President Trump

[goatwack]

Ahh....politics....you gotta love how it brings out the best in everyone. I think next we should talk about sex or religion

Saying that, those Iranians eh. Getting right shirty with the UN about the nuclear accord. Trumpo does have a propensity to trigger world leaders....WW3 is looming by the looks of it

 

[lockinlove]

Ahh....politics....you gotta love how it brings out the best in everyone. I think next we should talk about sex or religion

Saying that, those Iranians eh. Getting right shirty with the UN about the nuclear accord. Trumpo does have a propensity to trigger world leaders....WW3 is looming by the looks of it

religion is the worst to discuss lol. We think politics is bad....While we will defend our views on politics, religion I wouldnt even dare to wander into. You can lose you friends over stuff like that. All it takes is to whisper that Jesus is the same as riding unicorns or hanging out with leprechauns. And that will cause YUGE rifts.

 

[Flyer187]

I can highly recommend 2 books by Tim Marshall that are very timely in terms of this thread:

a). Prisoners of Geography

b). A Flag Worth Dying For

Both provide very well delivered explanations of why certain world events have taken place and why they will continue to happen.

 

[Harry_BKK]

It sure is interesting how every day for months CNN and the rest of the liberal media put James Comey on a pedestal, believed and hung off every word he said especially in regards to Russia. And now it looks like Comey himself may be facing charges of obstruction of justice, perjury, hatch act violations and collusion.

And not a single article can be found on CNN. My oh my can cnn show any more blatant bias? I thought they were supposed to be a news agency and report on everything? Not hide news that goes against their agenda. No wonder we have so many swayed people in the world when they only get one side of the news and not the other.
SAD!

So FAKE! SAD!

Do a quick search on CNN and you will see that they reported it on the 12th September!

Getting desperate trying to defend Trump, eh?

Oh some more misleading stuff by Harry. Id love to say im shocked but im not

They had something buried on the politics section

Surely something so serious would get headlined on the front page. Since you know, what kind of shoes Melania wears to walk through hurricane affected areas made it to their front page.

First you post an outright lie, I quote you: "And not a single article can be found on CNN." I then show you that it was reported, you call it "misleading stuff" and "They had something buried on the politics section".

For somebody who thinks CNN is fake news you seem to be reading it all the time since you knew exactly where it was. Although that is wrong too, if you care to use "wayback" it was on the front page!

My 8-year old would say: "liar, liar, pants on fire". I am saying: 4 Pinocchios for "lockinlove" for this post.

Harry with more assumptions! Again, I would love to be shocked but I am not because it seems when it comes to politics, thats all it is with you. I think the worst part is when you are shown wrong time after time after time, you always come out swinging with the insults. But I do have to give you credit, you have toned it down with the dramatic eyeroll emotes!

But just to clear it up, I only knew it was only in the politics page because I just searched it after you said there was an article so your entire post is once again moot. But thanks for calling me a liar and for that even more dramatic comment about what your 8 year old would say.

For clarity, i quoted all posts regarding your latest: "misleading stuff by Harry" and "Harry with more assumptions".

You sure think you are always right and all others here on CM are fools.

You clearly posted a lie: "And not a single article can be found on CNN. My oh my can cnn show any more blatant bias?" ... yet you call my answer that there was indeed an article "misleading stuff".... I then point out to you that it was on the front page and you answer with "Harry with more assumptions"

Can you please explain where in your view that was "misleading stuff" and "more assumptions" when i pointed to clear facts?

And since you are so content...better quote your post from the 9/11 thread: " I dont know what you accept as justified, but to me, I feel content with these military actions." I suggest you enlist voluntarily and ask to be posted to the front line. When you then return on one leg, the other lost to an IED, half deaf from the IED explosion and combat PTSD I want to see if you are still so "CONTENT". Easy to be sooo content when you sit on your keyboard.

Last but not least regarding your comment: "The other Iran who has classes on hating americans and jews where the government hold prayers and chant death to america." - read up on the history on why Iran turned anti-American.

Hint: coup d'etat in the 50's financed and orchestrated by the CIA.

Wikipedia:

In August 2013, 60 years after, the American Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) admitted that it was in charge of both the planning and the execution of the coup, including the bribing of Iranian politicians, security and army high-ranking officials, as well as pro-coup propaganda.The CIA is quoted acknowledging the coup was carried out "under CIA direction" and "as an act of U.S. foreign policy, conceived and approved at the highest levels of government"

.....five American petroleum companies, Royal Dutch Shell, and the Compagnie Française des Pétroles, were to draw Iran's petroleum after the successful coup d'état—Operation Ajax.

'nough said!

 

[lockinlove]

For clarity, i quoted all posts regarding your latest: "misleading stuff by Harry" and "Harry with more assumptions".

You sure think you are always right and all others here on CM are fools.

You clearly posted a lie: "And not a single article can be found on CNN. My oh my can cnn show any more blatant bias?" ... yet you call my answer that there was indeed an article "misleading stuff".... I then point out to you that it was on the front page and you answer with "Harry with more assumptions"

Can you please explain where in your view that was "misleading stuff" and "more assumptions" when i pointed to clear facts?

And since you are so content...better quote your post from the 9/11 thread: " I dont know what you accept as justified, but to me, I feel content with these military actions." I suggest you enlist voluntarily and ask to be posted to the front line. When you then return on one leg, the other lost to an IED, half deaf from the IED explosion and combat PTSD I want to see if you are still so "CONTENT". Easy to be sooo content when you sit on your keyboard.

Last but not least regarding your comment: "The other Iran who has classes on hating americans and jews where the government hold prayers and chant death to america." - read up on the history on why Iran turned anti-American.

Hint: coup d'etat in the 50's financed and orchestrated by the CIA.

Wikipedia:


'nough said!

There is no need for clarity at all. There was nothing I could find on CNN when I wrote it but on every other news outlet. So I guess it was just a slow day on CNN? Oh right you found an article buried on some other page on a different date from when I posted!! Damn me I should have searched all over CNN on sept 12. I should have known such a massive story headlined everywhere else was buried!!!!

I think it says enough when you defend a country chanting death to americans and jews.

So no one is allowed to have an opinion unless they lose their legs? My god your posts get more wild by the day.



And yes I will keep using the word assumptions as you continue to make them. You know, like the assumption I'm thinking others on CM are fools.

Back to the eyeroll emotes eh Harry

 

[goatwack]

Gimme a sec....just gonna grab some popcorn brb :eat:

 

[Harry_BKK]

There is no need for clarity at all. There was nothing I could find on CNN when I wrote it but on every other news outlet. So I guess it was just a slow day on CNN? Oh right you found an article buried on some other page!! Damn me I should have searched all over CNN. I should have known such a massive story headlined everywhere else was buried!!!!

I think it says enough when you defend a country chanting death to americans and jews.

So no one is allowed to have an opinion unless they lose their legs? My god your posts get more wild by the day.



And yes I will keep using the word assumptions as you continue to make them. You know, like the assumption I'm thinking others on CM are fools.

Back to the eyeroll emotes eh Harry

You wrote your post on 14th September, CNN reported the story on 12th September, hence, no, CNN was not slow. And again, it was on the front page.....not buried as you keep implying. Use "wayback" and you will see. I found it in less than 1 minute.

Nowhere did I write that I am defending the Iran, you are writing falsehoods again. I only posted one of the reasons why Iran has turned anti-American. It was the US's own doing, actually minutely planned doing, that got the ball rolling!

Everyone is allowed to his/her own opinion, nowhere did I write that "no one is allowed to have an opinion". I merely suggested that if you are so content with military actions and with that, the US invading other countries without being attacked, then you should enlist yourself to experience what it really means to be in a war. Or just ask Bryan, he has been deployed.

I do not make assumptions, it is a result of observations and reading your posts that led to that comment.

As for assumptions, what do you think this comment from you is? - "No wonder we have so many swayed people in the world when they only get one side of the news and not the other." Are you not assuming that people only read/watch one news source and do not inform themselves by cross-referencing information?

 

[Adriana B]

Gimme a sec....just gonna grab some popcorn brb :eat:

Wait for me Goatwack. I'll bring the beer!

 

[lockinlove]

You wrote your post on 14th September, CNN reported the story on 12th September, hence, no, CNN was not slow. And again, it was on the front page.....not buried as you keep implying. Use "wayback" and you will see. I found it in less than 1 minute.

I used the search function on CNN that showed the article was posted back in the politics section on sept 12. On sept 14th..yahoo news, abc, bbc, fox, ctv, cbc all had it on their front page. I visited CNN and there was absolutely nothing. You know, the largest and most up to date news agency in the world somehow doesnt have the biggest story on their front page. But somehow find room to put what Trumps tweets all over it.

Nowhere did I write that I am defending the Iran, you are writing falsehoods again. I only posted one of the reasons why Iran has turned anti-American. It was the US's own doing, actually minutely planned doing, that got the ball rolling!

Harry, it seems like you are playing the bait and switch game. You write one thing that is clearly suggesting something and try to back it up with wikepedia articles but when called out on it, you pull back and say it didnt mean anything. Why post reasons? There is no good enough reason to chant and wish death to over 100 million innocent people.

Everyone is allowed to his/her own opinion, nowhere did I write that "no one is allowed to have an opinion". I merely suggested that if you are so content with military actions and with that, the US invading other countries without being attacked, then you should enlist yourself to experience what it really means to be in a war. Or just ask Bryan, he has been deployed.

I wrote my opinion. You said if I want to think like that I should join the army. And now for some weird reason you ask me to ask Bryan? Are you assuming I dont have military family. My uncle is in the USAF. My nephew is in the Canadian army, my cousin is in Quebec in boot camp. My aunt lives on a military base in the USA with her husband. My neighbor who I am friends with had family that fought as the republican guard. My dad was in the army and my Great grandfather fought in WWII.And yet, I still think none of that matters or asking Bryan or anyone else, matters. I do not need to be in the military to suggest that if america attacked NK, there is just cause for it.

I do not make assumptions, it is a result of observations and reading your posts that led to that comment.

No. You made a claim I think others on CM are fools. If I did not say those words, its called an assumption. I respect everyone's opinion even though i think some of the comments being made in this thread and others are incredibly outlandish. When someone else in another thread stated they think every country in the world should be allowed to have nukes? Did I call that person an idiot even though I was taken back by the comment? Or when the person tried using a mentally ill person as proof of some 9/11 conspiracy? No, if thats what they want to believe, they are entitled to do so.

Wait for me Goatwack. I'll bring the beer!

First post in months and its about beer. I think I know why I liked you from time to time

 

[Steviedoo]

Wait for me Goatwack. I'll bring the beer!

Where have you been....

Beer, eh.

 

[Harry_BKK]

I used the search function on CNN that showed the article was posted back in the politics section on sept 12. On sept 14th..yahoo news, abc, bbc, fox, ctv, cbc all had it on their front page. I visited CNN and there was absolutely nothing. You know, the largest and most up to date news agency in the world somehow doesnt have the biggest story on their front page. But somehow find room to put what Trumps tweets all over it.

So CNN reports it 2 days earlier than all the other outlets and you claim they had absolutely nothing. Just so funny how you try to defend the indefensible. Again, use wayback and you will see that it was indeed on the front page when it was published.

Harry, it seems like you are playing the bait and switch game. You write one thing that is clearly suggesting something and try to back it up with wikepedia articles but when called out on it, you pull back and say it didnt mean anything. Why post reasons? There is no good enough reason to chant and wish death to over 100 million innocent people.

Why do you assume I play games or pull back? You wrote in your post that the Iran hates America and Jews, hence, I posted one of the main reasons why it has come to that. I have been to Iran a few times in 2006/7/8 (needed a separate passport as Israel would not allow me to enter with an Iranian visa and stamp in the passport) and rarely met friendlier and more welcoming people. None of the few dozen Iranians I have spoken to directly for more than just a few minutes had any negative sentiments against the US in such that they were chanting or wishing death to Americans or Jews. In contrary, they were all hoping for a better future, if just those sanctions would be lifted (they agreed that their government would have to make amends for that to happen), and the return to the life of proud Persians they were before all the trouble started.

BTW, there is neither a good reason for Trump to threaten to annihilate 25 Mio people in NK.

I wrote my opinion. You said if I want to think like that I should join the army. And now for some weird reason you ask me to ask Bryan? Are you assuming I dont have military family. My uncle is in the USAF. My nephew is in the Canadian army, my cousin is in Quebec in boot camp. My aunt lives on a military base in the USA with her husband. My neighbor who I am friends with had family that fought as the republican guard. My dad was in the army and my Great grandfather fought in WWII.And yet, I still think none of that matters or asking Bryan or anyone else, matters. I do not need to be in the military to suggest that if america attacked NK, there is just cause for it.

You can have 100 family members and friends who are vets but you will never know what war is like until you have been there. As for asking Bryan --> he is an army vet, if you didn't know it. My whole generation of grandfathers and granduncles and god knows who else from my extended family fought and died in WWII. My two great grandfathers fought in both, WWI and WWII. Still does not make me an expert on whether it is right to attack a country or that I should ever be content of military actions.

And no, there is no just cause to attack NK, you can twist it how you want. Unless NK commits clear acts of war there is no reason whatsoever for a preemptive strike. The only one who keeps threatening war is the US. SK and China, direct neighbors, and all other members of the UN council clearly state relentlessly that they will never support another war on the KP and the solution can only be diplomatic.

No. You made a claim I think others on CM are fools. If I did not say those words, its called an assumption. I respect everyone's opinion even though i think some of the comments being made in this thread and others are incredibly outlandish. When someone else in another thread stated they think every country in the world should be allowed to have nukes? Did I call that person an idiot even though I was taken back by the comment? Or when the person tried using a mentally ill person as proof of some 9/11 conspiracy? No, if thats what they want to believe, they are entitled to do so.

Well, you keep saying that CM members are posting garbage, are under the influence of the liberal media, are uninformed etc., hence, you clearly think that CM members are fools.

As for every country having nukes? Hypothetically speaking, I could ask why should the US be allowed to keep them? What makes them different from others?

 

[Adriana B]

Where have you been....

Beer, eh.

Been a rough few months. Depleted all my accounts (instadebit, ecopayz and bank account) so I have been staying away from this forum. I missed it though.

Wine actually but figured goatie would prefer beer.

 

[lockinlove]

So CNN reports it 2 days earlier than all the other outlets and you claim they had absolutely nothing. Just so funny how you try to defend the indefensible. Again, use wayback and you will see that it was indeed on the front page when it was published

There is nothing funny. And yes you do like to play games. This attempt at gotchya is ridiculous. I searched CNN and it is not showing what you say. And my post was on sept 14th. Not sept 12th. And CNN search history shows it on the politics page on the date you claim. CNN posting something 2 days prior to my post on a buried page only further proves CNN is bias. So why on sept 14th does every news outlet have it plastered all over their front page and big bold lettering but CNN nothing? What is your reasoning for this? Because the story is done? Because they posted it 2 days earlier on a back page? I know why. Because CNN mocked Trump for making those claims that actually seem to be true. Just like they mocked Trump about wire taps. And now thats showing to be true.

You may not like it but CNN is becoming widely known as fake and a bully. Dont trust me? Trust the polls being taken.

Why do you assume I play games or pull back. You wrote in your post that the Iran hates America and Jews, hence, I posted one of the main reasons why it has come to that. I have been to Iran a few times in 2006/7/8 (needed a separate passport as Israel would not allow me to enter with an Iranian visa and stamp in the passport) and rarely met friendlier and more welcoming people. None of the few dozen Iranians I have spoken to directly for more than just a few minutes had any negative sentiments against the US in such that they were chanting or wishing death to Americans or Jews. In contrary, they were all hoping for a better future, if just those sanctions would be lifted (they agreed that their government would have to make amends for that to happen), and the return to the life of proud Persians they were before all the trouble started.

BTW, there is neither a good reason for Trump to threaten to annihilate 25 Mio people in NK.

There is no reason for it. No act of hate or crime deserves death and suffering threats to an entire country.

Until recently, Trump only directed his threats at the NK army. For the past couple of decades NK has threated to kill all americans. North Korea has jailed and tortured innocent americans. Has the USA done that to North Koreans? I havent seen the USA execute North Koreans or sentence them to life long hard labor for nothing.

You can have 100 family members and friends who are vets but you will never know what war is like until you have been there. As for asking Bryan --> he is an army vet, if you didn't know it. My whole generation of grandfathers and granduncles and god knows who else from my extended family fought and died in WWII. My two great grandfathers fought in both, WWI and WWII. Still does not make me an expert on whether to attack a country or that I should ever be content of war actions.

I dont need to ask anyone. We can go around in circle on this forever but not a single person in the world needs to fight in a war to have an opinion.

And no, there is no just cause to attack NK, you can twist it how you want. Unless NK commits clear acts of war there is no reason whatsoever for a preemptive strike. The only one who keeps threatening war is the US. SK and China, direct neighbors, and all other members of the UN council clearly state relentlessly that they will never support another war on the KP and the solution can only be diplomatic.

Yes there is. What happens when your neighbor says for years they will slaughter your family? And each week the threats get more dangerous? They are held at their word, charged and sent to prison. Same with North Korea. If you want to say you will kill every american with missiles and nuclear weapons, the same applies. A country and government is meant to protect their citizens. And when threatened with death and destruction threats, they are to be taken seriously. This isnt a game of wait and see if someone is serious. When you see a dictator building a nuclear arsenal and threatening entire populated countries, its serious.

Of course China doesnt want a war on their border. I think the reasons speak for themselves. As for SK, you are wrong. They have changed their stance as the threats get more serious. Hence the increase in military drills and flyovers.

As for every country having nukes? Hypothetically speaking, I could ask why should the US be allowed to keep them? What makes them different from others?

Does the USA have classes and gatherings chanting death to IRAN? Does the USA constantly threaten to kill entire races because of religion? Does the USA have public hangings? Does the USA burn other countries flags on their streets and celebrate mass murders of american dressed figures? When a girl is raped in Iran, they blame the mother. Executing their own people including scientists because they dont share the same dark opinion of their leaders.

"Destroying Israel is muslims top priority"

Did you know one of their most recent marches included 1 million people chanting such? And they held a clock showing 8,411 more days until the destruction is Israel?

Thats the difference.


And your point about visiting Iran is moot. You arent from the west.

Well, you keep saying that CM members are posting garbage,

Trying to play gotchya again. Most of those comments is when you insult me, eyeroll emotes and use personal opinion instead of facts to argue with me. So lets not pretend otherwise

 

[Harry_BKK]

There is nothing funny. And yes you do like to play games. This attempt at gotchya is ridiculous. I searched CNN and it is not showing what you say. And my post was on sept 14th. Not sept 12th. And CNN search history shows it on the politics page on the date you claim. CNN posting something 2 days prior to my post on a buried page only further proves CNN is bias. So why on sept 14th does every news outlet have it plastered all over their front page and big bold lettering but CNN nothing? What is your reasoning for this? Because the story is done? Because they posted it 2 days earlier on a back page? I know why. Because CNN mocked Trump for making those claims that actually seem to be true. Just like they mocked Trump about wire taps. And now thats showing to be true.

You may not like it but CNN is becoming widely known as fake and a bully. Dont trust me? Trust the polls being taken.

One more time, it was on the front page on the 12th September, not buried. As for Trump's wire tap claim, that was clearly confirmed by the Justice Department that there was no such thing. Their statement reads:

"Both FBI and NSD (National Security Division) confirm that they have no records related to wiretaps as described by the March 4, 2017 tweets,"

You probably refer to Manafort being wire tapped which had nothing to do whatsoever with Trump. And that was done after FISA approved it, hence their was clear evidence or at least probable cause to authorize it.


There is no reason for it. No act of hate or crime deserves death and suffering threats to an entire country.

Until recently, Trump only directed his threats at the NK army. For the past couple of decades NK has threated to kill all americans. North Korea has jailed and tortured innocent americans. Has the USA done that to North Koreans? I havent seen the USA execute North Koreans or sentence them to life long hard labor for nothing.


I dont need to ask anyone. We can go around in circle on this forever but not a single person in the world needs to fight in a war to have an opinion.


Yes there is. What happens when your neighbor says for years they will slaughter your family? And each week the threats get more dangerous? They are held at their word, charged and sent to prison. Same with North Korea. If you want to say you will kill every american with missiles and nuclear weapons, the same applies. A country and government is meant to protect their citizens. And when threatened with death and destruction threats, they are to be taken seriously. This isnt a game of wait and see if someone is serious. When you see a dictator building a nuclear arsenal and threatening entire populated countries, its serious.

Of course China doesnt want a war on their border. I think the reasons speak for themselves. As for SK, you are wrong. They have changed their stance as the threats get more serious. Hence the increase in military drills and flyovers.

The SK PM on 18th August 2017:

'But Moon stressed:

“I will prevent war at all cost.”

“I want all South Koreans to believe with confidence that there will be no war,” he told a press conference marking his first 100 days in office.

The US has been the South’s security guarantor since the end of the Korean War in 1953, which left the peninsula divided and technically still in a state of conflict with no peace treaty signed.

Washington has 28,500 troops stationed in the country to protect it from the North.

Moon, however, said Seoul effectively had a veto on military action by the US.'

or here:

'South Korea pledged Thursday that there would be no war on the Korean peninsula.
South Korea's President Moon Jae-In moved to reassure his citizens that Seoul has an effective veto on US military action, after weeks of sabre-rattling from both US President Donald Trump and the North's Kim Jong-Un.


So where, in your view, has SK changed its stance???


Does the USA have classes and gatherings chanting death to IRAN? Does the USA constantly threaten to kill entire races because of religion? Does the USA have public hangings? Does the USA burn other countries flags on their streets and celebrate mass murders of american dressed figures? When a girl is raped in Iran, they blame the mother. Executing their own people including scientists because they dont share the same dark opinion of their leaders.

"Destroying Israel is muslims top priority"

Did you know one of their most recent marches included 1 million people chanting such? And they held a clock showing 8,411 more days until the destruction is Israel?

Thats the difference.
Again, the US pushed the Iran towards this stance and that was minutely planned by the top level of the US government. Read again: Coup d'Etat 1953 and following years as to why the Shah became so hated in his own country and made the rise of Khomeini possible.


And your point about visiting Iran is moot. You arent from the west.
I was in Iran with a German passport. Although born in Romania, I was part of the German minority and after emigrating in 1984 became a full German citizen as any other German.
Next.


Trying to play gotchya again. Most of those comments is when you insult me, eyeroll emotes and use personal opinion instead of facts to argue with me. So lets not pretend otherwise
I made the effort to read this whole thread again in the last hours and no, it is not just me. You called at least 5 other CM members pathetic, posting garbage, biased, leftist and other stuff. And that is just this thread. One post stuck with me, read #334.

Answers in red and blue.

 

[Steviedoo]

Been a rough few months. Depleted all my accounts (instadebit, ecopayz and bank account) so I have been staying away from this forum. I missed it though.

Wine actually but figured goatie would prefer beer.

I'm sorry to hear. So no more gambling....

 

[slotplayer]

America is back on the racism issue. Trump ignited a firestorm. CNN/MSNBC are in orgasmic mode I bet.

Despite first amendment rights some things are just off limits for me, burning the American flag and not standing for the national anthem.
In America you can burn the flag and protest freely. In NK you (Google Otto Warmbier) get 15 years in prison for stealing a poster, that's the difference.

I have two small American flags under the passenger visor of my SUV that the petro station down the street gives out on Independence day (July 4th). I keep them there just to piss certain people off.

 

[sueyh]

Despite first amendment rights some things are just off limits for me, burning the American flag and not standing for the national anthem.

I'm not saying "not standing during national anthem" is a good thing, but a couple of months ago I believe Trump said "people has a right to show their political opinion.", even their mean to show their view was waving NAZI flags on the street, Trump clearly indicated they have a right to do so, but now he said "showing his political opinion by not standing during national anthem" is so bad that he needs to be fired? Seriously?

Which one do you think is worse? Supporting NAZI that killed thousands of innocent American people and is the worst terrorist group in the world history, or not standing during National anthem?

 

[Steviedoo]

I have two small American flags under the passenger visor of my SUV that the petro station down the street gives out on Independence day (July 4th). I keep them there just to piss certain people off.

i don't understand...why would this piss off certain ppl?

 

[Harry_BKK]

Mr. T yesterday on North Korea: "I'll fix the mess," Trump said. "We'll see what happens."

As if he can fix something. Just like with health care, the wall, tax reform and anything else when he says those two hollow phrases, the result is always --> nothing but hot air.

 

[slotplayer]

I'm not saying "not standing during national anthem" is a good thing, but a couple of months ago I believe Trump said "people has a right to show their political opinion.", even their mean to show their view was waving NAZI flags on the street, Trump clearly indicated they have a right to do so, but now he said "showing his political opinion by not standing during national anthem" is so bad that he needs to be fired? Seriously?

Which one do you think is worse? Supporting NAZI that killed thousands of innocent American people and is the worst terrorist group in the world history, or not standing during National anthem?

I think for American's the flag is first and foremost. It symbolizes so much and is one of the few symbols that binds all Americans.

Different settings, protesting on the street in public is one thing, you need a permit for that anyway, not at American Football Games during the National Anthem which is in honor of all the troops that died fighting the Nazi's, btw. You should google the background of it.

Not mention that the first amendment right does not apply to employers/employees

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

No doubt Trump mishandled the Charolsville thing or could have handled it better, but what % of it did you see, a sound byte of what your media showed you or some articles?

Watch the full press conference video. It's only 23 minutes.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Not to get technical but the media did interview a historian there just for the statue's removal.

 

[slotplayer]

i don't understand...why would this piss off certain ppl?

The terrorists and the progressive left that hate this country.

 

[sueyh]

I think for American's the flag is first and foremost. It symbolizes so much and is one of the few symbols that bind all Americans.

Different settings, protesting on the street in public is one thing, you need a permit for that anyway, not at American Football Games during the National Anthem which is in honor of all the troops that died fighting the Nazi's, btw. You should google the background of it.

Not mention that the first amendment right does not apply to employers/employees

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

No doubt Trump mishandled the Charolsville thing or could have handled it better, but what % of it did you see, a sound byte of what your media showed you or some articles?

Watch the full press conference video. It's only 23 minutes.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Not to get technically but the media did interview a historian there just for the statue's removal.

What I'm saying is that if Trump respected KKK's right to wave NAZI flag, he should respected the football player's right not to stand during National anthem, Trump should not picked on the player by saying he should be fired.

Trump could said he doesn't agree with the football player's view, but what he should not do was to deny his right, especially when he clearly accepted the KKK's right just a couple of months ago.

The football player showed disrespect to the national anthem and the national flag, I don't agree with it either, but I do not believe it cause any harm to anyone. But waving NAZI flags? What do you think Jews felt when they saw NAZI flags on the street? Can you imagine the fear they felt watching those protest?

The president is there to protect all Americans not just white people. He called it "people's right" and "ok to do" when some people caused horrible fear among USA people, but it is not ok to do when the foot ball player did something like not standing during national anthem? To be tell you the truth, I want my president rather to pick on people who cause fear to other citizens and divide country by race than to pick on the sport player just because he didn't stand during the national anthem.

 

[slotplayer]

What I'm saying is that if Trump respected KKK's right to wave NAZI flag, he should respected the football player's right not to stand during National anthem, Trump should not picked on the player by saying he should be fired.

Trump could said he doesn't agree with the football player's view, but what he should not do was to deny his right, especially when he clearly accepted the KKK's right just a couple of months ago.

The football player showed disrespect to the national anthem and the national flag, I don't agree with it either, but I do not believe it cause any harm to anyone. But waving NAZI flags? What do you think Jews felt when they saw NAZI flags on the street? Can you imagine the fear they felt watching those protest?

The president is there to protect all Americans not just white people. He called it "people's right" and "ok to do" when some people caused horrible fear among USA people, but it is not ok to do when the foot ball player did something like not standing during national anthem? To be tell you the truth, I want my president rather to pick on people who cause fear to other citizens and divide country by race than to pick on the sport player just because he didn't stand during the national anthem.

This is all part of your leftist indoctrination to make it about social justice. You see it as unjust. Trump can not do much about the NAZI flags or any other groups right to protest, even Antifa. I provided the full press conference, did you watch it? Did you hear only what you wanted to hear? Did you totally dismiss his statements? Why do some statements carry more weight than others for you? Trump is not a wordsmith. I accept it, you should to.

America is a hugely Patriotic nation and it is disrespectful to the Military that fought for the player to have the right to express his views in the first place. It is not the act, skin color or cause, it's the venue. I saw the "fire him" statement as more Trump the businessman coming out, after all at the end of the day the players are employees of the team owner.

 

[sueyh]

This is all part of your leftist indoctrination to make it about social justice. You see it as unjust. Trump can not do much about the NAZI flags or any other groups right to protest, even Antifa. I provided the full press conference, did you watch it? Did you hear only what you wanted to hear? Did you totally dismiss his statements? Why do some statements carry more weight than others for you? Trump is not a wordsmith. I accept it, you should to.

America is a hugely Patriotic nation and it is disrespectful to the Military that fought for the player to have the right to express his views in the first place. It is not the act, skin color or cause, it's the venue. I saw the "fire him" statement as more Trump the businessman coming out, after all at the end of the day the players are employees of the team owner.

First I'm not lefty like you said, I always vote for center right here and I understand there is not much Trump can do regarding KKK and NAZI flag.
All I'm saying is I don't understand as a president why he suggested to fire someone just because he didn't stand during National Anthem. As a president he shouldn't said those things.
Like he can't do anything regarding to KKK and NAZI flag, he can't do anything regarding to the sports player who doesn't stand during national anthem.

Like what KKK did was not nice but it was not illegal, what the player did was not nice but it was not illegal.

Because it was not illegal, Trump had no choice but defending KKK's action, I got that. Even though I don't like Trump I never believed Trump share the view of KKK, I'm pretty sure he disagree with KKK, but as a president he had no choice but defending them because they were not doing anything illegal regarding to the matter of NAZI flag.
Why it doesn't apply to the action of the player? Trump doesn't agree with the player's opinion, that's fine, but he should not condemn his action since what he did was not illegal.

What the player did was not wrong in legal matter but it was wrong as a moral matter, that's why Trump condemn his action? In that case, why he didn't condemn KKK's action, it might be legal to do it, but it was wrong as a moral matter.

You are right, the player was disrespectful towards the USA military people, but those KKK people was disrespectful towards Jews. I really hope you don't say American Jews don't deserve respect as much as USA military people.

 

[lockinlove]

One more time, it was on the front page on the 12th September, not buried. As for Trump's wire tap claim, that was clearly confirmed by the Justice Department that there was no such thing. Their statement reads:

So CNN search history tells me thats false. Your whatever site says otherwise? The whole point that you are completely missing is calling me a liar when its pretty clear its not a lie. If it was on the front page 2 days before I made that comment who cares? Since my comment was on Sept 14th. We can go in circles about this everyday. Im willing. Oh and btw, you should check your facts, you know claiming CNN is the only new site to post the story. This is what I mean when I say misleading and making stuff up.

The SK PM on 18th August 2017:

'But Moon stressed:

“I will prevent war at all cost.”

“I want all South Koreans to believe with confidence that there will be no war,” he told a press conference marking his first 100 days in office.

The US has been the South’s security guarantor since the end of the Korean War in 1953, which left the peninsula divided and technically still in a state of conflict with no peace treaty signed.

Washington has 28,500 troops stationed in the country to protect it from the North.

Moon, however, said Seoul effectively had a veto on military action by the US.'

or here:

'South Korea pledged Thursday that there would be no war on the Korean peninsula.
South Korea's President Moon Jae-In moved to reassure his citizens that Seoul has an effective veto on US military action, after weeks of sabre-rattling from both US President Donald Trump and the North's Kim Jong-Un.


So where, in your view, has SK changed its stance???

We all know he said this a month and a half ago. What has happened since?

Ramped up war games. South Korea flying fighter jets along site Japan and USA over North Korean waters.

President Moon also supported Trumps speech at the UN in regards to NK.

Is this what you call peaceful dialogue and how to avoid war?

"Both FBI and NSD (National Security Division) confirm that they have no records related to wiretaps as described by the March 4, 2017 tweets,"

You probably refer to Manafort being wire tapped which had nothing to do whatsoever with Trump. And that was done after FISA approved it, hence their was clear evidence or at least probable cause to authorize it.

Trump made the claim his campaign was being wiretapped. Who was Paul Manafort to Trump? What did Manafort demand about the wiretaps and the time period? Surely you know the claims. They tapped him before and after, not during?

Again, the US pushed the Iran towards this stance and that was minutely planned by the top level of the US government. Read again: Coup d'Etat 1953 and following years as to why the Shah became so hated in his own country and made the rise of Khomeini possible.

So sticking to the same excuse then? Again, something that happened 75 years ago that is quite controversial on its own, is reason to have these marches, hate speech, unjust imprisonment, torture of innocent american citizens? You say it is not a defense, so what exactly is it then?

I was in Iran with a German passport. Although born in Romania, I was part of the German minority and after emigrating in 1984 became a full German citizen as any other German.
Next.

Next? What does this prove?

I made the effort to read this whole thread again in the last hours and no, it is not just me. You called at least 5 other CM members pathetic, posting garbage, biased, leftist and other stuff. And that is just this thread. One post stuck with me, read #334.

Thank you for proving my point. You should have saved yourself time and not bothered.

Here is my post about that:

Trying to play gotchya again. Most of those comments is when you insult me, eyeroll emotes and use personal opinion instead of facts to argue with me. So lets not pretend otherwise

Lets use the word misleading here since a few pages pack you asked me what about you is misleading. So this is a perfect example.

Now when I started using the term garbage posts, can you explain the conversation, the insults thrown my way, the eyeroll emotes, claims of Trump being a racist, personal insults (drunk postin)

When asked for you and the other person to provide facts, you didnt. You instead called Trump a racist. Opinion.

personal insult/attack:

I'm not sure if you're drunk posting or not.

But I'm not going to argue with you. It clearly does not amount to anything. You can say you keep debunking and discrediting others, you clearly are the righteous voice we all need. You seem to have missed the overall idea of my posts in this thread. I'll leave it to that.

Scanning through those posts, I see myself asking for a debate and used some facts in history with references, which never got addressed either. The more I read, the more I see all the eyeroll emotes and insults actually

Here is an example. I made the claim the the majority of Finland are against having refugees. That is a discussion where the poster can reply with something to prove me wrong. It is not personal or asking for anything but conversation.

His response

This must have been just a provocation and as such is not even worth a reply

Here is me trying to call the person out and ask for only proper debate instead of calling me a drunk and other stuff

So I guess all you have are insults? Figures.

And let me know when you can use actual evidence and facts instead of other posters comments and mud slinging as your argument

So Harry. Instead of trying to pick a post here and there at least be honest about things.

 

[lockinlove]

Mr. T yesterday on North Korea: "I'll fix the mess," Trump said. "We'll see what happens."

As if he can fix something. Just like with health care, the wall, tax reform and anything else when he says those two hollow phrases, the result is always --> nothing but hot air.

View attachment 82316

Oh so now this isnt good enough for you? You get all mad when he threatens war and now you get all mad when he doesnt?

 

[lockinlove]

I'm not saying "not standing during national anthem" is a good thing, but a couple of months ago I believe Trump said "people has a right to show their political opinion.", even their mean to show their view was waving NAZI flags on the street, Trump clearly indicated they have a right to do so, but now he said "showing his political opinion by not standing during national anthem" is so bad that he needs to be fired? Seriously?

Which one do you think is worse? Supporting NAZI that killed thousands of innocent American people and is the worst terrorist group in the world history, or not standing during National anthem?

Isnt freedom of speech an amendment? In one comment you argue and say its their right to kneel and show disrespect but in the same sentence you blast Trump for using freedom of speech?

What I'm saying is that if Trump respected KKK's right to wave NAZI flag, he should respected the football player's right not to stand during National anthem, Trump should not picked on the player by saying he should be fired

Trump doesn't agree with the player's opinion, that's fine, but he should not condemn his action since what he did was not illegal

Again, since you are a big believe of rights, why are you choosing to call Trump out on his freedom of speech? Its his right to speak his mind just like its the players right to kneel.

 

[sueyh]

since you are a big believe of rights, why are you choosing to call Trump out on his freedom of speech? Its his right to speak his mind just like its the players right to kneel.

Absolutely he has a freedom of speech...I agree with you. But freedom of speech has to be fair and has to treat everybody equal...freedom of speech doesn't mean he can say whatever he wants to say.

My question is if Trump has a freedom of speech to condemn the NFL player because the player was disrespectful towards American flag and American military people, where was Trump's freedom of speech when KKK people were so disrespectful towards Jewish people?

 

[Dinahnana]

Don't bite my head off this is only my opinion on the whole stand for the national anthem situation. Firstly I have to say it has been blown totally out of control. I understand that some players are refusing to stand in protest of police brutality which is definitely an issue that many states have to deal with. We hear many things in social media about black men being shot by police and it is an outrage but where is said outrage when a police officer is killed? Standing for the national anthem in my opinion is about respect and love for your country regardless of who is in charge and what is happening. These players could find another outlet to voice their opinions.

Young people are very impressionable and could see this as an act of defiance therefore giving them reasons to do bad things. I am not saying that this could happen but I think the players need to set a good example for today's youth and maybe talk about the issue instead of insulting their country.

I am Irish and quite frankly hate a lot of the politics in my country and things that occur but I still stand for the national anthem because that means something to me. I do it because I love my country and fellow Irish people (most of them anyway). For me it's not about politics or social situation. Not standing for your country's national anthem is akin to burning your country's flag in my opinion.

Having said all that I do think that President Trump made this whole situation much worse by behaving like a child. As far as I can see he never admits that he is wrong and gets very defensive. Not a good quality in a leader. In addition I believe people are going to either love/hate whatever he does so technically he is in a lose/lose situation so maybe he ought to be quiet for a while and actually listen to his advisers. Again just my opinion peeps

 

[ternur]

personal insult/attack:

I'm not sure if you're drunk posting or not.

But I'm not going to argue with you. It clearly does not amount to anything. You can say you keep debunking and discrediting others, you clearly are the righteous voice we all need. You seem to have missed the overall idea of my posts in this thread. I'll leave it to that.

First of all lockinlove, as stated in Harry's posts, you first belittle and muck other members here, and then get insulted by what others say. What you took as an insult, was not intended as so. I think I explained this to you in the relevant part of the thread.

Since you brought it up again, I'd like to clarify -- I was not out to attack you or insult you. What I was trying to point out, is the way your opinions are voiced in the forum sometimes. They may seem condescending in some level, at least sometimes they seem that way to me. Just like my comment to you was seen by you as insulting or attacking. You might disagree with me on this one. But that was my observation at that time.

But once the intended purpose for choice of words have been settled, surely we can go back to discussing the matters of the topic?

Here is an example. I made the claim the the majority of Finland are against having refugees. That is a discussion where the poster can reply with something to prove me wrong. It is not personal or asking for anything but conversation.

His response.

This must have been just a provocation and as such is not even worth a reply.

Here is me trying to call the person out and ask for only proper debate instead of calling me a drunk and other stuff.

If you call that an invitation for a debate, you hugely (pun intended) failed in that objective. I made the comment about "drunk posting" since it appeared to me, that you did not quite think through what you posted. You threw a claim in the air about refugees in Finland without anything to back up your claim; no sources, no explanation of your opinion. That's why I saw it as a clear provocation, and nothing more.

This is not how debates work IMO. Make a claim backed with at least somekind of source or basis for your claim or opinion if you truly want to discuss matters in an educated way.

For the last time: I was not attacking you or insulting you in my previous posts.

 

[Harry_BKK]

Oh so now this isnt good enough for you? You get all mad when he threatens war and now you get all mad when he doesnt?

I suggest you read / watch his whole statement.

"If we take that option it will be devastating -- devastating -- for North Korea. It's called the military option."

His way of fixing things is throwing insults at other heads of state, US government members, other countries, the UN, the NATO and many more. So far he has not shown a single solution or proposal which showed a way forward or something of his "oh so brilliant" deal making skills.

 

[Harry_BKK]

So CNN search history tells me thats false. Your whatever site says otherwise? The whole point that you are completely missing is calling me a liar when its pretty clear its not a lie. If it was on the front page 2 days before I made that comment who cares? Since my comment was on Sept 14th. We can go in circles about this everyday. Im willing. Oh and btw, you should check your facts, you know claiming CNN is the only new site to post the story. This is what I mean when I say misleading and making stuff up.

Wayback Machine:

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......stores daily millions of page shots of any website on the internet. The article was on the front page and it disappeared from the front page after a few hours into their "politics" section as other news were posted on top.

With all due respect, you clearly lied by writing there was nothing on CNN and that it would show how biased they are. You stated a few times in past posts how much you dislike CNN, you changed/downgraded your subscription so you wouldn't be able to watch it any further. You, who wants to come across that you always state only proven facts in your posts, could have done your due diligence and would have seen within a few seconds that CNN indeed reported it.

I never claimed CNN is the only news site to post the story...yet another falsehood. Read my post again as it was the answer to your comment (quoted above my answer) as to who all had the story on their site. Any normal reader will understand my comment in that context.. So again no, not misleading.

We all know he said this a month and a half ago. What has happened since?

Ramped up war games. South Korea flying fighter jets along site Japan and USA over North Korean waters.

They have been flying those joint missions for years if not decades.

President Moon also supported Trumps speech at the UN in regards to NK.

What else do you expect?

Is this what you call peaceful dialogue and how to avoid war?



Trump made the claim his campaign was being wiretapped. Who was Paul Manafort to Trump? What did Manafort demand about the wiretaps and the time period? Surely you know the claims. They tapped him before and after, not during?



So sticking to the same excuse then? Again, something that happened 75 years ago that is quite controversial on its own, is reason to have these marches, hate speech, unjust imprisonment, torture of innocent american citizens? You say it is not a defense, so what exactly is it then?

It is not 75 years ago, the years until Khomeini came to power were heavily influenced by the US. And the US was the first to run to the UN council the soon the Iranians ousted the Shah asking for sanctions to be imposed. Again, read the whole history to understand. Accusing Iran of threatening the US and Israel without putting it in context is just baseless propaganda from your side.


Next? What does this prove?

You said my point was moot by stating i wasn't from the West. Well, I am and I was treated with the utmost respect at any time when visiting the country.



Thank you for proving my point. You should have saved yourself time and not bothered.

Here is my post about that:



Lets use the word misleading here since a few pages pack you asked me what about you is misleading. So this is a perfect example.

Now when I started using the term garbage posts, can you explain the conversation, the insults thrown my way, the eyeroll emotes, claims of Trump being a racist, personal insults (drunk postin)

When asked for you and the other person to provide facts, you didnt. You instead called Trump a racist. Opinion.

personal insult/attack:



Scanning through those posts, I see myself asking for a debate and used some facts in history with references, which never got addressed either. The more I read, the more I see all the eyeroll emotes and insults actually

Here is an example. I made the claim the the majority of Finland are against having refugees. That is a discussion where the poster can reply with something to prove me wrong. It is not personal or asking for anything but conversation.

His response



Here is me trying to call the person out and ask for only proper debate instead of calling me a drunk and other stuff



So Harry. Instead of trying to pick a post here and there at least be honest about things.

I am honest and straightforward, don't know about you. Or shall I start quoting your posts with insulting language and belittling words? As to "personal insult/attack" --> that is a very subjective matter, everyone defines that for him/herself.

Answers in red again.

 

[slotplayer]

First I'm not lefty like you said, I always vote for center right here and I understand there is not much Trump can do regarding KKK and NAZI flag.
All I'm saying is I don't understand as a president why he suggested to fire someone just because he didn't stand during National Anthem. As a president he shouldn't said those things.
Like he can't do anything regarding to KKK and NAZI flag, he can't do anything regarding to the sports player who doesn't stand during national anthem.

Like what KKK did was not nice but it was not illegal, what the player did was not nice but it was not illegal.

Because it was not illegal, Trump had no choice but defending KKK's action, I got that. Even though I don't like Trump I never believed Trump share the view of KKK, I'm pretty sure he disagree with KKK, but as a president he had no choice but defending them because they were not doing anything illegal regarding to the matter of NAZI flag.
Why it doesn't apply to the action of the player? Trump doesn't agree with the player's opinion, that's fine, but he should not condemn his action since what he did was not illegal.

What the player did was not wrong in legal matter but it was wrong as a moral matter, that's why Trump condemn his action? In that case, why he didn't condemn KKK's action, it might be legal to do it, but it was wrong as a moral matter.

You are right, the player was disrespectful towards the USA military people, but those KKK people was disrespectful towards Jews. I really hope you don't say American Jews don't deserve respect as much as USA military people.

Everyone deserves equal respect.

The whole issue was pretty much dying down before Trump blurted as it all occurred last season and the player that started it is not on any team right now.

Yes, Trump was against the player as a moral matter. The player was using the time reserved to honor the Military, the Flag and the Countries Freedoms (during the playing of national anthem) to air his personal grievance with what he feels is a social injustice (too many white police shootings of young black men) . Fans go to the games or watch them to escape politics, it was considered the wrong stage for it and it did not sit well with too many people.

 

[sueyh]

Yes, Trump was against the player as a moral matter. The player was using the time reserved to honor the Military, the Flag and the Countries Freedoms (during the playing of national anthem) to air his personal grievance with what he feels is a social injustice (too many white police shootings of young black men) . Fans go to the games or watch them to escape politics, it was considered the wrong stage for it and it did not sit well with too many people.

Why Trump was not against KKK as a moral matter? KKK misused the right to protest against bring down the statue to attack Jews by shouting "Jews are not going to replace us" and waving NAZI flags. I'm pretty sure the reason why political protest is allowed is not because to give people the right to insult a certain race. What KKK did not sit well with too many people either. So why Trump chose to be silent towards KKK, but is not silent towards the NFL player?

I just don't think that is a good quality as a president, that's all.

 

[slotplayer]

Why Trump was not against KKK as a moral matter? KKK misused the right to protest against bring down the statue to attack Jews by shouting "Jews are not going to replace us" and waving NAZI flags. I'm pretty sure the reason why political protest is allowed is not because to give people the right to insult a certain race. What KKK did not sit well with too many people either. So why Trump chose to be silent towards KKK, but is not silent towards the NFL player?

I just don't think that is a good quality as a president, that's all.

Unfortunately, hate speech is protected under the 1'st amendment to the constitution. That is why they could say "Jews are not going to replace us." America emphasizes liberties, Europe equality and with good historical reason. The left progressives here want to transpose the country to that of equality over liberties.

Here's some hate speech for you from Obama's pastor.

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Your'e still picking and choosing statements and timelines to suit your position.
The player did what he did 13 months ago. Trump said nothing that I know of in all those months yet no lefties demanded the president say something.

Trump originally botched the KKK issue but came out the next day with a full statement condemning the various groups as indicated in the Google screen shot below or these excerpts from reuters news.

Democrats and Republicans criticized Trump for waiting too long to address the violence - his first major crisis on the domestic front that he has faced as president - and for failing when he did speak out to explicitly condemn white-supremacist marchers who ignited the melee.

Trump on Saturday initially denounced what he called “this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides.”


On Sunday, however, the White House added: “The president said very strongly in his statement yesterday that he condemns all forms of violence, bigotry, and hatred, and of course that includes white supremacists, KKK, neo-Nazi, and all extremist groups. He called for national unity and bringing all Americans together.”

 

[ladyhawke]

...
Your'e still picking and choosing statements and timelines to suit your position.

Trump originally botched the KKK issue but came out the next day with a full statement condemning the various groups as indicated in the Google screen shot below or these excerpts from reuters news.d: “The president said very strongly in his statement yesterday that he condemns all forms of violence, bigotry, and hatred, and of course that includes white supremacists, KKK, neo-Nazi, and all extremist groups. He called for national unity and bringing all Americans together.”

is this not what you are also doing? All those glorious quotes, but you did not include any references to his Trump Tower speech on August 15th. Should you not have also included some of those for balance?

 

[slotplayer]

is this not what you are also doing? All those glorious quotes, but you did not include any references to his Trump Tower speech on August 15th. Should you not have also included some of those for balance?

you mean this one, if so, I posted a link to it in post #770. I just could not find the full video at the time so referenced the video in the article.

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[Harry_BKK]

Trump made the claim his campaign was being wiretapped. Who was Paul Manafort to Trump? What did Manafort demand about the wiretaps and the time period? Surely you know the claims. They tapped him before and after, not during?

Trump claimed his tower was tapped, not his campaign. And that it was on Obama's order. Both were pure lies that have been confirmed by the justice department. Again you are trying to twist the facts by saying, quote: "Just like they mocked Trump about wire taps. And now thats showing to be true."

It is not true. Nowhere has it been confirmed that the Trump Tower was tapped, which of Manafort's residences have been tapped, whether it was during the campaign etc. Nor is there any evidence that Obama ordered it.

The initial FISA order to tap Manafort goes back to 2014, long before Mr.T became a candidate.

 

[Harry_BKK]

We all know he said this a month and a half ago. What has happened since?

Ramped up war games. South Korea flying fighter jets along site Japan and USA over North Korean waters.

President Moon also supported Trumps speech at the UN in regards to NK.

Is this what you call peaceful dialogue and how to avoid war?

Read Moon's statement from yesterday:

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That is what i call peaceful diplomacy and avoiding war. Or can you see any of the inflammatory words MR. T has been using all the time? Again, the only one using war threats all the time is the US, nobody else.

 

[slotplayer]

Secret State - Inside North Korea - CNN

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BBC Panorama - North Korea Undercover

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[lockinlove]

First of all lockinlove, as stated in Harry's posts, you first belittle and muck other members here, and then get insulted by what others say. What you took as an insult, was not intended as so. I think I explained this to you in the relevant part of the thread.

Since you brought it up again, I'd like to clarify -- I was not out to attack you or insult you. What I was trying to point out, is the way your opinions are voiced in the forum sometimes. They may seem condescending in some level, at least sometimes they seem that way to me. Just like my comment to you was seen by you as insulting or attacking. You might disagree with me on this one. But that was my observation at that time.

But once the intended purpose for choice of words have been settled, surely we can go back to discussing the matters of the topic?




If you call that an invitation for a debate, you hugely (pun intended) failed in that objective. I made the comment about "drunk posting" since it appeared to me, that you did not quite think through what you posted. You threw a claim in the air about refugees in Finland without anything to back up your claim; no sources, no explanation of your opinion. That's why I saw it as a clear provocation, and nothing more.

This is not how debates work IMO. Make a claim backed with at least somekind of source or basis for your claim or opinion if you truly want to discuss matters in an educated way.

For the last time: I was not attacking you or insulting you in my previous posts.

When you call someone a drunk poster when they havent said they are, its an insult. Dont backpedal or try and make excuses. And just because you say it, doesnt make it true. I can play that game to. I can say things to you and then say wow wow wow. Thats not an insult! Sorry if you take it as such!

And instead to trying to high five each other thinking it will make your posts and claims to be more legitimate, you're wrong. I can start doing that with the posters in here that dont agree with you two also

I dont need to back it up. If you dont believe me, it is your duty to ask me clarify it or provide proof. You did not.

Lets look at how a debate actually works.

Debate:

a formal discussion on a particular topic in a public meeting or legislative assembly, in which opposing arguments are put forward.

As for your last comment. Is calling someone a drunk an educated conversation? Oh boy pot meet kettle with your entire post.

Now, if you would like to address anything I have said please quote me and we can debate all you want. If you call me a drunk, mock me or bait me anymore I will simply ignore it. Try having a proper discussion.

 

[lockinlove]

I suggest you read / watch his whole statement.

"If we take that option it will be devastating -- devastating -- for North Korea. It's called the military option."

His way of fixing things is throwing insults at other heads of state, US government members, other countries, the UN, the NATO and many more. So far he has not shown a single solution or proposal which showed a way forward or something of his "oh so brilliant" deal making skills.

But your post didnt say anything of the sort.

You had a problem with him saying the word fixing. Why would I have to assume otherwise?

So far he has had China pressure them and put more sanctions on him. But you are making the point for us all. Nk cannot be reasoned with no matter the case.

 

[lockinlove]

Wayback Machine:

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......stores daily millions of page shots of any website on the internet. The article was on the front page and it disappeared from the front page after a few hours into their "politics" section as other news were posted on top.

With all due respect, you clearly lied by writing there was nothing on CNN and that it would show how biased they are. You stated a few times in past posts how much you dislike CNN, you changed/downgraded your subscription so you wouldn't be able to watch it any further. You, who wants to come across that you always state only proven facts in your posts, could have done your due diligence and would have seen within a few seconds that CNN indeed reported it.

Exactly.

So a huge story that was on the front page everywhere else for many days, was on CNN for a couple hours the stuffed to the back page. We get it, they are bias.

With all due respect, you are wrong. Once again. My post was on sept 14th. There is nothing further than the truth. That is backed up by your site and CNN search.

I never claimed CNN is the only news site to post the story...yet another falsehood. Read my post again as it was the answer to your comment (quoted above my answer) as to who all had the story on their site. Any normal reader will understand my comment in that context.. So again no, not misleading.

"So CNN reports it 2 days earlier than all the other outlets"

That is false. So yes it is misleading

They have been flying those joint missions for years if not decades.

The pentagon stated this joint flight was the closest they have ever flown in regards to NK in the 21st century. So no, this hasnt been happening for decades.

What else do you expect?

A few days ago you made a claim no country in the world took his comments seriously.

"No political leader in this world will take Trump serious. They will just say: " Oh let the "rump" do his rumblings, we'll carry on without him"

You said my point was moot by stating i wasn't from the West. Well, I am and I was treated with the utmost respect at any time when visiting the country.

Are we talking about Iran and Germany or Iran and the USA?

I am honest and straightforward, don't know about you. Or shall I start quoting your posts with insulting language and belittling words? As to "personal insult/attack" --> that is a very subjective matter, everyone defines that for him/herself.

Isnt that what you are doing?

 

[lockinlove]

Trump claimed his tower was tapped, not his campaign. And that it was on Obama's order. Both were pure lies that have been confirmed by the justice department. Again you are trying to twist the facts by saying, quote: "Just like they mocked Trump about wire taps. And now thats showing to be true."

It is not true. Nowhere has it been confirmed that the Trump Tower was tapped, which of Manafort's residences have been tapped, whether it was during the campaign etc. Nor is there any evidence that Obama ordered it.

The initial FISA order to tap Manafort goes back to 2014, long before Mr.T became a candidate.

When Trump claims his tower and phones have been tapped "during the election" this is him stating his campaign was tapped.

Also from BBC

After the 2014 warrant ended, it was renewed again until earlier this year, in order to allow the FBI to investigate ties between Trump campaign associates and suspected Russian operatives.

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So yeah im not twisting anything.

 

[interlog]

The question begs why the heck did Trump pass comment on that football player. It sometimes is best to keep your mouth shut rather than have all this palaver.

 

[ternur]

When you call someone a drunk poster when they havent said they are, its an insult. Dont backpedal or try and make excuses. And just because you say it, doesnt make it true. I can play that game to. I can say things to you and then say wow wow wow. Thats not an insult! Sorry if you take it as such!

I was not backpedalling or trying to make excuses. I explained how I viewed the situation.

I dont need to back it up. If you dont believe me, it is your duty to ask me clarify it or provide proof. You did not.

I have no such duty whatsoever. If you make a claim, please make a reasoned one. Otherwise it's just an allegation without foundation. Not much to debate about.

Lets look at how a debate actually works.

Debate:

a formal discussion on a particular topic in a public meeting or legislative assembly, in which opposing arguments are put forward.

You posted a topic, nothing more.

As for your last comment. Is calling someone a drunk an educated conversation? Oh boy pot meet kettle with your entire post.

No it is not. I was referring you making a claim without any reasoning behind it, and to you that was "asking for debate". To me it was not.

Now, if you would like to address anything I have said please quote me and we can debate all you want. If you call me a drunk, mock me or bait me anymore I will simply ignore it. Try having a proper discussion.

I will. I'd like you to do the same.

 

[lockinlove]

Absolutely he has a freedom of speech...I agree with you. But freedom of speech has to be fair and has to treat everybody equal...freedom of speech doesn't mean he can say whatever he wants to say.

My question is if Trump has a freedom of speech to condemn the NFL player because the player was disrespectful towards American flag and American military people, where was Trump's freedom of speech when KKK people were so disrespectful towards Jewish people?

I think when he first addressed it he was stating that both sides need to stop with the violence. Just because someone is a racist, it doesnt mean that gives anyone else the right to attack them.

He also doesnt like giving into the media so when they erupted with how dare Trump not condemn the KKK but instead tell both sides to settle down, the media tried to make it look like Trump was a racist.

Even though, dozens of times in the last 25 years trump has called out the KKK.

As for players kneeling during that anthem, I find it disturbing to say the least. And I am glad that many other sports figures are coming out against it and saying they would never do that or agree with it. If you want to stand up for racism or have ill feelings towards the president. Go get your protesting shorts on, grab your sign, write a letter, write on twitter, talk to the news. Do all of those things. But disrespecting the flag and anthem that has everything to do with the men and woman who died so it can be raised and sung, is completely wrong.

 

[lockinlove]

I was not backpedalling or trying to make excuses. I explained how I viewed the situation.



I have no such duty whatsoever. If you make a claim, please make a reasoned one. Otherwise it's just an allegation without foundation. Not much to debate about.



You posted a topic, nothing more.



No it is not. I was referring you making a claim without any reasoning behind it, and to you that was "asking for debate". To me it was not.



I will. I'd like you to do the same.

In all honesty, I was over it. And bringing it up wasnt trying to call you out. it was my defense when Harry tried using an example from the next page where I said a post was garbage or something. So I just wanted to show the entire conversation and where it resulted from.

I can post whatever I want. The debate begins when someone disagrees with it or asks for proof. I do not need to post proof everytime I post. If my claim is not accepted and Im called out on, then that is when it is specified and referenced.

So when I say Finland is against the Syrian refugees or whatever the conversation was. What is the proper way to respond to that if you dont agree? Mock someone and say I dont care for this comment. Or say hey show me some proof of that? I choose number 2

 

[lockinlove]

Read Moon's statement from yesterday:

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That is what i call peaceful diplomacy and avoiding war. Or can you see any of the inflammatory words MR. T has been using all the time? Again, the only one using war threats all the time is the US, nobody else.

But what he is saying and what he is doing is two different things. We see this all the time with leaders of countries. Someone who wants peace, does not fly fighter jets close to NK, ramp up war games etc. Someone who wants peace and to avoid war at all costs, would not participate in these aggressive maneuvers

 

[ternur]

In all honesty, I was over it. And bringing it up wasnt trying to call you out. it was my defense when Harry tried using an example from the next page where I said a post was garbage or something. So I just wanted to show the entire conversation and where it resulted from.

I can post whatever I want. The debate begins when someone disagrees with it or asks for proof. I do not need to post proof everytime I post. If my claim is not accepted and Im called out on, then that is when it is specified and referenced.

So when I say Finland is against the Syrian refugees or whatever the conversation was. What is the proper way to respond to that if you dont agree? Mock someone and say I dont care for this comment. Or say hey show me some proof of that? I choose number 2

Since you brought it up anyway, I thought I should reply to it. I honestly got the impression, that it had bothered you, so I wanted to clarify.

As for the refugees in Finland topic. I took it as something different than just a conversation starter. Probably that's the reason for my somewhat ill-advised response.