Video Poker not random?

[Osloking]

Hello all, i found something strange past the years i been playing, but i have till now ignored this,

You see in video poker at least (Netent) if you get say 2 jacks, if you throw them away you will get jacks or better anyway, how can this be random?

Just play the minimum and try it for your self if you dont trust me.

I tested this on RTG and i got the same result, i folded the 222 and got 333, but this happens almost all the time on Netent.

I searched on internett and found lot of people saying exactly what i mean. so the video poker is like slot machines now?

So the machine thinks : i will give him back his bets no matter what?

 

[daveboz]

Nice observation!

I believe sometimes these online video poker games are VIRTUAL LOTTERY TERMINALS. Bodog is a prime example of how bogus this randomness they claim is.

Time and time again I win at Bodog until they decide to switch servers on me. Random? How's this for random? Start with $250 hit Straight flush, (5) 4 kinds who knows how many full houses. Up to $750 in two hours. Technically thats luck right? The cards are still supposed to be generated randomly. So you would think on a 99.4% RTP machine it would take a total disaster or a purposely mishandled playing style to lose the $750 within an hour right? You got it! I'm pissed because I can't just take the gift! It's as if they make you pay for trying to run with the gift. Do not play there late Sunday or late Wed. This is when they adjust the payouts for the comps they give out the next day, essentially a 10-15% return on losses.

 

[funeral979]

So you would think on a 99.4% RTP machine it would take a total disaster or a purposely mishandled playing style to lose the $750 within an hour right?

Technically thats bad luck, right?

 

[daveboz]

should have left out the total disaster part. Essentially, at a 99.4% machine it is virtually impossible to lose it that fast assuming the game is not rigged and the RTP is as advertised.

 

[Scooter7]

So...on a 99.4% machine, how did you manage to WIN big in the first place?
Perhaps there should be a rule that makes EVERY bet pay back EXACTLY 99.4% so we can take all the excitement out of it

 

[BodogBecky]

I believe sometimes these online video poker games are VIRTUAL LOTTERY TERMINALS. Bodog is a prime example of how bogus this randomness they claim is.

Time and time again I win at Bodog until they decide to switch servers on me. Random? How's this for random? Start with $250 hit Straight flush, (5) 4 kinds who knows how many full houses. Up to $750 in two hours. Technically thats luck right? The cards are still supposed to be generated randomly. So you would think on a 99.4% RTP machine it would take a total disaster or a purposely mishandled playing style to lose the $750 within an hour right? You got it! I'm pissed because I can't just take the gift! It's as if they make you pay for trying to run with the gift. Do not play there late Sunday or late Wed. This is when they adjust the payouts for the comps they give out the next day, essentially a 10-15% return on losses.

Apologies if you know this already, but I just wanted to clarify that the casino software licensed to Bodog brand licensees is no longer accurately described as the “RTG Casino” product. BodogBrand acquired the rights to the RTG Casino source code in early 2007 and since then the product has been significantly enhanced and has undergone continuous development. Today, the casino platform licensed to the Bodog brand licensees is effectively a wholly proprietary product.

Also, I can assure you that the bodog casino software is legitimate, it has auditing from three separate, independent companies for their own proprietary games and another testing lab for their third-party games.

Proprietary games -> TST, Gaming Associates, eCOGRA
Third-party Games -> iTech Labs

Link Removed ( Old/Invalid) provides information on the certification of the bodog casino software.

Thank you!
Becky

 

[Stovetopp]

I play at BODOG a lot
There is one scary thing about playing VP at BODOG is this "update" bar that crosses the screen when I am playing It DOES NOT SAY "UPDATE" just ascroll and being very paranoid I switch games immediately I phoned CS and complained but to no avail. What is interesting , is that I have never seen that happening at Jackpot Capital or INETBET and they are both RTG i HOPE bODOGbECKY CAN GIVE A REASONABLE explanation for this phenemon.

As for the OP's original post, how come he/she did not complain when he/she was beating the 99.4% in minutes I would have quit and cashed out immediately. If you had gotten a royal I would think the machine was fixed cause you would have exceeded the 99.4% by a large margin
Once at bodog . I was playing dble dble bonus and got 4 aces(no kickers though
) in a matter of 2 minutes Since then I have yet to see an ace show up while playing dble dble Its all GAMBLING

 

[daveboz]

I noticed the same thing. It happens about ten minutes into your session. I believe they are monitoring play and switching servers. Been awhile since I was disconnected by an administrator as well. Bodog does not like winners. Hit 4 dueces and an ace 3 months ago for 10k and they have been working to get it back ever since.

Heading to Vegas next month for three days to play VP. We will see how it goes on a land based machine, should be easy to tell since I utilize optimal strategy. I hope I am wrong about Bodog. Michael S for some reason supports them, believes them to be legit.

 

[daveboz]

I play at BODOG a lot
There is one scary thing about playing VP at BODOG is this "update" bar that crosses the screen when I am playing It DOES NOT SAY "UPDATE" just ascroll and being very paranoid I switch games immediately I phoned CS and complained but to no avail. What is interesting , is that I have never seen that happening at Jackpot Capital or INETBET and they are both RTG i HOPE bODOGbECKY CAN GIVE A REASONABLE explanation for this phenemon.

As for the OP's original post, how come he/she did not complain when he/she was beating the 99.4% in minutes I would have quit and cashed out immediately. If you had gotten a royal I would think the machine was fixed cause you would have exceeded the 99.4% by a large margin
Once at bodog . I was playing dble dble bonus and got 4 aces(no kickers though
) in a matter of 2 minutes Since then I have yet to see an ace show up while playing dble dble Its all GAMBLING

Anytime you win anything above a three kind the software kicks in with the losing hands. On many occassions you will lose 9-10 straight hands after a 4 kind. Bodog RTG, access to the source code allowed them to create this streakiness. Bodog is the king of nice wins and also the king of losses. The software will pick you apart with long stretches of jacks or better pushes and nothing from low pairs and then throw in a 4 kind and full houses. I have never received so many full houses than at Bodog. But in between they will take it all back. Sometimes you will win a few more hands but after that the program they have written in shuts you down. Cash out or stop playing? You're only chance is to get it out of there. Playing the old win 100 here abd there and logging off just pisses them off. If you are a winner they will still take it the next week or whenever because of their control over your account and the ability to move you from the 99.54% machine to the 25% one.

 

[Nifty29]

Anytime you win anything above a three kind the software kicks in with the losing hands. On many occassions you will lose 9-10 straight hands after a 4 kind. Bodog RTG, access to the source code allowed them to create this streakiness. Bodog is the king of nice wins and also the king of losses. The software will pick you apart with long stretches of jacks or better pushes and nothing from low pairs and then throw in a 4 kind and full houses. I have never received so many full houses than at Bodog. But in between they will take it all back. Sometimes you will win a few more hands but after that the program they have written in shuts you down. Cash out or stop playing? You're only chance is to get it out of there. Playing the old win 100 here abd there and logging off just pisses them off. If you are a winner they will still take it the next week or whenever because of their control over your account and the ability to move you from the 99.54% machine to the 25% one.

Good detective work Daveboz.

Could you please post the source code you have gained access to and point out where it has been altered to allow these shut downs? I'm really keen to see it.

Also, if you could provide your spreadsheet of results showing changes after each 'update' and the losing streak after the 4OAKs that would be awesome.

 

[H1_Roller]

Good detective work Daveboz.

Could you please post the source code you have gained access to and point out where it has been altered to allow these shut downs? I'm really keen to see it.

Also, if you could provide your spreadsheet of results showing changes after each 'update' and the losing streak after the 4OAKs that would be awesome.

I suffer the same kind of losing streaks on MG video poker after getting 4 of a kind. If you look at the last post on the sticky about doubling up in VP you'll see I tracked all my hands for a session; every time I got something decent I lost almost the full value of whatever it was before it picked up again.

I realise that this was only a tiny amount of hands and can't really be used as evidence, but I've always noticed a big downswing like this on MG's VP after big hands. I just put it down to bad luck/swings and roundabouts though

 

[bpb]

Good detective work Daveboz.

Could you please post the source code you have gained access to and point out where it has been altered to allow these shut downs? I'm really keen to see it.

Also, if you could provide your spreadsheet of results showing changes after each 'update' and the losing streak after the 4OAKs that would be awesome.

I doubt that he knows how to use a spreadsheet...

 

[Scooter7]

Anytime you win anything above a three kind the software kicks in with the losing hands.

Can we all pitch in and buy this guy a custom-made tinfoil hat?
:lolsign::lolsign::lolsign:

 

[lots0]

If you understand the variance in these video poker machines you would understand that the casinos don't need to "fix" or manipulate the game.

The odds are already so stacked in the casinos favor, those VP machines are just basically printing money for both the land based and online casinos...

 

[H1_Roller]

If you understand the variance in these video poker machines you would understand that the casinos don't need to "fix" or manipulate the game.

The odds are already so stacked in the casinos favor, those VP machines are just basically printing money for both the land based and online casinos...

Precisely. The casino(s) can't lose... Despite this cast-iron fact, I keep going back to it

 

[Pulver]

It is important to remember that most players don't play anything near the correct strategies on VP and BJ, therefor their edge will be much higher. They simply don't need to rig the game in order to make money.

 

[jod5413]

Every time I see posts about how the games are "fixed" I crack up. In all the years I have played on line, whether slots or video poker or even scratch games, I found myself winning and losing just like I do today. So, if it is fixed and they watch each person's moves and switch them to lose mode after winning, they have been doing it since day one.

 

[daveboz]

Good detective work Daveboz.

Could you please post the source code you have gained access to and point out where it has been altered to allow these shut downs? I'm really keen to see it.

Also, if you could provide your spreadsheet of results showing changes after each 'update' and the losing streak after the 4OAKs that would be awesome.

I make some bold claims there yes. I've found there is not much churn opportunity there after a nice run which you would think would allow for another run. It just ends. It is a fact though, Bodog purchased the source code from RTG software which makes it their proprietary software now giving them free reign to tweak or do what they want. All in all, the streakiness is brutal. Have you ever hit a 4oak at Bodog or any RTG casino? Try it and play a few hands after, maybe ten. Count winners of those ten.

I treat each play session as one time now, if I double my stake I cash out and come back later. Bodog cash out is top notch. Took less than an hour the other day.

 

[playborne]

Randomness is the priority of all online casinos, as in case the software is identified to be based, the player wins all the time- that's too bad for the casinos. So all of them try to stay fair and unbiased ! If you see that the software is not random, if you are rational, you use this biased numbers in favor of you, so why complain about it ?

 

[daveboz]

I suffer the same kind of losing streaks on MG video poker after getting 4 of a kind. If you look at the last post on the sticky about doubling up in VP you'll see I tracked all my hands for a session; every time I got something decent I lost almost the full value of whatever it was before it picked up again.

I realise that this was only a tiny amount of hands and can't really be used as evidence, but I've always noticed a big downswing like this on MG's VP after big hands. I just put it down to bad luck/swings and roundabouts though

HI ROLLER

Ever try the 5 dollar machines? I'm starting to believe the 99.54% RTP is only evident at that denomination. Crazy! Seems to be the only machine I can win on.

 

[daveboz]

I make some bold claims there yes. I've found there is not much churn opportunity there after a nice run which you would think would allow for another run. It just ends. It is a fact though, Bodog purchased the source code from RTG software which makes it their proprietary software now giving them free reign to tweak or do what they want. All in all, the streakiness is brutal. Have you ever hit a 4oak at Bodog or any RTG casino? Try it and play a few hands after, maybe ten. Count winners of those ten.

I treat each play session as one time now, if I double my stake I cash out and come back later. Bodog cash out is top notch. Took less than an hour the other day.

A spreadsheet tracking results? Are you for real LOL! What? track the next draw discard and result x 20? This is VP. You have to keep moving. I'm not referencing slot machines.

 

[3mptyseat]

Apologies if you know this already, but I just wanted to clarify that the casino software licensed to Bodog brand licensees is no longer accurately described as the “RTG Casino” product. BodogBrand acquired the rights to the RTG Casino source code in early 2007 and since then the product has been significantly enhanced and has undergone continuous development. Today, the casino platform licensed to the Bodog brand licensees is effectively a wholly proprietary product.

Also, I can assure you that the bodog casino software is legitimate, it has auditing from three separate, independent companies for their own proprietary games and another testing lab for their third-party games.

Proprietary games -> TST, Gaming Associates, eCOGRA
Third-party Games -> iTech Labs

Link Removed ( Old/Invalid) provides information on the certification of the bodog casino software.

Thank you!
Becky

ok Becky, the only games worth playing besides mystic shuffle are from RTG though, its like CXTM has a gun to ur back to say that everytime some mutters RTG and Bodog in the same breath anywhere in cyberspace ...

Do They? Their games suck, and most of the games that are included in ur 'bespoken' platform including ur blackjack and vp, besides having the code rewritten so they games' RTP can be adjusted at operator whim, look and feel like RTG games... Would U agree to that? And the names seem similar to the old RTG stable, for instance, Bodogs bespoken platform calls Goldbeard, the pirate video slot with big payouts and even bigger waits in between payouts, Goldbeard... Crystal Waters, well, its called Crystal Waters....

When was the last time u heard someone speak of 'Pirate Slots' in any sort of light? Well, that game is awful, but I doubt it will affect anything, can't imagine anyone plays it...

Ah yes, to my point...

Note that the Bodog Rep does not contradict the tone of this op. Instead, they just need to jot a note to correct u, (excuse my paraphrasing) "... silly gambler, for mis-naming the 'wholly proprietary' product that looks and steals just like an RTG, but it isn't. And that shows what u know... And btw, 3 testing groups said we are good enough at math to make our games pay out at a certain RTP, and hence, appear random over a large enuf sample, but in fact they have a 'turn' after which u cashout or u go broke... But what do u care, ur silly gamblers Teee Heee Heee!"

I am mean. They are dishonest and worse; indignantly condescending...

 

[Nifty29]

A spreadsheet tracking results? Are you for real LOL! What? track the next draw discard and result x 20? This is VP. You have to keep moving. I'm not referencing slot machines.

....then without that or playlogs you are just guessing. We always tend to remember the bad things over the good things, and it might surprise you if you were to keep such records.

Anyway, the part I don't get is that one minute you say Bodog is rigged (because they tamper with the source code), and the minute you talk about how you're still playing there. Sorry, but it doesn't give your theory much teeth if you don't really believe it yourself.

 

[Nifty29]

ok Becky, the only games worth playing besides mystic shuffle are from RTG though, its like CXTM has a gun to ur back to say that everytime some mutters RTG and Bodog in the same breath anywhere in cyberspace ...

Do They? Their games suck, and most of the games that are included in ur 'bespoken' platform including ur blackjack and vp, besides having the code rewritten so they games' RTP can be adjusted at operator whim, look and feel like RTG games... Would U agree to that? And the names seem similar to the old RTG stable, for instance, Bodogs bespoken platform calls Goldbeard, the pirate video slot with big payouts and even bigger waits in between payouts, Goldbeard... Crystal Waters, well, its called Crystal Waters....

When was the last time u heard someone speak of 'Pirate Slots' in any sort of light? Well, that game is awful, but I doubt it will affect anything, can't imagine anyone plays it...

Ah yes, to my point...

Note that the Bodog Rep does not contradict the tone of this op. Instead, they just need to jot a note to correct u, (excuse my paraphrasing) "... silly gambler, for mis-naming the 'wholly proprietary' product that looks and steals just like an RTG, but it isn't. And that shows what u know... And btw, 3 testing groups said we are good enough at math to make our games pay out at a certain RTP, and hence, appear random over a large enuf sample, but in fact they have a 'turn' after which u cashout or u go broke... But what do u care, ur silly gamblers Teee Heee Heee!"

I am mean. They are dishonest and worse; indignantly condescending...

In fairness to Becky, she is correct in that the RTG games they use are not the ONLY games available, hence their actual product is not strictly RTG. When was the last time you played an RTG-labelled casino that had other providers' games included?

Of course we all know that many of the games are RTG, but if one is to describe the whole product it is proprietary.

Do they play with the source code? I don't know, and neither do you. So it comes down to trust like at any other casino. If you don't trust them, don't play there. No problem.

I just think it's uncool to accuse any operator or 'rigging' games without any proof whatsoever.

 

[heador112]

You see in video poker at least (Netent) if you get say 2 jacks, if you throw them away you will get jacks or better anyway, how can this be random?

I cannot believe that . If this is really happening often it would be the proof that the game is not random .

Can you post links to other forums where people talk about that ?

I wonder why you are folding a pair of jacks or better and how often (lets say 100 times throwing away a pair of jacks or better ) you get the same after folding ????

 

[bpb]

A spreadsheet tracking results? Are you for real LOL! What? track the next draw discard and result x 20? This is VP. You have to keep moving. I'm not referencing slot machines.

I was right ...

 

[lots0]

Precisely. The casino(s) can't lose... Despite this cast-iron fact, I keep going back to it

You are correct... the casinos can't lose...in the long run...
That is why "stack management" is so crucial. If your ever going to walkaway with money, you have to play smart... not just play a lot...

 

[KasinoKing]

I cannot believe that . If this is really happening often it would be the proof that the game is not random .

Can you post links to other forums where people talk about that ?

I wonder why you are folding a pair of jacks or better and how often (lets say 100 times throwing away a pair of jacks or better ) you get the same after folding ????

Thanks for posting - I was thinking the exact same thing.
This thread has got completely sidetracked to a discussion about RTG randomness, which though interesting in itself, it is no where near as interesting as the experience of the player in the opening post IMO!

Any chance of getting this thread back on track people?
Reminder:

Hello all, i found something strange past the years i been playing, but i have till now ignored this,

You see in video poker at least (Netent) if you get say 2 jacks, if you throw them away you will get jacks or better anyway, how can this be random?

Just play the minimum and try it for your self if you dont trust me.

I tested this on RTG and i got the same result, i folded the 222 and got 333, but this happens almost all the time on Netent.

I searched on internett and found lot of people saying exactly what i mean. so the video poker is like slot machines now?

So the machine thinks : i will give him back his bets no matter what?

 

[Glunn11]

This is an interesting topic to me, and I agree with KK that it would be great if we could get substantive arguments regarding game fairness.

However, it seems that every claim that this is the case uses nothing but anecdotes or how a game "feels". These both, to me, appear to be nothing more than a positive feedback loop of sorts, where players disregard their winning streaks and focus solely on the losing streaks to make a pseudo-argument. Heck, I'm guilty of making accusations in my head when this happens. It's just the way the brain is wired. We seem to be conditioned against skeptical reasoning.

Nonetheless, I don't think that it's outside of the realm of possibility that the games are rigged. However, the burden of proof lies in the hands of the accusers, and I've failed to see any. With counter-evidence such as CSVs of play history and the fact that big names (such as Michael Shackleford [the Wizard of Odds]) have contributed to the creation and testing of the majority of online gaming software, complainants of game fairness need to be using the same mathematical rigor to prove their point.

While I'm not up to testing this hypothesis at this time, I would like to throw this bit in. We are all fully aware that Slotland's "Jacks or Better" game is rigged. The fact that it is a glorified slot machine is made clear in its rules. However, the way the RTP is controlled (in free play mode) is apparently not the same as it is in a land-based VLT. That is to say, I threw away a pair of kings and lost the hand. I admit that this was in freeplay mode, and if someone has evidence to show that it uses VLT-style RTP control in real money play, that would be nice to know.

If anyone is up to running some tests, might I suggest screen recording software. This would help in proving that paying hands, when thrown away, produce an abnormal amount of equally-paying hands.

 

[rainmaker]

You see in video poker at least (Netent) if you get say 2 jacks, if you throw them away you will get jacks or better anyway, how can this be random?

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

The link is for NetEnt VP at Nordicbet. Those who want to try will quickly see that the OP is wrong.

Yeah, it will of course happen. Because it is random. But it does not happens "almost every time".

 

[H1_Roller]

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

The link is for NetEnt VP at Nordicbet. Those who want to try will quickly see that the OP is wrong.

Yeah, it will of course happen. Because it is random. But it does not happens "almost every time".

Thanks. I just cancelled a winning pair countless times and not once got another winning pair as a result.
I wouldn't do it for real money though because, well... that would be stupid, wouldn't it?

 

[daveboz]

RTG

"Software provider also offering back-end casino management. The most profitable online casino solution on the net"

from Wiki
The company indicates that operators are able to choose between payout settings for their slots [8] and video poker games.(9)

links no longer active from rtg website

Old / Expired Link

Old / Expired Link

my quote
"seems to contradict claims from many casinos that they have no control over the performance of video poker games and that it serves no purpose or is in their best interest to do so." quote from Bodog and Club World



A quote from Online Casino Hero

Video poker machine, whether online or land-based, do not run “hot” or “cold.” If you hit a Royal Flush, your chances of getting one on the next play are as high as any other time.

If you’re going to play video poker online, take a little time and find the casinos with the best payouts. Most will be very comparable, but you should also keep things like sign-up bonuses in mind.

The cards in video poker are chosen at random. Don’t listen to anyone who says the games are rigged; they don’t know what they’re talking about.

With perfect play, video poker is one of the few games where the house edge can be negated.

" oh really"? I may not play optimally, but based on the above quote, I should have been able to play for many hours after hitting (3) 4 oaks in about a half hour friday night doubling my stake at Club World (yes rainmaker another whine and yes I had just touted Club World earlier in day). The RTP was performing nicely for another hour as it should at 95-99%, rolling down 35% from peak to 10-15% below peak etc. Than I hit the the 3rd one and it was over, a few full houses thrown in on the way down, another disaster.

Where they get you is curtailing 3 oaks which occur when the RTP is adjusted either by RTG itself on behalf of its customer or by the casino even during the current gaming session. It's also obvious by the change in card selection. After adjusting the payout to below 75% or less, you will see often just one face card on the draw and strings of other garbage during the session.

I still believe there is a VIRTUAL LOTTERY TERMINAL component to RTG software. Where if all the big wins are hit over a period of time they shut down to accumulate again. Big wins are also manufactured which adds to the experience. This is evident by 4 oaks and straight flushes on the draw (so rare) which you can get on RTG.

Bottom line RTG is sketchy, its VP is not truly random. You cannot play for a three hour period even with the proper bankroll for the denomination of choice in comparison to land based casinos.

Also they know they possess a virtual monopoly over the US market. Pretty much the only option. Vegas Tech? Another story altogether. At least with RTG you win some before they flip the switch and take it all.

 

[Nifty29]

RTG

"Software provider also offering back-end casino management. The most profitable online casino solution on the net"

from Wiki
The company indicates that operators are able to choose between payout settings for their slots [8] and video poker games.(9)

links no longer active from rtg website

Old / Expired Link

Old / Expired Link

my quote
"seems to contradict claims from many casinos that they have no control over the performance of video poker games and that it serves no purpose or is in their best interest to do so." quote from Bodog and Club World



A quote from Online Casino Hero

Video poker machine, whether online or land-based, do not run “hot” or “cold.” If you hit a Royal Flush, your chances of getting one on the next play are as high as any other time.

If you’re going to play video poker online, take a little time and find the casinos with the best payouts. Most will be very comparable, but you should also keep things like sign-up bonuses in mind.

The cards in video poker are chosen at random. Don’t listen to anyone who says the games are rigged; they don’t know what they’re talking about.

With perfect play, video poker is one of the few games where the house edge can be negated.

" oh really"? I may not play optimally, but based on the above quote, I should have been able to play for many hours after hitting (3) 4 oaks in about a half hour friday night doubling my stake at Club World (yes rainmaker another whine and yes I had just touted Club World earlier in day). The RTP was performing nicely for another hour as it should at 95-99%, rolling down 35% from peak to 10-15% below peak etc. Than I hit the the 3rd one and it was over, a few full houses thrown in on the way down, another disaster.

Where they get you is curtailing 3 oaks which occur when the RTP is adjusted either by RTG itself on behalf of its customer or by the casino even during the current gaming session. It's also obvious by the change in card selection. After adjusting the payout to below 75% or less, you will see often just one face card on the draw and strings of other garbage during the session.

I still believe there is a VIRTUAL LOTTERY TERMINAL component to RTG software. Where if all the big wins are hit over a period of time they shut down to accumulate again. Big wins are also manufactured which adds to the experience. This is evident by 4 oaks and straight flushes on the draw (so rare) which you can get on RTG.

Bottom line RTG is sketchy, its VP is not truly random. You cannot play for a three hour period even with the proper bankroll for the denomination of choice in comparison to land based casinos.

Also they know they possess a virtual monopoly over the US market. Pretty much the only option. Vegas Tech? Another story altogether. At least with RTG you win some before they flip the switch and take it all.

Can someone please pass the tin foil hat....

 

[FreeDomme]

IIRC Hero was a crooked casino and lied to not pay a player and they had their license revoked.

You can tell your VP pay by looking at the paytable right before your eyes. Compare the same game on several RTG casinos and you just might find a full pay machine.

I don't know how they adjust slots but I'm sure somebody else here does.

 

[daveboz]

....then without that or playlogs you are just guessing. We always tend to remember the bad things over the good things, and it might surprise you if you were to keep such records.

Anyway, the part I don't get is that one minute you say Bodog is rigged (because they tamper with the source code), and the minute you talk about how you're still playing there. Sorry, but it doesn't give your theory much teeth if you don't really believe it yourself.

I continue because I hope I am wrong. Unfortunately, I've had to lose more money to prove my theory correct. I admit, who complains about the "gifts" or winning streaks? My point is you will not be able to build a pot from those winnings and continue to play indefinitely. Winners are targeted... The only solution is to cash out. Even then if you re deposit they will work to take back the cash out. Its not as if you are able to hide online. The administrator's on duty see you log in and I'm sure certain accounts are flagged.

 

[daveboz]

IIRC Hero was a crooked casino and lied to not pay a player and they had their license revoked.

You can tell your VP pay by looking at the paytable right before your eyes. Compare the same game on several RTG casinos and you just might find a full pay machine.

I don't know how they adjust slots but I'm sure somebody else here does.

I'm not talking about the paytable. You do know the difference between RTP and the pay out table right?

 

[FreeDomme]

I'm not talking about the paytable. You do know the difference between RTP and the pay out table right?

The only way to adjust a VP machine is through the paytable. The RTP is stated right before your eyes if you know how to read a VP paytable. The RTP is not adjustable except through a change in the paytable. Anything else would be crooked if it wasn't clearly stated that you were playing a slot machine. I'm sure you wouldn't have been the first to notice it.

 

[bpb]

I'm not talking about the paytable. You do know the difference between RTP and the pay out table right?

There is no difference if the game is honest.

Stop posting here and call 1-800-GAMBLER. You have a problem. Admitting it is the first step.

 

[SadFatMan]

There is no difference if the game is honest.

Stop posting here and call 1-800-GAMBLER. You have a problem. Admitting it is the first step.

that's not nice. I'm always taken aback when one online gambler accuses another online gambler of having a "gambling problem".

we all have problems to varying degrees, and some of our problems involve gambling;
but one heroin user calling out another is just not good form (even if the other user happens to use heroin less "responsibly")

 

[bpb]

that's not nice. I'm always taken aback when one online gambler accuses another online gambler of having a "gambling problem".

we all have problems to varying degrees, and some of our problems involve gambling;
but one heroin user calling out another is just not good form (even if the other user happens to use heroin less "responsibly")

Sorry that you find my comment to be "not nice". But you have a person in this thread who is convinced that the games are rigged against him, yet continues to play regardless. That same person is using the rigged argument to explain away his losses to random strangers on an internet forum.

Hey, the phone call is free. It could change a life. Can't do much harm.

 

[FreeDomme]

A tin foil hat could be used to chase the dragon I suppose.
I think we gamblers all carry some superstitions. My husband had dozens of little quirks and rituals and he was a very intelligent and knowledgeable man. Maybe its better to educate than censure and barring that pity or at least show compassion.

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is a useful tool for the OP.

When we become delusional about our unfounded beliefs and start to see what we expect to see in the vast ocean of random numbers a little reality check from others who are familiar with the game can be a good thing.

If droves of disillusioned gamblers add their voices to each other's it could be confusing for the uneducated or unsure. It would annoy me and I would drop out. The machine is either a VP terminal or it is a slot machine and I'm pretty sure the likes of Wizard of Odds, and sharp players over the years have already determined what it is.

 

[Nifty29]

A tin foil hat could be used to chase the dragon I suppose.
I think we gamblers all carry some superstitions. My husband had dozens of little quirks and rituals and he was a very intelligent and knowledgeable man. Maybe its better to educate than censure and barring that pity or at least show compassion.

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is a useful tool for the OP.

When we become delusional about our unfounded beliefs and start to see what we expect to see in the vast ocean of random numbers a little reality check from others who are familiar with the game can be a good thing.

If droves of disillusioned gamblers add their voices to each other's it could be confusing for the uneducated or unsure. It would annoy me and I would drop out. The machine is either a VP terminal or it is a slot machine and I'm pretty sure the likes of Wizard of Odds, and sharp players over the years have already determined what it is.

I agree about the adding voices and giving new/uneducated gamblers the wrong impression.

It is not uncommon in these forums to read about 'gamblers' theories' about how casinos can change personal RTPs on the fly and re-write code etc etc. Personally, I've tried many times to 'educate' such people about the realities of casino games, and in 99.9% of cases it's a lost cause, because in my experience, it's more about that person's lack of control of their gambling which compels them to lash out at the operator who is 'ripping them off'.

Unfortunately, as I said, most of these people won't listen, and you can usually tell the ones who will by how they phrase their posts i.e. questions not statements. I'm more than happy to assist such people and have done so via PM on many occasions over the years (and some are still around enjoying their gambling which is how it should be ), but with the rest there is little choice but to paint them as tin-foil-hatters to avoid (as you said) others actually believing this nonsense is fact.

As I've said before, when I started out I was a bit like the OP in thinking that everything was rigged etc and I was anti-casino wherever possible, but thanks to some other members who provided the facts and talked about very important things like bankroll management and game choice, my views are very different these days and I can occasionally turn a profit instead of blowing the lot every time I play.

Good post Domme.