My paranoid thoughts about Netents table games.

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Okay for the 10. time I promised myself never again to play any of Netents tablegames after having a pretty bad and annoying run at Guts.

I guess my overall payout haven't been that bad, but when playing their Caribbean stud poker i do get the feeling that it is more of a slot game than a game that are supposed to be played with a deck of cards. The reason for this is all the almost hits where I miss one card from getting the flush or straight again and again and again. One can expect a flush in around 1 of 500 hands. and I aint gonna say anything about that. But according to my drunkish calculations one can also expect to hit a flush in roughly 1/5 times after having hit the first 4 of one suit. And in my experience after a few thousand hands thats not the case in my experince.

Just for the fun of it I decided to take records of the outcome of around 360 hands which obviously is too small to prove anything, but as my gut feeling was I hit 4 of a suit in 14(5,5%) of the hands, and of those I hit the flush once.

I also played a bit of Blackjack, but gave it up after the dealer managed to hit 21 4 of 4 times when the upcard was 3.

Obviously this doesen't prove a shite, but each time i play these damn tablegames i feel they act more like a slot game, being juiced up with alot of "almost hits", rather than acting like a card game..

So just wondered if anyone got any similar experiences?
 
Probably just bad run? Just bad swing...
Or netent table games defeat players.
Nobody knows except netent.
 
I've had my fair share of playtime with Microgaming and NetEnt blackjack as far table games concerned. I think the RTP might make sense in the end, but the games are a poor reflection of the actual live format if you ask me. It's almost like they just keep you busy, without actually allowing you to make a big enough profit. I never really felt comfortable playing those games, even when you have strong hands like 20 vs. 5-6. The dealer's hands just match up nicely too many times to be anywhere near convenient.

It's really hard to make a profit or even double up your deposit. That's why I rather prefer playing live online blackjack. Apart from the occassional delay, nothing really annoys me and I do manage to make decent profit every now and then.

But even with live games weird runs do happen, and that's just back luck. For instance, I lost 2k playing live roulette when betting approx. 100 euro per spin combined on 16-18 numbers. The Latvian lady managed to spin none of my numbers in more than 20 spins. I could not believe what the hell happened lol, but I didn't scream rigged or anything. Shit happens...:oops:
 
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I've had my fair share of playtime with Microgaming and NetEnt blackjack as far table games concerned. I think the RTP might make sense in the end, but the games are a poor reflection of the actual live format if you ask me. It's almost like they just keep you busy, without actually every make a big enough profit. I never really felt comfortable playing those games, even when you have strong hands like 20 vs. 5-6. The dealer's hands just match up nicely too many times to be anywhere near convenient.

It's really hard to make a profit or even double up your deposit. That's why I rather prefer playing live online blackjack. Apart from the occassional delay, nothing really annoys me and I do manage to make decent profit every now and then.

But even with live games weird runs do happen, and that's just back luck. For instance, I lost 2k playing live roulette when betting approx. 100 euro per spin combined on 16-18 numbers. The Latvian lady managed to spin none of my numbers in more than 20 spins. I could not believe what the hell happened lol, but I didn't scream rigged or anything. Shit happens...:oops:
If i was you, i blame Latvia.
 
If i was you, i blame Latvia.

Lol...well not only bad runs happen. I also remember runs from turning a 20euro deposit into 3k from a different Latvian lady.:thumbsup: But I've always found live online roulette a dangerous game, because it's very easy to hit that 'repeat' or 'double' button each time. While in a land based casino you definitely have more self-control when it comes to placing chips on the table.
 
Okay for the 10. time I promised myself never again to play any of Netents tablegames after having a pretty bad and annoying run at Guts.

I guess my overall payout haven't been that bad, but when playing their Caribbean stud poker i do get the feeling that it is more of a slot game than a game that are supposed to be played with a deck of cards. The reason for this is all the almost hits where I miss one card from getting the flush or straight again and again and again. One can expect a flush in around 1 of 500 hands. and I aint gonna say anything about that. But according to my drunkish calculations one can also expect to hit a flush in roughly 1/5 times after having hit the first 4 of one suit. And in my experience after a few thousand hands thats not the case in my experince.

Just for the fun of it I decided to take records of the outcome of around 360 hands which obviously is too small to prove anything, but as my gut feeling was I hit 4 of a suit in 14(5,5%) of the hands, and of those I hit the flush once.

I also played a bit of Blackjack, but gave it up after the dealer managed to hit 21 4 of 4 times when the upcard was 3.

Obviously this doesen't prove a shite, but each time i play these damn tablegames i feel they act more like a slot game, being juiced up with alot of "almost hits", rather than acting like a card game..

So just wondered if anyone got any similar experiences?

Yes, and that's why I stay away from simulated card-table games. They DO pay a RTP similar to the real B&M games, but the way they do it DOES reflect the more dramatic peaks and troughs in RTP you get from slots, that you wouldn't usually see in real card games. If you were playing B&M the peaks would be less pronounced. Unfortunately on these simulated card games, the troughs have a habit of looking completely ridiculous exemplified as you say by the dealer or winning player having a silly amount of 'luck' that would have people shaking their heads if it were to happen at a B&M casino.
Don't forget online BJ cannot spot card-counters like land casinos can and do. Therefore the online BJ probably has a shoe of hundreds of decks to prevent this, while land (b&m) casinos have a shoe from 2-8 decks. This alone would count for more pronounced peaks and troughs than an experienced player would see in a b&m.
 
Stay away from Netent Table Games. They are bloody rigged as hell and suck you dry. They are thiefs and prison is the right place were they should be.
 
Table games aren't my thing but the only couple of times I have played them was at 3Dice and a B&M in Las Vegas. If I were to play table games again I would play them at 3Dice. I wouldn't play them anywhere else.
 
Yes, and that's why I stay away from simulated card-table games. They DO pay a RTP similar to the real B&M games, but the way they do it DOES reflect the more dramatic peaks and troughs in RTP you get from slots, that you wouldn't usually see in real card games. If you were playing B&M the peaks would be less pronounced. Unfortunately on these simulated card games, the troughs have a habit of looking completely ridiculous exemplified as you say by the dealer or winning player having a silly amount of 'luck' that would have people shaking their heads if it were to happen at a B&M casino.
Don't forget online BJ cannot spot card-counters like land casinos can and do. Therefore the online BJ probably has a shoe of hundreds of decks to prevent this, while land (b&m) casinos have a shoe from 2-8 decks. This alone would count for more pronounced peaks and troughs than an experienced player would see in a b&m.

Another very important aspect is the hands per hour.

Online play is much faster than live play, and hence the variations will be more obvious/pronounced.

It's tough to compare the two without doing a comparison over a HUGE number of hands.

It's quite common for players to develop misconceptions based purely on hand rate.

Even though table games aren't slots, they still have a TRTP.....and, as such, will achieve that figure over time I.e. the faster the hands are completed, the faster your results will gravitate towards the TRTP purely because you're playing more hands. The reality is that online casinos don't need to program their table games to be like slots, because the odds offered make 100% random cards highly profitable without it. Deepening the peaks and troughs doesn't help either party, as the only number that matters to the house is the TRTP.
 
Stay away from Netent Table Games. They are bloody rigged as hell and suck you dry. They are thiefs and prison is the right place were they should be.

Could you share the data you have collected with us please?

You obviously have detailed logs of 100,000+ hands at minimum, otherwise you couldn't accurately make such a statement.

Uncovering this terrible blight upon the player community would be a great service to us all.
 
the thing is whatever evidence i would bring , the casino say its random. online poker the same.

just make a test, take some little money go to a Netent Table

-Roulette: bet 50 cent on red and just push replay button. its amazing how often black and zero will come up. If you win in the beginning the longer you play the much harder to win. it seems the software knows your bets. I´m 100% sure it is not random at all

- Pontoon: crazy how often the dealer get higher hand
- Double Exposure Blackjack : dealer get very very often 20 and 21 starting hand
- Punto Blanco : Dealer Dealer Zero Zero Player Player almost every time the same
- triple chance hi lo: take bets on low risk and guess what there will come up exactly what you dont need. every time!


nuff said. my opinion if this all would be random the casino would get dry by the players because with a little skill you can beat them easy at table games but i know (my feeling tells me that) they rig the games and thats the reason a Online Casino is at the end always the winner.

thanks and stop blabla stop whining blabla
 
the thing is whatever evidence i would bring , the casino say its random. online poker the same.

just make a test, take some little money go to a Netent Table

-Roulette: bet 50 cent on red and just push replay button. its amazing how often black and zero will come up. If you win in the beginning the longer you play the much harder to win. it seems the software knows your bets. I´m 100% sure it is not random at all

- Pontoon: crazy how often the dealer get higher hand
- Double Exposure Blackjack : dealer get very very often 20 and 21 starting hand
- Punto Blanco : Dealer Dealer Zero Zero Player Player almost every time the same
- triple chance hi lo: take bets on low risk and guess what there will come up exactly what you dont need. every time!


nuff said. my opinion if this all would be random the casino would get dry by the players because with a little skill you can beat them easy at table games but i know (my feeling tells me that) they rig the games and thats the reason a Online Casino is at the end always the winner.

thanks and stop blabla stop whining blabla

lrgz.jpg
 
the thing is whatever evidence i would bring , the casino say its random. online poker the same.

just make a test, take some little money go to a Netent Table

-Roulette: bet 50 cent on red and just push replay button. its amazing how often black and zero will come up. If you win in the beginning the longer you play the much harder to win. it seems the software knows your bets. I´m 100% sure it is not random at all

- Pontoon: crazy how often the dealer get higher hand
- Double Exposure Blackjack : dealer get very very often 20 and 21 starting hand
- Punto Blanco : Dealer Dealer Zero Zero Player Player almost every time the same
- triple chance hi lo: take bets on low risk and guess what there will come up exactly what you dont need. every time!


nuff said. my opinion if this all would be random the casino would get dry by the players because with a little skill you can beat them easy at table games but i know (my feeling tells me that) they rig the games and thats the reason a Online Casino is at the end always the winner.

thanks and stop blabla stop whining blabla

Translation:

"If I win there's no problem. If I lose, it's rigged. I have no idea about how casino games work, but I play them all the same. I believe random games with a house edge should be easily beatable...if they aren't, it's rigged. I lost my money, which proves the games are rigged".
 
you need to support the casino , maybe you work for them. i can understand that. if i would work for an OC i would tell my customers that everything is fair. the cash cow is you best friend...

do you have a card deck at home? take it and play Black Jack or Baccarat or just Tex Hold em , then you know what random is. and if you have a good strategy you can ALWAYS beat the games because there are percentages and in the long run you can not lose.

thats the problem for a casino, they need to rig the games to level the percentages.

have a nice life ...:drink:
 
you need to support the casino , maybe you work for them. i can understand that. if i would work for an OC i would tell my customers that everything is fair. the cash cow is you best friend...

do you have a card deck at home? take it and play Black Jack or Baccarat or just Tex Hold em , then you know what random is. and if you have a good strategy you can ALWAYS beat the games because there are percentages and in the long run you can not lose.

thats the problem for a casino, they need to rig the games to level the percentages.

have a nice life ...:drink:

That isn't quite true. Casinos already have a built in edge through an honest game design. That's where RTP comes into play. Players are already familiar with this aspect of the various games and is considered common knowledge . There's simply no reason for a reputable casino to 'fix' anything. Random luck and an honest game address all these.

As for the ability to always beat the games, if this were true, there wouldn't be casinos. They'd all have folded long ago.
 
That isn't quite true. Casinos already have a built in edge through an honest game design. That's where RTP comes into play. Players are already familiar with this aspect of the various games and is considered common knowledge . There's simply no reason for a reputable casino to 'fix' anything. Random luck and an honest game address all these.

As for the ability to always beat the games, if this were true, there wouldn't be casinos. They'd all have folded long ago.

Yes and if Casinos was always cheating their players then they would not have any players :thumbsup:
 
you need to support the casino , maybe you work for them. i can understand that. if i would work for an OC i would tell my customers that everything is fair. the cash cow is you best friend...

do you have a card deck at home? take it and play Black Jack or Baccarat or just Tex Hold em , then you know what random is. and if you have a good strategy you can ALWAYS beat the games because there are percentages and in the long run you can not lose.

thats the problem for a casino, they need to rig the games to level the percentages.

have a nice life ...:drink:

Thank you for confirming that you have absolutely no idea whatsoever about how casino games work.

It ain't me who's the large milking animal with a big dollar sign on it. You're the casino owner's dream...you think games with a house edge are beatable.
 
you need to support the casino , maybe you work for them...
Who you talking to? Better not be me.

I asked you to provide evidence of cheating. Anecdotal observations? This is not evidence. If you are willing to make bold claims, you need to back it up with proof - not counter-accusations.
 
Seriously dude. With what money did they build Las Vegas ?
All the money the casinos lost on card games, I guess ?
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

Apart from that, the only way I'll ever play a card game, is with a deck of cards, eye to eye, and my sixshooter strapped on my hip, purely based on gut feeling about e-cards. Thankfully my gut feeling is good enough for me, to have saved me a shitload of money ;)

you need to support the casino , maybe you work for them. i can understand that. if i would work for an OC i would tell my customers that everything is fair. the cash cow is you best friend...

do you have a card deck at home? take it and play Black Jack or Baccarat or just Tex Hold em , then you know what random is. and if you have a good strategy you can ALWAYS beat the games because there are percentages and in the long run you can not lose.

thats the problem for a casino, they need to rig the games to level the percentages.

have a nice life ...:drink:
 
obv every casino game or for that matter gambling activity gives the house an edge, there is no game in this world which would have an RTP of over 100%!!! You are bound to lose to the house. In games where skill does pay a part like poker the house takes the rake to still win something.

In the end every casino wins, even if it's a million $$ jackpot that money has already been deducted by the millions of bets players have made....

What I'm trying to say is casinos don't need to rig games to win, it is so by design...they have the edge always. Any casino that would be stupid enough to rig would not be afloat for a long time.....
 
I stick to Live Black Jack. I wouldn't play Black Jack with results that are generated by a computer. I'm sure it returns the expected RTP but IMO it's just far to streaky. Just spend the little extra per hand and play live instead. Not only will you have peace of mind knowing that your getting a fair game (let's face it playing against a computer you will always be second guessing the software) but you will have more fun playing live as it's a more interactive experience...

Good luck at the tables :)
 

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