AWP/Fruities

[Dipity]

What about nudges? Useless exercise? I especially hate those that give nothing after i finally gamble it to 4.

Very interested in the nudge question too.

 

[ssecca01]

So I have another question about AWPs. When you've hit a jackpot feature on one and you know it has nothing more to give at the moment how long do you wait until you start to play it again or does it not really matter and it is just a matter of building up the "hopper" again so to speak? I remember reading a month or so ago in this thread or another old one that a AWP can randomly receive an injection into the "hopper" which is what gives a "megastreak" but do you have to be playing it for that to happen or...?

This was probably a stupid thing to ask but i'm such a idiot when it comes to these things lol.

 

[Nifty29]

So I have another question about AWPs. When you've hit a jackpot feature on one and you know it has nothing more to give at the moment how long do you wait until you start to play it again or does it not really matter and it is just a matter of building up the "hopper" again so to speak? I remember reading a month or so ago in this thread or another old one that a AWP can randomly receive an injection into the "hopper" which is what gives a "megastreak" but do you have to be playing it for that to happen or...?

This was probably a stupid thing to ask but i'm such a idiot when it comes to these things lol.

Not a silly question at all.

The rule of thumb is that once it is dead - get the hell out.

Whether you can hit again next time depends on the game. Treasure Island and its clones need to be built up again (unless you hit a random streak which is very unlikely). The other games are very much about timing and bet as they appear to have a "common pot" which can be emptied by anyone at any time.

The nudge thing is predetermined, so if you nudge the wrong reels it doesn't matter. Also, sometimes four nudges will give nothing....it is all part of the illusion.

I'm sure Vinyl will add a very brief explanation of his own.

 

[ssecca01]

Not a silly question at all.

The rule of thumb is that once it is dead - get the hell out.

Whether you can hit again next time depends on the game. Treasure Island and its clones need to be built up again (unless you hit a random streak which is very unlikely). The other games are very much about timing and bet as they appear to have a "common pot" which can be emptied by anyone at any time.

The nudge thing is predetermined, so if you nudge the wrong reels it doesn't matter. Also, sometimes four nudges will give nothing....it is all part of the illusion.

I'm sure Vinyl will add a very brief explanation of his own.

So with a game like Treasure Island it sounds almost hopeless to ever make profit off of it if all winnings except the rare megastreak are from your own build up.

 

[Nifty29]

So with a game like Treasure Island it sounds almost hopeless to ever make profit off of it if all winnings except the rare megastreak are from your own build up.

Yup, pretty much.

Unless you hit a megastreak, which I suspect might come from some kind of "side common pot" which takes a small % from every players bet. I don't know that for a fact though.

Vinylweatherman knows more about the AWPs...he hit some big win a while back but I can't remember how much or where...

 

[vinylweatherman]

So with a game like Treasure Island it sounds almost hopeless to ever make profit off of it if all winnings except the rare megastreak are from your own build up.

That's where any profit comes from. These streaks are VERY large compared to even the best free spin rounds on the video slots. They seem to come along every 2 to 3 dozen cycles through the machine. I have noticed that changing stake seems to have some bearing, as quite a few megastreaks have come on the first feature after a stake increase. Unfortunately, I have no idea if there is any way to predict the right time to do this, as 99% of the time it does nothing out of the ordinary.

I have also noticed that you can put 10K+ into TI, yet the build up still doesnt make 5K, which is a sub 50% RTP on that particular cycle. I suspect these "dud" cycles are what feeds this "common pot" that injects the occasional megastreak into the game.

Many of the AWP games work in a similar manner, and they are all still present in the casino, and more are added. The ONLY two that have been mysteriously pulled from a large number of MGS casinos are Treasure Ireland and GeeGees, and even there only from the download, they are still present in Flash. There must be something about these two that many operators are worried about, since the decision to pull these games permanently, rather than accept them back after Microgaming "chipped" them in 2010, is made at operator level.

My monster hit on TI was at 32Red, and 32Red is one of the casinos not wanting this game back in the download. Jackpot Factory have also decided not to have this pair back, bnut Casino Rewards are happy to have them, and even put them back into casinos they take over from operators that decided not to have them back. They got put back into GNUF and Betway when Palace Group took over, so are presumably present in all Palace Group casinos.

It is possible that an unusual number of megastreaks at individual casinos has made it look like there is a bug in the games that makes the RTP exceed 100%, and with no obvious cause, operators have decided to ditch the games. It seems they don't worry about the Flash versions, which makes me wonder if they work differently.

If all the money gets fed in, say, at Casino Rewards, and comes out of Jackpot Factory via megastreaks, it is easy to see how Jackpot Factory could think there is something wrong with the games, whilst Casino Rewards would be happy that they are making money off them.

 

[ssecca01]

That's where any profit comes from. These streaks are VERY large compared to even the best free spin rounds on the video slots. They seem to come along every 2 to 3 dozen cycles through the machine. I have noticed that changing stake seems to have some bearing, as quite a few megastreaks have come on the first feature after a stake increase. Unfortunately, I have no idea if there is any way to predict the right time to do this, as 99% of the time it does nothing out of the ordinary.

By every 2 to 3 dozen cycles you mean jackpot features?

 

[vinylweatherman]

By every 2 to 3 dozen cycles you mean jackpot features?

Not necessarily, any decent feature that finally looks good enough to tempt you to take it can be classed as the top of a cycle, after which you normally find the machine is stone cold again. The problem is that these games just make it so very obvious what is going on after you have played less than a dozen features. It is surprising that so many players even have to ask, just play a bit (fun mode will do), and it will quickly become obvious that there are these cycles and "pot building", even if you don't see any of these "megastreak" events.

 

[H1_Roller]

It is surprising that so many players even have to ask, just play a bit (fun mode will do), and it will quickly become obvious that there are these cycles and "pot building", even if you don't see any of these "megastreak" events.

I have done just this VWM, and yet still I get financially molested by them. Maybe I'm just blinded by what is right in front of me?

 

[vinylweatherman]

I have done just this VWM, and yet still I get financially molested by them. Maybe I'm just blinded by what is right in front of me?

You will. There can be some pretty bad cycles too. These are needed to fund the "megastreaks".

Have you tried lowering your stake to get the pot so as to start a new cycle?

This is a useful tactic if it appears you have got a duff cycle.

The thing to look for is reel wins. Even though they are mostly small, you are at least making progress. Long runs of dead spins with only a couple of small wins is an indicator that you are in a "bad patch", even a "bad cycle". Leave the game and try again another day. Perhaps start out with a different stake to see if the machine livens up. If it is repeatedly dead, drop the stake and empty the derisory pot. Leave. Come back another day and start again with your usual stake. This starts off a new cycle, which with luck will be better than the last.

Forging ahead on a dud cycle is what can "financially molest" you. I have put well over 10K in TI and STILL not managed to get near the 5K TI feature, and lowering the stake has revealed that only 30% or so of the 10K ever went into the pot. This means someone else had it during a streak, possibly a "megastreak".

If it was purely a "personal" instance of the game guaranteed to return 95% of what you put in, it would be even more obvious, and ultimately pointless to play because you could NEVER win.

 

[09237653]

Finally got my first big win on AWPs 503xbet, followed shortly after by 250xbet, i tried increasing the bet but it seemed to go dead soon after

 

[nikantw]

It is my humble opinion that there is no way to predict anything in slots! It's an illusion. From the 1000 times you think you "see" something coming you remember only the 15 you win and forget the 985 you lose.

It's like the double option. You think you have a 50-50 chance between black and red. The reality is that the machine has already decided if you are going to win or lose, before you make the choice.

Many have heard this, not all believe it, and almost nobody stops trying to predict if it is black or red!

There is no way to win. There is only a way not to lose everything back after a big hit!

 

[mattsgame]

It is my humble opinion that there is no way to predict anything in slots! It's an illusion. From the 1000 times you think you "see" something coming you remember only the 15 you win and forget the 985 you lose.

It's like the double option. You think you have a 50-50 chance between black and red. The reality is that the machine has already decided if you are going to win or lose, before you make the choice.

Many have heard this, not all believe it, and almost nobody stops trying to predict if it is black or red!

There is no way to win. There is only a way not to lose everything back after a big hit!

I agree with most of your thoughts there... but in this thread we are not talking about your General Slot Machine.. It's AWP's which is a different ball game all together.

Which I believe you can predict .. VWM is proof of this

I also feel I have had my fair share of instincts to stick with one AWP because its looking good and is playing out a different pattern and wella I hit the jackpot/top paying symbol etc. I am still learning a lot and there are so many to try study its not funny.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I agree with most of your thoughts there... but in this thread we are not talking about your General Slot Machine.. It's AWP's which is a different ball game all together.

Which I believe you can predict .. VWM is proof of this

I also feel I have had my fair share of instincts to stick with one AWP because its looking good and is playing out a different pattern and wella I hit the jackpot/top paying symbol etc. I am still learning a lot and there are so many to try study its not funny.

The fact that Treasure Ireland got yanked in December 2009 after my monster hit in June 2009 is a further suggestion that even casino operators and Microgaming are beginning to doubt their own assertion that the games are random.

Whilst some casinos still have Treasure Ireland, most do not, in the Viper client where I had the big hit.

The official story was that it got pulled because it didn't work properly with the tabbed gaming, and needed to be fixed. This was along with nearly a dozen other AWP games. They were all fixed long ago, INCLUDING Treasure Ireland, yet whilst the others got put back after they were fixed, Treasure Ireland and GeeGees were not apart from in a few operators' casinos.

In the 1990's, I got banned from quite a few places for "predicting random fruities"

 

[nikantw]

The fact that Treasure Ireland got yanked in December 2009 after my monster hit in June 2009 is a further suggestion that even casino operators and Microgaming are beginning to doubt their own assertion that the games are random.

Whilst some casinos still have Treasure Ireland, most do not, in the Viper client where I had the big hit.

The official story was that it got pulled because it didn't work properly with the tabbed gaming, and needed to be fixed. This was along with nearly a dozen other AWP games. They were all fixed long ago, INCLUDING Treasure Ireland, yet whilst the others got put back after they were fixed, Treasure Ireland and GeeGees were not apart from in a few operators' casinos.

In the 1990's, I got banned from quite a few places for "predicting random fruities"

Even if true, they would hire you or someone better than you, to test the games.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Even if true, they would hire you or someone better than you, to test the games.

I never said they didn't

Microgaming will often seek players to try out new games in order to get an opinion of whether it is worth going to launch. Players so invited are usually found via operators, who select players who have been with the casino for a while, and show a liking for the class of game involved.

Since such players often get to see a new game idea long before launch, they have to sign an agreement not to reveal details of said game in case it is stolen by another software company.

They also rely on reports fed back from operators, but it seems communications are poor, which is why so many bugs persist long after they have been reported, and also why each new report is greeted with "you are the first player to report this issue".

There is a reason why operators are running scared from these two games in particular, and it seems it is the Viper version that has them worried, not the Flash version, which has always been there, and is still there at all casinos that removed it from Viper.

 

[De Beuker]

I still dont get the whole fruity-thing.
I can understand that in the UK, where random slotmachines are not allowed outside the casinos, they come up with these AWP machines, just to bypass the law.

But why on earth did MG copy those things INCLUDING the bugs that make them predictable?
Are they not controlled by the RNG?

Another thing that puzzles me is that in a bar I can see VWM sit at the bar, drinking a beer and patiently wait until some poor sucker lost a small fortune on the AWP machine standing there in the corner, then he gets up, goes to the machine and empties it.
But online, many people can play the same game at the same time, right?
So the game may show signs that its gonna pop, but who says that its gonna pop on YOUR screen, and not on someone elses playing at the same time?

All together, I tend to stay away from online fruities, as I dont understand how they work and I refuse to indirectly fund VWM's Neteller account.

 

[Nifty29]

The fact that Treasure Ireland got yanked in December 2009 after my monster hit in June 2009 is a further suggestion that even casino operators and Microgaming are beginning to doubt their own assertion that the games are random.

Whilst some casinos still have Treasure Ireland, most do not, in the Viper client where I had the big hit.

The official story was that it got pulled because it didn't work properly with the tabbed gaming, and needed to be fixed. This was along with nearly a dozen other AWP games. They were all fixed long ago, INCLUDING Treasure Ireland, yet whilst the others got put back after they were fixed, Treasure Ireland and GeeGees were not apart from in a few operators' casinos.

In the 1990's, I got banned from quite a few places for "predicting random fruities"

I would dispute this assumption about the removal of certain fruities being a result of your win (can't remember how much it was again....).

If there was an error discovered due to your win, there is no way they would have waited 6 months to take them down, and it doesn't make sense that they would remove a host of others that were unrelated (I.e. not clones). Not only that, they all remained in the flash version.

I used to have technical issues with playing TI before, but it works fine now, so I think it was exactly what they said it was - technical issues within the download casino.

MG and operators would have debugging and monitoring software running 24/7 and you can rest assured it would shut down any game that was paying out too much very quickly to protect their revenue......they wouldn't let it go for 6 months. In addition, if a malfunction or error/bug caused large wins it is likely they would void such wins. No casino is going to take hits for $000,000 due to software errors.

There are a lot more logical reasons for these games being removed than your megastreak.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I would dispute this assumption about the removal of certain fruities being a result of your win (can't remember how much it was again....).

If there was an error discovered due to your win, there is no way they would have waited 6 months to take them down, and it doesn't make sense that they would remove a host of others that were unrelated (I.e. not clones). Not only that, they all remained in the flash version.

I used to have technical issues with playing TI before, but it works fine now, so I think it was exactly what they said it was - technical issues within the download casino.

MG and operators would have debugging and monitoring software running 24/7 and you can rest assured it would shut down any game that was paying out too much very quickly to protect their revenue......they wouldn't let it go for 6 months. In addition, if a malfunction or error/bug caused large wins it is likely they would void such wins. No casino is going to take hits for $000,000 due to software errors.

There are a lot more logical reasons for these games being removed than your megastreak.

The original reason was logical, but at the same time it was claimed the fix would take only 2 weeks, and the games would be back. Is it coincidence that the one machine I hit big on did NOT come back, whereas the others that were yanked came back in stages throughout 2010. Whenever operators are asked about this, they clam up.

I don't think an actual bug was found, but that big win was NOT a typical "megastreak" situation, and at the time looked like something had got "stuck", when it should have reset and caused the game to die.

In 2006 there WAS a bug in the slot "Chief's Fortune", and also "Diamond Deal". Despite this, the bug was live for over 3 months before both games got pulled, and even then they were pulled from only those casinos where the operator noticed, rather than a general recall by MGS. Quite a few casinos didn't put Chief's Fortune back even when MGS fixed the bug. There was never any announcement, and the issue caused one casino group to be removed from accredited over their desire to cover up what had happened. They even risked the rogue pit rather than tell Max or Bryan what had REALLY happened. I told Max about it at one of the Meister meetings in London, and he had never been told about it, even though he dealt with the string of PABs created by mass confiscations of winnings due to the bug. It was a simple "malfunction voids play" issue, fully covered in the terms, yet the casinos decided to hide behind "illegitimate play" rather than simply state that payouts were voided due to the game malfunctioning.

I also had a small £500 withdrawal held up for a week whilst Prime casino "investigated my account", even though they had paid over 6K just over a week earlier. I was then bonus banned at Ruby Fortune, as well as Prime, even though the £500 was paid the day after I said I was fully aware of the eCogra procedures they had quoted as justification for their investigation, and also aware that they had 14 days before I was free to make an official complaint to eCogra. This £500 came from around £30 worth of comps, which I built up by sucking any remaining value from TI at 10p a spin, before hitting a £400 feature on Bullseye after completing WR.

It really does seem that operators have been worried by some of the AWP games, and those that have returned seem to play different patterns to those from before the mass removal.

If there is nothing to this, why won't operators explain WHY these last two AWP games are never going to return to the majority of Viper casinos?

 

[Zepher]

Wow, what an awesome thread. Been looking for something like this for a while. Many thanks to VWM and others for the info in this thread, mucho's appreciated