This may be a bit long winded to please bear with me:
After I claimed and played the signup bonus at BetFred casino back in 2006 I was told immediately afterwards I was no longer welcome to any promotions unless I played in the casino without claiming a bonus. However I was not mererly interested in the bonuses on offer and continued to be a regular player there and have deposited, played won money and lost money. The natural way of gambling.
This weekend, From Thursday to Saturday BetFred casino have been running a promotion, where you get a 20% bonus on all deposits over the course of the promotion upto a maximum of 400. You had to email them to opt into the promotion. There was a choice of an ALL GAMES bonus and a MOST games bonus. I chose the ALL GAMES bonus, bearing in mind I haven't had any promotions from the casino for months and months and have been playing there with my own money. The agent replied saying I could now play for the ALL GAMES bonus and that my VIP level was now at Silver. Allowing me to claim promotions with lower wagering requirements and more games allowed. The second tier ranking for its loyal players.
Details of this promotion are here:
The terms for the all games bonus were 12 x deposit+bonus on any game. But on Friday afternoon were changed to exclude several games and increase the wagering to 25x deposit+bonus, how they can still call legitimately or legally call that an ALL GAMES bonus im not sure?.
On thursday night, and before the T&C changes I attempted a 2000 deposit in one go but my bank declined it so I though I would claim the bonus in sections as would appear to be allowed since the bonus is 20% on all deposits to a maximum of 400 bonus. I deposited 500 into the casino, recieved a 100 bonus wagered and lost my deposit and bonus. I was playing Blackjack at 10/hand and wagered about 5000 when I bust out to zero. I deposited another 500, recieved the second 100 bonus, wagered over 7200 and withdrew 860 odd to the sportsbook. I attempted a further deposit with my card to the casino but again this was declined so I transferred from the sportsbook back into the casino. A pop up appeared giving me another 100 bonus, I wagered another 7200, withdrew and did the same again in order to claim the last 100 bonus of the 400 allowed. I then placed my withdrawal of a total of 1201 and yesterday was horrified to recieve this email:
I was angry at the allegation that I had not met the wagering requirements, I wagered what was required and more besides for each individual bonus claimed. In addition the casino software DOES NOT even physically allow you to withdraw funds if you have not met the required wagering requirements anyway and I could not understand why it was such a problem for me to have claimed the bonus in the way I did and so sent the following email:
I subsequently recieved the following back:
Now it seems they have revoked my promotion privelages on the grounds that I transferred to the sportsbook and back into the casino, but bear in mind this was 'Real cash' any funds transferred from the sportsbook to the casino had met any terms with regards to bonuses attached to it and any sensible person would be able to see that a transfer from the sportsbook is no different to physically depositing funds by card. Which I also would have done anyway in the first instance had my bank not declined the original 2000 deposit in one go. I have sent them a final email but coming here was the only other thing I could think of to do. I have at least requested that they change the clause from 'other transfers' to 'sportsbook transfers' so it is more clear and makes more sense.
This is the final email I sent:
I don't see what difference a transfer to and from the sportsbook makes and why it is frowned upon. It surely makes no difference to the casino whether funds came from the sportsbook or a fresh deposit from a card if all wager requirements have been met. It seems they think they can do what they like. 'other transfers' could mean anything. What about if you make a telephone deposit?, even a Neteller deposit could be interpreted not to be a 'Real cash' deposit. Or even a card deposit, a debit card does not hold real cash. It is an electronic 'transfer' from a debit/credit card to an electronic betting account. It is NOT real cash, so in my opinion that particular term cannot be considered an enforcible one.
After I claimed and played the signup bonus at BetFred casino back in 2006 I was told immediately afterwards I was no longer welcome to any promotions unless I played in the casino without claiming a bonus. However I was not mererly interested in the bonuses on offer and continued to be a regular player there and have deposited, played won money and lost money. The natural way of gambling.
This weekend, From Thursday to Saturday BetFred casino have been running a promotion, where you get a 20% bonus on all deposits over the course of the promotion upto a maximum of 400. You had to email them to opt into the promotion. There was a choice of an ALL GAMES bonus and a MOST games bonus. I chose the ALL GAMES bonus, bearing in mind I haven't had any promotions from the casino for months and months and have been playing there with my own money. The agent replied saying I could now play for the ALL GAMES bonus and that my VIP level was now at Silver. Allowing me to claim promotions with lower wagering requirements and more games allowed. The second tier ranking for its loyal players.
Details of this promotion are here:
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The terms for the all games bonus were 12 x deposit+bonus on any game. But on Friday afternoon were changed to exclude several games and increase the wagering to 25x deposit+bonus, how they can still call legitimately or legally call that an ALL GAMES bonus im not sure?.
On thursday night, and before the T&C changes I attempted a 2000 deposit in one go but my bank declined it so I though I would claim the bonus in sections as would appear to be allowed since the bonus is 20% on all deposits to a maximum of 400 bonus. I deposited 500 into the casino, recieved a 100 bonus wagered and lost my deposit and bonus. I was playing Blackjack at 10/hand and wagered about 5000 when I bust out to zero. I deposited another 500, recieved the second 100 bonus, wagered over 7200 and withdrew 860 odd to the sportsbook. I attempted a further deposit with my card to the casino but again this was declined so I transferred from the sportsbook back into the casino. A pop up appeared giving me another 100 bonus, I wagered another 7200, withdrew and did the same again in order to claim the last 100 bonus of the 400 allowed. I then placed my withdrawal of a total of 1201 and yesterday was horrified to recieve this email:
Dear Player,
Thank you for playing with Betfred Casino.
You recently requested a withdrawal for 1222.01. After a review of your recent game play we can see that you have not been completing the wagering requirements for the bonus funds received. Kindly note, you must complete the required wagering before you can withdraw the bonus funds along with any winnings. Simply withdrawing your initial deposit before completing the required wagering will result in no further bonuses being awarded in the future.
In addition to this we can also see that you have been transferring funds from chips to sports and vice versa to receive multiple bonuses. The below is stated via our General Bonus Rules
YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO WITHDRAW ANY WINNINGS UNTIL YOU HAVE MET WAGERING REQUIREMENTS this includes transferring to Sportsbook or withdrawing from the poker and/or bingo clients. Any withdrawal requests will be rejected until wagering requirements are met or winnings void at the discretion of management.
Bonuses will only be valid on real cash deposits other transfers will result in the voiding of any bonus and winnings at our discretion.
On this occasion we have permitted your withdrawal request. However it is with regret that we have to inform you that we will no longer be able to offer you bonuses in the future.
If you have any queries please do not hesitate to contact us.
Kind Regards,
Phil Lam
Deputy Casino Manager
www.betfredcasino.com
I was angry at the allegation that I had not met the wagering requirements, I wagered what was required and more besides for each individual bonus claimed. In addition the casino software DOES NOT even physically allow you to withdraw funds if you have not met the required wagering requirements anyway and I could not understand why it was such a problem for me to have claimed the bonus in the way I did and so sent the following email:
Dear sir/madam,
Is the email I have recieved a mistake or something because I completely refute the claims and allegations made against me regarding my recent withdrawal. I have deposited and played in your casino for months and months without recieving any kinds of bonuses. Including Deposits and losses sometimes in the region of 500 or more, if you review my play and deposit history this will be supported. I emailed to opt in to your 400 cash giveaway promotion in good faith because I felt it was an interesting promotion and was able to play my favourite game which is Blackjack and the minute I withdraw from it you make all kinds of allegations that I have somehow abused it?.
I have completed the wagering requirements in full for this promotion. On thursday the terms and conditions of the all games bonus were 12x the deposit and bonus amounts. I deposited 500 into the casino, and recieved a 100 bonus, playing large hands. This would have a 7200 wager requirement 12x(100+500). I lost all of my deposit and bonus and subsequently deposited another 500, recieving another 100 bonus. This I played through in full and did not withdraw before completing. I notice you have now adjusted the terms and conditions but have not seen these until today and I'm sorry if I haven't complied with the new ones but I simply genuinely did not see them.
After completing the wagering I did withdraw to the sportsbook and then claimed another part of the bonus by transferring back into the casino, There is nothing wrong with doing this according to your own terms and conditions. You are offering a 20% bonus on all deposits upto a maximum of 400, and the terms state "We will match ALL of your deposits by 20% up to a maximum of 400.00". If it was a single deposit that was required then I could understand it.
If there is really a problem with my wagering you could have simply declined the withdrawal and explained to me what I'd done wrong and allowed me to wager further or inform me of my mistake.
I would be greatful if you could review my account and take into account the fact that I have been a regular player in your casino WITHOUT recieving bonuses in the past however if you intend to punish me by excluding me from any kind of benefit for playing in the casino then I may as well take my custom elsewhere as I do not expect this kind of hassle, inconvenience and aggrivation just for opting in to a single promotion after months of non-promotional play.
Yours sincerely
rpalmer83
I subsequently recieved the following back:
Dear Player,
Thank you for contacting Betfred Casino Support.
Firstly please rest assured that this email is genuine.
In reference to your deposits and game play previously kindly note that this has no bearing on the bonus funds recently received or the terms & conditions attached. After reviewing your account details we can confirm that on 12/03/09 you deposited a total of 978.00. On 13/03/09 you then transferred 500.00 from sports to chips and claimed a 100.00 bonus. You then transferred a further 510.00 from sports to chips and claimed a further 100.00 bonus.
As stated via our General Bonus Rules Bonuses will only be valid on real cash deposits other transfers will result in the voiding of any bonus and winnings at our discretion.
On this occasion we have used our discretion and have not voided your winnings, this is partly due to the fact that you have been a loyal players since joining and have had considerable losses previously.
However I am afraid that this decision is final for the immediate future. We hope that you can appreciate that our General House Rules need to be adhered to ensure that we can continue to offer the best possible bonuses to our players. Obviously if you continue to play over the next 6-8 weeks please do not hesitate to contact us and we will happily review your account details to see if you are eligible to receive bonus funds again.
We hope that this is satisfactory and if you have any further queries please do not hesitate to contact us.
Kind Regards,
Phil Lam
Deputy Casino Manager
www.betfredcasino.com
Now it seems they have revoked my promotion privelages on the grounds that I transferred to the sportsbook and back into the casino, but bear in mind this was 'Real cash' any funds transferred from the sportsbook to the casino had met any terms with regards to bonuses attached to it and any sensible person would be able to see that a transfer from the sportsbook is no different to physically depositing funds by card. Which I also would have done anyway in the first instance had my bank not declined the original 2000 deposit in one go. I have sent them a final email but coming here was the only other thing I could think of to do. I have at least requested that they change the clause from 'other transfers' to 'sportsbook transfers' so it is more clear and makes more sense.
This is the final email I sent:
Dear Mr lam,
I do not understand the issue here at all, so it is against the rules to make transfers from the sportsbook into the casino when claiming promotions?. In which case I do feel you should update the term you have quoted to me then to reflect that sportsbook transfers are not allowed when claiming promotions as 'other transfers' is a very loose term and could mean anything.
Again, I met the wager requirements in sections. I wanted to claim the full bonus amount immediately but my bank would not authorise a deposit of 2000, They also contacted me on Friday morning as a fraud prevention measure to confirm my deposits into your casino were genuine and not fraudulent. So I felt that depositing 500 in increments and wagering the full amount of 500 + 100 bonus x 12 = 7200 each time as stipulated in the terms and conditions would be acceptable. Indeed I thought this would be acceptable given the fact the promotion was billed as 'matching ALL deposits by 20% upto a maximum of 400. I had no idea that I would be somehow abusing the promotion.
The end result is the same. A 400 bonus for 29,000 wagered. I never withdrew any funds without meeting the terms and conditions. Surely also a withdrawal to the sportsbook then redepositing to the casino is no different to withdrawing back to card then redepositing from card again?.
I find it quite bizzare being upgraded to Silver VIP status on thursday afternoon, obviously reflecting the amount of play and losses without bonus funds in the casino over the past few months and the minute I participate in a promotion I am told I have abused it and am no longer welcome to anymore.
You have said the decision is final, but I do not agree with it, and my future play in the casino will certainly have to be a considered one. As much as I enjoy your casino I do not want to be made to feel like a criminal just for being a loyal customer.
Yours sincerely
rpalmer83
I don't see what difference a transfer to and from the sportsbook makes and why it is frowned upon. It surely makes no difference to the casino whether funds came from the sportsbook or a fresh deposit from a card if all wager requirements have been met. It seems they think they can do what they like. 'other transfers' could mean anything. What about if you make a telephone deposit?, even a Neteller deposit could be interpreted not to be a 'Real cash' deposit. Or even a card deposit, a debit card does not hold real cash. It is an electronic 'transfer' from a debit/credit card to an electronic betting account. It is NOT real cash, so in my opinion that particular term cannot be considered an enforcible one.
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