AGCC suspends Full Tilt's licenses

[4 of a kind]

29 June 2011

Breaking news: Alderney suspends Full Tilt's operating licence 29/06/2011

Stephen Carter
Breaking news: Alderney suspends Full Tilt's operating licence

The Alderney Gambling Control Commission (AGCC) has suspended Full Tilt’s licences, requiring the poker room to suspend all operations from the jurisdiction with immediate effect.

The AGCC said in a statement this morning: “The decision to suspend these licenses follows a special investigation prompted by the indictments unsealed by US Attorney General’s Office in the Southern District of New York on 15th April 2011, during which grounds were found to indicate that these licensees and their business associates were operating contrary to Alderney legislation."

More on this as we get it.

 

[vinylweatherman]

29 June 2011

Breaking news: Alderney suspends Full Tilt's operating licence 29/06/2011

Stephen Carter
Breaking news: Alderney suspends Full Tilt's operating licence

The Alderney Gambling Control Commission (AGCC) has suspended Full Tilt’s licences, requiring the poker room to suspend all operations from the jurisdiction with immediate effect.

The AGCC said in a statement this morning: “The decision to suspend these licenses follows a special investigation prompted by the indictments unsealed by US Attorney General’s Office in the Southern District of New York on 15th April 2011, during which grounds were found to indicate that these licensees and their business associates were operating contrary to Alderney legislation."

More on this as we get it.

So, Alderney only just found out they were serving US players, which is not allowed by Alderney rules.

They acted correctly, but they really should have known what ALL the poker players have known for a long time.

This also explains why other operators have been able to claim an Alderney license, yet at the same time be offering services to the US.

These licensing bodies should employ some PLAYERS on a consultancy basis, to feed them information about what is REALLY going on.

 

[cerdikola]

My bankroll is frozen for the rest of the summer...

Great. :icon_evil

 

[Mousey]

My bankroll is frozen for the rest of the summer...

Great. :icon_evil

Were they paying anyone anyway??

 

[bpb]

My bankroll is frozen forever

Great. :icon_evil

FYP ...

 

[Rusty]

So, Alderney only just found out they were serving US players, which is not allowed by Alderney rules.

They acted correctly, but they really should have known what ALL the poker players have known for a long time.

This also explains why other operators have been able to claim an Alderney license, yet at the same time be offering services to the US.

These licensing bodies should employ some PLAYERS on a consultancy basis, to feed them information about what is REALLY going on.

There certainly is a reality gap between how people perceive these licensing authorities operating and how they actually operate.
For example I have contacted them on gaming matters and they simply do not understand even the most basic principles of how the various software operates (they do not even understand the term weighting apparently even though it used in every software - perhaps legally, perhaps not) and feel free to ask them how often they test software to ensure it is not being manipulated - you won't get an answer because they don't. They simply ensure it operates according to their regulations at the time of issuing the license - it is a bit of joke really and these are the best licensing authorities out there, scary.

I guess the obvious conclusion you make is correct, that this breach of licensing conditions pertains only to offering services to players in non legal jurisdictions but as far as I know there is not yet an official statement as to why the license was revoked.

 

[Repro]

Update 18:27 - BREAKING NEWS - Fulltilt Poker License suspended
Tags: Alderney Gambling Control Commission, Black Friday, DOJ, Full Tilt Poker, Full tilt Poker down, License, PokerStars.
Posted on Wednesday, June 29, 2011 by "A".
Earlier today the following statement was issued by the Alderney Gambling Control Commission:

"Alderney Gambling Control Commission (AGCC) has today issued Hearing Notices under Regulation 46 of its Regulations to Vantage Ltd. Oxalic Ltd, Filco Ltd and Orinic Ltd, collectively trading as FULL TILT POKER.

In addtion, AGCC has issued Suspension Notices under Regulation 47 to the above named companies requiring them to suspend all operations with immediate effect.

The decision to suspend these licenses follows a special investigation prompted by the indictments unsealed by US Attorney General's Office in the Southern District of New York on 15th April 2011, during which grounds were found to indicate that these licensees and their business associates were operating contrary to Alderney legislation. The nature of the findings necessitated the taking of immediate action in the public interest.

The venue and date for the hearing will be announced in due course.

Issued by: André Wilsenach (Executive Director), Alderney Gambling Control Commission, Alderney, Channel Islands.

Date issued: 29th June 2011"

Currently all tournaments on FULL TILT POKER is paused and no one can login to the software. In addition their website is stating "Scheduled Maintenance in Progress, The system is currently down for maintenance, please check back soon!"

More info when the story develops.

UPDATE 13:24 GMT

AGCC just released an additional statement that includes in addition to the above the following:

The above named companies must, until the Suspension Notices are cancelled or the Commissioners of AGCC have reached a determination at the conclusion of the hearing convened in accordance with Regulation 46 of the Alderney eGambling Regulations, 2009, cease to exercise their eGambling licenses, which means that these licensees must from today cease to:



Register new customers
Accept deposits from existing customers
Allow existing customers to withdraw funds that are held in their accounts; and
Permit customers to participate in any form of poker game play or gambling transaction
The Alderney Gambling Control Commission will hear the matters contained in the Hearing Notices at a Regulatory Hearing which will commence at 10.00am on Tuesday 26th July 2011, at the Victoria Park Plaza Hotel, 239 Vauxhall Bridge Road, London SW1V 1EQ. In the even that there is a change to these details, this notice will be amended.

So far still not official statement from Fulltilt except the notice on their website. We will keep you updated as the story develops.
UPDATE 18.27 GMT

PokerStars has released the following statement:

"In light of today's news that Alderney Gambling Control Commission has suspended FULL TILT POKER's license, PokerStars wishes to assure our customers that their funds are completely safe and that our operations are completely unaffected. The Isle of Man Gaming Commission today re-affirmed that PokerStars' worldwide licensing is intact and that our operations are in full compliance with all of its requirements. PokerStars' online operations continue as normal and all funds in players' accounts are safe and available for withdrawal as usual with no delays.

PokerStars also remains in full compliance with our licenses in other jurisdictions where we are regulated, including France, Italy and Estonia.

As provided under our licensing, PokerStars has always maintained the integrity and security of our players' funds, by keeping all such funds in segregated bank accounts, always available for immediate withdrawal.

Since the actions of US Department of Justice (DOJ) in April, we have returned more than $120 million to US players and continue to act upon requests as they are received. Players outside the US have not been affected and all cash-outs have been processed without delays. Further, PokerStars entered into an agreement with the Department of Justice which expressly confirmed the company's ability to operate outside the US.

We will continue to operate as a responsible corporate citizen and are committed to serving the needs of our customers in complete compliance with our regulatory requirements."

 

[jstrike]

Yes, all licensing jurisdictions basically operate on a quid pro quo / pay to play basis. Shocking? The licensing boards are concerned with one thing: Keeping themselves out of hot water.

What's interesting about this is that they never had a problem with FTP doing business in Australia, China, Japan, or dozens of other countries that have hard or fuzzy laws against online gambling all these years. Only the US could break them. It's obvious that the USDOJ reached out and put some kind of heavy screws on Alderney to shut FTP down, and whatever it was, it was going to cost Alderney more money than giving up the FTP revenue stream which by a blank estimate from our internal figures would only be worth aboouuuut... USD $4-6M per year to the government there, maybe less.

Nothing worth going to war with Ronald McDonald over.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Yes, all licensing jurisdictions basically operate on a quid pro quo / pay to play basis. Shocking? The licensing boards are concerned with one thing: Keeping themselves out of hot water.

What's interesting about this is that they never had a problem with FTP doing business in Australia, China, Japan, or dozens of other countries that have hard or fuzzy laws against online gambling all these years. Only the US could break them. It's obvious that the USDOJ reached out and put some kind of heavy screws on Alderney to shut FTP down, and whatever it was, it was going to cost Alderney more money than giving up the FTP revenue stream which by a blank estimate from our internal figures would only be worth aboouuuut... USD $4-6M per year to the government there, maybe less.

Nothing worth going to war with Ronald McDonald over.

That is actually quite a bit for a tiny Island state like Alderney.

What seems MORE worrying is that PLAYERS have had their monies frozen by Alderney, whilst at the same time there is supposed to be an agreement in place with the DoJ that would allow US players to cash out and close their accounts.

There could be more to this than merely serving US players. Maybe Alderney has discovered that the operation was seriously underfunded, and freezing everything pending an investigation was the only way to ensure that EVERYBODY would be treated fairly. I expect the OPERATOR'S assets have been frozen too, probably to prevent them moving money out of the reach of Alderney regulators.

Player money is supposed to be separate from company money, and maybe Alderney has seen further problems with this.

This means that ALL players, not just in the US, have lost access to their money for now. I am sure though that Alderney will make sure that players get their money back in the end, even if it means the operator being wound up. Having players lose money in an Alderney regulated operation would be a blow to their credibilty.

 

[Rusty]

Does anyone have an update on this news?

 

[jetset]

FULL TILT POKER DEAL CLOSE TO COMPLETION (Update)

And those rumours about Ray Bitar and Alderney are just not true

Lawyers on the inside of takeover negotiations between a group of as yet unidentified European investors and the beleaguered online poker operator Full Tilt Poker have been leaking information this week, disclosing Thursday that the talks are going well and an agreement is in sight.

And it has been confirmed that wild rumours published by some information sites recently that Ray Bitar had been unseated as CEO at Full Tilt, and that the Alderney Gambling Control Commission was about to lift its suspension of FTP's licence have been described as "nonsense" and "tosh" (incorrect).

Those involved in the discussions are apparently hopeful that a much needed and very substantial injection of capital into the company will enable it to meet US Department of Justice requirements that American players be refunded, and that accomplishing this may relieve the enforcement pressure on the company and its executives, who would presumably then agree to stay out of the US market in a settlement with the authorities.

This may also serve to defang other legal initiatives against Full Tilt such as the recently launched class action by players (see previous InfoPowa reports).

Discussions have apparently also been held with the regulators in Alderney and France, where ARJEL recently suspended FTP's French activities.

The identity of the investors talking to Full Tilt has still not been disclosed, although insiders have hinted that they are from the financial sector and have not previously been involved in the online gambling business. Clearly they have deep pockets, with player refunds unofficially estimated at around $150 million.

 

[TJW]

A lot of things still up in the air.

TJW

 

[Luckylizzy]

I heard FT might be able to get their license from Kahnawake Gaming Commission.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I heard FT might be able to get their license from Kahnawake Gaming Commission.

This should only be allowed if they pay all the monies owed to players, and strike deals acceptable to their suppliers. Any less would do damage to the reputation of Kahnawake, and undo all they have done recently to convince everybody they are being serious about player protection, and active policing of it's licensees. The Kahnawake also have to consider their actions in light of their possible inclusion as a UK whitelisted territory, since the last time they applied they were turned down, and lost many operators to Malta - who then went on to make Kahnawake look good, and the UK whitelist as a player protection measure something of a joke.

This may just be a rumour without substance, and the first the KGC have heard about it.

 

[jetset]

I heard FT might be able to get their license from Kahnawake Gaming Commission.

This was a rumour doing the rounds which led to some unsubstantiated publicity around the end of June. The KGC indicated that there was no such arrangement and in fact issued a statement that advised that it was conducting a review of the Kolyma (FTP) licence of its own following the AGCC suspension - KGC and AGCC have a working relationship.

This was all reported in Casinomeister News btw.

The AGCC hearing on FTP is being held in London on July 16, if memory serves me correctly.

I think the more likely outcome here is that the AGCC will have to be satisfied that there is both the means and the will to pay players - especially in the US - before FTP can move forward. Anything less and they would lose credibility.

And by the looks of things that is dependent on this substantial inflow of capital from still unidentified European investors.

 

[jetset]

Correction - I've just re-checked the date of the AGCC hearing and it's July 26th.

 

[jetset]

Update

DAY OF DRAMA AT ONLINE POKER HEARING

Walkouts and pleas for privacy at Alderney Gaming Control Commission hearing

The keenly anticipated Alderney Gaming Control Commission hearing into the suspension of the Full Tilt Poker licence started half-an-hour late in London Tuesday morning, and after some drama turned out to be something of a damp squib.

The venue was packed with journalists and other interested parties when lawyers from the UK firm Jeffrey Green Russell almost immediately appealed to the three commissioners controlling the hearing that its proceedings be carried out in private for the protection of Full Tilt Poker on three grounds:

* That it was in the interests of justice and did no harm to the proceedings to hold the hearing privately;

* That for reasons of confidential commercial sensitivity involving negotiations for a potential new investor, it could be prejudicial to Full Tilt to hear the matter publicly;

* That there were US legal implications that might be affected by public disclosures.

Noting the possibility that sensitive and confidential information might be disclosed in the hearings if they continued to be open to the media and the public at large, Full Tilt legal representative Martin Heslop said, “It is not in the interest of justice that this should be aired in public. There is a real risk that it may be detrimental to these interests and highly prejudicial to this decision.”

Heslop delivered an interesting snippet of new information himself, telling the commissioners that the only reason that Full Tilt had not paid GBP250 000 in licensing fees to the AGCC was that they expected the licence suspension to extend to expiry. However, he pointed out, the company would be happy to pay the outstanding fees if there was still a chance that the AGCC would allow them to operate under its licensing regime.

The argument caused some "chicken and egg" comment on the apparent impasse of Full Tilt effectively saying “no money without a licence,” while the AGCC stance appeared to be “no licence without the money.”

The commissioners adjourned for over an hour to discuss the application for an adjournment and a private hearing before returning with the decision that there would be no adjournment, but that the remainder of the hearing would be held in camera.

At this point there was a disturbance as the Brit poker pro Harry Demetriou loudly voiced his disapproval, accusing FTP of being corrupt and shouting "What about the players?" before storming out of the venue to loud applause from an audience clearly disappointed at the way things were going.

The commissioners then adjourned to hear the legal arguments in private later in the day.

Full Tilt Poker is reportedly in talks with private investors interested in the company, although it has yet to pay its players following its shutdown on Black Friday, and the subsequent suspension of its licence in Europe with the Alderney Gaming Control Commission and Arjel - the French regulator, which has confirmed that its suspension will remain in force.

Full Tilt legal representatives appeared to be hoping that the AGCC would reinstate Full Tilt's licence.

Jason Hill, representing the AGCC, said that two of the charges against FTP related to allegations of non-payment of licence fees amounting to GBP250,000.

The rather frustrating day ended early evening London time with the announcement that in the interests of justice and the best interest of Full Tilt customers, the hearing was adjourned to allow Full Tilt to continue its advanced investment negotiations, hopefully resulting in a better outcome for the players.

The AGCC announced that the decision was not lightly taken, and the hearing will reconvene at a place and time to be advised no later than September 15, 2011.

 

[jetset]

Update

FULL TILT POKER'S LICENCE VALID AGAIN (Update)

Online poker operator pays GBP250 000 in outstanding licence fees

The Alderney Gambling Control Commission has confirmed that the embattled online poker operator Full Tilt Poker has paid outstanding licence fees totaling GBP250 000, and that the company's licence will be considered valid until the next hearing.

In a notification late Friday, the AGCC reminded interested parties of the events of Black Friday in April of this year, noting that individuals associated with Full Tilt Poker had been involved in allegations of bank fraud, money laundering and illegal gambling offences.

"The AGCC, which licenses FTP, began immediate discussions with FTP’s management in order to protect the interests of players," the statement notes.

It adds that following AGCC investigations the relevant licenses for FTP were suspended on June 29, and that in addition the Commission had imposed a requirement that the licensees comprising FTP must arrange for the ring-fencing of identified players’ funds under their control.

This aspect of safeguarding player deposits has been the subject of heated discussion, as Full Tilt has yet to pay its players, and the rival Isle of Man jurisdiction has drawn attention to its more stringent demands that its licensees ring-fence player funds.

The new AGCC statement recalls the events of July 26, when its public hearing on the Full Tilt case controversially excluded the public by holding private exchanges between the parties involved and then adjourning until a date "no later than September 15 to allow Full Tilt to pursue its negotiations with potential investors, which the Commissioners felt was in the best interests of the players.

The most interesting part of the statement comes next, where the AGCC reveals that the GBP250 000 in outstanding licence fees mentioned in the preliminary stage of the July 26 hearing has now been paid:

"The recent payment of overdue licence fees by FTP is also in players’ best interests since it allows commercial negotiations to take place that might result in a successful refinancing deal.

"Further details regarding the exact date and venue of the next hearing will be announced as soon as possible."

The AGCC has since confirmed that Full Tilt Poker’s licence will be considered valid until the next hearing.

Having valid licensing will be a positive card for Full Tilt to play in its exchanges with a reportedly European group of investors. The negotations have been ongoing for several weeks now, and the consensus is that the fresh capital it could bring to the company is necessary to get players paid.

Earlier this month the Kahnawake Gaming Commission confirmed that it has renewed FTP's secondary gaming licence.

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[jetset]

Update

FULL TILT SEEKING NEW INVESTORS

Apologises for lack of communication to customers

Beleaguered online poker company Poker Kings Ltd has issued a press release on the status of the Full Tilt brand with regard to potential investors.

In a short statement issued to PokerNews, the company confirms that while it continues discussions with its current investor, it is now seeking additional potential investors with a view to concluding the sale/partnership of the Full Tilt Poker brand.

The company blames legal and financial issues arising from "Black Friday", coupled with the need for potential investors' confidentiality for its uncommunicative stance with customers and apologises accordingly.

 

[Luckylizzy]

Here's the Quote from that Press Release About Investor Update

“On August 16, Irish based Pocket Kings Ltd., brand executor for the Full Tilt Poker moniker, concluded the exclusivity period of negotiations with their current potential investor.

While Pocket Kings Ltd. plans to continue discussions with its current investor, the company has now begun negotiations with additional potential investors to conclude the sale/partnership of the Full Tilt Poker brand and its assets.

Full Tilt Poker apologizes for its lack of communication with its customers over the last month and a half, but it has been grappling with unexpected and complex legal and financial issues arising from Black Friday and its aftermath. In addition, the company has had to be circumspect about disclosing the progress of negotiations with potential investors because there is often a requirement of strict confidentiality.

To the extent that it can do so without jeopardizing future opportunities, Full Tilt Poker will strive to have better communication with its customers going forward. Full Tilt Poker’s number one priority remains the same: to secure an infusion of capital to repay all of its worldwide customers.”

This is from an article at Pokernews

 

[jetset]

Judging by this post by a clearly disgruntled former employee, the FTP HQ in Ireland is not a happy place....

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[Tengil]

FU Phil Ivey. Hope you lose your whole roll on craps

Posted by Harry Demetriou at 2+2:

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Some excerpts:

Edit: "Here's a synopsis of a few extra things and details of which I am confident about being true (Please bare in mind that things lose a little in transalation sometimes when passed on from one person to another)"

-


"Then followed three more serious potential investors one of whom was brought in by Phil Ivey. Phil Ivey was going to receive a significant kick back if he could convince the owners and board to accept his investors deal/offer but when it was considered it was found to be the worst of the three and as such was rejected.

Ivey then went into prima donna mode sulked and issued litigation against Full Tilt effectively ****ing them over with this action as he seriously believed that Poker Stars would pay him millions a year and so wanted his freedom "To pursue other interests."

Specifically because of this lawsuit the other two serious potential buyers pulled out and this in effect sealed FTP’s fate to one of more or less inevitable death.

SA then appears from nowhere as the anonymous investor and seems to have good intentions but asks for exclusivity and for Phil Ivey to withdraw the lawsuit (The only bit I am not 100% sure about now is whether Phil Ivey brought this guy in too and whether he gets 10% of the company if it succeeds). However it does not take very long before he starts to dither and stall which drags matters out somewhat. The deadline approaches and is extended and then eventually expires without a deal being signed.

My personal belief and that of others within and close to the company are now that this guy was never serious in the first place and could easily have been planted there by Poker Stars or another rival or Ivey himself to drag things out to ensure the companies death or to ensure it can be obtained for next to nothing as there is obviously a time decay to how much FTP is progressively worth.

Several high level executives have now resigned/been forced to leave and FTP realize how stupid they were to agree to exclusivity in negotiations as it has cost them 2+ months of wasted time. Confidentiality is OK but exclusivity was just totally unwarranted and not merited"

-

"The only real offer that would have saved everyone and would have got players their money back was from JB and he was one of the persons who withdrew due to Phil Ivey's tantrum lawsuit and he is not interested in returning as his reputation means everything to him and he doesn’t want to take the risk of promising the return of all player funds only to subsequently fail in that promise." JB= Jack Binion

-

"FTP are giving the company away to anyone who will deposit $300 Million as requested by Alderney to guarantee all player refunds but will need another $50 million+ on top to keep operating once reopening."

-

"An agreement of sorts although not yet finalised has been reached with The DoJ for their fine which would piss off rivals if it were made public. It is understandably less than previous fines elsewhere as the company simly cant afford it or new investors don’t want to be liable for and is a compromise to permit the continued existence of FTP. (Argue the merits fo this elsewhere)."

Very likely to be true for most parts as eveything he has posted before on the subject has been pretty much spot on.

And total amounts frozen for FTP is 160m dollars if anyones interested.

 

[jetset]

Update

AGCC has set the date for the resumed hearing at September 19 in London.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Judging by this post by a clearly disgruntled former employee, the FTP HQ in Ireland is not a happy place....

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Neither link now works. Have 2+2 silenced this former employee

 

[4 of a kind]

Now, with their silence treatment, where the whole staff is prohibited from communicating any information to players, pros, creditors or in fact anyone at all from outside the company, regularly reminding their staff of the confidentiality clause in their contracts - it's the way it rolls, each opportunity, another threat to make sure they don’t forget who they are dealing with - it’s getting worse and worse every hour, the company is in crisis and the staff are threatened that if the look to get alternative employment in the industry they have developed with the secure the families future they will be sue for all they have.

I would love to read that confidentiality clause. Other then the threats from an employer of losing your job or being sued for breach of contract, threats to employees "making sure they don't forget who they are dealing with", makes one wonder who in fact they actually are dealing with. Sounds like a mafia boss telling employees they could end up sleeping with the fishes.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Now, with their silence treatment, where the whole staff is prohibited from communicating any information to players, pros, creditors or in fact anyone at all from outside the company, regularly reminding their staff of the confidentiality clause in their contracts - it's the way it rolls, each opportunity, another threat to make sure they don’t forget who they are dealing with - it’s getting worse and worse every hour, the company is in crisis and the staff are threatened that if the look to get alternative employment in the industry they have developed with the secure the families future they will be sue for all they have.

I would love to read that confidentiality clause. Other then the threats from an employer of losing your job or being sued for breach of contract, threats to employees "making sure they don't forget who they are dealing with", makes one wonder who in fact they actually are dealing with. Sounds like a mafia boss telling employees they could end up sleeping with the fishes.

They should check for "whistleblower" laws. These have been introduced in some countries in order to allow staff to report illegal activities without having to worry about being "kneecapped" by their employers through the courts. These laws would NOT apply however to leaking legal, but commercially sensitive, information.

This is an INTERNET company (thus jurisdictional issues are much more complex), so it could be easier for ex-employees to take "revenge" once they have lost their jobs, and can no longer be threatened with the "sack" for speaking out of turn. Employees can also counter-sue, and in some cases the employer will back down because the information they wanted to hide will end up being repeated in court, where it will become a matter of public record, rather than the rantings of a disgruntled ex-employee.

I doubt the USA would extradite an employee who goes to the DoJ to "spill the beans".

 

[jetset]

Neither link now works. Have 2+2 silenced this former employee

I've just tried the link again myself and it worked fine?

 

[vinylweatherman]

I've just tried the link again myself and it worked fine?

Working now, although they point to a locked thread, with the discussion having been moved to a new one headed by a summary. It seems the thread just got so large, and the new one already has over 100 pages. Maybe linking to "single post" rather than the thread is what causes problems when trying to click through.

If true, the allegations make Alderney look even WORSE, since all this went on for YEARS, right under their noses. Rather than winding the company up, they allowed these SAME people to simply pay the outstanding license fees, money they DIDN'T have from company funds, but had to take from an already underfunded pool of money that belings to players. Thus, Alderney got 100% of their money, with other creditors likely to end up with little or nothing. Alderney should have put PLAYERS first, and NOT taken money from the old company UNTIL a deal had been made that got players paid. They could simply have promosed that new investors could start with a "clean sheet" so long as players got paid, with Alderney writing off the unpaid fees or pursuing the original owners for them. Alderney would have ended up with MORE money, since the new investor would presumably pay for their own license, and would have the money to do so.

The management should face CRIMINAL charges, since it looks like they knowingly siphoned money and benefits from a company that was already unable to meet it's liabilities to players. The board and owners STILL dined on lobster even when they KNEW the company was on it's knees and were making such drastic cutbacks that staff were leaving through lack of confidence and low moral.

Alderney should send in a team of auditors to look for evidence of misappropriation of funds, and arrest those in charge who presided over all of this. There is already enough evidence to prove that players' funds were misused to fund company activity, and a further offence of "knowingly trading whilst insolvent" may well be supported by evidence brought to light from an audit of the accounts. A criminal investigation would also neuter attempts by the owners to bully employees to keep quiet about what they know.

 

[4 of a kind]

It's sad when issues like this are brought out of the closet. Ultimately the innocent players losing their money are the ones that are impacted the most.

Yet, on the positive side its these same issues once enough of them have been accumulated, that will force strict regulations and enforcement to be put in place, not only to protect the players, but to protect the operators from themselves. Greed when compared to a compulsive gambler share many of the same traits.

 

[threescatters]

And total amounts frozen for FTP is 160m dollars if anyones interested.

This is not true. It is what FTP wants everyone to believe but the way they worded it gives it away.

What they said was the total amount seized up to and including blackfriday FOR THE TWO YEARS PREVIOUS was $150m. They had numerous other (reasonably public) seizures the past few years which has been included in this total. Therefore the amount actually frozen on black friday is way way less than that. FTP were trying to pass the buck onto the DOJ there when they did NOT have anywhere near all the players money pre black friday anyway.

 

[Tengil]

This is not true. It is what FTP wants everyone to believe but the way they worded it gives it away.

What they said was the total amount seized up to and including blackfriday FOR THE TWO YEARS PREVIOUS was $150m. They had numerous other (reasonably public) seizures the past few years which has been included in this total. Therefore the amount actually frozen on black friday is way way less than that. FTP were trying to pass the buck onto the DOJ there when they did NOT have anywhere near all the players money pre black friday anyway.

The 160M was not taken from their statement. Frozen and/or not accessible by FTP, some banks froze account voluntarily that werent included in the DOJ "list".

And they didnt say that the 115M included amounts frozen on Black Friday, they said "two years preceding Black Friday". Its only what Noah thinks (and he doesnt know how much was frozen) which should be taken as official.
And they only mentioned US bank accounts and that includes mostly processor funds AFAIK. They had way more non-US than US accounts frozen on BF.

So it may be true or it maybe false but one shouldnt have a guy whose ego has blown trough the roof as the only source.

 

[threescatters]

The 160M was not taken from their statement. Frozen and/or not accessible by FTP, some banks froze account voluntarily that werent included in the DOJ "list".

And they didnt say that the 115M included amounts frozen on Black Friday, they said "two years preceding Black Friday". Its only what Noah thinks (and he doesnt know how much was frozen) which should be taken as official.
And they only mentioned US bank accounts and that includes mostly processor funds AFAIK. They had way more non-US than US accounts frozen on BF.

So it may be true or it maybe false but one shouldnt have a guy whose ego has blown trough the roof as the only source.

Hi Spiderlegz,

1) The bank account that was frozen voluntarily by the bank itself was a single bank account at Bank of Ireland. You are right they froze this without the DOJ asking as a snap safety measure. This has now however been reopened apparently.

2) Yeah you are right the statement says "two years preceding black friday". It is deliberately vague about how much was actually frozen because of black friday itself. You can be sure that they did not have enough to cover player funds before that day anyway and this is the crux of the argument I was trying to make. I am sick of the "DOJ has player funds" crap FTP lovers are trying to get away with. Wrong, they do not have anywhere near the amounts player funds should add up and it was FTP that spent/gave to owners/mismanaged the player fund balances.

Thanks for posting on this spider, I didnt realise more non us funds than us funds were frozen? Can you elaborate on this anymore?

 

[Tengil]

Hi Spiderlegz,

1) The bank account that was frozen voluntarily by the bank itself was a single bank account at Bank of Ireland. You are right they froze this without the DOJ asking as a snap safety measure. This has now however been reopened apparently.

2) Yeah you are right the statement says "two years preceding black friday". It is deliberately vague about how much was actually frozen because of black friday itself. You can be sure that they did not have enough to cover player funds before that day anyway and this is the crux of the argument I was trying to make. I am sick of the "DOJ has player funds" crap FTP lovers are trying to get away with. Wrong, they do not have anywhere near the amounts player funds should add up and it was FTP that spent/gave to owners/mismanaged the player fund balances.

Thanks for posting on this spider, I didnt realise more non us funds than us funds were frozen? Can you elaborate on this anymore?

The point 1 is assuming that there were only 1 account in Europe that was voluntarily frozen. I doubt that.

Point 2 I mostly agree. Im more inclined to think that the main problem is the deposits shortfall of (according to Noah who took it from the Todd Terry et al’s class action lawsuit) 128M of which only 9M is recoverable. Add poor management and even worse accounting and "its problem".

Again AGCC apparently didnt see any problem in this if they even knew or cared. Guess being the biggest licensee gives you some perks.

Doubt that there are really any FTP fanboys (most probably just software fans) out there anymore, some just seem to be overoptimistic. They had by far the best software tough (IMO) and Rush but some former employee said that half of the developement team has left which further lowers the value of FTP.

About US and non-US funds. FTP was operating in Ireland and had their servers at Guernsey so its quite reasonable to assume that they had way more funds in their European accounts. The list of the bank accounts (

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) in the DOJ indictment also further strengthens that view. Of course one cant know 100% sure but there is no logical reason to believe otherwise.

If you want some really laughable comments check what KGC has stated about Cereus... They dont even need to do the spin themself as KGC does the job for them.

 

[threescatters]

Hi again spiderlegz,

Well actually I think its very unlikely there was more than 1 bank account frozen voluntarily. That one that was snap frozen and later reopened was so widely reported and focused on I believe we would have heard of any others, and we never have.

Then again neither of us know for sure so we are both just speculating. Certainly any voluntarily frozen ones will have been reopened by now anyway as FTP got the DOJ to confirm to BOI that that account was ok, which they duly did.

On the second thing you mention of course the shortfall in non collected deposits does not help matters. The widely reported number is $60m but again we dont know for sure, it could even be more. I dont believe even if you had handed 60million to FTP as cash on the 10th april before blackfriday they would have had every cent of every players balance. They wouldnt even have been close. Looking at the figures mentioned by people in the know (not noah, I agree with your assessment of him) it certainly seems that way. NO MATTER WHAT it is FTP that put players money at risk, and they deserve all the blame simply for that.

I completely agree with you about the software. It was online poker at its best. I am not so sure they fully owned rush poker. From what I remember it was a group of programmers created that and tried to sell it to stars first who turned it down. Dont quote me on that though. If FTP do own the complete rights and patent to that then its their biggest asset.

Finally, totally agree about KGC. Just a joke.

Thanks for posting on this spiderlegz, I dont like to post on 2+2 much but I appreciate you posting about it here.

 

[Tengil]

Hi again spiderlegz,

Well actually I think its very unlikely there was more than 1 bank account frozen voluntarily. That one that was snap frozen and later reopened was so widely reported and focused on I believe we would have heard of any others, and we never have.

Then again neither of us know for sure so we are both just speculating. Certainly any voluntarily frozen ones will have been reopened by now anyway as FTP got the DOJ to confirm to BOI that that account was ok, which they duly did.

On the second thing you mention of course the shortfall in non collected deposits does not help matters. The widely reported number is $60m but again we dont know for sure, it could even be more. I dont believe even if you had handed 60million to FTP as cash on the 10th april before blackfriday they would have had every cent of every players balance. They wouldnt even have been close. Looking at the figures mentioned by people in the know (not noah, I agree with your assessment of him) it certainly seems that way. NO MATTER WHAT it is FTP that put players money at risk, and they deserve all the blame simply for that.

I completely agree with you about the software. It was online poker at its best. I am not so sure they fully owned rush poker. From what I remember it was a group of programmers created that and tried to sell it to stars first who turned it down. Dont quote me on that though. If FTP do own the complete rights and patent to that then its their biggest asset.

Finally, totally agree about KGC. Just a joke.

Thanks for posting on this spiderlegz, I dont like to post on 2+2 much but I appreciate you posting about it here.

There could have been other bank accounts frozen that werent in the DOJ list. Reasons why it wouldnt have been reported is that sums were small or FTP didnt want anyone to know.

The deposit shortfall seems to be 119M (128-9)

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Seems to be true.
It was a huge gamble made by FTP that went south and players are the ones ultimately paying the price.
128M is over 80% of what is said to be owed to US players (~150M).

And yes FTP and their execs deserve all the shit that is being thrown against them.

And about the software, euro sites have so crappy software that its no surprise that basically only 888poker has gained any long-term traffic increase after BF. Players have gone back to PS. I only play on euro sites because of +60% flat RB.

 

[jetset]

Update

FULL TILT’S WOES CONTINUE WITH ANOTHER CLASS ACTION (Update)

Canadian consumer group files in Superior Court of Quebec

Beleaguered online poker group Full Tilt faces another legal obstacle with the Canadian consumer group, Groupe des droits des consommateurs, announcing today that it has filed a national class action suit against the company on behalf of players who have been unable to reclaim their money following the U.S. Department of Justice action earlier this year, dubbed as "Black Friday".

A group statement made to the Toronto Sun newspaper said: "The class action involves Full Tilt Poker's illegal freezing of clients' money that's kept in accounts available through the website www.fulltiltpoker.com."

This latest action, which has to be approved by the Canadian courts, brings to three the lawsuits filed against Full Tilt with regard to unpaid player funds. The first filed in June 2011 on behalf of U.S. Players only (Todd Terry et al.) and the second filed in August 2011 on behalf of anyone whose accounts on Full Tilt Poker have not been paid back (Plaintiffs - Zayn Jetha and Donald Whelan). Both suits were filed in the United States District Court for the Southern District of New York (see previous InfoPowa reports).

In the meantime Full Tilt will undergo the continuation of the Alderney Gambling Control Commission's deliberations on the suspension of its licence, due to be held in London on September 19.

 

[Wisenheimer]

FULL TILT’S WOES CONTINUE WITH ANOTHER CLASS ACTION (Update)

Canadian consumer group files in Superior Court of Quebec

Beleaguered online poker group Full Tilt faces another legal obstacle with the Canadian consumer group, Groupe des droits des consommateurs, announcing today that it has filed a national class action suit against the company on behalf of players who have been unable to reclaim their money following the U.S. Department of Justice action earlier this year, dubbed as "Black Friday".

A group statement made to the Toronto Sun newspaper said: "The class action involves Full Tilt Poker's illegal freezing of clients' money that's kept in accounts available through the website www.fulltiltpoker.com."

This latest action, which has to be approved by the Canadian courts, brings to three the lawsuits filed against Full Tilt with regard to unpaid player funds. The first filed in June 2011 on behalf of U.S. Players only (Todd Terry et al.) and the second filed in August 2011 on behalf of anyone whose accounts on Full Tilt Poker have not been paid back (Plaintiffs - Zayn Jetha and Donald Whelan). Both suits were filed in the United States District Court for the Southern District of New York (see previous InfoPowa reports).

In the meantime Full Tilt will undergo the continuation of the Alderney Gambling Control Commission's deliberations on the suspension of its licence, due to be held in London on September 19.

I've read that today as well. I love how some of the Canadians are making up random big digits to make a profit. The only internet poker games worth playing are rakefree anyway. Especially after this whole fiasco...you'd be surprised how much money you can save on rake.

 

[jetset]

Update

Disappointing news from AGC that the September 19th hearing will be held in camera again - supposedly in the best interests of the players The Alderney commissioners do not seem to appreciate how damaging this secrecy is to their credibility as regulators.

Even their own regulatory director, Andre Wilsenach disagrees with this procedure.

Pocket Kings, the owners of FTP, have also issued another exclusive statement detailing their predicament. It appears from this that they still have not found investors and have now engaged a company to assist them in doing so.

In the meantime they continue to struggle with substantial financial problems, and it looks like further retrenchments may be expected:


AGCC SAYS FULL TILT HEARING TO BE HELD IN PRIVATE

“Tribunal conducting a difficult balancing exercise of the interests of the various parties”

It's been an eventful day for industry observers following the ongoing Full Tilt Poker saga with the release of a Full Tilt Statement and the Alderney Gambling Control Commission announcing a private hearing on September 19 2011.

The Full Tilt Poker statement released exclusively to Poker Strategy.com reads as follows:

"On April 15th 2011 the United States Department of Justice unsealed a federal indictment against a number of individuals employed by major online poker operators. After the issuance of that indictment and a related civil case brought by the United States government, Full Tilt Poker withdrew from the US market. Then in a related action, on June 29th, 2011, Full Tilt Poker had its operating licenses suspended by the Alderney Gambling Control Commission.

“As a result, Pocket Kings Ltd. (provider of marketing and technology services to Full Tilt Poker) has adopted a cost optimization program and estimates that they need to reduce their costs by approximately €12m. This program is intended to streamline the company's operations in order to better position itself for future growth and profitability in Full Tilt Poker’s markets outside of the U.S.

“If all of the required cost savings were to be achieved through redundancies, approximately 250 positions could be affected; however the exact number cannot be confirmed until the conclusion of a consultation process with its workforce.

“Notwithstanding the foregoing, Pocket Kings firmly believes it has a very strong future in Full Tilt Poker’s Non-US Markets, and is fully committed to ensuring Full Tilt Poker restores the site and repay players in full. To this end, Full Tilt Poker has retained Sea Port Group Securities, LLC as its financial advisor with regard to raising capital and/or assisting in securing a strategic partner in order to fund continued operations of Full Tilt Poker's non-U.S. business. The Company is in active discussions with several parties and will provide a further statement in due course."

“Sea Port Group Securities, LLC is a credit focused Investment Bank founded by Michael Meagher and Stephen Smith and is described as "a firm unique in its ability to connect clients with diverse credit opportunities and create value."

“The Alderney Gambling Control Commission (AGCC) released its latest statement with regard to Full Tilt Poker's much anticipated hearing scheduled for September 19, 2011 in London. The Commission has notified interested parties that the tribunal has ruled that the hearing will not be open to the public but will commence in private "in camera", to the disappointment of the AGCC's Executive Director, André Wilsenach.

The AGCC's statement reads:

"The Commissioners of AGCC forming the tribunal dealing with the regulatory hearing into the affairs of FTP have decided that the hearing will continue on Monday 19th September 2011 but that it be held 'in camera'.

“This determination was reached following a pre-hearing application by FTP to further adjourn the hearing.

“André Wilsenach, Executive Director, stated: "I am pleased that the FTP hearing will continue as scheduled, as was argued on my behalf. However, I am disappointed with the tribunal's decision that, notwithstanding my arguments to the contrary, the hearing will be held in private. I believe the public has a right to know the reasoning behind the decisions to suspend FTP's licences and call a hearing, and to hear the evidence that will be put forward on my behalf.

“It is my understanding that the tribunal conducted a difficult balancing exercise of the interests of the various parties, taking into account the legal arguments for and against further postponing the hearing, and for and against allowing the public to attend the proceedings."

“As a consequence of the tribunal's decision members of the public will not be able to attend the hearing. A further statement will be made at the earliest possible opportunity.

“Issued by: Andre Wilsenach (Executive Director, AGCC)"

 

[vinylweatherman]

How can it be "in the interests of all parties" where ONE of these parties, the players, have been TWICE excluded from the process.

Even if they manage to survive, do they REALLY believe that non-US players will flock to join such a SECRETIVE operator when there are others available that have not gotten themselves into such a mess. If they fail to survive, and players end up not getting paid, it will be the AGC that will lose credibilty among the player community.

Eventually, the minutes of these hearings will end up in the public domain, and judgement will be biased by the knowledge that any important facts that emerged were intended to remain hidden from the players.

 

[threescatters]

Yes the AGC is clearly a poor regulator. They failed to ensure FTP met the demands of their regulation (Keeping enough liquid cash at all times to cover player balances) and now they are holding everything in secret after claiming it would be public. The players are the ones getting shafted here whilst the AGC and FTP cover their asses. This is hugely damaging for the AGC imo. If I was another company licenced by the AGC I would be pretty pissed off atm.

 

[Tengil]

As much as AGCC is to blame they still have handled it better than KGC who still lets Cereus operate in addition to releasing some false statements.

How can it be "in the interests of all parties" where ONE of these parties, the players, have been TWICE excluded from the process.

Even if they manage to survive, do they REALLY believe that non-US players will flock to join such a SECRETIVE operator when there are others available that have not gotten themselves into such a mess. If they fail to survive, and players end up not getting paid, it will be the AGC that will lose credibilty among the player community.

Eventually, the minutes of these hearings will end up in the public domain, and judgement will be biased by the knowledge that any important facts that emerged were intended to remain hidden from the players.

You would be surprised.
The new owner/operator would have to provide serious proof that player funds are safe. Their software is easily the best and they have Rush in addition. Would probably almost instantly jump to second biggest site as the competition from others than PS is weak.
And dont forget that the majority of players dont have big rolls there and there would probably be some nice incentives for players.

But thats a huge "if".

 

[threescatters]

As much as AGCC is to blame they still have handled it better than KGC who still lets Cereus operate in addition to releasing some false statements.

Very true.

 

[vinylweatherman]

As much as AGCC is to blame they still have handled it better than KGC who still lets Cereus operate in addition to releasing some false statements.




You would be surprised.
The new owner/operator would have to provide serious proof that player funds are safe. Their software is easily the best and they have Rush in addition. Would probably almost instantly jump to second biggest site as the competition from others than PS is weak.
And dont forget that the majority of players dont have big rolls there and there would probably be some nice incentives for players.

But thats a huge "if".

This is to their advantage, but good software is no good if players don't feel their funds are safe. If the impression that "nothing has changed" emerges, the competition will see an opportunity to gain ground, perhaps by upgrading their own software to give players what they miss at FT.

If the old owners are seen to get off lightly and carry on as before, players are not going to feel as safe as they once did. It will need new ownership, new management, and a clear impression that the "old guard" who created this mess are gone for good. Players are also going to want to know what this secrecy was all about.

Given that this is dragging on so long, the competition are the ONLY outlet for players who want to play poker NOW! This is an opportunity for the competitors to impress these FT refugees so much that they never want to return to FT even when it is operating again.

 

[Tengil]

This is to their advantage, but good software is no good if players don't feel their funds are safe. If the impression that "nothing has changed" emerges, the competition will see an opportunity to gain ground, perhaps by upgrading their own software to give players what they miss at FT.

If the old owners are seen to get off lightly and carry on as before, players are not going to feel as safe as they once did. It will need new ownership, new management, and a clear impression that the "old guard" who created this mess are gone for good. Players are also going to want to know what this secrecy was all about.

Given that this is dragging on so long, the competition are the ONLY outlet for players who want to play poker NOW! This is an opportunity for the competitors to impress these FT refugees so much that they never want to return to FT even when it is operating again.

Thats why I wrote that the new operator would have to present proof that player funds are safe. The old owners and execs arent going to be involved in the new company if that scenario becomes reality.

Upgrading the software isnt done in a whimp and certainly isnt cheap, ask Betfair. The competitors havent gained much of any traffic increase other than the short spike in traffic after BF. Most have now lost it back to PS.
The "eurosites" (excluding PS) are so far behind in software and have low traffic that the only site that ever could compete with the "new" FTP (big if again) for the second spot is Party when they get the Bwin player pool (pretty much half of Ongame and the majority of the fish).

The big network (big as in amount of skins) model is not working hence why Party is the only serious competitor in the long run IMO.

 

[jetset]

Independent report on the manner in which Alderney Gaming Control Commission handled the Full Tilt Poker debacle here:

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