Are we truly getting a fair deal?

[aceking123]

Again something just seems very odd after playing for many years.
This is going to be my final post on the matter & may well ruffle a few feathers.

It just does not feel random any longer prefixed I would say.

So yet another month goes by to where I've written the total losses down. A fairly heavy month of pretty poor play considering the 6k chunk of what I spent.

Nothing to show for it other than one day of complete won't surpass £1870 again came from a 400 deposit 7 times this went around that figure never once did it surpass that it did not matter which game was played, now this is more than strange it went down to a couple of hundred but ended up around 1k & again small flurry of ok features back up to 1800 like above this did it 7 times, repeat rinse repeat how is this possible? Random ? What are the odds of the same pattern?

There's more going on than we are led to believe.

Has anyone noticed these kind of trends in their play over the years.

 

[Jono777]

yup, as the years roll by the game time worsens

Also have to consider the constant reductions in RTP and increase in more and more higher and higher variance games

I had put my rigged suit and foil hat to one side, not so sure these days it was a good move.

Defo something going on and as I've said many times, to summarise in a single word, it would have to be 'greed'

 

[mina1929]

I had no luck at all for a while now and I am was thinking is it because I play the same slots all the time? So I decided to try a few different ones and still cold no matter what slot I try.

Deposit after deposit and I only deposit smaller amounts nothing huge, I don't even get game time and hardly even get back what I deposited and no doubling your deposit either. Maybe just need a break I think.

Well I do see other people winning but mainly people that bet high, high rollers winning thousands. I would be happy just to even double my small deposit.

I don't think slots are fixed but what do I know Not everyone is on a losing streak just me myself and I, also a lot of others

 

[Slotplayer83]

There's more going on than we are led to believe.

But they will debunk you here saying it's just mathematical. Dont believe the hype. Follow your inside. Try to change to a landbased for example. It will be a complete different experience for you. I had a talk with a rep on the casino. Long story short: they never discuss the details other then, "It's the provider" > obvious had some training not to head into discussion with client(s).

 

[neon claws]

my feathers are truly ruffled

 

[LoopsterAU]

I had no luck at all for a while now and I am was thinking is it because I play the same slots all the time? So I decided to try a few different ones and still cold no matter what slot I try.

Deposit after deposit and I only deposit smaller amounts nothing huge, I don't even get game time and hardly even get back what I deposited and no doubling your deposit either. Maybe just need a break I think.

Well I do see other people winning but mainly people that bet high, high rollers winning thousands. I would be happy just to even double my small deposit.

I don't think slots are fixed but what do I know Not everyone is on a losing streak just me myself and I, also a lot of others

Don't forget us people who bet bigger are turning over a set amount (lets use 10k as an example) a lot faster so this pattern that he is mentioning happens in cycles a lot more quickly and is a lot less noticeable (that's if you forget about the big hole it creates in our bank accounts) because a 2 - 3k win to you is a big deal due to betting low while a 3k win to us isn't even special anymore. Sure it will keep us happy for a day or two but that 3k doesn't last long when depositing and betting the way we do.

I have had that foil hat on for quite a while myself and have spent ridiculous amounts of money over the years and time and time again it seems to occur. Obviously I can't prove it besides some info I found the viewing source on web page after getting an error loading a game which had all sorts of fields in the info including biggest deposit size, if there is a pending withdrawal and all sorts of things like that which would make you wonder why its even there unless the casino management interface has an API that directly talks to the providers and enforces certain ranges (caps) that they must operate by.

In the case of the original post here it seems that win "cap" is $1800 and I am sure that amount would probably be determined by a combination of deposits vs withdrawals, if the player is lifetime in profit (very few) or in the hole in which case it would then work out based on depositing patterns how much of a win is just enough to give us just enough of a withdrawal to momentarily keep us happy so that we can keep coming back again and again and the cycle will happen over n over again.

 

[colly]

Also a very long term player and while I am not sure about capped wins etc I have found that a difference in play in the past year. I have had some large wins but wins do seem to be all or nothing at RTG these days and a large win is invariably followed by consistent losses till the next big win- no small but positive wins or break evens in between. I have also noticed the casinos having a realattitude problem if you do have a large win. How I miss the days or Microgaming and 32red!

 

[Mr_Slot5]

In the case of the original post here it seems that win "cap" is $1800 and I am sure that amount would probably be determined by a combination of deposits vs withdrawals, if the player is lifetime in profit (very few) or in the hole in which case it would then work out based on depositing patterns how much of a win is just enough to give us just enough of a withdrawal to momentarily keep us happy so that we can keep coming back again and again and the cycle will happen over n over again.

I’ve made this point in response to someone before. It would be highly beneficial to the casino for RTP flow to be managed. You could essentially micromanage it to ensure certain things do/do not happen. For example a ultra low roller having a ‘sod it’ moment and raising stakes to a point that they could win an amount that they would never plough back in (this could explain why biggest deposit amount was sent in the data packet to the provider that you spoke about).

Pretty much anything is possible behind the scenes these days.

It’s pretty much just all conjecture and what ifs though so I choose just to enjoy the games and go with the flow of it all. As I’ve said before, it is what it is.

 

[mina1929]

Also a very long term player and while I am not sure about capped wins etc I have found that a difference in play in the past year. I have had some large wins but wins do seem to be all or nothing at RTG these days and a large win is invariably followed by consistent losses till the next big win- no small but positive wins or break evens in between. I have also noticed the casinos having a realattitude problem if you do have a large win. How I miss the days or Microgaming and 32red!

I agree, missing the good old days where we could play most providers

 

[Eliot85]

When u win lets say 1000euro.. dont cash out rais stake to 30-50euro spin. Then u need only 1 good bonus and u have a nice cashout.. I do allways like this.. Sometimes it works somtime not.. Last mont it did i won 22k euro but then went on tilt and lost it all plus 7k of my own money... But im not sad,angry or anything like that.. I know one day it will come back again... I don think slots are rigged why should they rigg them. They don need to do it, we all knows hous will win... What i think is last day they have changed them it plays faster and there are many more nil win 0-20x. And a lots of more nearhit. So if u wont ti win big dont cash out 1000euro play with the casinos money and one day it will come?

 

[Eliot85]

The only slots i hate is ”bonous buy” i dont even play them so hard to trigger if u dont pay atleast 100x stake.. Hope they ban them soon.

 

[The Dude]

Admin note: changed the title from "Are we getting a fair online crack?" to "Are we getting a fair deal?" I didn't want to attract the crack heads to the forum here.

 

[Eliot85]

Admin note: changed the title from "Are we getting a fair online crack?" to "Are we getting a fair deal?" I didn't want to attract the crack heads to the forum here.

To late

 

[LoopsterAU]

When u win lets say 1000euro.. dont cash out rais stake to 30-50euro spin. Then u need only 1 good bonus and u have a nice cashout.. I do allways like this.. Sometimes it works somtime not.. Last mont it did i won 22k euro but then went on tilt and lost it all plus 7k of my own money... But im not sad,angry or anything like that.. I know one day it will come back again... I don think slots are rigged why should they rigg them. They don need to do it, we all knows hous will win... What i think is last day they have changed them it plays faster and there are many more nil win 0-20x. And a lots of more nearhit. So if u wont ti win big dont cash out 1000euro play with the casinos money and one day it will come?

I've had sessions where if im on a really good run and winning heaps I do (between $50 and $200) and even a couple of extreme sessions where I even got features on $500 (obviously they paid really bad according to the size of the bet but yes they are landable, but why did it not give me 1000x or 2000x on a $500 bet and instead garbage like 20x ?

They know my deposit history and know most deposits are around the $200 - $500 mark with some occasional $1000 and $2000 ones. I bet if I was depositing 10k on each deposit instead of my range those rare times I tried that and landed them I would at least get a 200 - 500x.

 

[pinnit2014]

Admin note: changed the title from "Are we getting a fair online crack?" to "Are we getting a fair deal?" I didn't want to attract the crack heads to the forum here.

Too late, i think there's a few knocking about

 

[orion]

Has anyone noticed these kind of trends in their play over the years.

yes but now we are at the lowest point ever.

luckily its just a matter of a few days and the land based casinos will re-open here.
Even if they will lower (as I am expecting they'll do) about 10% their usual RTPs, it would be anyway about 15% more than the actual online casinos.
And no sows, no verifications, no bullshit, no wager requirements on bonus you never wanted and never redeemed, no disconnections, no payments lost in the internet, no "send me a picture of your granma wearing a bikini and handling her birth certificate", no bonus round interrupted and vanished, no awful casino support people.

 

[Slotplayer83]

I just repeatedly hit a wall at a casino i play at. If i spunk it it'll take a few days or weeks even to 'get back at it' plus minus my deposits in between. The only thing random about it is when it's going to happen.

 

[Eliot85]

yes but now we are at the lowest point ever.

luckily its just a matter of a few days and the land based casinos will re-open here.
Even if they will lower (as I am expecting they'll do) about 10% their usual RTPs, it would be anyway about 15% more than the actual online casinos.
And no sows, no verifications, no bullshit, no wager requirements on bonus you never wanted and never redeemed, no disconnections, no payments lost in the internet, no "send me a picture of your granma wearing a bikini and handling her birth certificate", no bonus round interrupted and vanished, no awful casino support people.

+10

 

[Deeplay]

I think what it comes down apart from an awful decline in the way UK players are now seen as just a commodity - the gaming providors are pushing out more and more HV or EHV games. I watched one of @ChopleyIOM videos from like 2012 he posted on his YT over the weekend. Reminded me of just how far it has come from the enjoyable expereince it once was.

 

[YouTubeSlots]

I'm so happy people are noticing this more and more over the past few months. I mentioned this a year ago on the forum of how I don't believe they are random in the fucking slightest. And got talked down to by another member about how I wear a tin foil hat etc. So I just stopped commenting on it, but I'm glad to see my hat might not be made out of tinfoil and rather some other kind of material less crazier.

If the games were truly random then you could randomly keep on winning. You no there not random as to me most sessions play out the same. Were the bonuses come in thick and fast at the start and then just fall of the face of the earth along with your balance. And if you are lucky to hit one on your plummet to slot randomness death. You know it will be utter horse shit just to make you tilt and deposit again to try get a good bonus. Just my two cents

 

[Slotplayer83]

It's based on your deposit behaviour. And there's a few things along with it as well. Ive written it here before over and over, but my best bet is that an avg 95 to 98% of your initial deposit(s) apart from the frigging luck at initial signup, is just spread out even. Why else do they advocate the last 2 to 3 years the message that gambling online is'nt a way of making money. Do they mean with that the odds are so against us that's it's virtually impossible because it's not random?

The best strategy in gambling in my opinion is the moment you hit big on casino A, hit withdrawl, and never come back. You wont be hitting on avg again for quite a while. How is that random?

 

[TheAddict]

Well the "gambling isn't a way to make money" is a warning that it's not a good idea to try and gamble to get out of a bad financial situation. I'd assume it also helps cover their backs from a responsible gambling POV if someone does exactly that (and fails miserably).

 

[Slotplayer83]

"Responsible gambling" ... Come'on. A cashcow for any casino is a addicted gambler.

 

[TheAddict]

@Slotplayer83

Indeed m8, you're no doubt right. You don't have to be addicted in order to try and get yourself out of a financial hole via gambling though. But many desperate people will consider it.
But as we've seen, casinos can get big fines (at least, big from our POV perhaps) if players have shown signs of suddenly depositing wrecklessly and the casino failed to take notice of the sudden huge increase of deposits and bets, and some of the proper life changing disaster stories like that sometimes get into the newspapers. Neither of which they would wish to see happen.
And if either did, having warnings like that is a better reply to the ukgc or any newspaper article, than simply saying 'yeah we don't give a fuck how much they lose. That's why we don't bother witb all the responsible gambling garbabe. At least we're not lying though'.

That's all I was getting at


.

 

[Mr_Slot5]

Ahhh the days where casinos could throw no deposit bonuses at you for loyalty. Suited both parties...you got some free dosh and the casinos retained a paying customer.

Now all you get is some snotty nosed, scripted chat agent implying you have a gambling issue for daring to ask for a loyalty bonus. Thanks once again UKGC for somehow managing to make the whole online experience only mildly less painful than having a tooth pulled without anaesthetic

I think the last time I went into a live chat to enquire about a perk was 12-18 months ago at 32 Red to ask for a small ruby top up (was about 50 rubies from a tenner). 5 years ago it would have been their pleasure to do so. That time though, the woman acted like I'd just asked her to personally transfer me £50 from her current account.

The days of a 'fair' deal have long gone.

 

[Slotplayer83]

Apart from that, often chat is extremely busy and it might take like 15 minutes before it's your turn, to be told within 30 seconds they dont have anything for you. It's this typical behind the walls attitude of casino's that just puts players into a isolated and lonely experience to be honest. The casino, the games, everything is designed to LURE in players; give 'm a false sense of #whatever and make games as tilting as possible.

And something i personally encountered many many times; and yet here claim its all random or within my head; but when i deposit 3x 50, or 1x 150 in once, there's a huge variance in between all sessions. I'm talking about that the 150 straightup deposit yields a far better experience then the 3x 50 euro that usually nets me only my initial deposit at peak.

I'd almost say that, casino's are designed to favor higher depositting players better then the small ones. I dont know but i keep encountering this. Or have a free spins feature given; you got one at 50 spins at 20 cents (0.01ct demonination) that pays jack shit, and you got the ones at 0.05 denomination(s) that usually do well. But after the free spins feature ended, it's usually a nasty streak downwards.

Yesterday on accident i hit 2000x or so on a 20 cents bet. So my approach was to simply try at least 10 games at a reasonable bet. Even tho my patience and effort; it was all predetermined at that point in my experience. I got thrown in a bone and that was it. Everything was completely dead, that was untill the next deposit. Your always within this little circle and seriously out of 7 to 10 deposits all of them are dead by default. I consider the 2000x win which was around 400 euro's a sigar from my own box really.

I used to head to landbased; there is a simple trick really in order to go big or go bust, but it worked 8 out of 10 times. No you dont win as much as potential as online, but going in with 1000 and leaving with 3500 is'nt a bad session either, and best of all it's cash and you can leave without waiting 48 hours to be paid out. I just cant break it online; as the variance and randomness being send to oblivion is just out of this world.

At a proper machine you can at least expect or know when it's going to hit or pay; by simply looking at it's stats. It's bin dead for a while? Good, because i actually stand a chance. Most casino's hide where the big wins where; they dont even tell you if you ask 'm when the last big payout of DOA1 for example was. I was attempting for quite a while to play on 7.20 and i wagered over 8 grand or so.

sometimes it's just so impossible; and it just robs you from your money faster then you can take a proper shit. My gf is at this point wondering why i still attempt it. They always randomize something new to keep players simply hooked and make a even larger hole inside their finances. It would be so much easier if slots where genuine and offered a fair chance. Not being rekt 7 out of 10 times. Testimonial are quite a few people now here that just KNOW something is simply off.

The guy here that lost 14k in a day? He's right back at it; as seen on various casumo video's. I coud'nt imagine living my life like that really. It's hopeless, a lonely and money eating hobby.

 

[Eliot85]

I've had sessions where if im on a really good run and winning heaps I do (between $50 and $200) and even a couple of extreme sessions where I even got features on $500 (obviously they paid really bad according to the size of the bet but yes they are landable, but why did it not give me 1000x or 2000x on a $500 bet and instead garbage like 20x ?

They know my deposit history and know most deposits are around the $200 - $500 mark with some occasional $1000 and $2000 ones. I bet if I was depositing 10k on each deposit instead of my range those rare times I tried that and landed them I would at least get a 200 - 500x.

Ho know your deposits? I can say that my biggest cashouts have been when i gave started with 50-200euros. When i say big i mean 15keuro+.

 

[Eliot85]

Ahhh the days where casinos could throw no deposit bonuses at you for loyalty. Suited both parties...you got some free dosh and the casinos retained a paying customer.

Now all you get is some snotty nosed, scripted chat agent implying you have a gambling issue for daring to ask for a loyalty bonus. Thanks once again UKGC for somehow managing to make the whole online experience only mildly less painful than having a tooth pulled without anaesthetic

I think the last time I went into a live chat to enquire about a perk was 12-18 months ago at 32 Red to ask for a small ruby top up (was about 50 rubies from a tenner). 5 years ago it would have been their pleasure to do so. That time though, the woman acted like I'd just asked her to personally transfer me £50 from her current account.

The days of a 'fair' deal have long gone.

Yes miss those days... Couple of week ago i was playing at slots.io lost about 4500 euro and went to chat for a bonus.. The advised me to the loalytyclub got 17 euro bonus?

 

[trees]

everything is controlled.. never had such bad run cant win a dime.

these casinos gets greedier by the day.

and all the live roulette are controlled never seen the game finds so easy the perfect spot.
u are simply not able to keep winning.
the days when the microgaming client still was there was able to win regularly some money back.
its poisoned online gaming.

i love playing live roulette but not like this way.
back in days casinos are afraid u play blackjack or any roulette with a bonus .

nowadays the casino are not afraid and simply let u or give u bonus to play live dealers.
it tells something that they are not afraid of any player as it is controlled to make u lose when ever then want.

 

[Slotplayer83]

Usual live roulette comes with a "RTP" which on it's own should be a complete red flag for you that the game is not the same roulette as a roulette used in landbased. Because of the RTP it's kind of legal to rig it. And they dont even have to bother hiding it at all.

It's simular as a electronic roulette device. There's a RTP and once you bet big the ball starts to buzz the f around. It's all within parameters. Cant believe most people still going for the same old scam. I understand spawning up a online casino is much faster and convenient then actually going out to a landbased.

But try to get out of that bubble for a change. You'll feel better and you'll understand you dont need the online business. They need you.

 

[cncas2123]

Usual live roulette comes with a "RTP" which on it's own should be a complete red flag for you that the game is not the same roulette as a roulette used in landbased. Because of the RTP it's kind of legal to rig it. And they dont even have to bother hiding it at all.

It's simular as a electronic roulette device. There's a RTP and once you bet big the ball starts to buzz the f around. It's all within parameters. Cant believe most people still going for the same old scam. I understand spawning up a online casino is much faster and convenient then actually going out to a landbased.

But try to get out of that bubble for a change. You'll feel better and you'll understand you dont need the online business. They need you.

How can the RTP be a red flag? Its simple mathematics, 37 numbers hit a number you get 35/1 the remaining bit is the house edge and this gives you the RTP, its not that hard to work put.
What you seem to forget in each and every post you make is that no slot is meant to give you profit over the long run, they are all set with a varying house edge which means that the house will always win, you dont seem to have worked this bit out and honestly you need to reconsider your chosen pastime if you think the games are ever set up to let you win in the long term.

 

[LoopsterAU]

I mentioned I found weird values when doing a view source earlier but thought I had lost the details forgetting that I had saved them to a file.

Info below is what was showing at the time (was over a year ago). I was incorrect regarding the biggest deposit amount but it does include a total deposits section and deposit count + failed deposits etc. More importantly it has a balance real and balance bonus section which probably explains why games always tend to pay a lot more after making a deposit when using a bonus.

{

name: 'USERID',

value: USERID,

}, {

name: 'siteid',

value: siteid,

},{

name: 'LAST_TIME_FAILED_DEPOSIT',

value: jali.LAST_TIME_FAILED_DEPOSIT,

},

{

name: 'Name',

value: gen1,

},{

name: 'NAME1',

value: jali.NAME,

},{

name: 'DEPOSIT_COUNT',

value: jali.DEPOSIT_COUNT,

}, {

name: 'CURRENCY',

value: jali.CURRENCY,

}, {

name: 'BALANCE_REAL',

value: jali.BALANCE_REAL,

}, {

name: 'BALANCE_BONUS',

value: jali.BALANCE_BONUS,

}, {

name: 'LAST_FAILED_DEPOSIT_VALUE',

value: jali.LAST_FAILED_DEPOSIT_VALUE,

}, {

name: 'COUNTRY',

value: jali.COUNTRY,

}, {

name: 'BONUS_ABUSER_FLAG',

value: jali.BONUS_ABUSER_FLAG,

}, {

name: 'PENDING_WITHDRAWAL',

value: jali.PENDING_WITHDRAWAL,

}, {

name: 'LAST_LOGIN',

value: jali.LAST_LOGIN,

}, {

name: 'REGISTRATION_PLATFORM',

value: jali.REGISTRATION_PLATFORM,

}, {

name: 'REGISTRATION_DATETIME',

value: jali.REGISTRATION_DATETIME,

},{

name: 'TOTAL_DEPOSITS_VALUE',

value: jali.TOTAL_DEPOSITS_VALUE,

},

 

[sufferinsilence]

I mentioned I found weird values when doing a view source earlier but thought I had lost the details forgetting that I had saved them to a file.

Info below is what was showing at the time (was over a year ago). I was incorrect regarding the biggest deposit amount but it does include a total deposits section and deposit count + failed deposits etc. More importantly it has a balance real and balance bonus section which probably explains why games always tend to pay a lot more after making a deposit when using a bonus.

{

name: 'USERID',

value: USERID,

}, {

name: 'siteid',

value: siteid,

},{

name: 'LAST_TIME_FAILED_DEPOSIT',

value: jali.LAST_TIME_FAILED_DEPOSIT,

},

{

name: 'Name',

value: gen1,

},{

name: 'NAME1',

value: jali.NAME,

},{

name: 'DEPOSIT_COUNT',

value: jali.DEPOSIT_COUNT,

}, {

name: 'CURRENCY',

value: jali.CURRENCY,

}, {

name: 'BALANCE_REAL',

value: jali.BALANCE_REAL,

}, {

name: 'BALANCE_BONUS',

value: jali.BALANCE_BONUS,

}, {

name: 'LAST_FAILED_DEPOSIT_VALUE',

value: jali.LAST_FAILED_DEPOSIT_VALUE,

}, {

name: 'COUNTRY',

value: jali.COUNTRY,

}, {

name: 'BONUS_ABUSER_FLAG',

value: jali.BONUS_ABUSER_FLAG,

}, {

name: 'PENDING_WITHDRAWAL',

value: jali.PENDING_WITHDRAWAL,

}, {

name: 'LAST_LOGIN',

value: jali.LAST_LOGIN,

}, {

name: 'REGISTRATION_PLATFORM',

value: jali.REGISTRATION_PLATFORM,

}, {

name: 'REGISTRATION_DATETIME',

value: jali.REGISTRATION_DATETIME,

},{

name: 'TOTAL_DEPOSITS_VALUE',

value: jali.TOTAL_DEPOSITS_VALUE,

},

I particularly like the BONUS_ABUSER_FLAG

 

[LoopsterAU]

I particularly like the BONUS_ABUSER_FLAG

I am sure that flag keeps the games "random".