Liberal in the UK denotes hate of any policy or dissent that does not agree with their policies. An easy example is the extreme left Marxist Corbynistas who will tolerate nobody, no policy, unless they agree with them. ?

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Liberal in the UK denotes hate of any policy or dissent that does not agree with their policies. An easy example is the extreme left Marxist Corbynistas who will tolerate nobody, no policy, unless they agree with them. ?

OK I've just checked and that's not how language works.

 

[interlog]

Iceland's managing director explicitly calls out Brexit-related supply chain issues (NOT the pingdemic and NOT Covid) as threatening unprecedented disruption to Christmas across the UK.

Says UK Gov has dropped the ball badly in not recognising HGV drivers as a skilled profession so they can continue to use EU drivers until UK drivers can be trained and brought online (assuming they want to do the job at all).

Calls Brexit a 'self-inflicted wound'.

Who knows @dunover - maybe there will be the dreaded pigs-in-blankets shortage after all!

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View attachment 158054

We (a rival supermarket) did a recruitment campaign recently for LGV drivers. Of the 90 applicants, 15 of these were from the nearby Iceland DC. When asked for the reason why they wanted to leave Iceland, it was that we paid higher wages and better benefits. We took 7 of these drivers on.

Perhaps Iceland should look at their 3rd party suppliers and ask them to pay a decent wage so that their staff don't leave elsewhere.

 

[mack341]

I'm sorry mack I don't even know what that post means, this is bureaucracy that didn't exist before, that now only exists because the UK left the EU, and along with that, the Single Market and the Customs Union.

The EU are conforming perfectly with the new rules that we decided to impose on ourselves.

We have a fair amount of ott bureaucrats and also hardcore remainers in the civil service drafting the rules, combine that with the big daddy of bureaucracy the EU and we arrive here. I also think the EU elite must view brexit britain as an existential threat, if we do alright outside the club it won't help their cause.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

We (a rival supermarket) did a recruitment campaign recently for LGV drivers. Of the 90 applicants, 15 of these were from the nearby Iceland DC. When asked for the reason why they wanted to leave Iceland, it was that we paid higher wages and better benefits. We took 7 of these drivers on.

Perhaps Iceland should look at their 3rd party suppliers and ask them to pay a decent wage so that their staff don't leave elsewhere.

Yes I know, we've done this already, the shortage of drivers is a multi-faceted and nuanced problem, and one of those is crap pay and conditions, and another one is Brexit.

It's hard to have this debate because it always goes:

'The shortage of drivers isn't all down to Brexit you know'
'I agree, I've never said it was, it's nuanced'
'SO IT'S NOT BREXIT THEN HA HA HA'

This is what happens when you bring facts to a knife fight.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

We have a fair amount of ott bureaucrats and also hardcore remainers in the civil service drafting the rules, combine that with the big daddy of bureaucracy the EU and we arrive here. I also think the EU elite must view brexit britain as an existential threat, if we do alright outside the club it won't help their cause.

OK I'm really trying hard to follow your train of reasoning here mack, but I've got to be honest I'm having trouble with it.

So how come none of this stuff was a problem when we were in the EU (which by definition should have made it so much worse with all the red tape and bureaucracy ), and now we're out of the EU, bonfire of red tape and getting rid of all the bureaucracy etc, why has it got massively, objectively, obviously worse?

Is it possible, and I know this might sound a bit wild, that Brexit is actually the problem here?

 

[interlog]

Yes I know, we've done this already, the shortage of drivers is a multi-faceted and nuanced problem, and one of those is crap pay and conditions, and another one is Brexit.

It's hard to have this debate because it always goes:

'The shortage of drivers isn't all down to Brexit you know'
'I agree, I've never said it was, it's nuanced'
'SO IT'S NOT BREXIT THEN HA HA HA'

This is what happens when you bring facts to a knife fight.

So why link to such articles?

 

[ChopleyIOM]

So why link to such articles?

Because it's all part of the wider debate, I guess Iceland are more affected by the Brexit side of things because they relied more on EU drivers who have gone home as a result of one, some, or all of the pandemic, IR35 and Brexit. (Iceland being a low cost budget type of outfit who will be looking to do everything as cheaply as possible.)

I've acknowledged multiple times in this thread that medium to long term, having our own UK drivers would be far better for 'UK Plc' as a whole, it's not great to have entire industries heavily reliant on cheap foreign labour, but we are where we are for now, and the Iceland managing director's suggestion that working visas be issued in the interim to ameliorate some of the negative consequences of Brexit is worth considering.

 

[interlog]

Because it's all part of the wider debate, I guess Iceland are more affected by the Brexit side of things because they relied more on EU drivers who have gone home as a result of one, some, or all of the pandemic, IR35 and Brexit. (Iceland being a low cost budget type of outfit who will be looking to do everything as cheaply as possible.)

I've acknowledged multiple times in this thread that medium to long term, having our own UK drivers would be far better for 'UK Plc' as a whole, it's not great to have entire industries heavily reliant on cheap foreign labour, but we are where we are for now, and the Iceland managing director's suggestion that working visas be issued in the interim to ameliorate some of the negative consequences of Brexit is worth considering.

Margins within our industry are wafer thin. Every supermarket cuts costs and part of these cost cutting practices has resulted in stuff not getting on the shelf. Just go through historic newspaper articles and look at the number of redundancies made by all of the supermarkets.

And when supermarkets try to amalgamate their operations in order to compete with the "German competition", it gets knocked on the head by the CMA.

It simply is a race to the bottom and as a result of that, things will suffer.

 

[interlog]

Margins within our industry are wafer thin. Every supermarket cuts costs and part of these cost cutting practices has resulted in stuff not getting on the shelf. Just go through historic newspaper articles and look at the number of redundancies made by all of the supermarkets.

And when supermarkets try to amalgamate their operations in order to compete with the "German competition", it gets knocked on the head by the CMA.

It simply is a race to the bottom and as a result of that, things will suffer.

This was predicted back in 2003:

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[ChopleyIOM]

Margins within our industry are wafer thin. Every supermarket cuts costs and part of these cost cutting practices has resulted in stuff not getting on the shelf. Just go through historic newspaper articles and look at the number of redundancies made by all of the supermarkets.

And when supermarkets try to amalgamate their operations in order to compete with the "German competition", it gets knocked on the head by the CMA.

It simply is a race to the bottom and as a result of that, things will suffer.

Again interlog, I don't disagree with you, the goal of capitalism is to make as much money as possible from as little outlay as possible, and workers get the shaft as part of that process, particularly where they're not unionised. or or aren't allowed to be unionised. (And then we end up with Amazon drivers pissing in plastic bottles in the back of their vans because they can't afford to take toilet breaks.)

My grandfather on my dad's side was a long distance LGV driver, and he earned enough in that job to support an entire household of his wife and three children (my dad and two uncles), they weren't rich and my grandma took work on the side where possible, but fundamentally it was a difficult, tough, demanding, but also reasonably well paid job.

I'm wondering if there's more we agree on when it comes to some aspects of this than we disagree on, the thing that irritates me is the insistence (not by yourself) from some quarters that everything has to be binary, black or white, one thing or the other - NOTHING TO DO WITH BREXIT - or the flipside of that which is - WHY DO YOU HAVE TO BLAME EVERYTHING ON BREXIT? - and I'm like, that's not what I'm doing as a blanket statement, when it comes to the driver shortage I keep doing the exact opposite and constantly stress that Brexit is one of many factors swirling as part of a very complex situation.

Now admittedly, when it comes to some other things, it is almost entirely the fault of Brexit, such as some SMEs who import/export to the EU finding themselves well and truly shafted now we're out of the Customs Union and Single Market - but that's not an argument I'm making, at all, when it comes to driver shortages.

 

[interlog]

Again interlog, I don't disagree with you, the goal of capitalism is to make as much money as possible from as little outlay as possible, and workers get the shaft as part of that process, particularly where they're not unionised. or or aren't allowed to be unionised. (And then we end up with Amazon drivers pissing in plastic bottles in the back of their vans because they can't afford to take toilet breaks.)

My grandfather on my dad's side was a long distance LGV driver, and he earned enough in that job to support an entire household of his wife and three children (my dad and two uncles), they weren't rich and my grandma took work on the side where possible, but fundamentally it was a difficult, tough, demanding, but also reasonably well paid job.

I'm wondering if there's more we agree on when it comes to some aspects of this than we disagree on, the thing that irritates me is the insistence (not by yourself) from some quarters that everything has to be binary, black or white, one thing or the other - NOTHING TO DO WITH BREXIT - or the flipside of that which is - WHY DO YOU HAVE TO BLAME EVERYTHING ON BREXIT? - and I'm like, that's not what I'm doing as a blanket statement, when it comes to the driver shortage I keep doing the exact opposite and constantly stress that Brexit is one of many factors swirling as part of a very complex situation.

Now admittedly, when it comes to some other things, it is almost entirely the fault of Brexit, such as some SMEs who import/export to the EU finding themselves well and truly shafted now we're out of the Customs Union and Single Market - but that's not an argument I'm making, at all, when it comes to driver shortages.

In terms of the long distance operation, I have been in this industry long enough to know that the demise of this kicked off, ironically, when the Southern European transport companies came on the scene with their brand new EU subsidized vehicles. They could do the job so much cheaper which in turn resulted in the race to the bottom. Add to that the expansion of the EU to the east with cheaper labour and the UK haulage industry was doomed.

So yes, a European issue, but not quite Brexit!

 

[Daavid63]

Yes I know, we've done this already, the shortage of drivers is a multi-faceted and nuanced problem, and one of those is crap pay and conditions, and another one is Brexit.

It's hard to have this debate because it always goes:

'The shortage of drivers isn't all down to Brexit you know'
'I agree, I've never said it was, it's nuanced'
'SO IT'S NOT BREXIT THEN HA HA HA'

This is what happens when you bring facts to a knife fight.

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?

 

[mack341]

OK I'm really trying hard to follow your train of reasoning here mack, but I've got to be honest I'm having trouble with it.

So how come none of this stuff was a problem when we were in the EU (which by definition should have made it so much worse with all the red tape and bureaucracy ), and now we're out of the EU, bonfire of red tape and getting rid of all the bureaucracy etc, why has it got massively, objectively, obviously worse?

Is it possible, and I know this might sound a bit wild, that Brexit is actually the problem here?

It's such a wonderful club to be in you can never leave without it beng a catastrophe, the EU would never act to make life more difficult for any that do leave, they're too nice and decent for anything like that, silly me for even thinking it might be possible....

 

[dunover]

I suppose it's Brexit that has put ARSEnal at the bottom of the Premier League with 0 points from 3 games and 0 goals scored?

 

[paul7388]

I suppose it's Brexit that has put ARSEnal at the bottom of the Premier League with 0 points from 3 games and 0 goals scored?

No it is because they are shite.

 

[dunover]

No it is because they are shite.

Indeed, but everything shite in the UK is down to brexit, right?

 

[geordiecolin]

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?

They can take their choice from the Afghan's who where trained to drive HGV's by our forces and the Taliban who will soon learn to drive all of those HGV's left behind.
At least those EU countries that are not building walls to prevent them getting into Europe.
Barriors and barbed wire are going up in countries that are in the open boarders and are signed up to the shengen zone. Greece,Poland Hungery and others are taking actions to prevent Afghans entering which means the med sea will become the route to the likes of Germany,France,the UK as well as other EU destinations.
What a show of EU unity is that?
Another shit show that will last for years I would guess?
As an aside. Barnier is considering standing against Macron as a pres candidate on an anti immigration ticket. Is this just an attempt to prevent Le Pen winning the election by splitting the French vote because as far as I can see Macron is not very popular these days?

I am considering ditching selling powdered water in the Gobi to becoming a people smuggler. As long as I don't have to wear a mask and get jabbed!

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Indeed, but everything shite in the UK is down to brexit, right?

Ahhh as reductive as ever dunover, don't ever change

Equally, it is difficult to separate out Brexit from other causes, especially the pandemic, and some of the

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. But we can say with certainty that Brexit is one of these causes, that some companies and trade bodies

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, and that where supply problems are to do with post-Brexit trade barriers with the EU they are, by definition, entirely caused by Brexit. That the exact extent of the role played by Brexit in some of this is hard to determine offers Brexiters a chance to downplay it,

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, but doing so misses the key point: whilst, along with other countries, the UK faces supply chain problems beyond its control, the UK, uniquely, has chosen to add to them.

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[ChopleyIOM]

It's such a wonderful club to be in you can never leave without it beng a catastrophe, the EU would never act to make life more difficult for any that do leave, they're too nice and decent for anything like that, silly me for even thinking it might be possible....

I'll defer to the ever incisive Chris Grey on this one mack, he's put it far better than I could.

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Against that, many reports in the pro-Brexit press continue to be in denial. A

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claimed to have undertaken an “investigation” that enabled it to “reveal” extensive and costly barriers to trade since the end of the transition period. That is hardly the triumph of investigative journalism it purported to be, but more importantly nowhere was it acknowledged that these things are a consequence of the UK’s choice to undertake hard Brexit, and the headline reference to “the EU border blockade” implied, as usual, that something unfair or punitive had been done to the UK by the EU. Similarly,

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, also reporting on the barriers facing exporters to the EU, identified the need for “urgent talks” to reduce the checks that were being “forced” on British firms by the EU, as if these checks were not the result of the form of Brexit the UK chose and the Express itself vociferously supported.

Again this goes deep into the Brexit process, in several ways. First, it reflects the refusal to understand or to admit that Brexit would have costs, and that the harder the Brexit the higher the costs. So when these were warned of it was dismissed as Project Fear, and as they emerge they are ascribed to EU punishment. For that matter, even now Brexiters seem unable to decide whether talk of Brexit damage to trade is

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or, as in the two reports just discussed, an EU plot. Secondly, and more deeply, it continues the longstanding pattern whereby

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rather than choosing to do so. It is the failure to be honest about the choices Brexit entailed which remains crucial.

 

[mack341]

I'll defer to the ever incisive Chris Grey on this one mack, he's put it far better than I could.

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Against that, many reports in the pro-Brexit press continue to be in denial. A

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

claimed to have undertaken an “investigation” that enabled it to “reveal” extensive and costly barriers to trade since the end of the transition period. That is hardly the triumph of investigative journalism it purported to be, but more importantly nowhere was it acknowledged that these things are a consequence of the UK’s choice to undertake hard Brexit, and the headline reference to “the EU border blockade” implied, as usual, that something unfair or punitive had been done to the UK by the EU. Similarly,

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

, also reporting on the barriers facing exporters to the EU, identified the need for “urgent talks” to reduce the checks that were being “forced” on British firms by the EU, as if these checks were not the result of the form of Brexit the UK chose and the Express itself vociferously supported.

Again this goes deep into the Brexit process, in several ways. First, it reflects the refusal to understand or to admit that Brexit would have costs, and that the harder the Brexit the higher the costs. So when these were warned of it was dismissed as Project Fear, and as they emerge they are ascribed to EU punishment. For that matter, even now Brexiters seem unable to decide whether talk of Brexit damage to trade is

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

or, as in the two reports just discussed, an EU plot. Secondly, and more deeply, it continues the longstanding pattern whereby

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

rather than choosing to do so. It is the failure to be honest about the choices Brexit entailed which remains crucial.

My initial response is why did we bother to spend 3 years negotiating a 'free trade' deal, if the new setup has replaced the financial burden of tariffs with that of red tape, but without clear examples of specific bureaucracy issues e.g. Say for a small furniture exporter, I'll just be arguing headlines.

 

[bamberfishcake]

I suppose it's Brexit that has put ARSEnal at the bottom of the Premier League with 0 points from 3 games and 0 goals scored?

No it is because they are shite.

These two posts gave me my morning laugh, thank you.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

My initial response is why did we bother to spend 3 years negotiating a 'free trade' deal, if the new setup has replaced the financial burden of tariffs with that of red tape, but without clear examples of specific bureaucracy issues e.g. Say for a small furniture exporter, I'll just be arguing headlines.

Well that's kind of point, prior to Brexit we had no tariffs and no red tape.

Now after Brexit we have no tariffs (that was the bit the much trumpeted free trade agreement delivered), but a load of red tape and bureaucracy that comes from being a third country, outside the EU, and outside the Customs Union and Single Market.

All of this was known ahead of time, it's not a surprise. Or at least, it shouldn't be. (See also, the appearance of a border in either the Irish Sea or on the island of Ireland, one of which was an inevitability given the flavour of Brexit that was chosen.)

 

[mack341]

The eu are playing a game, sending a delivery back because 1 digit didn't match is an example I read, surely they're not sending things all the way back to canada, japan etc over minor paperwork faults?

 

[ChopleyIOM]

The eu are playing a game, sending a delivery back because 1 digit didn't match is an example I read, surely they're not sending things all the way back to canada, japan etc over minor paperwork faults?

If by 'playing a game' you mean 'following the rules' then yes, they are.

Turns out taking back control works in two directions.

 

[Daavid63]

I'll defer to the ever incisive Chris Grey on this one mack, he's put it far better than I could.

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Against that, many reports in the pro-Brexit press continue to be in denial. A

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

claimed to have undertaken an “investigation” that enabled it to “reveal” extensive and costly barriers to trade since the end of the transition period. That is hardly the triumph of investigative journalism it purported to be, but more importantly nowhere was it acknowledged that these things are a consequence of the UK’s choice to undertake hard Brexit, and the headline reference to “the EU border blockade” implied, as usual, that something unfair or punitive had been done to the UK by the EU. Similarly,

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

, also reporting on the barriers facing exporters to the EU, identified the need for “urgent talks” to reduce the checks that were being “forced” on British firms by the EU, as if these checks were not the result of the form of Brexit the UK chose and the Express itself vociferously supported.

Again this goes deep into the Brexit process, in several ways. First, it reflects the refusal to understand or to admit that Brexit would have costs, and that the harder the Brexit the higher the costs. So when these were warned of it was dismissed as Project Fear, and as they emerge they are ascribed to EU punishment. For that matter, even now Brexiters seem unable to decide whether talk of Brexit damage to trade is

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

or, as in the two reports just discussed, an EU plot. Secondly, and more deeply, it continues the longstanding pattern whereby

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rather than choosing to do so. It is the failure to be honest about the choices Brexit entailed which remains crucial.

Chris Grey

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"
I think, in particular, the unprocessed

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was one of the biggest, yet least recognized, causes. In a strange historical irony, in the long run it proved harder to ‘get over’ victory than to face up to defeat and occupation.

Whatever the reasons for the result, it remains the case that, prior to the Referendum,

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or disquiet. Leaving the EU was not, and is still not, some huge popular crusade or cause."

Hmmm?

Because there was no public interest in Brexit that's why Labour got smashed in the red wall, every political commentator said that was due to Labours stance on Brexit.
To mention WW2 as a cause is umm errr ummm a bit left field.

Next:

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Socialist Labour may as well have an IED vest strapped to them?

 

[dunover]

Look @ChopleyIOM - you need to get over this Brexit fixation mate, or obsession. We're out and that's it. Nobody said it would be a piece of piss. Think of it like a divorce.

One of you leaves the marital home. You now live separately which means that between you you make 2 shopping trips a week and only one before. You are now responsible for your own house maintenance, not shared, your own heating bills and phone bills whereas before they were pro-rata cheaper. As a single person you pay 75% council tax, whereas it was 100% for two. Communication is more awkward than before if you speak at all. Over time you get used to living and absorbing these extras, it's the price you are willing to pay for many positives:

No more arguments, better mental health. You can choose what YOU want to watch on TV. You can belch and fart as much as you like without aggro or moaning. You can paint the outside and inside of your home whatever fucking colours you like, hang whatever pictures on the wall you want, go to bed whatever time you choose. You are now free to form any relationship you like with people of your own choosing, or new relationships. It's now solely up to you as to whom comes into your house, how long they stay and when they've outstayed their welcome.

What is pointless really is somebody sniping from the sidelines like a bitter rejected partner saying things like, "oi (snigger snigger) now you're paying pro rata more Council Tax. Now you've got to pick your own shopping and choose the paint whereas I'd have done it for you. Now you've got to mow the lawn and do the weeding all by yourself and arrange the dinner dates, now you've no-one at home to take your deliveries in when your out and I bet YOU don't know which store to get your tomatoes 15% cheaper in..."

We get that it's a progressive arrangment with obstacles and arguments and negatives combined with positives. Some small business have had problems with export paperwork and import paperwork but many have embraced leaving and have entered new markets since and now wonder why they didn't do this before. It's the easiest thing to focus on every negative issue you can find, every article penned by bitter liberal or marxist remoaners in the commentariat of the Gradinua or Mirror. When years have passed and these are no longer relevant, what will you do? Sit there like some old colonel reminiscing about Britains glory days when we ruled a quarter of the globe, only in this case getting all misty eyed about the glorious 20-30 years when we were part of the expanded European Union? It sure sounds like you will mate!

 

[rtb123]

Look @ChopleyIOM - you need to get over this Brexit fixation mate, or obsession. We're out and that's it. Nobody said it would be a piece of piss. Think of it like a divorce.

One of you leaves the marital home. You now live separately which means that between you you make 2 shopping trips a week and only one before. You are now responsible for your own house maintenance, not shared, your own heating bills and phone bills whereas before they were pro-rata cheaper. As a single person you pay 75% council tax, whereas it was 100% for two. Communication is more awkward than before if you speak at all. Over time you get used to living and absorbing these extras, it's the price you are willing to pay for many positives:

No more arguments, better mental health. You can choose what YOU want to watch on TV. You can belch and fart as much as you like without aggro or moaning. You can paint the outside and inside of your home whatever fucking colours you like, hang whatever pictures on the wall you want, go to bed whatever time you choose. You are now free to form any relationship you like with people of your own choosing, or new relationships. It's now solely up to you as to whom comes into your house, how long they stay and when they've outstayed their welcome.

What is pointless really is somebody sniping from the sidelines like a bitter rejected partner saying things like, "oi (snigger snigger) now you're paying pro rata more Council Tax. Now you've got to pick your own shopping and choose the paint whereas I'd have done it for you. Now you've got to mow the lawn and do the weeding all by yourself and arrange the dinner dates, now you've no-one at home to take your deliveries in when your out and I bet YOU don't know which store to get your tomatoes 15% cheaper in..."

We get that it's a progressive arrangment with obstacles and arguments and negatives combined with positives. Some small business have had problems with export paperwork and import paperwork but many have embraced leaving and have entered new markets since and now wonder why they didn't do this before. It's the easiest thing to focus on every negative issue you can find, every article penned by bitter liberal or marxist remoaners in the commentariat of the Gradinua or Mirror. When years have passed and these are no longer relevant, what will you do? Sit there like some old colonel reminiscing about Britains glory days when we ruled a quarter of the globe, only in this case getting all misty eyed about the glorious 20-30 years when we were part of the expanded European Union? It sure sounds like you will mate!

I'd like to imagine while you were typing this that bastard Bonanza was running in the background with much swearing, belching and farting...

 

[pocoman]

Look @ChopleyIOM - Nobody said it would be a piece of piss.

Yes, they did. Repeatedly.

Paul Nuttal: "It will be so easy to negotiate a trade deal, and of course, it's in the European Union's interest, just as it is in ours"​

Gerard Batten: "A trade deal with the EU could be sorted out in an afternoon over a cup of coffee"​

Douglas Carswell: "I think free trade would be relatively straightforward between the UK and America"​

David Davis: "You can be sure there will be a deal"​

Boris Johnson: "There is no plan for no deal because we are going to get a great deal"​

Liam Fox: "The free trade agreement that we will have to do with the European Union should be one of the easiest in human history"​

Jacob Rees-Mogg: "The UK will be a better destination for investors once we have left the EU "​

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Look @ChopleyIOM - you need to get over this Brexit fixation mate, or obsession. We're out and that's it. Nobody said it would be a piece of piss. Think of it like a divorce.

One of you leaves the marital home. You now live separately which means that between you you make 2 shopping trips a week and only one before. You are now responsible for your own house maintenance, not shared, your own heating bills and phone bills whereas before they were pro-rata cheaper. As a single person you pay 75% council tax, whereas it was 100% for two. Communication is more awkward than before if you speak at all. Over time you get used to living and absorbing these extras, it's the price you are willing to pay for many positives:

No more arguments, better mental health. You can choose what YOU want to watch on TV. You can belch and fart as much as you like without aggro or moaning. You can paint the outside and inside of your home whatever fucking colours you like, hang whatever pictures on the wall you want, go to bed whatever time you choose. You are now free to form any relationship you like with people of your own choosing, or new relationships. It's now solely up to you as to whom comes into your house, how long they stay and when they've outstayed their welcome.

What is pointless really is somebody sniping from the sidelines like a bitter rejected partner saying things like, "oi (snigger snigger) now you're paying pro rata more Council Tax. Now you've got to pick your own shopping and choose the paint whereas I'd have done it for you. Now you've got to mow the lawn and do the weeding all by yourself and arrange the dinner dates, now you've no-one at home to take your deliveries in when your out and I bet YOU don't know which store to get your tomatoes 15% cheaper in..."

We get that it's a progressive arrangment with obstacles and arguments and negatives combined with positives. Some small business have had problems with export paperwork and import paperwork but many have embraced leaving and have entered new markets since and now wonder why they didn't do this before. It's the easiest thing to focus on every negative issue you can find, every article penned by bitter liberal or marxist remoaners in the commentariat of the Gradinua or Mirror. When years have passed and these are no longer relevant, what will you do? Sit there like some old colonel reminiscing about Britains glory days when we ruled a quarter of the globe, only in this case getting all misty eyed about the glorious 20-30 years when we were part of the expanded European Union? It sure sounds like you will mate!

I doff my cap to you dunover, imaginary men being able to do pretend farts in rooms that don't exist wasn't a benefit of leaving the EU I could have even possibly anticipated.

Call me an old fashioned romantic but I'll shoot bit a higher than 'farting rights' when it comes to binding international trade agreements that will last a decade or more.

What do you suggest for all the UK businesses that have gone bankrupt already, they didn't fart loud enough?

 

[mack341]

Being in the Eu is like having your street's busybody come round to your house and dictate where you can buy from, and how you manage your practical affairs 'no you can't run your washing machine on 40c, that's against the rules, 30 degrees max' etc... to think of all the meetings they must have in brussels, looking for the next thing to poke their nose into; we were handing them £200 million a week net to play with and waste, while folk here waited for nhs treatment or had treatment refused due to cost, homeless people out in the freezing cold all night etc...

It should've just been run as a free trade area with loose equivalence rules, at minimum cost, not all this parliament bollocks which is just there to give the whole operation a thin veneer of democracy.

 

[Kroffe]

folk here waited for nhs treatment or had treatment refused due to cost, homeless people out in the freezing cold all night etc...

So are those things fixed now that EU is out of the picture?

Honestly asking, like have they laid out some sort of plan/budget on how to spend the money that previously went to EU on UK projects instead?

 

[mack341]

So are those things fixed now that EU is out of the picture?

Honestly asking, like have they laid out some sort of plan/budget on how to spend the money that previously went to EU on UK projects instead?

what do you think? the same people that were happily handing over the 200m still run govt, it's a mindset thing, they don't really give much of a toss.

Once, or if ever, we get a cabinet of decent men, they should now have more uk tax funds to address the problems closer to home, but it's not an overnight process because we have a pretty fucked up system and a disconnect between the public and politics, every 4 years they make promises that they don't keep, and waste time/resources on issues that should be at the bottom of the list.

Edit: And we're still paying the Eu a boatload of money to boot, for pensions and commitments, they just use their combined sovereignty like a battering ram on trade, we'll have to suck it up and build stronger partnerships further afield. And chuckle at the eu's latest antics, which will never be far away round the next corner.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

what do you think? the same people that were happily handing over the 200m still run govt, it's a mindset thing, they don't really give much of a toss.

Once, or if ever, we get a cabinet of decent men, they should now have more uk tax funds to address the problems closer to home, but it's not an overnight process because we have a pretty fucked up system and a disconnect between the public and politics, every 4 years they make promises that they don't keep, and waste time/resources on issues that should be at the bottom of the list.

Edit: And we're still paying the Eu a boatload of money to boot, for pensions and commitments, they just use their combined sovereignty like a battering ram on trade, we'll have to suck it up and build stronger partnerships further afield. And chuckle at the eu's latest antics, which will never be far away round the next corner.

For clarity Kroffe, the answer to your question is 'no'.

Brexiters are now going through the five stages of grief, I think we're still at the 'denial' stage so quite a long way to go.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Schools told to prepare for food shortages.

Children told to enjoy farting whenever they want as an alternative to eating.

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The Federation of Wholesale Distributors is continuing to call on the government to look again at introducing a temporary visa scheme to allow HGV drivers from the EU to fill vacancies and relieve the pressure.

 

[mack341]

They'll have to bring a packed lunch, you can probably make a lot of sandwiches with two hundred mil

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I'm wondering if there's any point at which it might be admitted that things have gone somewhat wrong.

The school children who often rely most on school meals are those from underprivileged backgrounds.

It's easy to say, 'LOL Nando's is rubbish who eats there anyway', perhaps not so easy to say, 'LOL poor children going hungry they should have more money, losers'.

 

[dunover]

As the second most obese nation after the USA, surely food rationing will assist the general health of the lower classes considering they suffer most from overfeeding and crap diets? And you need to eat to fart by the way, I know. Don't forget it's hardly famine we are talking about is it? And given the sizeable shortage of HGV drivers in the EU as we saw in that article here the other day, what makes you think they'll choose the UK to operate in rather than their home countries?

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Kate Before.

Kate After.