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Affiliate for company but concerned about payment

D

DoubleTree1962

Banned User
Joined
Nov 15, 2019
Location
Acton
Hi I am affiliate for rush partners I haven't been paid over a month . I checked company house it's says accounts overdue now very worried??

Accounts overdue
Next accounts made up to 31 December 2018
due by 30 September 2019
Last accounts made up to 31 December

First time payment??
 
Their last set of accounts indicated a loss of £2.6 MILLION which is pretty substantial for a private limited company. Remember you are dealing with a separate firm and not the casino here.

A quick search shows they have not filed for striking off or liquidation yet so if you were to pursue it through the courts then its best to do so now before they do - and in my opinion I think they have all just disappeared and hoping the debts die with the company. With the accounts overdue, the company will automatically strike off soon.

It all depends on the amount you are expecting. If it's a large amount and worthwhile chasing then do it. When I was an affiliate there were several occasions where I had to write off monies owed because it was pointless chasing or would have cost me more in the long run.
 
Thanks the owner of rush partner is owner of the casino. Ukgc said that funds should be held separately. But I read on website I think they don't so if go bankrupt even customers wont get anything who had money in accounts. I have to stop and find more reliable ones.
 
DoubleTree1962 said:
Thanks the owner of rush partner is owner of the casino. Ukgc said that funds should be held separately. But I read on website I think they don't so if go bankrupt even customers wont get anything who had money in accounts. I have to stop and find more reliable ones.
Click to expand...

Player funds are protected, affiliate accounts aren't. This recently happened to me, the affs for Fun88, BetEast etc. just locked the account, put a notice on the page which said the affiliate programme was closing, no contact us, no pledge to clear payments owing to me, jack shit basically. So it's written off.

You won't see a penny, you'll find the affiliate programme is handled offshore somewhere and doesn't have a UK entity with any funds to sue for.

Dodgy characters can soon set up a licensed casino, manage it badly and clear most off the money out before dissolving the business via liquidation or strike off. Purple Lounge was the first shitstorm like this many years ago, basically run by scammers who filched the assets/cash out.

Casino Commission were another set of camming f*ckers with 666casino and another one I promoted, initially WHG and OK but changed to another platform and never paid what they owed.

Get used to it mate. I know people who were in the business way before me and the full licensing when it came in from the UKGC in April 2015 or 16 whenever it was - they were sometimes ripped-off tens of thousands.

Remember the names of the affiliate manager and whomever else you knew there, and make a note never to work with them again, if you are aware of them appearing somewhere else in another venture, go on the forums and warn people to steer clear.
 
They are Private limited Company. Which rent office space in UK. They don't have any assets. What happens to customers money. Is the ukgc cover the customer if they go bankrupt.
 
DoubleTree1962 said:
They are Private limited Company. Which rent office space in UK. They don't have any assets. What happens to customers money. Is the ukgc cover the customer if they go bankrupt.
Click to expand...
Nope, the UKGC cover nothing. The UKGC has specified standards to operators and the minimum required to operate is with separate customer funds accounts, some casinos are far more up the ladder here than others with it. It doesn't guarantee that what's in those accounts is sufficient to cover all customer liabilities. So the minimum level required is basically equivalent to letting the owner keep most of the cash under his or her pillow.

I did read through the regulation on customer funds once, maybe somebody who has got a bit more time can refresh my memory.

But what I can say for sure is that there's no insurance or underwriting of liabilities from any third party and debts are settled in part, full or not at all under normal company rules for insolvency.
 
@dunover something I was actualy wondering about with affiliates.

When a casino ends its affiliation programmes with only an example yourself, are the customers who signed up using your link then informed of this? Or are you able to inform them? Reason I'm asking is when I sign up through an affiliate I know that some of the money I loose goes to an affiliate which I don't mind as I knew that before using the link. I would hate to still think that I am loosing money under the belief that the affiliate will receive nothing anymore and therefore I personally would stop depositing at that site. Hope this makes sense lol it did as I was typing it.
 
Scott1baird said:
@dunover something I was actualy wondering about with affiliates.

When a casino ends its affiliation programmes with only an example yourself, are the customers who signed up using your link then informed of this? Or are you able to inform them? Reason I'm asking is when I sign up through an affiliate I know that some of the money I loose goes to an affiliate which I don't mind as I knew that before using the link. I would to still think that I am loosing money under the belief that the affiliate will receive nothing anymore and therefore I personally would stop depositing at that site. Hope this makes sense lol it did as I was typing it.
Click to expand...
That's a very honourable thought and I appreciate it, especially considering recent threads on here!

No, is the simple answer, to all.

It depends also on where your programme closes to - i.e. if they stop taking UK players all revenues from them cease but you can still be paid for say your Swedish ones.

I think what you're getting at is like recently when Aceworld (FSB sites like BetEast, Fun88 and JB) Affs closed. All we got was a message when trying to log-in to say the aff programme was closed. That's all. No indication of whether your players could still play there, no promise to pay outstanding monies, no e-mail, nada, zilch. That is scum rip-off behaviour. So if those casinos are still open, I won't be getting a penny from my players, nor money already earned. Ikibu are the same - simply decided they don't want to pay, or won't pay their affs any more but are still open AFAIK.

When RedQueen closed for example, we were e-mailed, told when we would be paid up to, when the players had to stop playing and we would be paid all monies, even if below the payout threshold, on xx date. We were. That's honourable, that's how it should be done. If any of those people come up again with different programmes, I won't hesitate to work with them.

As for the other cowards above who couldn't even tell us on Skype, I will remember their names, never work with them again and if I come across anyone I know at an Aff Conf who's thinking of doing so, will strongly discourage them as well.
 
Another affy related question.
If you sign up via a affiliate link can you change your mind once you opened the acc even after making a deposit and take the affiliation away if you get me?..
 
Playford7 said:
Another affy related question.
If you sign up via a affiliate link can you change your mind once you opened the acc even after making a deposit and take the affiliation away if you get me?..
Click to expand...

If not, simply stopping playing Bonanza will see a 95% drop in their revenue.
 
helafast said:
Just got an e-mail that Ikibu is closing down. 30 days remaining to withdraw funds.
Click to expand...

Yeah, their rep did say that's where they thought this was going. At least the players will thankfully be paid.
 
I can throw in another affiliate-related question. @dunover
Do you know how the numbers compare between people like you running an affiliate site, and those who are streaming? Im guessing the big streamers get alot of signups, but i have zero idea how it looks for affiliate sites.

And no, im not thinking about becoming an affiliate. =)
Im sure in time, Netent will see all my shilling and hire me on the spot.
 
Playford7 said:
Another affy related question.
If you sign up via a affiliate link can you change your mind once you opened the acc even after making a deposit and take the affiliation away if you get me?..
Click to expand...

No, the account is permanently attached to the affiliate code within the link used to access the sign-up.

Although there have been many bent affiliate managers and programmes in the past and even now who will happily do this without you the player or the affiliate ever knowing - it's called 'detagging'. This means a big player who earns an affiliate good bucks very quickly will be re-tagged to the manager, or one of their friends' affiliate account so they can steal or split your earnings without you ever knowing about it. That is if the affiliate programme is outsourced, the casino won't know any different as the amount they pay the programme is the same.

If the casino has an in-house programme they can simply do this themselves to avoid the liability to you. It sounds bad, but believe me ask the old timer affiliates like @KasinoKing etc. about it!

I had one serious incidence of this when randomly checking an account run in Israel (surprise eh?) literally one minute after the daily update time at 11AM. To my joy I had several K in revenue added from the previous day, from a single player. I did a few other jobs, went back to revel in the stats about 10 minutes later, it had vanished. Got onto Skype, told them I had spotted this and got a faux-upset response "You don't trust us, you think we steal from you?" kinda crap. Was then told there had been a Netrefer 'error' (never seen one before or since although we do often get issues at another affiliate platform, Income Access). Go figure. It ain't just players that get ripped off.
 
Kroffe said:
I can throw in another affiliate-related question. @dunover
Do you know how the numbers compare between people like you running an affiliate site, and those who are streaming? Im guessing the big streamers get alot of signups, but i have zero idea how it looks for affiliate sites.

And no, im not thinking about becoming an affiliate. =)
Im sure in time, Netent will see all my shilling and hire me on the spot.
Click to expand...

Affiliate sites like mine have tens, sometimes hundreds of different affiliate accounts in play. Out of say 70 accounts, each month I can get anything from 7 to over 20 that exceed their payout threshold and make me a payment. Some will do well, others just scrape past. Most will be under limit and have had little player interest/sign-ups or have had plenty of new players but they won overall so I get paid nothing. Most deals are RS (revenue share) which is best in the long run, the rest are hybrids (a fixed fee for a new depositor of say 100euros if they deposit 20 or more plus a lesser percentage RS). The fixed fee or Cost Per Acquisition (CPA) payment is ringfenced from the revenue share/commission so even if those players win, that still gets paid us.

The streamers have their model concentrated in far fewer casinos so they will bring in a far bigger volume of NDP's than I would at the same sites. So they get higher CPA payments of say 150 or 200euros per new depositor of 20euros+. Some do work solely on CPA with no RS and can easily get 50-200+ players in a weekend - there's big money in this. Most streamers though have realized now that their streams or channels can be closed at the drop of a hat by Twitch or YT so have sensibly hedged their bets and negotiated hybrid deals, so if the CPA payments stop, they still have historical players to provide a RS income for months or years afterwards.

The more money you make, the more power you have because if you're getting say 200 NDP's a weekend at 150euro each CPA (30k earned) , plus future RS you can then tell the next casino you will give them 100+ players at least a week (which they'll bite off your hand for) but want say 200e or 250e each. Once you can deliver the numbers, you can charge a hell of a lot.

This sounds hugely expensive for the casinos but they do it simply because using TV or media is even more costly per new player acquired. It's the economics of it. The only disadvantage is that these high volume players tend to be poor-quality and once they've made their 20euros first deposit at the behest of the streamer, tend to piss-off and not play again so the casino is ultimately out-of-pocket.
 
dunover said:
Affiliate sites like mine have tens, sometimes hundreds of different affiliate accounts in play. Out of say 70 accounts, each month I can get anything from 7 to over 20 that exceed their payout threshold and make me a payment. Some will do well, others just scrape past. Most will be under limit and have had little player interest/sign-ups or have had plenty of new players but they won overall so I get paid nothing. Most deals are RS (revenue share) which is best in the long run, the rest are hybrids (a fixed fee for a new depositor of say 100euros if they deposit 20 or more plus a lesser percentage RS). The fixed fee or Cost Per Acquisition (CPA) payment is ringfenced from the revenue share/commission so even if those players win, that still gets paid us.

The streamers have their model concentrated in far fewer casinos so they will bring in a far bigger volume of NDP's than I would at the same sites. So they get higher CPA payments of say 150 or 200euros per new depositor of 20euros+. Some do work solely on CPA with no RS and can easily get 50-200+ players in a weekend - there's big money in this. Most streamers though have realized now that their streams or channels can be closed at the drop of a hat by Twitch or YT so have sensibly hedged their bets and negotiated hybrid deals, so if the CPA payments stop, they still have historical players to provide a RS income for months or years afterwards.

The more money you make, the more power you have because if you're getting say 200 NDP's a weekend at 150euro each CPA (30k earned) , plus future RS you can then tell the next casino you will give them 100+ players at least a week (which they'll bite off your hand for) but want say 200e or 250e each. Once you can deliver the numbers, you can charge a hell of a lot.

This sounds hugely expensive for the casinos but they do it simply because using TV or media is even more costly per new player acquired. It's the economics of it. The only disadvantage is that these high volume players tend to be poor-quality and once they've made their 20euros first deposit at the behest of the streamer, tend to piss-off and not play again so the casino is ultimately out-of-pocket.
Click to expand...

Do affiliates ever contact casinos about players?
Like "Oh, Kroffe lost €10k this month, thats a bit more than his usual €200-400, maybe somethings up."
I know its the casinos responsibility to pick up these things, but we all know that does not always work.
So i was wondering if affiliates ever raise concerns about players spending/losses.

Thanks for the detailed answer by the way.
=)
 
Kroffe said:
Do affiliates ever contact casinos about players?
Like "Oh, Kroffe lost €10k this month, thats a bit more than his usual €200-400, maybe somethings up."
Click to expand...

Do they f*ck. Firstly because they are in it for the money, secondly because we don't know the identity of the players anyway. They are just country, deposit amount, turnover, income etc.

In the example you describe, the likely outcome is the aff manger would Skype you and congratulate you for getting the player and all the money they spent, which means as well as our cut the aff manager gets a bit in most cases too. Which is why we get those happy Skypes when it happens.

P.S. It's the casino's job to spot problem gambling and check SoW/affordability, not the affiliate's.
 
Last edited:
Kroffe said:
This reminded me of a Louis ck bit.
Its funny how typing out "f*ck" is somehow seen as ok by the general public, and "fuck" is not.
Its not like people are reading it "fstarck", everybody reads it as "fuck".

Anyway heres the bit. :p

Click to expand...

Thankyou. Where would we be without you clearing that up for us
 
goatwack said:
Thankyou. Where would we be without you clearing that up for us
Click to expand...

Just trying to set the world right one problem at a time!
hr.gif
 
DoubleTree1962 said:
**snip**
Beware Do Not Bet with Fansbet | Fansbet Defaulting on Payments
Click to expand...

Please refrain from posting links to affiliate sites on here. Read the forum rules.

Thank-you.
 
Kroffe said:
I can throw in another affiliate-related question. @dunover
Do you know how the numbers compare between people like you running an affiliate site, and those who are streaming? I'm guessing the big streamers get a lot of signups, but I have zero ideas how it looks for affiliate sites.

And no, I'm not thinking about becoming an affiliate. =)
I'm sure in time, Netent will see all my shilling and hire me on the spot.
Click to expand...

The biggest buck receive those affiliates whose websites get organic traffic from search engines on keywords like best online casinos or best online casinos + location. Also, very good are online casinos that accept Paypal, Bitcoin, Trustly etc.

Such queries type in not only "small players" but also high rollers and all traffic from there go to affiliate sites that sit on the first 3 spots of Google search or to those that have the most attractive site titles within top 10 results.

For the most part, big players are not stupid and before a game, they look for information including guides, strategies, payment methods, withdrawal times, terms&conditions etc. I this case, those affs at the top of Google search on the topics related keywords will receive all the traffic.

With streamers is a different story. As a rule, their traffic is cheap (low quality). And that's because of the fact that among those people who watch streamers are many who have no single penny in their pocket.

Also, are tons of those whose main target is to take advantage of streamer's exclusive bonuses (free spins or 200% first deposit bonus) and in case of loss or win - never return to a casino again.

Instead of signing up through a streamer's link, many viewers would type in Google a name of the casino or that casino review.

This option would show them websites that Google thinks can answer their query the best and, as a rule, top affiliates or official casino sites would take all the traffic again.

So, I would not advise you to start streaming, mate :D.

You can still become famous and popular by delivering a super-exclusive content on any other subject too ;)
 
Last edited:
Guntis said:
The biggest buck receive those affiliates whose websites get organic traffic from search engines on keywords like best online casinos or best online casinos + location. Also, very good are online casinos that accept Paypal, Bitcoin, Trustly etc.

Such queries type in not only "small players" but also high rollers and all traffic from there go to affiliate sites that sit on the first 3 spots of Google search or to those that have the most attractive site titles within top 10 results.

For the most part, big players are not stupid and before a game, they look for information including guides, strategies, payment methods, withdrawal times, terms&conditions etc. I this case, those affs at the top of Google search on the topics related keywords will receive all the traffic.

With streamers is a different story. As a rule, their traffic is cheap (low quality). And that's because of the fact that among those people who watch streamers are many who have no single penny in their pocket.

Also, are tons of those whose main target is to take advantage of streamer's exclusive bonuses (free spins or 200% first deposit bonus) and in case of loss or win never return to a casino again.

Instead of signing up through a streamer's link, many viewers would type in a Google search bar a name of the casino or that casino review.

This option would show them websites that Google thinks can answer their query the best and, as a rule, top affiliates or official casino sites would take all the traffic again.

So, I would not advise you to start streaming, mate :D.

You can still become famous and popular by delivering a super-exclusive content on any other subject too ;)
Click to expand...

Oh i dont plan on streaming.
The world is not ready for a 9p doa stream yet.

Edit: Oh, and thanks for the answer!
 

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