William Hill casinos lowering RTP

[justdoit]

@justdoit all games or just that one? Which one is it?

not all, mix 90% RTP and 94% RTP
Pic from Big Bass on 90% RTP

 

[Siohmy]

Piss taking a-holes. Sure does make it so easy to not play on their site. Already stopped sport betting with them as their odds have gone down the proverbial crapper. And the best thing is I really don't care.

 

[dealer wins]

AT this rate by by 2030 William Hill will have negative RTPs. At -10% you will be expected to lose £110 for every £100 you play lol

 

[TheAddict]

Piss taking a-holes. Sure does make it so easy to not play on their site. Already stopped sport betting with them as their odds have gone down the proverbial crapper. And the best thing is I really don't care.

My foots been fooked for months so I've gone from only beting sports 6 hours a day to 12 instead, and I haven't bothered to compare ods with william hill in a long damn time. footy odds are really bad 90% of the time. I think the past four out of five or so "double your odds on xx jockey to win 2 races today, max bet £5" havn't even offered better than what the 2 other bookies i use were offering as standard and unpromoted.


As for the mixed 90's and 94's o the bass, makes perfec sense for filthy scumbags to do that. Even less chance your average mug is going to notice if they play all the bass games there, afer losing an absolue fortune, they'll just come to like certain ones a bit more than the ones that never pay out.

*Deep sigh.

*edit. fixed some. tablet fked. Sincere apologies for any spelling errors I couldn't b assed to find.

 

[justdoit]

Haven't been playing there for a while, but i remember that Grosvenor was a good casino. See my post from 2020 below. I still got that bear somewhere, but the box is safe and sound

View attachment 194939

I play on Grosvenor is not bad casino, they dont have lot of games but they ok

 

[TheAddict]

Hope people were getting on my 1 line/1p + strike gold random £1 win method on Berry Berry Bonanza. Prob managed a tenner before others got on it. Teach me for boasting I suppose. No 1 line option available there now.

 

[slot_zombie]

Hope people were getting on my 1 line/1p + strike gold random £1 win method on Berry Berry Bonanza. Prob managed a tenner before others got on it. Teach me for boasting I suppose. No 1 line option available there now.

Damn. Missed the boat on that one ?

 

[SlotGrinder]

You have to pick your slots on William Hill. They have some elk and other providers who have 95% rtp. Have to check otherwise you will end up on some 90% rtp scam slot
Saying that, they were giving me on average 5fs on some random slot plus 5fs from bonus drop and often another 5fs from sports section every day and this was when I was not even depositing at all...
So they have been pretty generous in that regard. Often get free £1 bets and sometime free £1 cash
Their promo strategy doesnt make a lot of sense tbh

 

[TheAddict]

Makes ya laugh.
"here's 1 quid free cash"
"here's 10, sometimes 15 free spins per day, daily"
"HOLY SHIT, UBER MEGA EPIC PROMO COMING UP THIS WEEKEND! , STARTING WITH AN EPIC!! FREE BET, EPIC!!. £1 Free be to use on any sport! EPIC EPIC EPIC BRUV!!

 

[jasonuk]

Just don't ask them about the RTPs... surprisingly Rainbow Riches Locomotion at 90.20% (could they not find the 88% model?) and Premium Play has an RTP boost of -0.12% (90.08%)

Hope people were getting on my 1 line/1p + strike gold random £1 win method on Berry Berry Bonanza. Prob managed a tenner before others got on it. Teach me for boasting I suppose. No 1 line option available there now.

Wonder if they'll take the new BTG slot... a penny a spin might be the only way to play it

 

[kennygamerboy]

I just won 500x on 1 quid on will hill wwtbam and I've withdrew and ran. Haven't withdrawn on will hill for a year so bad for me on there they only got 5 quid I hit bonus 60p and then raised to a quid

 

[TheAddict]

naughty boy @kennygamerboy
That'll be a downgrade to 3 spins (soon to be 0) on some absolute shitter from the bonus drop as a penalty.

 

[thr0b]

They’re just giving out a single 10p go on some scratch card game from 2007 on the bonus drop at the moment.

I assume the £500 withdrawal has scared them.

 

[spoo42]

Ive noticed on WH the last 2 weeks that nearly all free spins offers have all but gone for me - but for 5fs on a friday (today and last week). Upto that point id always get the alternating 5fs on the home page every 2-3 days, and on the vegas page, and also bonus drop (that rarely gave me anything until recent months but sometimes would). Even thats not given me anything now for a couple weeks!

Still get free bets, and the tuesday/friday quiz, otherwise they seem to have culled most fs offers. (for me at least)

 

[jasonuk]

and the tuesday/friday quiz

If it's the one I am thinking of, that'll be Playtech Live rather than WH.

 

[Guntis]

Could it be that WH cut free spins and good RTPs because bots were eating the site down?, lol

Source:

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[thr0b]

Ive noticed on WH the last 2 weeks that nearly all free spins offers have all but gone for me - but for 5fs on a friday (today and last week). Upto that point id always get the alternating 5fs on the home page every 2-3 days, and on the vegas page, and also bonus drop (that rarely gave me anything until recent months but sometimes would). Even thats not given me anything now for a couple weeks!

Still get free bets, and the tuesday/friday quiz, otherwise they seem to have culled most fs offers. (for me at least)

Same here. A shame, but ok the flip side, it was a lot more FS promos than any other site ever offers.

 

[TheAddict]

Assume it's not just me that has won a grand total of 30p over the past 2 months on Sky V's prize machine too, lol. Dunno why they'd bother keeping it running if that's the case for everyone else too, only purpose it serves now is to make you laugh everyime it loses.

 

[spoo42]

Sky's prize machine is mostly rubbish lol I think what, last couple years even if you can get it to say win it's usually 10p or 1 spin if your lucky. The bonus thing can be a little better but it's mostly 3 or 5 spins and your game choices aren't great.

I don't really understand multiple bonus games either with options and spinning wheels and whatnot when it gives pretty much the same thing every time ! 3 or 5 spins.

 

[jasonuk]

It's not just RTPs they're changing now...

...
In the next few weeks, we’re changing the way that we calculate Deposit Limits. This change will make it easier for our customers to stay in control.

What does it mean for you?

Currently, Deposit Limits allow you to set a fixed amount (say, £100 a month) that you can deposit into your account. This is called a Gross Deposit Limit.

This will change, allowing you to deposit the set amount plus anything you have withdrawn. This is a Net Deposit Limit, and this is how we’ll manage all of our customers’ Deposit Limits going forward.
...

So the WH "Safer Gambling Team" who signed the email, are confirming that all customers will be less safe by this change but will "make it easier for our customers to stay in control" ? .

While I personally prefer net limits, I understand a lot of people prefer the certainty of gross limits - this isn't going to be an either/or choice, it was Gross Deposit Limit (deposits only) and now will be Net Deposit Limit (deposits minus withdrawals).

It makes their "small changes" when doubling the house edge look vaguely honest... ?

 

[thr0b]

Yeah, lots of operators are switching to net limits. Feels like the next scandal waiting to happen.

I prefer gross limits, and a change like that should be opt in, not default.

 

[jasonuk]

With the incoming UKGC rules, operators that don't offer net limits will essentially have to - but that doesn't stop operators from offering gross limits as well.

The thing that makes my blood boil is they are suggesting it will help customers - when it will do the opposite. Net limits are always equal to or greater than Gross limits, and thus require more self control.

There are sites out there that offer both - and that would be the ideal. If they want to keep it simplified, have two questions - what do you want your deposit limit to be, do you want withdrawals to replenish (or increase) the deposit limit (i.e. net vs gross). Plain language and easy to understand for all.

 

[thr0b]

Aye. I can’t see how a net limit fits the idea of a responsible limit. It’d be perfectly feasible to deposit £10, win £10k, withdraw and immediately deposit that £10k.

I mean, not at William Hill with their 90% RTP slots.

 

[Guntis]

If i had to choose i would take a pre-set net amount regardless of winnings.

But Wiliy's new rules say that for the sake of my safety, now i'm allowed to deposit my set amount along with any winnings from my allowed limit. Lol.

It sounds like this rule has been put together by that dodgy man in charge of WH, 888, etc., or someone who loves crack...

One thing i don't understand is why Willy doesn't put all slots on max RTPs and provide worthy offerings to their players. They could easily get it done.

This casino needs no promotion from anyone. All UK players just naturally know it. And in the long run, thanks to their loyal player base, they would still be in massive profit.

I reckon that in the UK, it would be enough to have just five or so well-known bookie casinos that provide maximum value to their customers, and that's it. This casino could be one of them. And nobody would need crypto casinos or anything else.

 

[jasonuk]

It sounds like this rule has been put together by that dodgy man in charge of WH, 888, etc., or someone who loves crack...

It would certainly explain UKGC decisions in the past few years - because they're not rational!

 

[Guntis]

It would certainly explain UKGC decisions in the past few years - because they're not rational!

Hah, to me the logic behind that rule is to allow players to deposit more so they can potentially leave everything in there. Otherwise, if you win from your £100 deposit limit say 1k the casino won't be able to get this money back because your limit won't allow more deposits.

But see what AI says lol...

 

[jasonuk]

So the WH "Safer Gambling Team" who signed the email, are confirming that all customers will be less safe by this change but will "make it easier for our customers to stay in control" ? .

This has started rolling out in recent days - they're still standing by the ? tagline of "We're making it easier for you to stay in control". While they are at least explaining how it works to customers - they reassure customers that "no action [is] needed from your end."

Naturally, no mention of customers being allowed to set gross deposit limits (and looking through the help, it doesn't appear to be an option for those that want it) - even though that feature is still available to non-UK customers...

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

Fuck you hills!!!!

 

[mack341]

They'll want to convene an urgent board meeting if they see that result ?

 

[justdoit]

only use WH for bets not playing slots

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

They'll want to convene an urgent board meeting if they see that result ?

Yes I was rather surprised!! Good old prize drop!!

 

[thr0b]

Looks like I’ve had too many withdrawals from their freebies - even at 91% - they’ve just blocked me from promotions. Arf.

No loss, Bill Hill.

 

[kennygamerboy]

Looks like I’ve had too many withdrawals from their freebies - even at 91% - they’ve just blocked me from promotions. Arf.

No loss, Bill Hill.

I just been blocked too! Just got the email! It's funny tho I won £600 quid yesterday and withdrew straight away then boom just got a email about a hour ago banning me from promos.

 

[thr0b]

Closed my account with them in the end. If they’re going to offer the majority of their games at 94% (and many are less than that), and no incentives, well, I’m not incentivised so someone else can have my money.

 

[jasonuk]

Closed my account with them in the end. If they’re going to offer the majority of their games at 94% (and many are less than that), and no incentives, well, I’m not incentivised so someone else can have my money.

I expect the majority are 92% at this point - they've been aggressively culling 95-97% games in the past year (there are still a few), and some are down to 90% or 88% already.

Also looks like they're starting to take a sledgehammer to other promotions too along with the promo bans mentioned above - those 5fs every couple of days have already been replaced, the casino ones are now 5fs when you spend £5 (in recent weeks), and the sports ones are a single 10fs spanning 10 days (as of this week).

On the plus side, you can still take advantage of their "top price guarantee" - the guarantee that cherry picks which competitors are included, excludes any boosts and special offers, and they - to quote - "won't match prices exceeding exchange lay".

So the only thing they seem to be guaranteeing is that their customers will get ripped off... which sounds about right for WH.

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

Just use them for their epic boosts on sports bets. Tbf they gave me a couple of free £10 build a bets to use and some of the offers during the euros have been +EV.

Obviously using them for slots is a definite no no, but then I’d say that about most places these days. I mean the majority of users on here still play at videoslots which baffles me also.

If hills ban you from promotions you usually get the ‘you’ve been playing more then normal recently’ email and the blag it’s about responsible gambling.

They normally let u back in on promos about a month after.

 

[YouTubeSlots]

Just use them for their epic boosts on sports bets. Tbf they gave me a couple of free £10 build a bets to use and some of the offers during the euros have been +EV.

Obviously using them for slots is a definite no no, but then I’d say that about most places these days. I mean the majority of users on here still play at videoslots which baffles me also.

If hills ban you from promotions you usually get the ‘you’ve been playing more then normal recently’ email and the blag it’s about responsible gambling.

They normally let u back in on promos about a month after.

I agree mate.

I only use them to take advantage of there sports offers. When it comes to there slots, They don't have hardly any providers/games. And there all on shit rtps. Avoid playing slots at will hills! Unless you enjoy a good shafting of your balance that is!

 

[jasonuk]

If hills ban you from promotions you usually get the ‘you’ve been playing more then normal recently’ email and the blag it’s about responsible gambling.

They normally let u back in on promos about a month after.

The tell there will be if they block you from *all* promotions in one go - if it's selective (e.g. you can access some/all sports offers but not casino; or some/all casino offers but not sport) then that'll be an account restriction ("gubbing") rather than linked to responsible gambling.

 

[thr0b]

Such a shitty CMS as well; I was browsing the site and got a popup telling me that I had 10 FS on some game or other. I click it. “You’re not eligible for this promotion”.

If I’m not eligible, don’t interrupt me with popups for it in the first place.

And with that, the account was closed.

 

[mack341]

Anyone else experiencing random 'internet connection lost' moments on WH recently, on tablet and desktop, comes back after several seconds so not really a proper lost connection.

Never experienced these drop-outs on the old WH, it was a solid site iirc.

[Even had it on the bonus drop game]

 

[Guntis]

So what's know they up to, maybe put slots at 20% RTP?

Here is some info:

Evoke owns gambling brands including 888poker, 888casino and 888sport, as well as William Hill. It said it expects “significant improvement in profitability” going into the second half of 2024 as losses from selling its US customer-facing business fall out of the results.

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[jasonuk]

So what's know they up to, maybe put slots at 20% RTP?

... and that's how the "Book of 69" was born.

I jest, but the shock value plus the need for greed could make that a reality for WH in the next couple of years...

 

[conker]

Do WH declare the RTP’s of their slots in the game info or are CM forum members calculating them through their own play? I’m guessing it’s the former.

 

[conker]

I’ve just seen in some of the previous posts that they are ‘sometimes’ published. Or in some cases, hidden as best the casino can. Anyway, I’ve answered my own question

 

[jasonuk]

Do WH declare the RTP’s of their slots in the game info or are CM forum members calculating them through their own play? I’m guessing it’s the former.

For UK players, their license requires them to publish the information - it's usually buried in the game help somewhere.

For other jurisdiction, it'll depend on the local rules - sadly some jurisdictions still don't mandate it... and good luck working out the difference between an 85% and a 96% if you are not technically savvy!

 

[Lemon]

Anyone else experiencing random 'internet connection lost' moments on WH recently, on tablet and desktop, comes back after several seconds so not really a proper lost connection.

Never experienced these drop-outs on the old WH, it was a solid site iirc.

You can easily fix this issue by deleting your account and never playing there again

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

Lemon is very bitter about Hills!!

 

[TheAddict]

Imagine not even being able to remember how bad it was.

 

[shapesy]

Gets worse this place just stopped " best odds guaranteed " for me anyway dont know if its account related or everyone. Dont even tell you until you query a bet settlement

 

[jasonuk]

Gets worse this place just stopped " best odds guaranteed " for me anyway dont know if its account related or everyone. Dont even tell you until you query a bet settlement

They were starting to dial it back last year (as has much of the industry) - both in terms of customer availability and in terms of race availability... so perhaps not a surprise they've chucked it all together with the December refresh of promotions.

Given how bad their default pricing is, I could imagine BOG (which is defined by industry pricing rather than their own) triggering in more cases than they were happy with - which then defeats the purpose of them offering such awful prices in the first place.

They still claim to have "best pricing" though - from 8am to noon , against "six" bookmakers which distils to Bet365, Entain and Flutter, and naturally excluding enhancements, promotions and anything else (which is how most books seem to price now-a-days, you need a "boost" to get the actual price).

But on the plus side, think of the value of their V-Play casino promotion... all those shiny prize wheels paying 30p you could win while playing 88-92% slots...