Bonus Complaint 10bet miscalculates wagering requirement and refuses to correct.

[LegatoPoker]

Hello all!

I am new to the forum, but a veteran in terms of gambling Been a professional poker player for 10 years, but am lately more and more attracted by casino games.

Unfortunately I currently have a frustrating issue with 10bet.com, a casino accredited by Casinomeister, and also a casino I found through the accredited list here.

What has happened?

• June 2nd: I deposit 1,650 Swedish Crowns for the first bonus. I lose the deposit and bonus.
• June 2nd: I deposit 4,500 Swedish Crowns for the second bonus (50% = 2,250 Swedish Crowns).
• June 4th: I realize and prove that only about 60% of my wagering are included in their wagering calculations.
• June 4th: Numerous e-mails back and forth with support who refuses to acknowledge the problem.
• June 5th: Support promises that the casino management will look at the issue (allegedly a second time) and get back to me.
• June 11th: After several reminders I have still not heard from casino management. Neither have I received an extension to the 15 days you are allowed to wager the bonus. Thus I found it necessary to take the issue here.

What is wrong?

• According to their terms my wagering requirement would be 35*(4,500+2,250) = 236,250
• After wagering in excess of 250,000 support claims I still need to wager 77,632
• Interestingly enough they also miscalculate my initial WR to 229,688
• According to their terms only "3D-slots" count as 100%. Since there is no section with "3D-slots" I asked support for a clarification.Two different support agents have both verified that all slots count 100% towards wagering requirements.

How can I be sure they miscalculate?

• On 10Bet you need to e-mail to get updates as to how much you still need to wager.
• After a few updates I started to realize the calulations were not correct.
• I started keeping track of bets. After placing around 45,000 in bets I asked for a new update and support told me I only wagered approx 25,000.
• After support refused to admit that the calculations were wrong I made a simple test. I asked support how much wagering I had left, the answer was 77,749.87 (interesting too since I´ve only wagered even numbers).
• I made 5 bets of 40 each on the "Megadeth" slot for a total wager of 5*40 = 200.
• Once again I asked support for an update on my wagering. Their reply was 77,631.50.
• 77,749.87 - 77,631.50 = 118.37.
• 118.37 / 200 = 59,185% which seems to be how much they count my wagering.
• Note that I waited several hours after my last bet to be sure their system was fully updated.

Obviously there is an error here. The big surprise to me is not the error in itself but the fact that 10Bet refuses to acknowledge and correct the situation. They blame their system and claim it counts correctly!

I suspect the error is because of some strange currency conversion in their system, but it is just an educated guess. All I know for sure is that their system doesn´t do the math correctly.

Since I only have a few days left to complete the wagering requirements for the bonus, I need urgent help to resolve this issue! Obviously I will be happy to share any e-mails or anything else you want to see.

I have made [email protected] (the contact posted on Casinomeister) aware of this thread.

 

[LegatoPoker]

Update

Time is running out. Please help!

I would really appreciate any help with this! Since I have no help so far I will soon be forced to wager my money so that my money will not be taken from me. Like I said, they are effectively forcing me to wager about 60*(deposit+bonus) while still claiming it is 35*...

• Nothing new on the matter from 10Bet.
• I have tried to do a PaB here but for some reason the site won´t let me (no access to the complaint form).
• I have e-mailed Casinomeister about the PaB. No response.
• So far no response here in the forum.
  [*]I really don´t know what do do? Please help!

 

[Borgie]

Did the rep reply to you ?

Did you PM her?

 

[Janek12]

Time is running out. Please help!

If the 10bet really screwed up and I believe you that they did, I think you don't have to worry about the time limit.

If 10bet chooses to be reasonable and resolve this issue appropriately (I would think that otherwise they would lose their accredited status), I would expect that they will also extend the time limit.

Thank you for this post; I have just registered there a few days ago and have not deposited yet; now I know to stay away from them until they get their act together.

 

[Googobucs]

[*]June 2nd: I deposit 4,500 Swedish Crowns for the second bonus (50% = 2,250 Swedish Crowns).


[*] I made 5 bets of 40 each on the "Megadeth" slot for a total wager of 5*40 = 200.

Well one problem I see is that you made a wager of 40 but they have a bet limit of 5% of the deposit which would be 2.25? Perhaps they are only giving you credit for the 5%.

In the interest of fair gaming and to prevent bonus manipulation, 10Bet will take protective measures from customers, who claimed a deposit bonus and placed bets equal to or more than 5% of their deposited amount while the bonus was active in their account or bet size of 6.25, whichever is lower. In the case of Cashbacks,free no deposit bonuses and free sign up bonuses of small amounts, this rule applies to bets equal to or more than 5% of the bonus amount credited or bet size of 6.25, whichever is lower. These measures include removal of such winnings upon management discretion. In the case of Cashbacks, free no deposit bonuses and free sign up bonuses of small amounts players are allowed to play with the minimum bet size on any slot game (that's between 10 and 50 cents depending on the game) regardless of the bonus amount. Example: player has 5 Euro free sign up bonus and plays a slot game with 30 Euro cents minimum bet -> player is not in breach of term 25; player has a free bonus of 5 Euro and is placing bets of more than 50 euro cents on any game -> player is in breach of term 25.

In any case, the rep should certainly respond to you. Are you sure they have not told you that you broke the bonus terms? A bet of 40 would be bonus abuse based on their T & C item #25 above.

 

[LegatoPoker]

Did the rep reply to you ?

Did you PM her?

No reply. I e-mailed her when I started this thread. I PM:ed her now as well just to be double sure she is aware of the thread.

 

[LegatoPoker]

If the 10bet really screwed up and I believe you that they did, I think you don't have to worry about the time limit.

If 10bet chooses to be reasonable and resolve this issue appropriately (I would think that otherwise they would lose their accredited status), I would expect that they will also extend the time limit.

Thank you for this post; I have just registered there a few days ago and have not deposited yet; now I know to stay away from them until they get their act together.

I have e-mailed them twice asking them to extend the time limit. They have ignored the requests.

I currently have 21.000 Swedish crowns in the account, equivalent to approx $3.000. I am afraid of risking it, seeing how they are not responding to the other things here. Obviously I don´t want to wager more either. I have wagered more than required and the requirement is tough as is!

I was expecting a quick resolution after posting here since they are accredited. But the fact that I can not post a PaB, that Casinomeister isn´t responding to my e-mail nor here makes me very worried

I was thinking exactly like you do, "don´t worry, they are accredited", but I am much more concerned now...

 

[LegatoPoker]

Well one problem I see is that you made a wager of 40 but they have a bet limit of 5% of the deposit which would be 2.25? Perhaps they are only giving you credit for the 5%.

In the interest of fair gaming and to prevent bonus manipulation, 10Bet will take protective measures from customers, who claimed a deposit bonus and placed bets equal to or more than 5% of their deposited amount while the bonus was active in their account or bet size of 6.25, whichever is lower. In the case of Cashbacks,free no deposit bonuses and free sign up bonuses of small amounts, this rule applies to bets equal to or more than 5% of the bonus amount credited or bet size of 6.25, whichever is lower. These measures include removal of such winnings upon management discretion. In the case of Cashbacks, free no deposit bonuses and free sign up bonuses of small amounts players are allowed to play with the minimum bet size on any slot game (that's between 10 and 50 cents depending on the game) regardless of the bonus amount. Example: player has 5 Euro free sign up bonus and plays a slot game with 30 Euro cents minimum bet -> player is not in breach of term 25; player has a free bonus of 5 Euro and is placing bets of more than 50 euro cents on any game -> player is in breach of term 25.

In any case, the rep should certainly respond to you. Are you sure they have not told you that you broke the bonus terms? A bet of 40 would be bonus abuse based on their T & C item #25 above.

5% of 4500 = 225 > 40

$6.25 = 42 Swedish Crowns > 40

If they want to be super predatory with their rules they could claim that the 6.25 is in local currency, but that would be pretty insane. It would mean they wouldn´t let me bet more than 0,1% of my initial balance!!

Also, they have never said anything about this rule nor about breaking it, they have only claimed that my wagering is approx 40% lower than it has actually been. If they (hypothetically) would have gone the predatory way and only counted 6.25 out of the 40 bets it would reduce the wagering by approx 85%, not 40%.

 

[Googobucs]

5% of 4500 = 225 > 40

$6.25 = 42 Swedish Crowns > 40

If they want to be super predatory with their rules they could claim that the 6.25 is in local currency, but that would be pretty insane. It would mean they wouldn´t let me bet more than 0,1% of my initial balance!!

Also, they have never said anything about this rule nor about breaking it, they have only claimed that my wagering is approx 40% lower than it has actually been. If they (hypothetically) would have gone the predatory way and only counted 6.25 out of the 40 bets it would reduce the wagering by approx 85%, not 40%.

I'm not an expert in non-US currency hence the ? after the 2.25.

I see that the rep has not been active here since May 8th. That is a long time. Could be on a long vacation. The web site does show a phone number and live chat options. have you tried to call them? Sometimes it's easier to explain something verbally than in an e-mail or chat. Phone Number: 359(0)32-502023

 

[LegatoPoker]

I'm not an expert in non-US currency hence the ? after the 2.25.

I see that the rep has not been active here since May 8th. That is a long time. Could be on a long vacation. The web site does show a phone number and live chat options. have you tried to call them? Sometimes it's easier to explain something verbally than in an e-mail or chat. Phone Number: 359(0)32-502023

I have e-mailed them so many times, and talked with so many reps that it is obvious to me that they have no interest in trying to solve this unless someone with "power" like Casinomeister helps out. I don´t think it´s a matter of not understanding, it´s a matter of them claiming that their system is correct and not caring about the very simple calculations proving that it is not

I also hoped this thread would increase their interest in resolving the issue, but so far nothing unfortunately.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Have you tried sending a PM to Max? There is also the problem of the unresponsive rep that Max needs to know about. Having a rep that actively responds to issues is a requirement for accreditation.

Given that there is an urgent timescale involved, it's even worse that the rep isn't responding, and emails to the casino are being ignored.

Usual advice in such situations is to stop playing until the problem gets resolved, but in this case following this advice could mean they confiscate everything. However, this would look bad in terms of their accreditation, and in the past where issues have stalled past similar timescales, the casino has reinstated the funds after the PAB has run it's course where there had been mistakes on the casino side, such as not responding to the player or a technical problem coming to light where wrong information had been given to the player.

When exactly is this deadline?

 

[Googobucs]

[*]I have tried to do a PaB here but for some reason the site won´t let me (no access to the complaint form).

I think there might be an problem with this. I am going to open a new thread to report it. maybe someone else can assist with you with this issue.

 

[The Dude]

I think there might be an problem with this. I am going to open a new thread to report it. maybe someone else can assist with you with this issue.

Sorry about that. For some reason the PAB form was turned off for all but moderators and myself. It's back on again.

@LegatoPoker - please submit your complaint here:

Link Outdated / Removed

I'll also see if I can get the casino rep to respond here as well.

 

[David@10Bet]

Hi guys,

apologies for my late reply|

I've just responded to original poster's PM. There is no error in our system and the way calculations are done and therefore all information provided to him by support was correct.
The issue came from the fact that our slots welcome package was developed to push 3D slots so we put all other at 50% contribution (that was mentioned in terms) as we wanted to push 3D slots. The 2nd deposit bonus was not updated after the removal of Sheriff Gaming 3D games provider - hence the discrepancy. We had updated all other bonuses like the Monthly Reload and the rest of the Welcome Bonuses but missed the 2nd one. Also player actually inquired about which games count 100% towards RO as he had read terms and saw 3D slots were not available so it should have been easy to figure where the issue might be, i.e. wrong bonus configuration. Anyway, I am sorry it has taken me 2 days to respond to this thread but I've been OOO. Since clearly it's something we missed to do on our end we have of course cancelled the remaining rollover on the player's balance and his funds are withdrawable. We have completely changed the welcome package about a week ago to reflect the lack of 3D slots so all our welcome bonuses are now all games bonuses and all slots contribute at 100%

I hope this makes the situation clear.

All the best and enjoy the World Cup!

Michelle

 

[vinylweatherman]

Hi guys,

apologies for my late reply|

I've just responded to original poster's PM. There is no error in our system and the way calculations are done and therefore all information provided to him by support was correct.
The issue came from the fact that our slots welcome package was developed to push 3D slots so we put all other at 50% contribution (that was mentioned in terms) as we wanted to push 3D slots. The 2nd deposit bonus was not updated after the removal of Sheriff Gaming 3D games provider - hence the discrepancy. We had updated all other bonuses like the Monthly Reload and the rest of the Welcome Bonuses but missed the 2nd one. Also player actually inquired about which games count 100% towards RO as he had read terms and saw 3D slots were not available so it should have been easy to figure where the issue might be, i.e. wrong bonus configuration. Anyway, I am sorry it has taken me 2 days to respond to this thread but I've been OOO. Since clearly it's something we missed to do on our end we have of course cancelled the remaining rollover on the player's balance and his funds are withdrawable. We have completely changed the welcome package about a week ago to reflect the lack of 3D slots so all our welcome bonuses are now all games bonuses and all slots contribute at 100%

I hope this makes the situation clear.

All the best and enjoy the World Cup!

Michelle

Better late than never.

However, casinos should not overcomplicate the rules unless there is a very good reason. Directing players to play certain games rather than other equivalents that they might prefer looks suspicious in the eyes of players.

MY reaction to spotting such a term would be to walk away because if "normal" slots were only 50%, I would assume that the reason some special class of slots is 100% is because that they are "abnormal" in the sense that they are something of the order of 90% RTP, against the accepted norm of around 95% RTP. If I could find other casinos with these same "normal" slots at 100% weighting, I would go there instead.

A big stick should never be used to market a particular game, but a carrot is fine, such as 3x loyalty points for play on certain slots for a few days, or a lucky draw or other promotion for those players that play a set minimum on a given set of games.

The initial over complication in this case created one hell of a mess, which was well on it's way to becoming a PR incident. Given that all the 3D slots were pulled due to Sheriff Gaming having it's license pulled, and the owners on criminal charges, you have ALL the slots present in the casino now specified as being 50% weighted, which looks like trickery to players who expect that when a WR is quoted, it applies to slots at 100%, and perhaps weighted lower for other non slot games such as poker and Blackjack. We don't know what really went on, but in cases like this, players may feel that the Sheriff games might have been "crooked" in some way, and that by actively promoting them and setting double WR on non Sheriff slots, the operator knew that these particular slots were a worse deal for players than the others.

The other issue is why was the player bashing his head against a brick wall over this with CS until today. It was made all the worse because of the increasing panic over a looming deadline. Someone in CS should have spotted this discrepancy over 3D slots and escalated the matter so that the player could have at least received the explanation above as to why the calculations were correct, but the terms were wrong as they had not been updated to remove references to 3D slots.

 

[David@10Bet]

I agree and point taken, however we have cancelled the RO, all slots that are currently available contribute 100% towards all bonuses (except for jackpot slots which don't contribute), the whole welcome package and corresponding terms have been changed as well...

We don't have a loyalty points system so we chose to do it in a different way: offering higher bonuses on 3D slots or smaller RO. Sheriff's slots actually turned out to be with very good payout by the way so nothing rogue about them despite how they ended up going out of business...

Regarding support, they had forwarded the issue fore review to the casino team but got no reply, as you can imagine every site in the industry is swamped with World Cup so it's taken us longer than usual to get to this case. It didn't occur to them to check the bonus. Bottom-line the issue is resolved and the player has received his funds.

 

[LegatoPoker]

Resolved but with a bit of bad taste...

First of all!! A big thank you for everyone posting and taking interest in the thread, and for Casinomeister for (finally) adressing the issue!

I have withdrawn the money and I hope they will arrive to my Skrill-account soon!

I am glad that the issue was finally resolved, but it frustrates me that I wagered a lot more than required and also spent a lot of hours e-mailing back and forth as well as taking the issue here because of such a trivial issue.

It also frustrates me when Michelle claims that support and the system has been correct. They have been wrong on a long list of issues:

• TWICE it was verified that all slots counted 100% towards the bonus. I didn´t start playing before I received that confirmation since I believed a "50% on all slots rule" was totally unreasonable.
• Calculations are not correct. As shown 200 in wagers where calculated as 119. 119/200 is not 0,50 obviously.
• The wagering requirements were not correct either. They should have been EXACTLY 235 000, not 229 687.5 as claimed by support.
• When asking about an extension to the 15 days I got no reply on the matter. Even worse, on one of the requests I got the following answer: "Dear X, We can confirm that your 10Bet account has been closed. We are sorry that you decided not to take advantage of our services."... A response that obviously got me shocked!

 

[vinylweatherman]

I agree and point taken, however we have cancelled the RO, all slots that are currently available contribute 100% towards all bonuses (except for jackpot slots which don't contribute), the whole welcome package and corresponding terms have been changed as well...

We don't have a loyalty points system so we chose to do it in a different way: offering higher bonuses on 3D slots or smaller RO. Sheriff's slots actually turned out to be with very good payout by the way so nothing rogue about them despite how they ended up going out of business...

Regarding support, they had forwarded the issue fore review to the casino team but got no reply, as you can imagine every site in the industry is swamped with World Cup so it's taken us longer than usual to get to this case. It didn't occur to them to check the bonus. Bottom-line the issue is resolved and the player has received his funds.

RTP is one of those figures that has to be dragged reluctantly from casinos. Players have to take a guess, and often a short bad session will convince them that the games they played are "tight", or even "rigged". Not having a loyalty scheme is rather remiss as it's something players are used to. Broadly, a well established casino will have some form of loyalty scheme. Those without tend to be new casinos or less established ones.

Solved in this case and for this player, after considerable delay, but the idea that slots are weighted down in WR to anything less than 100% is a big red flag to many players, it looks as though the intent is to quote a misleadingly low multiplier for WR, but get the true WR by "sneakily" setting slots at much less than 100%.

Despite the good outcome, it does appear that when the OP was wagering, support were indeed using a weighting multiplier to calculate his wagering. His test pretty much proved it.

I realize and prove that only about 60% of my wagering are included in their wagering calculations.

It would seem that the calculations WERE wrong after all, as some of the wagers were not being counted 100%, hence the discrepancy between the OPs tally of bets placed and how much had been lopped off WR according to support.

Had "all slots now contributed 100%", this whole thread would not have existed.

It looks like the OP has been granted the cancellation of the rest of the WR because the casino messed up by not updating the terms, not because the calculations were messed up and the WR had in fact been completed.

If CS are still not using 100% for slots when doing the calculations, this problem will arise again.

 

[LegatoPoker]

[*]TWICE it was verified that all slots counted 100% towards the bonus. I didn´t start playing before I received that confirmation since I believed a "50% on all slots rule" was totally unreasonable.

Dear X,

This is to inform you that all Slots games count 100% towards the roll-over since the 3D Slots are not available.

We wish you good luck playing.

Kind Regards,

Elena S.

10Bet Customer Service Team

 

[David@10Bet]

Hi again,

as explained the issue arose from the bonus configuration - support have merely copy pasted you the left to roll amount they saw in the system which is calculated according to how the bonus is configured hence no error IN the system. The only error was in bonus configuration which is a human error.

The fact that support emailed you about account closure is a stupid mistake, clearly they meant to close another player's account who had actually requested it and they've mixed up the windows.

Anyway, you should have your withdrawal processed over the weekend and if you have any further concerns you can always PM me here.

Michelle

First of all!! A big thank you for everyone posting and taking interest in the thread, and for Casinomeister for (finally) adressing the issue!

I have withdrawn the money and I hope they will arrive to my Skrill-account soon!

I am glad that the issue was finally resolved, but it frustrates me that I wagered a lot more than required and also spent a lot of hours e-mailing back and forth as well as taking the issue here because of such a trivial issue.

It also frustrates me when Michelle claims that support and the system has been correct. They have been wrong on a long list of issues:

• TWICE it was verified that all slots counted 100% towards the bonus. I didn´t start playing before I received that confirmation since I believed a "50% on all slots rule" was totally unreasonable.
• Calculations are not correct. As shown 200 in wagers where calculated as 119. 119/200 is not 0,50 obviously.
• The wagering requirements were not correct either. They should have been EXACTLY 235 000, not 229 687.5 as claimed by support.
• When asking about an extension to the 15 days I got no reply on the matter. Even worse, on one of the requests I got the following answer: "Dear X, We can confirm that your 10Bet account has been closed. We are sorry that you decided not to take advantage of our services."... A response that obviously got me shocked!

 

[LegatoPoker]

Hi again,

as explained the issue arose from the bonus configuration - support have merely copy pasted you the left to roll amount they saw in the system which is calculated according to how the bonus is configured hence no error IN the system. The only error was in bonus configuration which is a human error.

Michelle

I am not going to fight over this, but like I wrote with two separate numbers there is an error IN the system. Unless you get this fixed you vill obviously face other frustrated players in the future.

The 200 bet was not counted as 100, but 119. The WR was not counted as 235000 but as 229687. Both figures show that you have a problem with your system.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Hi again,

as explained the issue arose from the bonus configuration - support have merely copy pasted you the left to roll amount they saw in the system which is calculated according to how the bonus is configured hence no error IN the system. The only error was in bonus configuration which is a human error.

The fact that support emailed you about account closure is a stupid mistake, clearly they meant to close another player's account who had actually requested it and they've mixed up the windows.

Anyway, you should have your withdrawal processed over the weekend and if you have any further concerns you can always PM me here.

Michelle

As far as the player is concerned "the system" is everything. If it gets it wrong because someone fed it the wrong data to start with, it's still "the system" that got it wrong. Having CS and the rep claim "there is nothing wrong with the calculations" is just piling it on. It was the "change control system" that initially wrong, a change was made because the 3D slots were removed, and it was screwed up.

Now we have this admission:-

The fact that support emailed you about account closure is a stupid mistake, clearly they meant to close another player's account who had actually requested it and they've mixed up the windows.

Well "clearly" the data processing procedures are not meeting the requirements set down by the UK's ICO. It is "the system" that should have something in place to prevent human error resulting in controlled data being disclosed to a third party this easily. Is this the kind of careless procedure that often leads to CS "losing" the documents that players send in for KYC at a variety of casinos?

Isn't this business of having to email CS so that they can "look in the system" to cut and paste a number a bit daft. Why can't PLAYERS just look up this running tally from somewhere when logged in, it's already in the right kind of format for players to view. It would also lighten the load on CS, and they might make fewer mistakes.

 

[catapultaudio]

Can we be sure these errors aren't simply down to currency conversion somewhere along the line? The total calculated WR figure is in the customers favour, as is 119 rather than 100 being counted towards wagering(albeit, when everything is correct it should be 200, but in the previous configuration the player was being given additional credit therefore if the 'problem' still exists in the current setup, it will be to the customers advantage). I do agree it is still unacceptable but I feel like the rep is getting a real grilling here despite doing all she can to help the OP.

If the bonus configuration has been updated for the 2nd deposit bonus, the issue should not re-occur, so perhaps a small goodwill gesture to the OP would give some confidence the casino has accepted their mistake here and are motivated not to see it happen again. I think the rep has done a good job though and if it was me receiving the money I'd be most grateful

 

[vinylweatherman]

Can we be sure these errors aren't simply down to currency conversion somewhere along the line? The total calculated WR figure is in the customers favour, as is 119 rather than 100 being counted towards wagering(albeit, when everything is correct it should be 200, but in the previous configuration the player was being given additional credit therefore if the 'problem' still exists in the current setup, it will be to the customers advantage). I do agree it is still unacceptable but I feel like the rep is getting a real grilling here despite doing all she can to help the OP.

If the bonus configuration has been updated for the 2nd deposit bonus, the issue should not re-occur, so perhaps a small goodwill gesture to the OP would give some confidence the casino has accepted their mistake here and are motivated not to see it happen again. I think the rep has done a good job though and if it was me receiving the money I'd be most grateful

The rep is getting a grilling for being in denial, and refusing to accept that bad maths is not "an error in the calculations". It's like me getting my tax return wrong, and trying to claim it's not an error in my calculations, but down to me pressing the wrong buttons on the calculator. As far as the taxman is concerned, this is STILL "an error in my calculations".

Whilst this particular error shouldn't happen again, being in denial about where the responsibility lies regarding such matters does not bode well for other things that should be right being right.

We now have this curiosity of 60% having counted towards the wagering requirement on games that were set to 50% weighting by the system. Currency conversion should not be a part of this since we are talking about calculations that are applied to "credits" in a casino account, rather than a specific currency. 50% of 1000 is still 500, whether it's Euros, Rand, Rouble, etc. It would seem that the calculations themselves ARE wrong after all, but this time to the advantage of the player.

 

[catapultaudio]

Agreed VWM I did raise my eyebrows a bit when I read 'there is no error in the system' - clearly there is - and it is the customer service agents mistake that they did not investigate what the player was trying to explain, instead insisting that the figures they could see on the screen must be correct even though it should have been obvious to them that something was amiss.

At the same time though I can understand the point that the system was making the calculations correctly according to the bonus configuration that was active at the time so it is true to state that the problem lies in the bonus configuration and not with the procedure that calculates remaining wagering.

As long as that bonus configuration has been fixed and the player treated correctly though I think the rep has done a good job and deserves credit for that.

Perhaps another player will be able to investigate the wagering requirement calculation at some stage, though I still suspect that if I were to try it myself the calculations might well be accurate, your right that fifty percent of 1000 is always the same of course, but a computer system will almost always work in one currency then use conversion ratios to achieve the multi-currency support, and its entirely possible different parts of the system (eg, the games, the bonus manager) have a different base currency. If the system has been designed to always round these figures up such that the player will never be left out of pocket, I think thats an acceptable solution, dont you?

 

[vinylweatherman]

Agreed VWM I did raise my eyebrows a bit when I read 'there is no error in the system' - clearly there is - and it is the customer service agents mistake that they did not investigate what the player was trying to explain, instead insisting that the figures they could see on the screen must be correct even though it should have been obvious to them that something was amiss.

At the same time though I can understand the point that the system was making the calculations correctly according to the bonus configuration that was active at the time so it is true to state that the problem lies in the bonus configuration and not with the procedure that calculates remaining wagering.

As long as that bonus configuration has been fixed and the player treated correctly though I think the rep has done a good job and deserves credit for that.

Perhaps another player will be able to investigate the wagering requirement calculation at some stage, though I still suspect that if I were to try it myself the calculations might well be accurate, your right that fifty percent of 1000 is always the same of course, but a computer system will almost always work in one currency then use conversion ratios to achieve the multi-currency support, and its entirely possible different parts of the system (eg, the games, the bonus manager) have a different base currency. If the system has been designed to always round these figures up such that the player will never be left out of pocket, I think thats an acceptable solution, dont you?

The simplest currency to work in for such calculations would be "casino credits". Currency only needs to be considered when processing deposits and withdrawals, multi player situations (progressives, poker, multi player community games, etc), and perhaps when setting maxima for bonuses such that regardless of currency, all players are offered something equivalent.

Once allocated to a players' account, it's just a number of credits, and a multiplier for wagering. No need to involve currency at all. If anything, trying to cater for different currencies at this stage makes things more complicated. It should then be a simple matter that every 100 credits wagered knocks 100 credits off the remaining WR, not 119 or other odd figure.

As this was a configuration error that has been around since Sheriff games were withdrawn, there must be many players who have been negatively impacted by this, some of whom wagered more than they needed to because they didn't question the figures given to them by CS.

It was probably not obvious to CS as all they had to do was cut and paste a number from their screens, use of brain not necessary, and if players questioned the accuracy, it was again the "the calculations are accurate" rebuff. Only doing an experiment like the OP would have given the data to prove that there was not a 1:1 equivalence between the amount wagered and the reduction in the requirement. Maybe if players' doubts were properly investigated, rather than being dismissed, this could have been discovered earlier by comparing their actual wagers from the player records with the tally in the bonus system. Hiding the figures behind CS agents, rather than letting players check for themselves, makes it harder for players to gather their own data when they have such doubts about the accuracy. Taking 10 observations would mean badgering CS 10 times in that one session, but it is how one would check that a selection of games were being counted correctly.

 

[klauskunterbunt]

I hat the same Problem with them, deposited 64 Euro and took a 125% Bonus. Played about 3 or 4 hours,
lost and won, and made no Spin under 3 Euro. Most Spins about 4. I was up to more than 600 Euro, cause i lost win, lost win, and so on.
I asked where i can see my wagering Details, at this time i wagered much more than 3000 Euro, in my Opinion.It is really tricky from them that you have
no control e.g the possibility to look on your own. I think this is a really bad behaviour for an accredited Casino.
The answer was that i had to go through another 3750 Euro. I said thanks a lot for the Info and lost the Rest.
I didn't wanted to rant about cause in the T&C they write clearly that you have to ask support for wagering , and i didn't read this clause
and i was not able to verify how much it really was.
But if i read this threat, i am not the only one who was wondering about the wagering @ 10 Bet.
Forgot to say that i only played Microgaming Slots.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I hat the same Problem with them, deposited 64 Euro and took a 125% Bonus. Played about 3 or 4 hours,
lost and won, and made no Spin under 3 Euro. Most Spins about 4. I was up to more than 600 Euro, cause i lost win, lost win, and so on.
I asked where i can see my wagering Details, at this time i wagered much more than 3000 Euro, in my Opinion.It is really tricky from them that you have
no control e.g the possibility to look on your own. I think this is a really bad behaviour for an accredited Casino.
The answer was that i had to go through another 3750 Euro. I said thanks a lot for the Info and lost the Rest.
I didn't wanted to rant about cause in the T&C they write clearly that you have to ask support for wagering , and i didn't read this clause
and i was not able to verify how much it really was.
But if i read this threat, i am not the only one who was wondering about the wagering @ 10 Bet.
Forgot to say that i only played Microgaming Slots.

If you were also a victim of the misconfiguration, then they would have been counting 50%, not 100% as they should. Unless you can get the remaining figure from CS, wager a known amount, and then get an updated figure from CS, you cannot tell whether the tracking is working properly. This is why it's such a bad system, it tends to obscure such errors from being easily spotted by players. You just "feel" that you have wagered more than the figures from CS say you have, but can't demonstrate that this is down to incorrect tracking.

 

[LegatoPoker]

I do agree it is still unacceptable but I feel like the rep is getting a real grilling here despite doing all she can to help the OP.

While I am very happy it seems that this is being resolved and I am thankful for the ppl involved for this, I can´t agree that the rep is "doing all she can do".

• How long has this gone on? How many have wagered way too much "trusting" the figures they got e-mailed?
• She is still saying the system is fine. Obviously it is not. While you are right that it seems it will do calculations in the players favour, we really don´t know... There´s an error, as long as it is not solved we can´t be sure how it will affect other players.
• She is still saying the CS-reps did nothing wrong. They did on numerous occasions and different severity.
• While I will hopefully get paid, I also wagered approx 100.000 more than I had to and lost money in the process. I also spent hours in frustration e-mailing with support.