Microgaming casinos leaving UK market

[jibbajabba]

Has anybody heard anything about this?

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Cliffs / TLDR : Most MG casinos will leave the UK market and only a small number with UK licenses will stay. Any input from 32Red and other MG reps here?

 

[Captain Chaos]

It's not entirely surprising given the new legislation coming into force soon. I cannot see 32red exiting the UK market. I'd imagine a large chunk of their revenue comes from us. Those who care about the UK market will surely just apply for UK license and then continue I would have thought? There was always going to be an exodus initially. The true test will be which companies chose to apply and come back. My thoughts are that we will probably see an exit of the smallerr names and the big names will continue. Will there be a restriction of choice? Of course. Will it be bad? Who knows. We may not know the true extent of how this will affect the online gambling market in the UK for some time afterwards. The chances are we could see a lot of UK only versions of these casinos. We won't really know till it happens though.

Does anyone know how this new tax will be funded though? Will the casino take the hit or will the RTP be altered to reflect? Any thoughts?

 

[jetset]

Microgaming has a very significant and well established presence in England and on the Isle of Man, and some of its top licensees are active in the UK market.

The operators will bear the brunt of these new taxes if they wish to access and advertise to a maturing and lucrative market, and I imagine will inevitably have to pass some of that on somehow.

There are repercussions for the software providers too in respect of UK Gambling Commission regulations, but the main tax burden and additional expense will fall on the operators.

This is the first I have heard of MGS licensees pulling out of the UK, and I have not so far seen any confirmation of this report elsewhere.

Regarding the number of operators who choose to stay in the UK market, the CEO of the Gambling Commission, Jenny Williams, told a business conference last week that they initially expect at least 150 applications, and that there has been considerable interest in UK licensing and a number of early applications (the closing date for applications is I think mid-September).

The threat from the Gibraltar online casino trade association that it is seeking a judicial review of the new UK law is real, but has to some extent been diluted by major Gib online bookmakers like William Hill and Ladbrokes saying they do not support that sort of litigation, although they are less than happy with the new tax.

 

[jibbajabba]

FWIW after this thread I spoke to my VIP rep at a casino and he told me they would be pulling out of the UK market but nothing had officially been announced. Time to find a new site for me

 

[dunover]

Given that Gibraltar is a British territory I doubt their objections will come to much anyway. Until recently there was another loophole too - in the Channel Islands certain goods less than £15 were allowed to be sold VAT free. Needless to say DVD/CD and other small-item sellers flooded there to undercut rivals on eBay as their costs were 20% less.
The valid point is that it will be unenforceable as we've said before; customers will go to non-licensed operators (as the Gib protestors rightly point out) to avoid taxes. Therefore, the ONLY way this can be enforced is by other entities being made to co-operate. You would need banks to be told to refuse transactions for certain processors to UK citizens, the govt. would need to criminalize those who attempt to play at tax-free sites plus you've got freedom of choice issues. It'll be very hard to enforce, and relies solely on the casinos' goodwill.

 

[jetset]

I agree that unless the British government is prepared to push this as far as some of the other governments in Europe (ie disruption of financial transactions, denial of marketing access, blacklisting and active prosecution of unlicensed operators) some unlicensed operators with software beyond the reach of the Brit authorities will continue to chance their arms. But it will entail some risk i.m.o.

I don't at this point see UK politicians daring to make playing an offence - that would create too much of a furore.

 

[dunover]

I agree that unless the British government is prepared to push this as far as some of the other governments in Europe (ie disruption of financial transactions, denial of marketing access, blacklisting and active prosecution of unlicensed operators) some unlicensed operators with software beyond the reach of the Brit authorities will continue to chance their arms. But it will entail some risk i.m.o.

I don't at this point see UK politicians daring to make playing an offence - that would create too much of a furore.

Ok we know the bigger operations like 32red will pay their dues and continue to service the UK market, but IF they are a minority and say 95% of sites currently available do not, then we run the risk of becoming like USA players, scratching around for other places to play then being ripped off as the sites in question would be in some remote town called 'Rogue City' far beyond any real regulatory body.
The irony being that the government has forced large parts of a generally well-run and safe industry away to be replaced by sites of the Rushmore ilk, therefore ruining all the good intentions of the UKGC and in the process and exposing players to risk.

 

[xxshepxx]

Was always on the cards, thats why Ladbrokes dumped MG

 

[catapultaudio]

FWIW after this thread I spoke to my VIP rep at a casino and he told me they would be pulling out of the UK market but nothing had officially been announced. Time to find a new site for me

Any chance you can name 'a casino' ??.. pretty worthless comment otherwise

Was always on the cards, thats why Ladbrokes dumped MG

I don't think this is accurate either is it? Theres no suggestion, as far as I am aware, that these operators using MG software is in any way responsible for the pull out, its the new tax that is the issue - the article is just making the point that a bunch of high profile, high quality microgaming casinos are pulling out - at least thats my understanding of it.

Ladbrokes got a better deal from Playtech if I remember rightly, it was a business decision I believe and not related in any way to the upcoming legislation.

 

[paul7388]

Think its just a case of wait and see if any casinos do pull out but sure there will be plenty of decent regulated casinos for uk players to use. Ladbrokes going to playtech had nothing to do with it tho as Ladbrokes wanted playtech as they were getting left behind by William hill online and after several attempts managed to get the deal with playtech thinking it would be the answer to all there problems. How wrong they were we will see in the future.

 

[psmith2020]

but that's what the uk government wonts so if they make the online cashinos who serve the uk get a licence as some wont in English it will get more people on the fobts in the bookies so its win win for them

 

[psmith2020]

but when its the law changes will the game testing be by the uk standards

 

[JGslots]

From what I understand it's to put an end to this tax haven in Gib isn't it? Maybe it's about time these companies paid their taxes instead of dodging them for this long? I bet Gib will suffer a lot as a result of this, I'm sure they will be up in arms.

Overall I think it's a bit odd that they have decided to do this right now. I guess the reputable companies will bite the bullet and accept they have to pay proper 15% taxes to the UK government.

 

[psmith2020]

but would that mean for us in the uk it would mean more wagering on the bonus for us

and 1 times wagering on sky vegas would be a thing of the past as we would be covering the tax not the operators

 

[jetset]

Ok we know the bigger operations like 32red will pay their dues and continue to service the UK market, but IF they are a minority and say 95% of sites currently available do not, then we run the risk of becoming like USA players, scratching around for other places to play then being ripped off as the sites in question would be in some remote town called 'Rogue City' far beyond any real regulatory body.
The irony being that the government has forced large parts of a generally well-run and safe industry away to be replaced by sites of the Rushmore ilk, therefore ruining all the good intentions of the UKGC and in the process and exposing players to risk.

Spot on, but I believe it was never about the consumer anyway - it was to tap into another new tax source, despite all the mealy-mouthed utterances of the politicians.

The impact on Gibraltar, Alderney and Malta in particular will be interesting to see.

Bet365 should do well out of this - they've remained licensed in the UK and paying British taxes, yet they have still achieved impressive business performances and continued to grow, despite losing tens of millions on Stoke City FC...there's little adjustment necessary for them.

 

[vinylweatherman]

As expected, the player is the last to hear, and will probably wake up one morning to find their accounts have been blocked overnight with no chance to finish off their promotions and effect an orderly exit.

If it's happening on the 1st of August, players should already have been told by the casino. Even if the plan is to allow existing players to carry on till October we need to know what is happening NOW!

I have asked my VIP rep at Casino Rewards about this, but can't get a straight answer. I can't find a way to see which operators have applied for a UK licence either, which would be a good indicator of intent.

If they are going to keep UK players in the dark, maybe we should all take a few months off until the dust settles, and return to those casinos that obtain a UK license.

If the report has been derived from some discussions with industry reps, then it has more substance than rumour. I will have to assume that casinos in the Digimedia group are "high risk" in that I could be booted without proper notice when half way through some slots tournament or other promotion.

A majority exodus by Microgaming from the UK market may also explain why they pulled all the AWP games "for maintenance" in May, and are in no hurry to complete said "maintenance". These games were aimed at UK players, so will not be needed if UK players are barred.

 

[paul7388]

Well if the majority of microgaming casinos pull out of uk then 32red will gain a lot more business I guess as they are one of the casinos that are guaranteed to stay in the uk market

 

[PaaskeDenmark]

but would that mean for us in the uk it would mean more wagering on the bonus for us

and 1 times wagering on sky vegas would be a thing of the past as we would be covering the tax not the operators

1 times wagering have already gone. I can only see at least 20x wagering now on any of their bonuses. I used to get these as well years back. But seems stopped.

 

[dunover]

As expected, the player is the last to hear, and will probably wake up one morning to find their accounts have been blocked overnight with no chance to finish off their promotions and effect an orderly exit.

If it's happening on the 1st of August, players should already have been told by the casino. Even if the plan is to allow existing players to carry on till October we need to know what is happening NOW!

I have asked my VIP rep at Casino Rewards about this, but can't get a straight answer. I can't find a way to see which operators have applied for a UK licence either, which would be a good indicator of intent. If they are going to keep UK players in the dark, maybe we should all take a few months off until the dust settles, and return to those casinos that obtain a UK license.

If the report has been derived from some discussions with industry reps, then it has more substance than rumour. I will have to assume that casinos in the Digimedia group are "high risk" in that I could be booted without proper notice when half way through some slots tournament or other promotion.

A majority exodus by Microgaming from the UK market may also explain why they pulled all the AWP games "for maintenance" in May, and are in no hurry to complete said "maintenance". These games were aimed at UK players, so will not be needed if UK players are barred.

Check out my UKGC thread just started, there is a search facility for applications both approved and pending..

 

[jibbajabba]

Any chance you can name 'a casino' ??.. pretty worthless comment otherwise

When I'm specifically asked not to name names by the people in question it would be pretty bad form of me to do so. However, they are definitely one of the biggest MG casino groups from what I know. Getting confirmation from a company that they are 100% pulling out of the UK market is hardly a worthless comment though that's is strictly IMO of course.

 

[vinylweatherman]

When I'm specifically asked not to name names by the people in question it would be pretty bad form of me to do so. However, they are definitely one of the biggest MG casino groups from what I know. Getting confirmation from a company that they are 100% pulling out of the UK market is hardly a worthless comment though that's is strictly IMO of course.

It's also bad form for THEM because they are intending to hide this from us so that they can shut us out overnight, rather than give us a decent period of notice. It also means that EVERY casino group is now a suspect of having decided to pull out of the UK but not tell UK players in advance so that THEY can decide when to wind down their activity and uninstall the casinos in question. It means UK players could start to desert casinos that are NOT going to pull out of the UK because they not being given the information they need to decide what casinos to stick with.

The only way around this policy of deliberately hiding this information from the players in general is to assume all casinos are pulling out of the UK until they say otherwise, or are seen to hold a UK licence.

 

[catapultaudio]

When I'm specifically asked not to name names by the people in question it would be pretty bad form of me to do so. However, they are definitely one of the biggest MG casino groups from what I know. Getting confirmation from a company that they are 100% pulling out of the UK market is hardly a worthless comment though that's is strictly IMO of course.

Mate it's not worthless to you because you know the name of the company in question! But yes, if it is as you say, one of the biggest MG casino groups, it is noteworthy - originally you stated only "a casino" which is a bit like coming on here and saying "a casino is closing" with no further detail, thats all I was getting at, nothing personal.

Are you working in the industry then? Surely if they want to keep it quiet they didnt just tell a random customer on live chat...?

 

[psmith2020]

1 times wagering have already gone. I can only see at least 20x wagering now on any of their bonuses. I used to get these as well years back. But seems stopped.

is why they have started doing offers if you spend 50 quid on a selected games you get a free 10r to play

and its that why they don't even send out your own offers to your inbox anymore as they used to every couple of months

and I have notice that there games don't play like they used to either

 

[Richas]

I have been doing a bit of research on this for a poker blog piece due to be published tomorrow so I think I have a decent understanding of what is happening here.

First things first, there is no need to panic, Microgaming are not going to pull out of the UK market. It is a legal white market and is about 8% of the global market.

Secondly this is not really about tax, it is about licencing costs and restrictions if you have a UK licence. Sites or skins with little or no UK base may pull out of the UK market so that they do not pay the licencing fees or need to disclose their ownership but some that focus on grey or black markets would not get a UK licence even if they applied.

This new licencing regime will lead to a polarisation of sites - those that serve grey or black (US) markets will not get or apply for a UK licence. Those that target white markets and the legally defensible grey markets will likely get a UK licence. 32Red is heavily UK so the licence fees etc will not stop them operating in the UK.

The B2B setups - Microgaming Playtech and the like will need to get a UK licence, and their B2C partners in the UK market will need one too. It is the B2Cs that are responsible for the player funds and who will face most scrutiny re risky grey markets.

The B2B licence that affect MG has had a bit extraa added to the UKGCs FAQ on the rules just this week. It is still a bit woolly but the FAQ here with the recent changes highlighted in purple gives the situation for MG.

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[Richas]

but when its the law changes will the game testing be by the uk standards

The FAQ says yes - going forward it will be to UK standards. Also RTP disclosure will be required. From 1st January 2015 the software will also have to be from UK licnced software suppliers.

There are some transitional arrangements to avoid retesting but the UKGC is serious about applying its standards to all UK liceneced sites.

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[vinylweatherman]

I have been doing a bit of research on this for a poker blog piece due to be published tomorrow so I think I have a decent understanding of what is happening here.

First things first, there is no need to panic, Microgaming are not going to pull out of the UK market. It is a legal white market and is about 8% of the global market.

Secondly this is not really about tax, it is about licencing costs and restrictions if you have a UK licence. Sites or skins with little or no UK base may pull out of the UK market so that they do not pay the licencing fees or need to disclose their ownership but some that focus on grey or black markets would not get a UK licence even if they applied.

This new licencing regime will lead to a polarisation of sites - those that serve grey or black (US) markets will not get or apply for a UK licence. Those that target white markets and the legally defensible grey markets will likely get a UK licence. 32Red is heavily UK so the licence fees etc will not stop them operating in the UK.

The B2B setups - Microgaming Playtech and the like will need to get a UK licence, and their B2C partners in the UK market will need one too. It is the B2Cs that are responsible for the player funds and who will face most scrutiny re risky grey markets.

The B2B licence that affect MG has had a bit extraa added to the UKGCs FAQ on the rules just this week. It is still a bit woolly but the FAQ here with the recent changes highlighted in purple gives the situation for MG.

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Maybe not, but it seems there is a major pull out of stand alone Microgaming casinos just over the horizon, and players are being kept in the dark, having to piece together what is likely to happen from next week onwards from press articles and rumour.

All these sites need to do is make it clear to UK players what will change and when. If a site tells me they will close to UK players on Oct 1st, I know I can play there till the end of September, but should avoid any promotions or tournaments that do not complete by the end of September.

The sketchy evidence so far is that big groups are looking at a total pull out from the UK from the end of this week, but we are not allowed to be given names. This means it could be any big group, and could affect any of their promotions that end after this week, including the major Reels De Janeiro tournament.

It looks to me as though they intend to shut out UK players overnight and then tell them, just as happened to players in Spain, Italy and France under Microgaming.

 

[dunover]

I have been doing a bit of research on this for a poker blog piece due to be published tomorrow so I think I have a decent understanding of what is happening here.

First things first, there is no need to panic, Microgaming are not going to pull out of the UK market. It is a legal white market and is about 8% of the global market.

Secondly this is not really about tax, it is about licencing costs and restrictions if you have a UK licence. Sites or skins with little or no UK base may pull out of the UK market so that they do not pay the licencing fees or need to disclose their ownership but some that focus on grey or black markets would not get a UK licence even if they applied.

This new licencing regime will lead to a polarisation of sites - those that serve grey or black (US) markets will not get or apply for a UK licence. Those that target white markets and the legally defensible grey markets will likely get a UK licence. 32Red is heavily UK so the licence fees etc will not stop them operating in the UK.

The B2B setups - Microgaming Playtech and the like will need to get a UK licence, and their B2C partners in the UK market will need one too. It is the B2Cs that are responsible for the player funds and who will face most scrutiny re risky grey markets.

The B2B licence that affect MG has had a bit extraa added to the UKGCs FAQ on the rules just this week. It is still a bit woolly but the FAQ here with the recent changes highlighted in purple gives the situation for MG.

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Well, very informative but of course it's all about tax, however you/they dress it up. The licensing issue is merely a by-product of the UK's intent to tax online gaming and to stop offshore tax-avoidance.
The same principle has been in the media regarding Starbucks/Amazon/Paypal/eBay etc. registering themselves in places like Eire and Luxembourg and unfortunately for us gamblers reeling them in has a big public approval rating.
Online gaming should be no different, as UK gaming firms do exactly the same with their 'flags of convenience'.

Compare a retailer like T*sc* which has too a margin of circa 4%. They have massive overheads of staff, buildings etc. Then look at 888/cassava say, with a 4% margin, a bigger average spend and own one building, servers and employ relatively very few staff therefore have a fraction of the costs. Yet they can take the same revenue theoretically as T*sc* from UK customers and pay bugger-all tax. It had to come eventually.

32red/Hills etc. can whinge all they like but there is no EU law saying that individual governments can't tax their own people's expenditure. Gibraltar also elects its MEP in the mainland UK's SW constituency, and is treated as part of the UK. The whole Gibraltar online gaming bubble has only existed through concerted tax-avoidance. In THEORY you can bring as much tobacco and alcohol into the UK from an EU state as you like but as we all know, the UK has imposed 'reasonable' limits and has had that right upheld effectively by the EU to protect tax revenues.

Yes, there'll be appeals and protest but it will be futile. Follow the money. The UK exchequer will have its way, and will no doubt enjoy public support for doing so. The gaming companies either play it by the UKGC, or they forfeit their UK customer base. If they can make it pay still, they get the licence, if not they leave.

Get used to it.

 

[Richas]

Maybe not, but it seems there is a major pull out of stand alone Microgaming casinos just over the horizon, and players are being kept in the dark, having to piece together what is likely to happen from next week onwards from press articles and rumour.

All these sites need to do is make it clear to UK players what will change and when. If a site tells me they will close to UK players on Oct 1st, I know I can play there till the end of September, but should avoid any promotions or tournaments that do not complete by the end of September.

The sketchy evidence so far is that big groups are looking at a total pull out from the UK from the end of this week, but we are not allowed to be given names. This means it could be any big group, and could affect any of their promotions that end after this week, including the major Reels De Janeiro tournament.

It looks to me as though they intend to shut out UK players overnight and then tell them, just as happened to players in Spain, Italy and France under Microgaming.

I agree that there should be transparency but there are a few things that make this likely to be better than with those other countries.

1) The regulatory timeline is clear. We know 1st October is the date and so too do MG and the skins. It is not a sudden change of mind re the regulatory position and legality.
2) MG will still be in the UK market so will likely want to manage customers accross to other MG sites from those exiting the UK market. This can be agreed inclusing transfering accross promotions/points etc. There may even be some bonuses to help migrate people.
3) The skins pulling out will be those with a small UK customer base that does not justify the fixed skin licencing costs or the problems for those skins re grey markets.

 

[Richas]

Well, very informative but of course it's all about tax, however you/they dress it up. The licensing issue is merely a by-product of the UK's intent to tax online gaming and to stop offshore tax-avoidance.
The same principle has been in the media regarding Starbucks/Amazon/Paypal/eBay etc. registering themselves in places like Eire and Luxembourg and unfortunately for us gamblers reeling them in has a big public approval rating.
Online gaming should be no different, as UK gaming firms do exactly the same with their 'flags of convenience'.

...
Yes, there'll be appeals and protest but it will be futile. Follow the money. The UK exchequer will have its way, and will no doubt enjoy public support for doing so. The gaming companies either play it by the UKGC, or they forfeit their UK customer base. If they can make it pay still, they get the licence, if not they leave.

Get used to it.

I tend to agre with the sentiment. Clearly the taxman wants his 15% and has lost patience with Gib and the offshored firms. This tax is going to happen and it will likely be popular with the UK public, press and politicians.

Having said that the politicians and regulators hated having 85% of online gambling rgulated overseas too. They want the regulatory powers too. It is not just about tax, even though tax matters too.

As for the decision to pull out of the UK market or not - well that isn't really about tax either. A 15% revenue tax is a level that will let many firms still turn a tidy profit. They will need a bit of scale to overcome the fixed regulatory costs but 85% of revenues, just on UK players and not on ROW is not that onerous. It is the small sites with hardly any UK players and little or no marketing budget for the UK that will pull out but they have been being squeezed out by the big boys anyway.

For those small skins the rules on declaring ownership, getting personal licences, fixed application fees and abovce all pulling out of grey/black markets or justifying their operations in those markets is what makes for the UK/Not UK decision. It is not the marginal tax rate on just UK players, it is the package of fixed costs and regulatory restrictions that might mean they pull out but TBH they will scarcely be missed by most in the UK - after all they are dropping the UK market as they don't have enough UK players to make up for the fixed downsides.

That Gib licence is the one that starts to look unnecessary - it is giving access to fewer and fewer markets now.

 

[dunover]

I tend to agre with the sentiment. Clearly the taxman wants his 15% and has lost patience with Gib and the offshored firms. This tax is going to happen and it will likely be popular with the UK public, press and politicians.

Having said that the politicians and regulators hated having 85% of online gambling rgulated overseas too. They want the regulatory powers too. It is not just about tax, even though tax matters too.

As for the decision to pull out of the UK market or not - well that isn't really about tax either. A 15% revenue tax is a level that will let many firms still turn a tidy profit. They will need a bit of scale to overcome the fixed regulatory costs but 85% of revenues, just on UK players and not on ROW is not that onerous. It is the small sites with hardly any UK players and little or no marketing budget for the UK that will pull out but they have been being squeezed out by the big boys anyway.

For those small skins the rules on declaring ownership, getting personal licences, fixed application fees and abovce all pulling out of grey/black markets or justifying their operations in those markets is what makes for the UK/Not UK decision. It is not the marginal tax rate on just UK players, it is the package of fixed costs and regulatory restrictions that might mean they pull out but TBH they will scarcely be missed by most in the UK - after all they are dropping the UK market as they don't have enough UK players to make up for the fixed downsides.

That Gib licence is the one that starts to look unnecessary - it is giving access to fewer and fewer markets now.

Gib licences unnecessary - The sheer irony....

Poor Vinyl will certainly miss them, and I have to say before I migrated my play to multi-platform sites I used tens of different MG Viper download sites which will henceforth refuse the UK market.

I am uncertain of MG's powers in all this; could they, as you suggested offer bonuses etc. for UK skins to take the UK refuseniks' player bases from them or does the MG contract have no such facility to enforce this? I know common-sense decrees that the UK ones would welcome the extra punters, but if the refuseniks got stroppy about giving players away...?

 

[Richas]

Gib licences unnecessary - The sheer irony....

Poor Vinyl will certainly miss them, and I have to say before I migrated my play to multi-platform sites I used tens of different MG Viper download sites which will henceforth refuse the UK market.

I am uncertain of MG's powers in all this; could they, as you suggested offer bonuses etc. for UK skins to take the UK refuseniks' player bases from them or does the MG contract have no such facility to enforce this? I know common-sense decrees that the UK ones would welcome the extra punters, but if the refuseniks got stroppy about giving players away...?

I'd expect those pullng out of the UK market to want to get some value from their old UK customers - basically to sell them on a bit like an affiliate. MG coordinating that transfer just makes sense for the three involved - MG the exiting B2C and the B2C staying in the UK market.

Now obviously there is plenty of room for the firms to mess up but it really shouldn't be that hard.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I'd expect those pullng out of the UK market to want to get some value from their old UK customers - basically to sell them on a bit like an affiliate. MG coordinating that transfer just makes sense for the three involved - MG the exiting B2C and the B2C staying in the UK market.

Now obviously there is plenty of room for the firms to mess up but it really shouldn't be that hard.

It's been done before, but even without any help, UK players that have been cut adrift are likely to be looking around for a new venue, so are more likely to be receptive to marketing than they would have been when happy with the casinos they were playing at.

However, apart from the Vegas Partner Lounge group, it seems that it's a total pull out rather than a move of all their UK players into a single skin.

I am not sure where this 1st October comes in because the law is not supposedly effective until the 1st December, unless a recent change has brought things forward.

This still does not excuse them for keeping players in the dark. I have absolutely nothing in my email about this, and the first changes are due at the end of the week with all but Casino UK being shut for me as a UK player. I am able to take action to protect my participation in the monthly €20,000 because I found out about this from here before investing heavily in continues.

Nothing from Royal Vegas, yet these casinos (according to the article) are going for a complete pull out. Are they the "big operator" that is actively telling people who have found out via their VIP hosts to keep quiet about it?

I have left Crazy Vegas installed so that I can test the validity of said article by seeing if I am indeed blocked on the 18th July, and that Casino UK is the only skin that lets me in.

 

[Richas]

It's been done before, but even without any help, UK players that have been cut adrift are likely to be looking around for a new venue, so are more likely to be receptive to marketing than they would have been when happy with the casinos they were playing at.

However, apart from the Vegas Partner Lounge group, it seems that it's a total pull out rather than a move of all their UK players into a single skin.

I am not sure where this 1st October comes in because the law is not supposedly effective until the 1st December, unless a recent change has brought things forward.

This still does not excuse them for keeping players in the dark. I have absolutely nothing in my email about this, and the first changes are due at the end of the week with all but Casino UK being shut for me as a UK player. I am able to take action to protect my participation in the monthly €20,000 because I found out about this from here before investing heavily in continues.

Nothing from Royal Vegas, yet these casinos (according to the article) are going for a complete pull out. Are they the "big operator" that is actively telling people who have found out via their VIP hosts to keep quiet about it?

I have left Crazy Vegas installed so that I can test the validity of said article by seeing if I am indeed blocked on the 18th July, and that Casino UK is the only skin that lets me in.

The tax date change is 1st Decemeber. The new law requiring a UK licence is effective from 1st October and the requirement for software to be from UK licenced suppliers is end Jan 2015.

 

[vinylweatherman]

The tax date change is 1st Decemeber. The new law requiring a UK licence is effective from 1st October and the requirement for software to be from UK licenced suppliers is end Jan 2015.

So, an unlicensed casino will have to stop taking bets from UK players on Sept 30th at the latest unless they have applied for a UK licence by 16th September in order to be able to use the interim arrangements between Oct 1st and Dec 1st.

It seems Jan 2015 sets another deadline which could mean casinos with UK licenses might have to pull games from some suppliers from the UK market.

For consumers (players), a simple approach would have been better, but it seems a more complicated multi stage process does not have the interests of the players in mind, leaving them with an information vacuum and uncertainty between now and Oct 1st. The casinos could at least make the process as smooth as possible by using the deadline of Sept 30th for the exit from the UK market, rather than all this uncertainty with different brands throwing out UK players with little or no notice on arbitrary dates between now and then.

Those intending to apply could also put the player first by declaring this intent so that players know that they are going to be able to carry on playing unless the UKGC refuses the application.

Failing this, they can't blame UK players from taking heed of media reports and rumour, especially given that they have already seen what happens because of how things were handled in Spain, France and Italy, in which it was largely a case of overnight lock outs with little or no notice to players, and in some cases, even those who asked what was going on got the completely wrong answers from the casino in that it was blamed on "technical issues" which were being "worked on".

 

[jibbajabba]

I've been googling to try and find more about this and found this post on another forum

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.

Guys I like to keep my personal life exactly that but for those in doubt my husband plays at fortune and he won the VIP cruise.It was on this cruise that I confirmed what one of my players told me , I got to meet a few UK players and one was actually crying about this being their very last cruise with Fortune .She told me that they were already told from their VIP Manager that they will get them set up at BETWAY.
I want to go on more free cruises so that is about all I will say about conversations on this cruise but I was not the only affiliate on this trip and we all were ready to explode to see how they got their ducks all lined up.

That seems to confirm that Fortune Lounge are pulling out - Royal Vegas, Platinum Play etc. I play with a different company, so seems this is really happening. Who do you all recommend for UK Microgaming in terms of VIP rewards?

 

[dave1888]

I've been googling to try and find more about this and found this post on another forum

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.



That seems to confirm that Fortune Lounge are pulling out - Royal Vegas, Platinum Play etc. I play with a different company, so seems this is really happening. Who do you all recommend for UK Microgaming in terms of VIP rewards?

Redflush,bellerock group(gaming club jpc,riverbelle etc),Casino uk crazy vegas etc also good loyalty schemes. Piggs peak too.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I've been googling to try and find more about this and found this post on another forum

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.



That seems to confirm that Fortune Lounge are pulling out - Royal Vegas, Platinum Play etc. I play with a different company, so seems this is really happening. Who do you all recommend for UK Microgaming in terms of VIP rewards?

This confirms that UK players will lose Fortune Lounge, but also gives us yet another confirmed safe haven, Betway.

Redflush,bellerock group(gaming club jpc,riverbelle etc),Casino uk crazy vegas etc also good loyalty schemes. Piggs peak too.

There is doubt about this. Fortune Lounge is Digimedia, and Red Flush, Belle Rock that was, are also now Digimedia, along with the old Jackpot Factory group. These are all likely to go along with Fortune Lounge, and it would have to be on September 30th at the latest in order to comply with the new UK laws. Microgaming are likely centrally switch off any Microgaming skin that fails to apply for a UK licence by the 16th September deadline as under the legislation, software suppliers who supply games to UK licenced casinos must ensure that unlicensed casinos CANNOT use it's games within the UK. This must be how the UKGC intends to force the rogues out, by denying them access to the decent software.

At the moment, I can still log in to Crazy Vegas from the UK. The change here seems to be that all UK players of other skins will be migrated to Casino UK, which will then be the only skin available to UK players. This can only last until September unless an application for a UK licence is submitted.

 

[aceking123]

ok so why are we not hearing anything from reps micro gaming or any other part of the online world about whats going on ? ??

 

[Captain Chaos]

ok so why are we not hearing anything from reps micro gaming or any other part of the online world about whats going on ? ??

The only plausible reason I can think off as to why we haven't heard anything official could be that they simply don't know themselves. There are so many casinos and issues to look at that we may not get an official response until much nearer the time when everyone has made their decisions. Until every casino has made a decision as to whether they are in or out, it's anyone's guess really. This whole thing is a confusing pain in the butt really!

 

[vinylweatherman]

I have been in contact with a couple of my VIP hosts, and now have the complete picture for Vegas Partner Lounge.


1) The change happens TONIGHT!!!!!!!

2) All UK players will only be able to play through Casino UK, although existing VIP and loyalty benefits should be transferred over.

3) If you have one, UK players will be expected to play on their existing Casino UK account.

4) The change will be automated, logging on to a skin other than Casino UK from the UK will cause a software update that will switch the skin to Casino UK.

5) (This has SERIOUS implications for some!!!!). Cross Play will be SWICHED OFF, and any other account will no longer be accessible, even through Casino UK. If you are playing the Reels De Janeiro, act NOW!!!! If you have a good placing, but are holding back some continues for later, DON'T, get stuck in NOW and play for the best score possible, tomorrow you are stuck where you are, and will be unable to use any further continues. If you are playing the current €20,000 999 continue Thunderstruck II tournament through an account other than Casino UK - it's tough shit I'm afraid. With Cross play being switched off, it will not be possible to complete the event by using an existing account at another skin through Casino UK. You should contact the casino and demand the return of all buy ins and continues already paid for. You can start afresh with your Casino UK account and its MPV alias in these, and any other, tournament.

Casino UK is the only skin that is expected to hold a UK license, and as part of these measures, it looks like non UK players with accounts at Casino UK will end up being migrated to another skin. They too could suffer if they are playing one of the MPV tournaments through their Casino UK account whilst being non UK resident and located outside of the UK.

You have roughly 10-12 hours notice, no thanks to Vegas Partner Lounge


It is now pretty obvious that the rumours coming through the industry press, blogs, and other players are pretty much reliable, and should be believed and acted upon unless the operators themselves offer assurances to the contrary. The operators have decided not to inform the player base in advance, but are willing to tell players that ask what is going to happen.

Next on the agenda is to discover the switch off date of all Fortune Lounge casinos for UK players, it is probably imminent, so don't start out on any MPV tournaments that span more than a single day until the date becomes known. The date is likely to apply to other Digimedia properties, including the old Jackpot Factory portfolio (unless informed otherwise by them).

Fortune Lounge accounts of UK players look like being migrated to Betway.

 

[Captain Chaos]

Jesus. Thanks for the heads up on that! 12 hours notice is a disgraceful way of treating the customer base if you ask me. I think for people playing MG downloads the options really are to use 32red, this new Casino UK or use Betway. Unless any other casinos wish to confirm they are staying in the UK? I know 32red haven't said as much but seeing as Ed Ware thanked my post about it the other day one can only assume this will be the case.

The Gaming Club is Digimedia isn't it? Been playing there recently. They have been sending me a bucket load of texts and emails about deposit bonuses very recently. I wonder why? Will be watching this all very closely and will not be depositing there until further notice. If you hear anything else VWM, do keep us updated. You're doing more than the casinos to keep us updated at the minute. Which is awesome. Shouldn't be the case though!

 

[vinylweatherman]

Jesus. Thanks for the heads up on that! 12 hours notice is a disgraceful way of treating the customer base if you ask me. I think for people playing MG downloads the options really are to use 32red, this new Casino UK or use Betway. Unless any other casinos wish to confirm they are staying in the UK? I know 32red haven't said as much but seeing as Ed Ware thanked my post about it the other day one can only assume this will be the case.

The Gaming Club is Digimedia isn't it? Been playing there recently. They have been sending me a bucket load of texts and emails about deposit bonuses very recently. I wonder why? Will be watching this all very closely and will not be depositing there until further notice. If you hear anything else VWM, do keep us updated. You're doing more than the casinos to keep us updated at the minute. Which is awesome. Shouldn't be the case though!

I believe the sh1t could hit the fan tomorrow with regard to promotions currently underway that UK players have bought into, but can't see through, at Vegas Partner Lounge. It isn't even 12 hours notice, it's NO notice as of yet, it's down to players seeing the rumours and contacting VIP hosts. It's possible that those contacting front line CS will be given confusing or incorrect information.

I just had my last go at Royal Vegas, turning £200 into £400, and verifying that I am not placed in a paying position in Reels De Janeiro. No point in claiming my deposit match, nor starting anything new in the way of tournaments with an unknown date for account termination.

I have also found out that the "Marmite of casinos", Casino Rewards, IS intending to apply for a UK licence. An update to the more vague answers I was getting earlier about "looking after our UK players".

32Red look pretty reliable as a stayer for UK players, and Betway is said to be where Fortune Lounge UK accounts will migrate, so must be a stayer too.

It's rather poor that the Gaming club and other ex Belle Rock casinos are stepping up efforts to get UK players to deposit when it looks likely that they are soon to boot the lot of us.

The other confirmed stayer is Casino UK

The web based platforms currently already licenced by the UKGC are probably getting their continuation licence and can be expected to become fully licenced under the new legislation unless THEY screw up and the UKGC denies their application or revokes their licence.

I strongly suspect all Rival powered casinos will exit the UK as the 4 Canadian owners will have to obtain personal licences, as well as reveal their identities on the public register held by the UKGC. Both Rival and RTG have an additional problem in that they would have to pull out of "black markets" such as the US, and justify their offering services in "grey markets". Rival and RTG would also have to prevent the software from being used by unlicenced casinos operating in the UK market and other "black market" areas.

Top Game?, forget it, no chance, don't even bother applying for a UK licence.

Cassava may be the one to stand up to the UK as they use in house software, and are angry about the changes, and have the full support of the government in Gibraltar. They may be the ones prepared to flout the law and allow UK players to carry on after Oct 1st whilst a legal challenge is ongoing.

Top Game may NOT pull out of the UK, even though this would mean UK licenced casinos would be banned from using Top Game as a supplier.

Other casinos using in house or bespoke software need not fear their software suppliers shutting down their UK operations, so some of these may still service the UK market from "untouchable" offshore havens.

Whilst many accredited and "good to go" casinos might exit the UK, a few true rogues might take a chance because there will be a sudden reduction in supply, and many players looking around for new venues.

 

[Captain Chaos]

Casino Rewards...........

I'd like them so much more if they didn't spam the crap out of me! (Or is it an affiliate? I can never tell!) One such email from Gaming Club from just the other day was saying I had a 100% bonus for today and tomorrow, plus entry in a Proud to be British quiz for a share of some loyalty points. Oh the irony! Got a text yesterday and every Tuesday for the last month stating I have a 50% bonus for that day. It's my own fault because I'm too lazy to opt out, but the incredible thing is that I have had an account there for the best part of 3 years and they have only in the last couple of months started with the messages. It's not an account I have used often though. Maybe it's a coincidence?

What this whole ongoing saga does highlight though is the importance of websites such as this to the online gambling community. If I hadn't read anything here, then I'd most likely be in the dark and depositing still! I feel sorry for those who will get caught out though.

 

[dunover]

Casino Rewards...........

I'd like them so much more if they didn't spam the crap out of me! (Or is it an affiliate? I can never tell!) One such email from Gaming Club from just the other day was saying I had a 100% bonus for today and tomorrow, plus entry in a Proud to be British quiz for a share of some loyalty points. Oh the irony! Got a text yesterday and every Tuesday for the last month stating I have a 50% bonus for that day. It's my own fault because I'm too lazy to opt out, but the incredible thing is that I have had an account there for the best part of 3 years and they have only in the last couple of months started with the messages. It's not an account I have used often though. Maybe it's a coincidence?

What this whole ongoing saga does highlight though is the importance of websites such as this to the online gambling community. If I hadn't read anything here, then I'd most likely be in the dark and depositing still! I feel sorry for those who will get caught out though.

Exactly. I've played about every MG viper download of repute over the years but not CR sites, for this precise reason, the unfettered spamming. You report it and they do nothing unlike other reputable sites.
P.S. Gaming club aren't CR??

 

[Captain Chaos]

Exactly. I've played about every MG viper download of repute over the years but not CR sites, for this precise reason, the unfettered spamming. You report it and they do nothing unlike other reputable sites.
P.S. Gaming club aren't CR??

Ah, no. I mentioned Gaming Club in reference to the stuff I was getting from them. They're Digimedia, aren't they?

 

[aceking123]

you may well knock the CR but looks like at least the trying to keep there uk player base ) pity about the dreadful spamming but i can over look this never had any real problems with pay outs etc etc

 

[Simmo!]

It's rather poor that the Gaming club and other ex Belle Rock casinos are stepping up efforts to get UK players to deposit when it looks likely that they are soon to boot the lot of us.

I wouldn't bank on that. There are structural (company) changes happening which I believe means those casinos, along with the Palace Group casinos, are to be run out of London later this year. That intimates that they will hold UK licences.

By the way, Crazy Vegas Flash casino now redirects to Casino UK but you can't log in yet.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I wouldn't bank on that. There are structural (company) changes happening which I believe means those casinos, along with the Palace Group casinos, are to be run out of London later this year. That intimates that they will hold UK licences.

By the way, Crazy Vegas Flash casino now redirects to Casino UK but you can't log in yet.

Perhaps if they kept their players informed we wouldn't have to extrapolate from the known plans to dump UK players and the known state of the companies involved.

Telling UK players after the fact is too late. When UK players get locked out from one Digimedia skin after another, they are going to assume the whole lot are closed to them unless told otherwise. The casinos then have to win the players back, but trust would have been lost because of how they were booted with zero notice from large numbers of skins. It's the casinos that make it clear early on that they are here to stay in the UK that will keep their existing customers, as well as attract freshly booted customers from other skins.

The first of these mass lockouts is due in 2-3 hours. Anyone who plays there actually been told yet by the casino (as opposed to finding out from the rumour mill).

 

[PaaskeDenmark]

I wouldn't bank on that. There are structural (company) changes happening which I believe means those casinos, along with the Palace Group casinos, are to be run out of London later this year. That intimates that they will hold UK licences.

By the way, Crazy Vegas Flash casino now redirects to Casino UK but you can't log in yet.

Yeah download still working fine. By the way as rule is not in force until 1st December. Would we not be allowed to use a different internet connection?

 

[PaaskeDenmark]

Perhaps if they kept their players informed we wouldn't have to extrapolate from the known plans to dump UK players and the known state of the companies involved.

Telling UK players after the fact is too late. When UK players get locked out from one Digimedia skin after another, they are going to assume the whole lot are closed to them unless told otherwise. The casinos then have to win the players back, but trust would have been lost because of how they were booted with zero notice from large numbers of skins. It's the casinos that make it clear early on that they are here to stay in the UK that will keep their existing customers, as well as attract freshly booted customers from other skins.

The first of these mass lockouts is due in 2-3 hours. Anyone who plays there actually been told yet by the casino (as opposed to finding out from the rumour mill).

As I posted days ago. The casinos were phoning customers. So only players who have their correct mobile number registered would had received such phone call I guess. Though strange they haven't sent emails out as well.