Video Poker not random?

Osloking

Quit Gambling
Joined
Dec 31, 2010
Location
Norge or NO-WAY!
Hello all, i found something strange past the years i been playing, but i have till now ignored this,

You see in video poker at least (Netent) if you get say 2 jacks, if you throw them away you will get jacks or better anyway, how can this be random?

Just play the minimum and try it for your self if you dont trust me.

I tested this on RTG and i got the same result, i folded the 222 and got 333, but this happens almost all the time on Netent.

I searched on internett and found lot of people saying exactly what i mean. so the video poker is like slot machines now?

So the machine thinks : i will give him back his bets no matter what?
 

daveboz

Banned User
Joined
Mar 27, 2011
Location
Seattle
Nice observation!

I believe sometimes these online video poker games are VIRTUAL LOTTERY TERMINALS. Bodog is a prime example of how bogus this randomness they claim is.

Time and time again I win at Bodog until they decide to switch servers on me. Random? How's this for random? Start with $250 hit Straight flush, (5) 4 kinds who knows how many full houses. Up to $750 in two hours. Technically thats luck right? The cards are still supposed to be generated randomly. So you would think on a 99.4% RTP machine it would take a total disaster or a purposely mishandled playing style to lose the $750 within an hour right? You got it! I'm pissed because I can't just take the gift! It's as if they make you pay for trying to run with the gift. Do not play there late Sunday or late Wed. This is when they adjust the payouts for the comps they give out the next day, essentially a 10-15% return on losses.
 

daveboz

Banned User
Joined
Mar 27, 2011
Location
Seattle
should have left out the total disaster part. Essentially, at a 99.4% machine it is virtually impossible to lose it that fast assuming the game is not rigged and the RTP is as advertised.
 

Scooter7

Meister Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2005
Location
Toronto
So...on a 99.4% machine, how did you manage to WIN big in the first place?
Perhaps there should be a rule that makes EVERY bet pay back EXACTLY 99.4% so we can take all the excitement out of it:rolleyes::lolup:
 

BodogBecky

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 28, 2009
Location
Boston, MA
I believe sometimes these online video poker games are VIRTUAL LOTTERY TERMINALS. Bodog is a prime example of how bogus this randomness they claim is.

Time and time again I win at Bodog until they decide to switch servers on me. Random? How's this for random? Start with $250 hit Straight flush, (5) 4 kinds who knows how many full houses. Up to $750 in two hours. Technically thats luck right? The cards are still supposed to be generated randomly. So you would think on a 99.4% RTP machine it would take a total disaster or a purposely mishandled playing style to lose the $750 within an hour right? You got it! I'm pissed because I can't just take the gift! It's as if they make you pay for trying to run with the gift. Do not play there late Sunday or late Wed. This is when they adjust the payouts for the comps they give out the next day, essentially a 10-15% return on losses.

Apologies if you know this already, but I just wanted to clarify that the casino software licensed to Bodog brand licensees is no longer accurately described as the “RTG Casino” product. BodogBrand acquired the rights to the RTG Casino source code in early 2007 and since then the product has been significantly enhanced and has undergone continuous development. Today, the casino platform licensed to the Bodog brand licensees is effectively a wholly proprietary product.

Also, I can assure you that the bodog casino software is legitimate, it has auditing from three separate, independent companies for their own proprietary games and another testing lab for their third-party games.

Proprietary games -> TST, Gaming Associates, eCOGRA
Third-party Games -> iTech Labs

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
provides information on the certification of the bodog casino software.

Thank you!
Becky
 

Stovetopp

Senior Member
MM
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Location
On the Beach
I play at BODOG a lot
There is one scary thing about playing VP at BODOG is this "update" bar that crosses the screen when I am playing It DOES NOT SAY "UPDATE" just ascroll and being very paranoid I switch games immediately I phoned CS and complained but to no avail. What is interesting , is that I have never seen that happening at Jackpot Capital or INETBET and they are both RTG i HOPE bODOGbECKY CAN GIVE A REASONABLE explanation for this phenemon.

As for the OP's original post, how come he/she did not complain when he/she was beating the 99.4% in minutes I would have quit and cashed out immediately. If you had gotten a royal I would think the machine was fixed cause you would have exceeded the 99.4% by a large margin
Once at bodog . I was playing dble dble bonus and got 4 aces(no kickers though
) in a matter of 2 minutes Since then I have yet to see an ace show up while playing dble dble Its all GAMBLING
 

daveboz

Banned User
Joined
Mar 27, 2011
Location
Seattle
I noticed the same thing. It happens about ten minutes into your session. I believe they are monitoring play and switching servers. Been awhile since I was disconnected by an administrator as well. Bodog does not like winners. Hit 4 dueces and an ace 3 months ago for 10k and they have been working to get it back ever since.

Heading to Vegas next month for three days to play VP. We will see how it goes on a land based machine, should be easy to tell since I utilize optimal strategy. I hope I am wrong about Bodog. Michael S for some reason supports them, believes them to be legit.
 

daveboz

Banned User
Joined
Mar 27, 2011
Location
Seattle
I play at BODOG a lot
There is one scary thing about playing VP at BODOG is this "update" bar that crosses the screen when I am playing It DOES NOT SAY "UPDATE" just ascroll and being very paranoid I switch games immediately I phoned CS and complained but to no avail. What is interesting , is that I have never seen that happening at Jackpot Capital or INETBET and they are both RTG i HOPE bODOGbECKY CAN GIVE A REASONABLE explanation for this phenemon.

As for the OP's original post, how come he/she did not complain when he/she was beating the 99.4% in minutes I would have quit and cashed out immediately. If you had gotten a royal I would think the machine was fixed cause you would have exceeded the 99.4% by a large margin
Once at bodog . I was playing dble dble bonus and got 4 aces(no kickers though
) in a matter of 2 minutes Since then I have yet to see an ace show up while playing dble dble Its all GAMBLING


Anytime you win anything above a three kind the software kicks in with the losing hands. On many occassions you will lose 9-10 straight hands after a 4 kind. Bodog RTG, access to the source code allowed them to create this streakiness. Bodog is the king of nice wins and also the king of losses. The software will pick you apart with long stretches of jacks or better pushes and nothing from low pairs and then throw in a 4 kind and full houses. I have never received so many full houses than at Bodog. But in between they will take it all back. Sometimes you will win a few more hands but after that the program they have written in shuts you down. Cash out or stop playing? You're only chance is to get it out of there. Playing the old win 100 here abd there and logging off just pisses them off. If you are a winner they will still take it the next week or whenever because of their control over your account and the ability to move you from the 99.54% machine to the 25% one.
 

Nifty29

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
Anytime you win anything above a three kind the software kicks in with the losing hands. On many occassions you will lose 9-10 straight hands after a 4 kind. Bodog RTG, access to the source code allowed them to create this streakiness. Bodog is the king of nice wins and also the king of losses. The software will pick you apart with long stretches of jacks or better pushes and nothing from low pairs and then throw in a 4 kind and full houses. I have never received so many full houses than at Bodog. But in between they will take it all back. Sometimes you will win a few more hands but after that the program they have written in shuts you down. Cash out or stop playing? You're only chance is to get it out of there. Playing the old win 100 here abd there and logging off just pisses them off. If you are a winner they will still take it the next week or whenever because of their control over your account and the ability to move you from the 99.54% machine to the 25% one.

Good detective work Daveboz.

Could you please post the source code you have gained access to and point out where it has been altered to allow these shut downs? I'm really keen to see it.

Also, if you could provide your spreadsheet of results showing changes after each 'update' and the losing streak after the 4OAKs that would be awesome.
 

H1_Roller

Non-Gambler
Joined
Mar 16, 2011
Location
...
Good detective work Daveboz.

Could you please post the source code you have gained access to and point out where it has been altered to allow these shut downs? I'm really keen to see it.

Also, if you could provide your spreadsheet of results showing changes after each 'update' and the losing streak after the 4OAKs that would be awesome.

I suffer the same kind of losing streaks on MG video poker after getting 4 of a kind. If you look at the last post on the sticky about doubling up in VP you'll see I tracked all my hands for a session; every time I got something decent I lost almost the full value of whatever it was before it picked up again.

I realise that this was only a tiny amount of hands and can't really be used as evidence, but I've always noticed a big downswing like this on MG's VP after big hands. I just put it down to bad luck/swings and roundabouts though ;)
 

bpb

Banned User - repeated violations of rule 1.14 (tr
PABnonaccred
PABnorogue
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Good detective work Daveboz.

Could you please post the source code you have gained access to and point out where it has been altered to allow these shut downs? I'm really keen to see it.

Also, if you could provide your spreadsheet of results showing changes after each 'update' and the losing streak after the 4OAKs that would be awesome.

I doubt that he knows how to use a spreadsheet...
 

lots0

Banned User - troll posts - flaming
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Location
Hell on Earth
If you understand the variance in these video poker machines you would understand that the casinos don't need to "fix" or manipulate the game.

The odds are already so stacked in the casinos favor, those VP machines are just basically printing money for both the land based and online casinos... :rolleyes:
 

H1_Roller

Non-Gambler
Joined
Mar 16, 2011
Location
...
If you understand the variance in these video poker machines you would understand that the casinos don't need to "fix" or manipulate the game.

The odds are already so stacked in the casinos favor, those VP machines are just basically printing money for both the land based and online casinos... :rolleyes:

Precisely. The casino(s) can't lose... Despite this cast-iron fact, I keep going back to it :D
 

Pulver

Senior Member
webmeister
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Tellus
It is important to remember that most players don't play anything near the correct strategies on VP and BJ, therefor their edge will be much higher. They simply don't need to rig the game in order to make money.
 

jod5413

Is That Better?
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Location
somewhere on the planet
Every time I see posts about how the games are "fixed" I crack up. In all the years I have played on line, whether slots or video poker or even scratch games, I found myself winning and losing just like I do today. So, if it is fixed and they watch each person's moves and switch them to lose mode after winning, they have been doing it since day one.
 

daveboz

Banned User
Joined
Mar 27, 2011
Location
Seattle
Good detective work Daveboz.

Could you please post the source code you have gained access to and point out where it has been altered to allow these shut downs? I'm really keen to see it.

Also, if you could provide your spreadsheet of results showing changes after each 'update' and the losing streak after the 4OAKs that would be awesome.

I make some bold claims there yes. I've found there is not much churn opportunity there after a nice run which you would think would allow for another run. It just ends. It is a fact though, Bodog purchased the source code from RTG software which makes it their proprietary software now giving them free reign to tweak or do what they want. All in all, the streakiness is brutal. Have you ever hit a 4oak at Bodog or any RTG casino? Try it and play a few hands after, maybe ten. Count winners of those ten.

I treat each play session as one time now, if I double my stake I cash out and come back later. Bodog cash out is top notch. Took less than an hour the other day.
 

playborne

Banned User
Joined
May 9, 2011
Location
British Virgin Islands
Randomness is the priority of all online casinos, as in case the software is identified to be based, the player wins all the time- that's too bad for the casinos. So all of them try to stay fair and unbiased ! If you see that the software is not random, if you are rational, you use this biased numbers in favor of you, so why complain about it ?
 

daveboz

Banned User
Joined
Mar 27, 2011
Location
Seattle
I suffer the same kind of losing streaks on MG video poker after getting 4 of a kind. If you look at the last post on the sticky about doubling up in VP you'll see I tracked all my hands for a session; every time I got something decent I lost almost the full value of whatever it was before it picked up again.

I realise that this was only a tiny amount of hands and can't really be used as evidence, but I've always noticed a big downswing like this on MG's VP after big hands. I just put it down to bad luck/swings and roundabouts though ;)


HI ROLLER

Ever try the 5 dollar machines? I'm starting to believe the 99.54% RTP is only evident at that denomination. Crazy! Seems to be the only machine I can win on.
 
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