Your Input Please Would you like a single "Slots are rigged???" thread?

[neon claws]

For awhile it's fun to engage or entertain the notion and be amused by the exact same half-assed thread popping up twice a week- but then it just kinda gets irritating- most of us can't be bothered replying to them anymore since they're more or less an echo chamber for like-minded individuals that only want to hear their own opinions reinforced.

And so; would you prefer every time a new "Are slots REALLY random?" thread comes up it just gets moved into a "Slots ... Rigged???" megathread?

 

[interlog]

Well as all slots are rigged, I think it deserves full exposure so the more topics the better, preferably at the rate of at least once a day.

It is also important, in my opinion, to continue playing slots whilst you are confident that they are rigged. Nothing better than throwing good money after bad after all.

In the meantime, the likes of @trancemonkey should be banned from participating in this kind of topic.

 

[thr0b]

How about a "tinfoil hat" sticky FAQ?

Q: I played [reputable game] by [reputable provider] at [reputable casino] - I deposited £50,000 and only saw one bonus. Is the game rigged?
A: No, you're just an idiot with more money than sense.

That would cover most of the tinfoil hat FAQ, I think.

 

[paul7388]

Great idea.

Let us merge all the rigged slots threads together.

Then we could get the first ever 100,000 page thread on CM.

 

[geordiecolin]

Yeah. Lets rig all of the rigged threads

 

[Casinomeister]

Nay - it would be crap for SEO. No one searches for "rigged slots". They would search for "BTG rigged slots" instead. Or whatever is being rigged now.

 

[Jono777]

Surely its already done

A simple Google search of "rigged" brings me straight to the CM forum main page

 

[mack341]

In the future if most slots are lowered to 92-94% rtp might it be harder to claim they have been surreptitiously rigged, so the number of such threads may naturally decrease? ??️‍?‍

 

[Slotplayer83]

In the future if most slots are lowered to 92-94% rtp might it be harder to claim they have been surreptitiously rigged, so the number of such threads may naturally decrease? ??️‍?‍

Really i get more value, action, food and free drinks and most of the times, walk away with profit in landbased then online.

Online has just gotten worse really. Woud'nt say rigged but it's pretty much designed that way and there's not one single casino reaching out explaining why things has gone shit other then "the provider" bullshit story.

No it's not the provider. The casino selects the game and thus the game version. They also select how much of a volatility the game can have and pretty much affects the outcome of play.

I mean one of the casino's i play at, has DOA2 listed with a max bet cap of 1.80 a spin. Honestly i understand since the 100.000x or even beyond potential. The original DOA2 has a bet limit of 7,20 a spin, where the max potential (at testing if i'm correct) was around 4100x. That number is obviously quite lower. Ive bashed on max bet week in week out on DOA1 and it just wont hit.

Makes all sense since casino's can set the RTP and preffered volatility of choice, making it far more fruity at lower bets (i.e 72 cents) compared to the 7,20 bet a spin. All the games they offer, there's just something fishy about it. They dont want you to win 'big'. they deny any of this when pointing out, hiding behind their provider.

It was quite a long time when i walked away with 20k online at this place in particular. There's always this cold streak followed with a winning streak, but any of the winning streak nowadays is no more then a few of your deposits followed with a rollercoaster down below faster then you can take a shit. And trust me ive tried everything within my play approach.

In my understanding, most of the games are getting more and more to the point that they are just designed to lure, suck you in, suck you dry, and spit you out kind of approach. I went through that thread here on these forums a guy losing 14k in one day. A casino's and providers delight, but a players nightmare. How can this even be responsible to this point. Games being approved by licensing provider where such endless of losing is even allowed.

In landbased i know at some point ill get at least 50 to 90% of my initial return "back" at some point.

 

[neon claws]

Really i get more value, action, food and free drinks and most of the times, walk away with profit in landbased then online.

Online has just gotten worse really. Woud'nt say rigged but it's pretty much designed that way and there's not one single casino reaching out explaining why things has gone shit other then "the provider" bullshit story.

No it's not the provider. The casino selects the game and thus the game version. They also select how much of a volatility the game can have and pretty much affects the outcome of play.

I mean one of the casino's i play at, has DOA2 listed with a max bet cap of 1.80 a spin. Honestly i understand since the 100.000x or even beyond potential. The original DOA2 has a bet limit of 7,20 a spin, where the max potential (at testing if i'm correct) was around 4100x. That number is obviously quite lower. Ive bashed on max bet week in week out on DOA1 and it just wont hit.

Makes all sense since casino's can set the RTP and preffered volatility of choice, making it far more fruity at lower bets (i.e 72 cents) compared to the 7,20 bet a spin. All the games they offer, there's just something fishy about it. They dont want you to win 'big'. they deny any of this when pointing out, hiding behind their provider.

It was quite a long time when i walked away with 20k online at this place in particular. There's always this cold streak followed with a winning streak, but any of the winning streak nowadays is no more then a few of your deposits followed with a rollercoaster down below faster then you can take a shit. And trust me ive tried everything within my play approach.

In my understanding, most of the games are getting more and more to the point that they are just designed to lure, suck you in, suck you dry, and spit you out kind of approach. I went through that thread here on these forums a guy losing 14k in one day. A casino's and providers delight, but a players nightmare. How can this even be responsible to this point. Games being approved by licensing provider where such endless of losing is even allowed.

In landbased i know at some point ill get at least 50 to 90% of my initial return "back" at some point.

It's coming from inside the thread!

 

[Kroffe]

Ive seen no threads with evidence showing that slots are rigged.
Also not seen any threads with evidence showing they are not rigged.

If you think about it, the arguments are very similar.
Its always 'im in, or has been in the business so i know its rigged/not rigged)
But all the evidence they provide is always just 'trust me', from both sides.

And when you think about it that way, what side has a financial incentive to lie.

So until i see convincing evidence from either side im playing Schrödingers slots, that exist as rigged and not-rigged at the same time.
Except Dead or alive and Whos the bride, they are cool, ive checked them myself.

 

[neon claws]

Ive seen no threads with evidence showing that slots are rigged.
Also not seen any threads with evidence showing they are not rigged.

If you think about it, the arguments are very similar.
Its always 'im in, or has been in the business so i know its rigged/not rigged)
But all the evidence they provide is always just 'trust me', from both sides.

And when you think about it that way, what side has a financial incentive to lie.

So until i see convincing evidence from either side im playing Schrödingers slots, that exist as rigged and not-rigged at the same time.
Except Dead or alive and Whos the bride, they are cool, ive checked them myself.

The onus of proof is on the accuser. If someone wanted to they could very easily gather statistical data to back up their claims.

The people who make the slots do get them tested and certified, but if you show this data to someone who is convinced they're rigged they'll just say that the certifiers are in on it, everyone's in on it.

I myself, even knowing full well about confirmation bias, probability and statistics have at time thought there was something in particular rigged about many slots, so you know what I did? I took some stats and very quickly saw that my theory was incorrect.

The thing is, people don't want to know they're incorrect, they want to keep believing they're right and it's not their fault they keep losing.

 

[colinsunderland]

The onus of proof is on the accuser. If someone wanted to they could very easily gather statistical data to back up their claims.

The people who make the slots do get them tested and certified, but if you show this data to someone who is convinced they're rigged they'll just say that the certifiers are in on it, everyone's in on it.

I myself, even knowing full well about confirmation bias, probability and statistics have at time thought there was something in particular rigged about many slots, so you know what I did? I took some stats and very quickly saw that my theory was incorrect.

The thing is, people don't want to know they're incorrect, they want to keep believing they're right and it's not their fault they keep losing.

You have to ask how well does the testing work though?
BTG did billions of spins on the Wild Flower. The testing house presumably did the same. Not one noticed that sometimes when it was triggering the enhanced feature it wasn't actually giving the enhanced feature. Hours after it was released it was noticed, and pulled not long after.
How did BTG and the testing facility miss a bug as big as that if the game is tested correctly by them both?

 

[neon claws]

You have to ask how well does the testing work though?
BTG did billions of spins on the Wild Flower. The testing house presumably did the same. Not one noticed that sometimes when it was triggering the enhanced feature it wasn't actually giving the enhanced feature. Hours after it was released it was noticed, and pulled not long after.
How did BTG and the testing facility miss a bug as big as that if the game is tested correctly by them both?

The billions of spins part of testing is to (not perfectly) calculate tRTP. That should've been picked up in regular play testing. All software has errors, I'd never argue against slots having bugs. But I doubt very much that was done intentionally, eg; rigged- because as you say: it was picked up in hours.
So why has no one ever picked up an actual rigged slot?

 

[mack341]

also netent's streetfighter, though you could say that was 'rigged' in a good way!

I think some games could change their reel strip mid session to one where the rtp is distributed in such a way the game plays almost totally dead for many spins and therefore feels rigged, but a long test would still say it met rtp.

 

[colinsunderland]

The billions of spins part of testing is to (not perfectly) calculate tRTP. That should've been picked up in regular play testing. All software has errors, I'd never argue against slots having bugs. But I doubt very much that was done intentionally, eg; rigged- because as you say: it was picked up in hours.
So why has no one ever picked up an actual rigged slot?

I'm not saying they are rigged, was just pointing out as you mentioned testing and certification, that that process doesn't catch bugs like that. It also doesn't stop them changing the game after testing, as Pragmatic Play/TopGame did when they removed a scatter to prevent people winning. Now that was rigged, and there is evidence of it, so it can happen.

 

[neon claws]

Wait what am I doing.. how did I manage to turn my own thread into the very thing I was trying to prevent?
I'm not going to argue it anymore, it's kind of like trying to debate politics- people just will not change their opinions.

 

[colinsunderland]

Wait what am I doing.. how did I manage to turn my own thread into the very thing I was trying to prevent?
I'm not going to argue it anymore, it's kind of like trying to debate politics- people just will not change their opinions.

What I said wasn't an opinion. They removed a symbol when the game was live, to prevent people from winning. Thats a fact and that is proof of a rigged slot.
Do I think slots are rigged? No.
Do I know it is possible to do? Yes.
You asked why has no one ever picked up a rigged slot. They have, and once you're proven wrong, you refuse to discuss it anymore?
You're right, some people, even when given evidence, will not change their opinion.

 

[neon claws]

What I said wasn't an opinion. They removed a symbol when the game was live, to prevent people from winning. Thats a fact and that is proof of a rigged slot.
Do I think slots are rigged? No.
Do I know it is possible to do? Yes.
You asked why has no one ever picked up a rigged slot. They have, and once you're proven wrong, you refuse to discuss it anymore?
You're right, some people, even when given evidence, will not change their opinion.

Can you link to a description of what occurred?
I think firstly you need to define what rigged means, obviously they're all rigged in that you will lose eventually, some are rigged in that they display or allude to wins that aren't possible, but I think the most persistent type of accusation is that they have a kill switch, or that they choose who to proportion their RTP to.
I knew it was silly of me to say there's not been proof of a rigged slot because there likely has been a few, but I just lack the energy to continue debating it anymore.

 

[Slotplayer83]

Ok, here goes my input. A "Winning streak" - not just on one slot, pretty much anything in the casino you play or touch. And the next week have the opposite, a losing streak on everything you play or touch.

All dependend of your deposit behaviour. You deposit much you get lots of action. You deposit less, less action.

 

[Kroffe]

Trance said that you can have different volatility on different stakes, shuffling around rtp between basegame and bonus and wahatnot.
And as long as the rtp is the same, you dont need to mention it.
So someone sees my kickass results on Doa/Wtb done with 9p spins, and goes to replicate it with his €9 spins, but oh no, Netent has set spins on €9 to returns exactly 96.81% with every spins, making it impossible to win.

An example of how things can be rigged, in a legal way.
Of course it wouldnt be that blatant, but you could make the feature 10x harder to hit on high stakes, as long as the total rtp is the same, you dont need to mention it in helpfile.
So it can be basically a totally different game volatility/pay-wise for each different stake if you want.
Of course someone playing a Doa thats 10x as hard to bonus would not ever be able to prove it, but he would see it.

And when that guy comes to CM and says game X is shit, feature is impossible to hit, he gets told 'its random' and that hes just a sore loser.


Random.

 

[Slotplayer83]

I did had a 9 euro bonus one day. I was stupid enough to click the train heist feature thinking to get worth for my money. Fact was the outcome was 220x or so while i still believe i was better off selecting the middle or right feature. However we're not sure about that, how the outcome would be any different when selecting one of the provided bonus games.

I play lots of DOA2. For some reason i coud'nt hit a wildline (at all) while it always where near wild-line hits at least booting me up to 10k by just repeatedly dropping premium symbols making a x2 / x3 line and so on. Games that kind of make you sit on the edge of your chair.

 

[colinsunderland]

Can you link to a description of what occurred?
I think firstly you need to define what rigged means, obviously they're all rigged in that you will lose eventually, some are rigged in that they display or allude to wins that aren't possible, but I think the most persistent type of accusation is that they have a kill switch, or that they choose who to proportion their RTP to.
I knew it was silly of me to say there's not been proof of a rigged slot because there likely has been a few, but I just lack the energy to continue debating it anymore.

Cant link due to the fact they are affiliate sites but google 'pragmatic Play topgame' and have a look at the sites ending in rakeback and casinolistings, also this thread on here about the jackpots Top Game Missing Jackpot Questions - Page 3 - Casinomeister Forum

Rigged to me means that they do something to stop them paying out. Removing symbols would fit that definition.
A snippit from one of the sites

Back in 2009, flagship

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running several "buggy" slots that did not include wild symbols on the first and/or fifth reels in games such as Diablo 13, Wild Sevens, and Dougies Delights. This made it impossible for players to win the major jackpot on each game as they required a payline of five wilds to win. It also significantly lowered the payout rates of the games when you consider all the other winning combinations that would no longer be completed by the missing wild symbols.

TopGame claimed that it was merely a "bug" caused by the propagation of testing configurations into live games. To its credit it made restitution to affected players. However the wider community was left to wonder how on earth such a "bug" could possibly get into a production gaming system. There is no plausible reason that could explain why they would be testing their games with such a configuration. Even if you take that ridiculous explanation at face value, the fact that such a so-called "bug" was allowed to go live demonstrates a failure in the company's testing processes, not to mention an extreme lack of professionalism.

 

[Slotplayer83]

"Financial Liability". Casino's dont want their players to win too much.

 

[TheAddict]

Hmm this playing on different stakes having different distribution of the rtp does make me wonder.
I chased the 5000x on 1p on BoD, definitely done well over 1 million spins over a few months before it hit, perhaps closer to 2 mill since you could power bash the button at warp speed. The game never took away more than £25/£30 before throwing in one type of 5oak of the picture symbols during those spins on 1p.
I'm confident I've done no more than 150,000 spins on 2p, so maybe ten times less spins than on 1p, yet im currently £100 down this week on 2p with the biggest win of 260x, since i last hit any 5oak of the pic symbols (or 4 explorers).

It's like it can read my mind, that I probably won't leave the game if I hit 750x for 5oak on 1p so it doesn't mind dropping those 5oak in, but it seems to know if im on 2p i will be switching off and heading down the pub to spend those insane profits if it was to do it.