A CHALLENGE to Cipher and Bethug (merged with Seanjohn's "apology" thread)

[ftg]

Hi, Cipher,

I really find your method/strategy very interesting, amazing. I truly believe some people can win consistently over the the long run and you are one of them definitely!

One question (which you may have answered): Does your method work on Land-based casinos?

Thank you.

 

[cipher]

Hi, Cipher,

I really find your method/strategy very interesting, amazing. I truly believe some people can win consistently over the the long run and you are one of them definitely!

One question (which you may have answered): Does your method work on Land-based casinos?

Thank you.

Hi FTG:

Yes FTG, Cipher seems to be working very well with a group of people that are currently using it in Vegas but only after incorporating a couple things that I learned from the aforementioned Jerry Patterson. Have a good one.

 

[sw2003]

Hi FTG:

Yes FTG, Cipher seems to be working very well with a group of people that are currently using it in Vegas but only after incorporating a couple things that I learned from the aforementioned Jerry Patterson. Have a good one.

You can bring a computer into Vegas casinos? No .....! If not then those people must be working in pairs. One sits in a hotel running the program and the other plays BJ while talking to the first guy on the phone!

 

[spearmaster]

Just some observations and asides...

Computers are small enough to be carried into casinos... your phone is one example. However, you can't use the phone at the table. There is, and always will be, some sort of computer being used by someone hoping to gain an edge at blackjack.

Kenny Uston was not just a counter. He was one of the most brilliant minds alive. Strangely enough, he was also the one who devised the system to beat Pacman

Caruso - stop working from foreign computers... LOL... you must be in France or something. That is one of my pet peeves...

 

[cipher]

You can bring a computer into Vegas casinos? No .....! If not then those people must be working in pairs. One sits in a hotel running the program and the other plays BJ while talking to the first guy on the phone!

There's no need to be that surreptitious or clandestine and there's really no need for a computer in that application either. Have a good one.

 

[cipher]

Just some observations and asides...

Computers are small enough to be carried into casinos... your phone is one example. However, you can't use the phone at the table. There is, and always will be, some sort of computer being used by someone hoping to gain an edge at blackjack.

Kenny Uston was not just a counter. He was one of the most brilliant minds alive. Strangely enough, he was also the one who devised the system to beat Pacman

Caruso - stop working from foreign computers... LOL... you must be in France or something. That is one of my pet peeves...

Yes you're right Spear, Kenny Uston was what we would refer to today as a real piece of work. I'll never forget the time when Kenny was found to have a miniature computer in the heal of his shoe. The pit bosses gaffled him up and confiscated the computer turning the computer over to the Gaming Control Board. But all that came to nothing after the Gaming Control Board came back with their report saying the computers only held commonly known information and nothing of a nefarious nature.

Now if ever someone wanted to make a movie about a guy in Vegas Kenny Uston would be the one to go for, there are still enough of the original CHARACTERS around to make a pretty accurate movie. Have a good one.

 

[sw2003]

Yes you're right Spear, Kenny Uston was what we would refer to today as a real piece of work. I'll never forget the time when Kenny was found to have a miniature computer in the heal of his shoe. The pit bosses gaffled him up and confiscated the computer turning the computer over to the Gaming Control Board. But all that came to nothing after the Gaming Control Board came back with their report saying the computers only held commonly known information and nothing of a nefarious nature.

Now if ever someone wanted to make a movie about a guy in Vegas Kenny Uston would be the one to go for, there are still enough of the original CHARACTERS around to make a pretty accurate movie. Have a good one.

They don't have computer that small in those days! So what are you guys talking about?

 

[cipher]

They don't have computer that small in those days! So what are you guys talking about?

Oh they certainly did. That's just the kind of innovative sort Kenny Uston was. Have a good one.

 

[spearmaster]

Not all computers need to be big. Your calculator was a computer of sorts - so too was your watch.

The only difference between now and then is that Kenny would have hidden away about a billion times more information in the same amount of space Probably would have kept Pacman there as well to hook up to the TV in his hotel room!

I would love to see a movie on Kenny Uston.

 

[Petunia]

** are we there yet?**

 

[jonevegas]

I think you have banned the wrong person. Yea he might be abrasive but he brings up strong points and the answers are all skirted, I have yet to hear an acceptable answer from any of these questions. The fact that somebody actually called them on their BS system to put up or shut up is 100% proper, if I kept posting how my system works wonders and I can make all you people winners and you contacted me and for a fee I will tell how to do it, doesnt that make me just another spammer? Anyway no disrespect to anyone but if you had nothing to hide you would have answered the questions.

 

[sw2003]

Not all computers need to be big. Your calculator was a computer of sorts - so too was your watch.

The only difference between now and then is that Kenny would have hidden away about a billion times more information in the same amount of space Probably would have kept Pacman there as well to hook up to the TV in his hotel room!

I would love to see a movie on Kenny Uston.

If you stretch the word computer, even your tie is a computer! Nope my watch is totally mechanical with clog wheels and things therefore not a computer.

If Kenny did have what you said he had, then he should have given us all Palm Pilot twenty years ago. He would have made much more money that way then sneaking his "computer" into casinos and gambling! No?

So if he was so brilliant, and he did have that computer, why didn't he spot this brilliant business opportunity?? Why? He would have beaten even Microsoft. What you guys are saying is just so unbelievable! Sorry I just don't buy it! He probably had a somewhat more advanced calculator in his shoe and you guys start embellishing everything and elevate him to the level of some god.

 

[cipher]

If you stretch the word computer, even your tie is a computer! Nope my watch is totally mechanical with clog wheels and things therefore not a computer.

If Kenny did have what you said he had, then he should have given us all Palm Pilot twenty years ago. He would have made much more money that way then sneaking his "computer" into casinos and gambling! No?

So if he was so brilliant, and he did have that computer, why didn't he spot this brilliant business opportunity?? Why? He would have beaten even Microsoft. What you guys are saying is just so unbelievable! Sorry I just don't buy it! He probably had a somewhat more advanced calculator in his shoe and you guys start embellishing everything and elevate him to the level of some god.

There are any of a hundred plus search engines on the Internet and with your advanced technical capabilities I'm sure you're more than capable of running a search on the name KENNY USTON.

 

[cipher]

I think you have banned the wrong person. Yea he might be abrasive but he brings up strong points and the answers are all skirted, I have yet to hear an acceptable answer from any of these questions. The fact that somebody actually called them on their BS system to put up or shut up is 100% proper, if I kept posting how my system works wonders and I can make all you people winners and you contacted me and for a fee I will tell how to do it, doesnt that make me just another spammer? Anyway no disrespect to anyone but if you had nothing to hide you would have answered the questions.

You obviously havn't got a clue as to what you're talking about. Either that or you're now posting under a different IP address than you had before.

First off, there was not a single question that wasn't thorougly answered.

Secondly, I have not made any claim whatsoever about Cipher working wonders for anyone other than myself.

 

[bpb]

First off, there was not a single question that wasn't thorougly answered.

I could not find your answer to the question that started this train wreck of a thread.

1, Why would you need a boss/client when you have an edge in online gambling?.

I would appreciate it if you could post a link to your post which answered this question.

 

[cipher]

I could not find your answer to the question that started this train wreck of a thread.



I would appreciate it if you could post a link to your post which answered this question.

"Why would you need a boss/client when you have an edge in online gambling?."

The very simple fact of the matter is this bpb. I DON'T NEED A BOSS OR A CLIENT. Having said that, I've been doing this for some six plus years now and when I sarted out it was very helpful to have those clients along side. Now, I suppose I could have pulled the plug long ago on those people but I just don't think it would be the "right" thing to do. Do you? Have a good one.

 

[spearmaster]

sw2003, I think you are avoiding the fact that digital watches have existed for at least 30 years. I wasn't specifically talking about YOUR watch.

Whether you buy it or not is your business - but I am not in the habit of talking shit. And nothing Cipher has said so far in this thread says anything about "guaranteed win", "money-back guarantee" , or even "winning system".

A calculator is every bit a computer as your PC is. Just not nearly as powerful, nor does it need to be.

 

[DealerBusts]

If you stretch the word computer, even your tie is a computer! Nope my watch is totally mechanical with clog wheels and things therefore not a computer.

Its easy to forget the humble beginnings of the computer and the principle behind the idea. Its basically a machine to perform logical operations using 1 and 0. This can for example be achived mechanically using a machine to read holes on a card to represent the 1s and 0s.

A calculator is definitely an early computer. Intel's (i'm sure you've heard of them, think Pentium and PC) early processors were used for calculators.

sw2003, your mechanical watch is not a computer because it is not digital, it doesn't make use of 1s and 0s to work (through mechanics or transistors).
Its easy to think of a computer as just the PC on your desk running Windows but most computers are embedded into everyday devices and appliances that you wouldn't think about, such as your microwave and washing machine.

 

[bpb]

"Why would you need a boss/client when you have an edge in online gambling?."

The very simple fact of the matter is this bpb. I DON'T NEED A BOSS OR A CLIENT. Having said that, I've been doing this for some six plus years now and when I sarted out it was very helpful to have those clients along side. Now, I suppose I could have pulled the plug long ago on those people but I just don't think it would be the "right" thing to do. Do you? Have a good one.

To make the question more specific then, why did you originally need a boss/client when you discovered that you had an edge in online gambling? Are the edges that you are pushing small enough that it would have taken too long for you to build your bankroll on your own to a point where you could generate worthwhile returns?

 

[cipher]

To make the question more specific then, why did you originally need a boss/client when you discovered that you had an edge in online gambling? Are the edges that you are pushing small enough that it would have taken too long for you to build your bankroll on your own to a point where you could generate worthwhile returns?

Ya know bpb, I've really tried giving you the benefit of the doubt. But some of the things you come up with are nothing short of juvenile and I'm really having some serious doubts if you are even old enough to gamble.

 

[caruso]

Kenny Uston was not just a counter. He was one of the most brilliant minds alive. Strangely enough, he was also the one who devised the system to beat Pacman

Caruso - stop working from foreign computers... LOL... you must be in France or something. That is one of my pet peeves...

LOL, Spain actually. I think Ive got my head around it now, however.

Uston may have been many things, but this relates to his blackjack. He was a counter. His blackjack techniques were proven. He was not a "progressionist" or a "trendist" or anything else. One could try to claim such at CM, since this is not a blackjack forum and doesnt have a BJ-savvy audience. If anyone is unsure about this, post about it at advantageplayer, bjmath or bj21. His methods require no proving as theyre already proven - MATHEMATICALLY. The "proof" does not come in the form of pointless claims on anonymous message boards.

Sorry for any incoherence above, but time is running short on this spectacularly over-priced internet station.

 

[bpb]

Ya know bpb, I've really tried giving you the benefit of the doubt. But some of the things you come up with are nothing short of juvenile and I'm really having some serious doubts if you are even old enough to gamble.

What in God's name was juvenile about that question? Poker players and BJ card counters frequently seek backers in order to play with a bankroll above their current means, as they can earn more money by jumping into a higher game now and splitting the profits with backers rather than building their own bankroll. I was asking if this was your rationale for taking backers at the start.

You went off on a poster stating that every question asked in this thread has been answered. I still see no answer to the question that started this thread. Every civil attempt to get one has been met with nothing but insults.

 

[spearmaster]

LOL, Spain actually. I think Ive got my head around it now, however.

LOL. Strangely enough, when I was in Barcelona last month, the resort had an English keyboard... but Spanish Windows!

And upon leaving, I went into the Air France lounge... and that blasted computer had a French keyboard... and sometimes even when I am in the UK, they use UK keyboards which have a slightly different key layout to American keyboards... for example " and @ are switched around...

Uston was a master counter, that's for sure. His books are a really interesting read as well.

Sorry for any incoherence above, but time is running short on this spectacularly over-priced internet station.

That'll teach you to take holidays in Spain

 

[cipher]

What in God's name was juvenile about that question? Poker players and BJ card counters frequently seek backers in order to play with a bankroll above their current means, as they can earn more money by jumping into a higher game now and splitting the profits with backers rather than building their own bankroll. I was asking if this was your rationale for taking backers at the start.

You went off on a poster stating that every question asked in this thread has been answered. I still see no answer to the question that started this thread. Every civil attempt to get one has been met with nothing but insults.

Why I do what I do at anytime is of absolutely no concern to you or anyone else on this forum or any other forum.

 

[Petunia]

**Are we there yet, or are we still going round the bush?**

 

[bethug]

bpb, do you even play?

 

[bpb]

Had you given this response to jonvegas

Why I do what I do at anytime is of absolutely no concern to you or anyone else on this forum or any other forum.

instead of this one

First off, there was not a single question that wasn't thorougly answered.

I would not have pressed the issue. Given the latter response, I thought you were open to responding to the questions posed repeatedly throughout this thread, or that perhaps I had missed those responses. I was mistaken.

bpb, do you even play?

I'm not sure what prompted this question, but I'm happy to answer it. I gamble quite a bit online, and to a lesser extent offline. 99% of the time, I only gamble when I have the best of it (ie my wager has a positive expectation). I have absolutely no problem with people who gamble without having the best of it, its just not something I enjoy.

 

[sw2003]

sw2003, I think you are avoiding the fact that digital watches have existed for at least 30 years. I wasn't specifically talking about YOUR watch.

Whether you buy it or not is your business - but I am not in the habit of talking shit. And nothing Cipher has said so far in this thread says anything about "guaranteed win", "money-back guarantee" , or even "winning system".

A calculator is every bit a computer as your PC is. Just not nearly as powerful, nor does it need to be.

Er.............. I was talking specifically about Kenny Uston and his adventures with small computer, not cipher, bethug, Black21jack's betting system.
Please don't drag me into the betting system mess!

Yes but a calculator only does calculations, in general not capable of making other decisions like a computer could etc. I would have no problem if you said he had an advanced calculator in his shoes which is a very different thing from saying he had a palmpilot in his shoes.

 

[bethug]

bpb, are you up this year? and why do you seem to believe no body doing well? What games to you play, do you flat bet?

 

[sw2003]

There are any of a hundred plus search engines on the Internet and with your advanced technical capabilities I'm sure you're more than capable of running a search on the name KENNY USTON.

No I have not any advanced tech. capabilities! If you do, please do the search and copy a paste any stories or links here! Thanks!

 

[Macgyver]

No I have not any advanced tech. capabilities! If you do, please do the search and copy a paste any stories or links here! Thanks!

Go to www.google.com

Type in "Kenny Uston" (with the quotes) and hit enter.

I got 273 hits, but I'm not posting all those links.

On second thought, here's the top one:

Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

 

[spearmaster]

Er.............. I was talking specifically about Kenny Uston and his adventures with small computer, not cipher, bethug, Black21jack's betting system.
Please don't drag me into the betting system mess!

Sorry... LOL...

Yes but a calculator only does calculations, in general not capable of making other decisions like a computer could etc. I would have no problem if you said he had an advanced calculator in his shoes which is a very different thing from saying he had a palmpilot in his shoes.

It was not a calculator because it didn't function like a calculator. A calculator is one form of computer, just as a palm pilot is, just as a digital watch is - and the computer in his shoe could not easily be classified as something else.

No point in nitpicking. For all we know he had an advanced form of the Intel Centrino in his shoe. It is clear, however, that the device in his shoe influenced his decision-making process - as far as I am concerned, that's a computer.

 

[bpb]

bpb, are you up this year? and why do you seem to believe no body doing well? What games to you play, do you flat bet?

I'm up quite a bit. And I don't think I've ever said that I don't believe that people are doing well. I only have issues with people who claim to have the best of it when they do not. Many people win when they don't have the best of it in the short term. Some are overall winners in the long term. A few can even be lifetime winners.

I play mostly BJ and its variants (switch, C21, Pontoon). I rarely flat bet, mostly I use positive progression systems. I'm willing to accept high volatility in exchange for shorter session time. The majority of my online gambling is done at the poker tables.

 

[bethug]

bpb, so u do well at playtec, what the most you won at a playtec casino?

 

[bpb]

bpb, so u do well at playtec, what the most you won at a playtec casino?

I posted back to back wins of $1,300 and $450 at Carnival. Overall, I am up about $3,000 at about a dozen Playtech's. I like BJ Switch, but I think C21 at RTG is more interesting/fun.

 

[bethug]

what is your intial depost at playtec?
I am so scared to drop more than 100 in a playtec, the reason i am asking

 

[bpb]

what is your intial depost at playtec?
I am so scared to drop more than 100 in a playtec, the reason i am asking

Between $100 and $300

 

[vgyhnji]

Hi all.

Seanjohn (remember him!) used the wrong tone he has been penalised he has apologised hopefully he will have learnt.

No offence to Cipher but I will pick on him by example only.

Is Cipher genuine

no because he is not willing to prove himself by giving out his system/strategy to the world for free.

yes but to protect his income he is not giving out his system/strategy to the world for free.

Genuine or not Cipher and others like him cannot settle these arguments here.

I have refrained from posting here since earlier in the year for two reasons.

1. Though internet anonymity is a defence for the genuine poster it is also a line of attack for the rogues in us all. I can pretty well post what I like (if I word it correctly) about a.n.other and you can all read it believing it or not.

2. I dont play online during the summer and do not have the time to concentrate on, or contribute to, the forum. I concentrate solely on making money on horse racing using my own system and betting strategy. It is very successful.

Now when I talk to friends and relatives (or just about anyone who is interested in listening to me!) about my success I get a variety of responses from the well done thats great can you do it for me! through to the no way, no-one can make money from gambling, you were just lucky etc. Sounds familiar does it not?

But the principles in the above are all the same in this thread, believe or dont believe (in my case thats my friends and relatives Im talking about nobody in there is at all anonymous but I still dont tell them how my system works!), neither side is going to win. Its a lose, lose situation.

To find out the correct answer..Im going to pull the petals off a daisy, she loves me, she loves me not, she loves me, they make money, they make money not, they ma!!!!!!!!!

 

[DarthVader]

black21jack

I will not post anymore on this. I am, as I write this setting a calendar reminder in my Blackberry for November 29, 2005 to come to this thread and post with how much I have won, how much I have lost, and whether I am still retired doing what I am doing. Until then I say to this thread bye bye.

Hmmm, I waited and waited, but my shuttle couldn't wait any longer. I'm presently STILL trying to get over this wicked New Year's Day bash that was held at the Jawa's Palace (invitation only). Personally, with Luck'N Roll still not paying me, and IG-88 still not having the resources or the connections (fool ), to help him locate their headquarters, I've had it with EARTH's "online" casinos. If black21jack was in fact in retirement mode, I was going to page Bossk to figure-out how to locate his IP address, and send an entire squadron of Biker-Scouts w/AT-ST's waiting for him at his door. Unfortunately, Bossk has yet to complete his training with the alphabet, but I'm patient with him. There are positive signs there... his phonics are fine, it's the consonants that are holding him back (if you can believe it).

To be frank, I also want to retire (and Costa Rica is looking REALLY nice). I can't take it anymore, having to make all the big decisions. I just want to have enough time to finally get around to watching the entire LOTR trilogy. And, I've had it up to here with this frickin' mask. I can hardly breathe in it.



Vader

 

[liquidsoap]

black21jack





Hmmm, I waited and waited, but my shuttle couldn't wait any longer. I'm presently STILL trying to get over this wicked New Year's Day bash that was held at the Jawa's Palace (invitation only). Personally, with Luck'N Roll still not paying me, and IG-88 still not having the resources or the connections (fool ), to help him locate their headquarters, I've had it with EARTH's "online" casinos. If black21jack was in fact in retirement mode, I was going to page Bossk to figure-out how to locate his IP address, and send an entire squadron of Biker-Scouts w/AT-ST's waiting for him at his door. Unfortunately, Bossk has yet to complete his training with the alphabet, but I'm patient with him. There are positive signs there... his phonics are fine, it's the consonants that are holding him back (if you can believe it).

To be frank, I also want to retire (and Costa Rica is looking REALLY nice). I can't take it anymore, having to make all the big decisions. I just want to have enough time to finally get around to watching the entire LOTR trilogy. And, I've had it up to here with this frickin' mask. I can hardly breathe in it.



Vader

my o my you really know how to make my day, thanks