21.co.uk Casino Problem

[paul7388]

So im taking it needhelp21 you regularly self exclude from casinos then join sister sites, lose then want refunds of deposits.

It was only a few days ago you signed up and asked the question about 21.co.uk and that surely they should refund your deposits as you are self excluded from casinos in their group so shouldn't have been allowed to sign up.

Now you are trying to get refunds from Betspin as you signed up lost and now because you are self excluded at Guts its the same and deposits should be returned.

How many more casinos are going to come up in the future. You keep depositing and losing through your own fault and then blame casinos for letting you play.

Once may be a mistake but that's 2 in a few days.

This seems to be getting very common amongst different forums now. So many cases of people signing up to groups they are self excluded from, losing and then trying to get money back.

 

[CasinoBen]

Thanks for the reply Ben. Surely after customer support confirmed that had I won I wouldn't have been allowed to keep those winnings then there is no moral basis for keeping my deposit on Betspin?

If you PM me your details I can have someone look into this for you.

Best regards,

Ben

 

[paul7388]

In fact you joined this thread today yet you started one about 21.co.uk four daysago wanting refunds. https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/21-co-uk.66396/?t=66396

 

[needhelp21]

Sure, that doesn't make the idea of casinos being happy to take your deposits but voiding your winnings any more acceptable though.

 

[paul7388]

Sure, that doesn't make the idea of casinos being happy to take your deposits but voiding your winnings any more acceptable though.

No but it makes it look like you are deliberately trying to sign up to casinos you are excluded from others in their groups. If they do not let you sign up it looks like you are trying others until you get a casino that lets you register.

Its win win for you and lose all the way for casinos. You manage to sign up and if you win you will try to withdraw and if successful all good. If you lose or withdrawal is declined you pull the I am self excluded from such and such casino so I shouldn't have been allowed to register so I should get my deposits returned.

 

[needhelp21]

No but it makes it look like you are deliberately trying to sign up to casinos you are excluded from others in their groups. If they do not let you sign up it looks like you are trying others until you get a casino that lets you register.

Its win win for you and lose all the way for casinos. You manage to sign up and if you win you will try to withdraw and if successful all good. If you lose or withdrawal is declined you pull the I am self excluded from such and such casino so I shouldn't have been allowed to register so I should get my deposits returned.

How is it win win? Betspin have kept my deposit. I lost. Therefore not win/win. It's win/win for them, keep my deposit if I lose and void my winnings if I win. And they don't make it obvious that they have a sister site either, I had to google it in fact. It's rogueish.

Funnily enough, after confirming that I was excluded before bring this up, somebody at betspin/guts has altered something on my account and is claiming that I wasn't excluded at guts, and that I now am as from 35 minutes ago. After their support digging them into a hole regarding this situation and their policy on it, things have conveniently transpired before my very eyes into a scenario which happens to be the only scenario that the casino would get to keep the money. Absolutely outrageous that these guys are accredited imo.

 

[Tirilej]

How is it win win? Betspin have kept my deposit. I lost. Therefore not win/win. It's win/win for them, keep my deposit if I lose and void my winnings if I win. And they don't make it obvious that they have a sister site either, I had to google it in fact. It's rogueish.

Funnily enough, after confirming that I was excluded before bring this up, somebody at betspin/guts has altered something on my account and is claiming that I wasn't excluded at guts, and that I now am as from 35 minutes ago. After their support digging them into a hole regarding this situation and their policy on it, things have conveniently transpired before my very eyes into a scenario which happens to be the only scenario that the casino would get to keep the money. Absolutely outrageous that these guys are accredited imo.

Maybe you just asked to get your account closed, and not excluded. It's a difference.

No matter what, you did lose at Betspin, and if you are excluding yourself from casinos because of gambling problems then maybe it's time to do something about it?

 

[needhelp21]

Chat transcript



Email -

UserID -1

FirstName FirstName

LastName LastName




Emir Thu, 03/19/15 08:22:14 pm Europe/Berlin

Hello Client. How may I help you?





Client 08:24:20 pm

hi
can you confirm when the exclusion on my account ends please





Emir 08:24:46 pm

What is your username and I will have a look, one moment





Client 08:25:05 pm

********* is my login





Emir 08:26:17 pm

You decided to close your account permanently, so your account will not be reopened I am afraid





Client 08:26:31 pm

did i self exclude





Emir 08:27:02 pm

Yes





Client 08:27:17 pm

okay thank you

 

[needhelp21]

Old / Expired Link

Now there's the log Ben is sending me. I was suddenly excluded a minute BEFORE i gave emir my login details and asked the question. Funny coincidence that, don't you think? Naughty boys.

 

[CasinoBen]

Old / Expired Link

Now there's the log Ben is sending me. I was suddenly excluded a minute BEFORE i gave emir my login details and asked the question. Funny coincidence that, don't you think? Naughty boys.

You were excluded from Guts a few minutes prior to live chat confirming, I am not saying anything different. Your original case was that you were excluded from Guts prior to self excluding from Betspin so you could try to claim your deposits back from Betspin, correct?

As I have said to you now in multiple PM's please sent the complaint to the UKGC and I would provide them with all the information.

Ben

 

[Tirilej]

You were excluded from Guts a few minutes prior to live chat confirming, I am not saying anything different. Your original case was that you were excluded from Guts prior to self excluding from Betspin so you could try to claim your deposits back from Betspin, correct?

As I have said to you now in multiple PM's please sent the complaint to the UKGC and I would provide them with all the information.

Ben

So he excluded himself from Guts and went to Betspin to ask. Then wanted his deposits back. Wow!

 

[needhelp21]

You were excluded from Guts a few minutes prior to live chat confirming, I am not saying anything different. Your original case was that you were excluded from Guts prior to self excluding from Betspin so you could try to claim your deposits back from Betspin, correct?

As I have said to you now in multiple PM's please sent the complaint to the UKGC and I would provide them with all the information.

Ben

A bit odd that an account I had with guts that I knew was excluded now happens to curiously show to have been excluded a minute before I asked emir to confirm those details. Very strange indeed. Especially given the hole your customer support dug themselves into about winnings being voided. It's as if this is what needed to happen for you lot to have any grounds for keeping my deposit, and it happened. What triggered the exclusion at 7.24 then? A password request 4 minutes earlier? An odd thing to trigger it. And with 4 minutes delay. With digital technology? Somebody somewhere has editted something. It's frivolous asking the UKGC to do anything about it when you can basically log whatever you choose to. I just hope everybody sees you for what you are, I.e liars.

 

[CasinoBen]

A bit odd that an account I had with guts that I knew was excluded now happens to curiously show to have been excluded a minute before I asked emir to confirm those details. Very strange indeed. Especially given the hole your customer support dug themselves into about winnings being voided. It's as if this is what needed to happen for you lot to have any grounds for keeping my deposit, and it happened. What triggered the exclusion at 7.24 then? A password request 4 minutes earlier? An odd thing to trigger it. And with 4 minutes delay. With digital technology? Somebody somewhere has editted something. It's frivolous asking the UKGC to do anything about it when you can basically log whatever you choose to. I just hope everybody sees you for what you are, I.e liars.

OK, lets do this one final time.

You were not excluded from Guts before today. There is no reason for me to adjust the logs or actually anyway to do that and why would we.

Why not PAB if you don't want to go to the UKGC. I will have Max provided with all the logs from Guts and Betspin, he can even look at our server logs which would show if anything was changed or altered. I have nothing to hide nor does anyone that works for Guts.

Ben

 

[needhelp21]

OK, lets do this one final time.

You were not excluded from Guts before today. There is no reason for me to adjust the logs or actually anyway to do that and why would we.

Why not PAB if you don't want to go to the UKGC. I will have Max provided with all the logs from Guts and Betspin, he can even look at our server logs which would show if anything was changed or altered. I have nothing to hide nor does anyone that works for Guts.

Ben

You're failing to answer what triggered the exclusion from guts. I excluded from betspin a week ago nearly, so it wasn't that. What happened specifically at 7.24 to trigger that exclusion. It's too convenient. I won't involve the UKGC or PAB, because we both know that any "evidence" you do supply will miraculously show that I was excluded a minute before giving Emir my login details, 5 days after excluding from betspin, and 4 minutes after requesting a new password. Yet I funnily enough confidently stated in this thread before that time that I was excluded, it now transpires that I wasn't but then was, suddenly. Get lost Ben, you're a joke if you expect anybody to believe that. I'll dispute the transaction with my bank. I know I was excluded and you do as well. I exclude from all casinos when I stop using them. I'm assuming deposit limits aren't applied across the full network too by the way, but exclusions are? That'd be convenient too.

Hope the money goes towards a nice xmas party for the guts.com if you do get to keep it, I'll just post my amazing story around the web so people know what they're dealing with. Good night

 

[needhelp21]

"Hi Lee,

I have just talked to Guts and I am not being dishonest. Their support said you were self excluded there today at 8:27 PM.

They will also contact you about this issue. It is importent that everything is correct."


Yet Ben's screengrab says 8.24. It's weird how they give such specific times yet they vary so very much. Must be those logs I suppose the 4 and the 7 are close together. Typo in the time given in the above email Ben? That'd be convenient too.

 

[cncas123]

So im taking it needhelp21 you regularly self exclude from casinos then join sister sites, lose then want refunds of deposits.



This seems to be getting very common amongst different forums now. So many cases of people signing up to groups they are self excluded from, losing and then trying to get money back.

But remember, they are always the first to complain if any winnings are withheld because they have self excluded at sister sites. Pretty immoral, and as I said on a previous thread people like this give genuine punters a bad name, and its little wonder that casinos/players can be suspicious of each other when this is going on. It cannot be condoned at any level and in my mind its tantamount to fraud.

 

[needhelp21]

Fraud is all the different times being given for when I actually excluded. They can't make their minds up. Yet you'd think when they're taking reference from a log they'd all provide the same time. Fishy and fraudy.

 

[CasinoBen]

Fraud is all the different times being given for when I actually excluded. They can't make their minds up. Yet you'd think when they're taking reference from a log they'd all provide the same time. Fishy and fraudy.

I sent you the screenshot of the log.

I have no idea who that other message was from but it is possible that they got the time mixed up and put a 7 instead of a 4, I don't know as I don't know who that was in the message that you copied so can't ask them.

I would link the screenshot here but it shows your personal information.

Ben

 

[needhelp21]

I sent you the screenshot of the log.

I have no idea who that other message was from but it is possible that they got the time mixed up and put a 7 instead of a 4, I don't know as I don't know who that was in the message that you copied so can't ask them.

I would link the screenshot here but it shows your personal information.

Ben

Maybe it was 8.27 then when it transpired that emir had confirmed my exclusion at 8.25 then it all of a sudden became 8.24? You're obviously well liked on here, fair enough. But for anybody reading this from a neutral point of view will clearly see the suspicious chain of events that have transpired over there. Anomalies in the information being provided, coincidental and convenient revelations etc. You're an embarrassment mate. I'd have had more respect for you if you'd just admitted that I was excluded but told me to whistle for the refund! Ah well, so be it. Good night.

 

[brianmon]

I thought Guts and Betspin weren't that closely connected?
I closed my account at Guts some time ago, and apparently it can't be reopened.
But I joined Betspin recently and have made 3 deposits, would that mean, if I had of won anything and made a withdrawal, that my winnings would have been voided?

 

[needhelp21]

I thought Guts and Betspin weren't that closely connected?
I closed my account at Guts some time ago, and apparently it can't be reopened.
But I joined Betspin recently and have made 3 deposits, would that mean, if I had of won anything and made a withdrawal, that my winnings would have been voided?

According to Betspin themselves mate you wouldn't have been paid. I bet you're suddenly not excluded from guts too now that you've said that though

 

[CasinoBen]

Maybe it was 8.27 then when it transpired that emir had confirmed my exclusion at 8.25 then it all of a sudden became 8.24? You're obviously well liked on here, fair enough. But for anybody reading this from a neutral point of view will clearly see the suspicious chain of events that have transpired over there. Anomalies in the information being provided, coincidental and convenient revelations etc. You're an embarrassment mate. I'd have had more respect for you if you'd just admitted that I was excluded but told me to whistle for the refund! Ah well, so be it. Good night.

You excluded at 20:24:54CET today. At 20:27 (not sure of the seconds) was when you closed the chat with Emir and just before the chat ended he confirmed that your account was excluded. I cannot see the exact time that he told you that you were excluded as the live chat logs don't show that.

You were not excluded from Guts prior to playing at Betspin which was your initial claim to "whistle" for the refund.

Ben

 

[CasinoBen]

I thought Guts and Betspin weren't that closely connected?
I closed my account at Guts some time ago, and apparently it can't be reopened.
But I joined Betspin recently and have made 3 deposits, would that mean, if I had of won anything and made a withdrawal, that my winnings would have been voided?

Hi Brian,

I will have this looked into as if you self excluded from the license that we operate on now you should not be able to open and deposit at Betspin.

Will get back to you tomorrow.

Ben

 

[needhelp21]

You excluded at 20:24:54CET today. At 20:27 (not sure of the seconds) was when you closed the chat with Emir and just before the chat ended he confirmed that your account was excluded. I cannot see the exact time that he told you that you were excluded as the live chat logs don't show that.

You were not excluded from Guts prior to playing at Betspin which was your initial claim to "whistle" for the refund.

Ben

Apart from the fact that I was. The live chat logs don't show the time? Yet your operator sent me a log of the conversation after I requested it.

Chat transcript



Email -

UserID -1

FirstName FirstName

LastName LastName




Emir Thu, 03/19/15 08:22:14 pm Europe/Berlin

Hello Client. How may I help you?





Client 08:24:20 pm

hi
can you confirm when the exclusion on my account ends please





Emir 08:24:46 pm

What is your username and I will have a look, one moment





Client 08:25:05 pm

****** is my login





Emir 08:26:17 pm

You decided to close your account permanently, so your account will not be reopened I am afraid





Client 08:26:31 pm

did i self exclude





Emir 08:27:02 pm

Yes





Client 08:27:17 pm

okay thank you





Emir 08:27:19 pm

Anytime






Client closed the chat.
08:27:29 pm



There it is. And it clearly does show the times. Are these DIFFERENT logs? More anomalies.

 

[needhelp21]

I started the chat at 8.22. I was excluded at 8.24. I didn't give the lad my login info till 8.25. Nice mate. Really believable. Oh and betspin say 8.27 not 8.24. LOL! That's all.