Lame ducks

[greasemonkey]

Isn't it infuriating that the people JUST voted last month to throw out the big govt spenders and every poll showed that the voters did NOT approve of the huge govt growth and all the spending and pork and earmarks in these overbearing bills yet...... here is the lame duck congress that just got voted out with a 13% approval rating trying to ram down 2000 pages of new spending as they are leaving office????

I am shocked at the audacity of these liberals/progrssives/socialists. It is literally unbelievable to me that they would attempt to do this. It is as though they are passing laws directly AGAINST the will of the American people.

Thank goodness the conservatives defeated this latest spending bill. This mid term election could not have come soon enough and it just shows what will happen if you allow a bunch of leftists to govern and get their agenda passed. It would only be a matter of a small amount of time until they had wrecked the ship, abandoned the constitution and had us as a socialist nation.

 

[bryand]

Unfortunately, many earmarks in the now-defeated omnibus spending bill were placed by republicans. Seriously, let's borrow some more money from China to fund another stupid research project in a third world country.

 

[greasemonkey]

I agree very much bryand. I don't care what party they are in. I use the terms liberal and conservative. Believe me there are a couple of liberal republicans (Olympia Snowe et al) and there are a handful of bluedog dems that are more fiscally conservative than people like Snowe. Obviously the NORM is for Reps to be fiscally conservative and Dems to be fiscally liberal. Party doesnt mean anything to me, however. My concern is if they are CONSERVATIVE fiscally or not.
If they are liberal fiscally then they need to be shown the door. These few fiscally liberal Republicans need to be voted out as well as the overwhelming majority of dems who either supported the spending bill or added earmarks. It just outrages me and it should everyone.

 

[jetset]

It's clearly impossible to stop governments spending like drunk sailors - there are examples all over the world of the same sort of disregard for the taxpayer's money and it infuriates me every time I see a new media expose on really dumbass or corruption-tainted projects.

This business in the States of politicians being able to wheel and deal and attach unrelated or pork barrel bills to more important legislation also pisses me off bigtime, just on principle.

How can these people hope to have sensible and informed debate on proposed legislation when these earmark or Christmas Tree attachments confuse and inflate the material they are supposed to be conscientiously studying?

It merely ensures that noone really gets to grips with each law other than its authors, and the poliical hacks too often take the safe course of voting on party lines.

Rant over

 

[felicie]

Ironically politicians are the biggest gamblers and they should use their own money since they aren't very good at it.

 

[gloria460]

I agree very much bryand. I don't care what party they are in. I use the terms liberal and conservative. Believe me there are a couple of liberal republicans (Olympia Snowe et al) and there are a handful of bluedog dems that are more fiscally conservative than people like Snowe. Obviously the NORM is for Reps to be fiscally conservative and Dems to be fiscally liberal. Party doesnt mean anything to me, however. My concern is if they are CONSERVATIVE fiscally or not.

I am shocked at the audacity of these liberals/progrssives/socialists

You were specifically speaking of dems..no mention of republicans until it was shown that they wanted to add all these earmarks...in fact you were praising the fact that the dems were thrown out so that the repubs can take over and make this country right...give me a freaking break. I don't know why people believe that one party is better than the other.

I guess we can debate til the cows come home. It's going to take a cohesive action between both parties to start getting us back on the right track. Instead of casting blame on one party let's hold them equally responsible to do the right thing.

Let me ask another question. In order to get this country back where it belongs, what are you (meaning the citizens) willing to give up?

 

[felicie]

I am shocked at the audacity of these liberals/progrssives/socialists

You were specifically speaking of dems..no mention of republicans until it was shown that they wanted to add all these earmarks...in fact you were praising the fact that the dems were thrown out so that the repubs can take over and make this country right...give me a freaking break. I don't know why people believe that one party is better than the other.

I guess we can debate til the cows come home. It's going to take a cohesive action between both parties to start getting us back on the right track. Instead of casting blame on one party let's hold them equally responsible to do the right thing.

Let me ask another question. In order to get this country back where it belongs, what are you (meaning the citizens) willing to give up?

I agree they need to work together and in fact probably wont change a thing if they can't but it is a well known fact that dems are loose spenders and repubs are tightwads. Both can be a major pain in the butt because of that too.

 

[gloria460]

Not all dems are loose spenders just like not all repubs are conservative tight wads. If we can get people to go to the middle like they did on the tax breaks then meaningful dialogue can ensue.

 

[felicie]

Not all dems are loose spenders just like not all repubs are conservative tight wads. If we can get people to go to the middle like they did on the tax breaks then meaningful dialogue can ensue.[/QUOT


Getting them to the middle is the hard part. Maybe putting magnets in their boxers...or better still a backhoe.

 

[greasemonkey]

I am shocked at the audacity of these liberals/progrssives/socialists

You were specifically speaking of dems..no mention of republicans until it was shown that they wanted to add all these earmarks...in fact you were praising the fact that the dems were thrown out so that the repubs can take over and make this country right...give me a freaking break. I don't know why people believe that one party is better than the other.

I guess we can debate til the cows come home. It's going to take a cohesive action between both parties to start getting us back on the right track. Instead of casting blame on one party let's hold them equally responsible to do the right thing.

Let me ask another question. In order to get this country back where it belongs, what are you (meaning the citizens) willing to give up?

Go ahead back and read my posts again. Perhaps that will allow you to understand what I wrote rather than what you interpreted.

Cliff notes: I said I don't care which party they are in. I care that they are not liberal/progressive/socialist. I said I did want them to be very fiscally CONSERVATIVE.
So, if I don't care which party they are in and I am against liberal big spenders (which included the vast majority of dems) and I am for fiscally conservative policies and those that pass them then where the hell do you come up with the dems vs. reps stuff? You shouldnt think in terms of parties. You should think in terms of platforms. Fiscally conservative is good for the economy. Liberal spenders ruin countries and run them into the ground. Look around the world right now and you will see it. It NEVER works.

But you asked me a question at the end of your post. The answer is quite simple. As a self-reliant, capable, able bodied American citizen that has served my country via the Military in war I am more than willing to give up all the social handouts the government offers me as a citizen. I don't want its SOCIAL security - no thank you. I don't want its socialized medicine, I am more than willing to give that up. I am willing to give up 3 years worth of being paid to be unemployment. I am willing to give up research on Cow burps. I am willing to give up funding for ways to stop "global warming" if it even exists. I am willing to give up Govt. takeovers of our auto industry. I am willing to give up bailouts to banks. I am willing to give up all those types of things.

Thank you for asking. In doing so it will keep more money in people's pockets, raise the govts. revenue and give people incentive to achieve....all the while making the economy strong again.

How about you?

 

[gloria460]

Thank goodness the conservatives defeated this latest spending bill. This mid term election could not have come soon enough and it just shows what will happen if you allow a bunch of leftists to govern and get their agenda passed. It would only be a matter of a small amount of time until they had wrecked the ship, abandoned the constitution and had us as a socialist nation.

I can read and interpret quite well and anybody who read your first post knew exactly what you were referring to.

I'm all for them raising taxes, cutting entitlements, medicare, social security, getting rid of earned income...sorry but that program doesn't work the way that it was intended to.., limits on how many years you're on welfare, food stamps and low income housing...if all that is taken away the least that we can give people who can't afford healthcare is the chance to.

Glad to see that everybody is willing to give up something.

 

[greasemonkey]

Your reading into what I wrote rather than taking it at face value. So you are just interpreting rather than digesting.

I said conservative and I meant conservative. I didn't mean Rep or dem. I would be happy if Reps like olympia snowe were defeated and defeated soundly so long as it was by a conservative candidate. Who the hell cares which party they are in? I don't. I only care what their platform is. If you would vote for somebody just because of what party they would claim then you are too stupid to vote. I would be happy if a dem would take the stance of fiscal responsibility, less govt interference and basic free market principles.

I would never vote for specter out of PA. He was getting so beat up by the conservatives that he would not even be able to win a bid for reelection in his own party so he switched from Rep to dem... the party meant nothing because he was just a liberal pile of garbage.

The fact that you equate fiscal responsibility with Reps and Liberal/socialist spending with dems is good. It is mostly the truth. However there are some exceptions and I wouldnt care which party they were from. I said it and I meant it. No need to try and guess what I mean. I'm stating it clearly and without hesitation.

 

[greasemonkey]

I'm all for them raising taxes, cutting entitlements, medicare, social security, getting rid of earned income...sorry but that program doesn't work the way that it was intended to.., limits on how many years you're on welfare, food stamps and low income housing...if all that is taken away the least that we can give people who can't afford healthcare is the chance to.

Glad to see that everybody is willing to give up something.

????

Why would you be for RAISING taxes? Who is "them" that you want to raise the taxes?

Sorry if I am being dense here.

 

[gloria460]

Your elected officials are them...come on greasemonkey....why is everybody wanting a tax cut?

We're slowly getting out of this recession and it's going to take sacrifice on everybody's part. If you have so many people laid off, that reduces the money that is going to the government to fund programs and infrastructure that is needed in this country. In short, if you raise the taxes to the pre-Bush tax rate then that's more money we don't have to borrow and hopefully we can get people back to work.

I'm not equating spending with libs and being conservatives with repubs. As shown in Bryand's post they (repubs) can spend with the best of them. We're probably not going to agree on much but thanks for listening and I truly hope that the group that we have coming in, in the new year will seriously work with the pres and the dems to better this country and not try to make political points for popularity.

 

[bryand]

Your elected officials are them...come on greasemonkey....why is everybody wanting a tax cut?

We're slowly getting out of this recession and it's going to take sacrifice on everybody's part. If you have so many people laid off, that reduces the money that is going to the government to fund programs and infrastructure that is needed in this country. In short, if you raise the taxes to the pre-Bush tax rate then that's more money we don't have to borrow and hopefully we can get people back to work.

I'm not equating spending with libs and being conservatives with repubs. As shown in Bryand's post they (repubs) can spend with the best of them. We're probably not going to agree on much but thanks for listening and I truly hope that the group that we have coming in, in the new year will seriously work with the pres and the dems to better this country and not try to make political points for popularity.

What if lowering taxes served to stimulate the economy so that all ships rise with the tide?

 

[bryand]

This is enough to make one want to move to Montana and write a manifesto against the US government.

(Senate report on gov't waste - takes a few seconds to load)

Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

 

[greasemonkey]

What if lowering taxes served to stimulate the economy so that all ships rise with the tide?

EXACTLY! The more money you keep (it is YOUR personal property btw) the more you can spend, or invest... it creates jobs and gets more people back into the tax paying pool. The more you raise taxes the less people spend, the more jobs are lost and the lower the amount of people paying taxes.

If you are middle class, it allows you to buy more goods&services. If you are a business owner it allows you to open new stores, hire more workers, expand product lines...etc. This creates jobs.

 

[gloria460]

What if lowering taxes served to stimulate the economy so that all ships rise with the tide?

That's to be seen...hasn't happened yet and I doubt that it will. The more you lower taxes the more the people that can actually hire will save the money. Very few people even realized that their taxes have been lowered for over a year now. I noticed it in my paycheck bc mine is usually the same every pay period. I am saving almost 300 a month from that.

EXACTLY! The more money you keep (it is YOUR personal property btw) the more you can spend, or invest... it creates jobs and gets more people back into the tax paying pool. The more you raise taxes the less people spend, the more jobs are lost and the lower the amount of people paying taxes.

If you are middle class, it allows you to buy more goods&services. If you are a business owner it allows you to open new stores, hire more workers, expand product lines...etc. This creates jobs.

Good points greasemonkey but bc of the lowered tax brackets in my paystub I'm actually saving. I spend some to try and help out but the majority is put in my mutual fund.

I'm not against the scenario if it works but let's look at what we're working with here. You don't have leveled minded people in gov. , at best all you're going to get is if you support my earmark or project I'll support yours.

I wouldn't have a problem in getting rid of all of the long termers and starting over with some greenhorns who really want to reduce the deficit and create jobs and jump starting this economy. A good mix is not a bad thing.

 

[greasemonkey]

I wouldn't have a problem in getting rid of all of the long termers and starting over with some greenhorns who really want to reduce the deficit and create jobs and jump starting this economy. A good mix is not a bad thing.

We have definitely found common ground I knew that we would agree sooner or later!

 

[felicie]

Not trying to screw up your common ground here, but,

"That's to be seen...hasn't happened yet and I doubt that it will. The more you lower taxes the more the people that can actually hire will save the money. Very few people even realized that their taxes have been lowered for over a year now. I noticed it in my paycheck bc mine is usually the same every pay period. I am saving almost 300 a month from that."

And that's bad because......?? Are you saying because you are saving the money that businesses will save it also and not hire?

 

[gloria460]

That's exactly what they've been doing. Small businesses got a big tax break about a month ago and a lot of those small businesses are major companies that's filing under a S corp if I'm saying it right.

Felicie, I know everybody pretty much want the same thing. A strong economy, jobs, benefits, savings, a decent place to live and gov. that works. It makes no difference what you, Bryand, myself, grease or anybody else thinks... these politicians and people that could make a difference are going to do what's in their best interest.

 

[felicie]

That's exactly what they've been doing. Small businesses got a big tax break about a month ago and a lot of those small businesses are major companies that's filing under a S corp if I'm saying it right.

Felicie, I know everybody pretty much want the same thing. A strong economy, jobs, benefits, savings, a decent place to live and gov. that works. It makes no difference what you, Bryand, myself, grease or anybody else thinks... these politicians and people that could make a difference are going to do what's in their best interest.

I know Gloria and that's why people like us keep talking about it and can't just ignore it hoping it will go away. It wont. So keep talking and posting, you're one smart cookie and a force to be reckoned with not ignored.

 

[LaurieJim]

When we had our electrical business, we always made sure we hired local people in our area, local hiring brings more money into your respected county, ect. and pays bills and puts food on the table.

In the last 10 years, I have seen more companies in construction go under as they could not compete against the influx of builders who hired painters, drywallers, roofers ect who were not here legally.I blame the goverment for not coming down hard on the builders who may have hired a sub contractor and that sub hired non legals.

My friend is the manager of a check cashing business and told me that Fridays are their busiest days as workers are sending money to Mexico in droves,yes it does make that business money but what about all the small mom and pop companies that had to shut down as they cant compete.

If you want to make a difference in your area, hire local, buy local and keep a local neighbor in business, this is how you help stimulate the economy and it starts at the local level.

This isnt a rant against Mexican workers, but someone should look in to taxing that money thats being sent there, sure they work hard but so do the American workforce.

On the s-corp, We did that once, more trouble than its worth, its better to be a sole prop. imo and pay a man or woman a decent wage and yes I have hired women Electricians in the past and they do as fine of a job as a man lol.

We kept ours going as long as we could, it hurts to see your employees you have had with you for years have to stand in the unemployment line!

Laurie

 

[greasemonkey]

I know Gloria and that's why people like us keep talking about it and can't just ignore it hoping it will go away. It wont. So keep talking and posting, you're one smart cookie and a force to be reckoned with not ignored.

Awesome point, Felicie!

That is how the tea party got so much momentum. People are tired of the elected not doing the will of the people and nobody is going to stand for it anymore. To simply put our collective hands in the air and say "they are just going to do what they want" is not right. IF they do that they now know that they will pay the price. They will NOT get re-elected and they will be rewarded with re-election if they do what is best for the people that elected them.

Without this common discussion then we really would have nothing. Right now more and more people are stepping up and talking about these issues and we are holding people in office accountable. Without discussing it and sharing views it would never happen.

So I also, will keep talking about it and more and more other people will as well. The more you talk about and listen to others the more informed we all become... and the less the politiicians will get away with.

 

[jelsmith]

Awesome point, Felicie!

That is how the tea party got so much momentum. People are tired of the elected not doing the will of the people and nobody is going to stand for it anymore. To simply put our collective hands in the air and say "they are just going to do what they want" is not right. IF they do that they now know that they will pay the price. They will NOT get re-elected and they will be rewarded with re-election if they do what is best for the people that elected them.

Without this common discussion then we really would have nothing. Right now more and more people are stepping up and talking about these issues and we are holding people in office accountable. Without discussing it and sharing views it would never happen.

So I also, will keep talking about it and more and more other people will as well. The more you talk about and listen to others the more informed we all become... and the less the politiicians will get away with.

The tea party is basically Republican....it has only supported Republicans at this point anyway and most of their platform is what I would consider a Republican platform....BAH! Ill preach anarchy to the day I day...lawlessness and chaos...... and doing what you want, when you want and how you want

 

[felicie]

The tea party is basically Republican....it has only supported Republicans at this point anyway and most of their platform is what I would consider a Republican platform....BAH! Ill preach anarchy to the day I day...lawlessness and chaos...... and doing what you want, when you want and how you want

are ya gonna hurt anybody?

 

[greasemonkey]

The tea party is basically Republican....it has only supported Republicans at this point anyway and most of their platform is what I would consider a Republican platform....BAH! Ill preach anarchy to the day I day...lawlessness and chaos...... and doing what you want, when you want and how you want

ummmmm... please read up on it a bit more. The tea party candidates through out old gaurd republicans in the Primarys. If the republican wasnt CONSERVATIVE he was ousted for a real conservative candidate. It most likely cost the republicans the majority in the senate.
Who cares? The tea party is about fiscal conservatism and following the constitution. So, of course it would be incredibly rare to have them endorse or run as a democrat. Democrats, don't adhere to any values of fiscal repsonsibility or conservative values. They are big govt., big tax, big spend your money types.
If a democrat eschewed the values of a conservative fiscal platform then the tea party would readily endorse that person.
Your anarchy stance might make you a great candidate to join the libertarian party by the way, jelsmith.

 

[jelsmith]

ummmmm... please read up on it a bit more. The tea party candidates through out old gaurd republicans in the Primarys. If the republican wasnt CONSERVATIVE he was ousted for a real conservative candidate. It most likely cost the republicans the majority in the senate.
Who cares? The tea party is about fiscal conservatism and following the constitution. So, of course it would be incredibly rare to have them endorse or run as a democrat. Democrats, don't adhere to any values of fiscal repsonsibility or conservative values. They are big govt., big tax, big spend your money types.
If a democrat eschewed the values of a conservative fiscal platform then the tea party would readily endorse that person.
Your anarchy stance might make you a great candidate to join the libertarian party by the way, jelsmith.

Yes I guess if I was ever forced to pick.... I had to go read what their platform was.....but sounds about right....Maximum Freedom Minimum Government....

 

[jelsmith]

are ya gonna hurt anybody?

LOL...not unless someone drops by to steal my stockpile of beans or something....

 

[greasemonkey]

Jelsmith, that was the fastest response ever!!! LOL, I was in process of fixing my post to not sound like such a smart_ _ _ and you posted right in there! Wow.

LOL I guess I will leave as is now then since I didn't offend you thank goodness.

 

[jelsmith]

takes one to know one grease No j/k I didnt think it was smart assy at all

 

[footdr]

Pelosi on c-span today, what a hypocrit....

She's admonishing Republicans for not voting to fund Scientific Research along with the billions of pork attached.

This from a Congress that defunded NASA causing 1000's to lose their jobs, jobs they already had. So seems they wouldn't need to create more scientific "questionable" jobs if they had funded NASA as they should have.

Now we pay to hitch a ride with Russia!

What jerks.

Hope the Bill is defeated. Oh! and they passed the Internet Regulation bill per the FCC.

Get the Government out of our lives and leave running Education and Health Care to the States, as should be

Happy Holidays!

 

[BBKPoker]

I think its hilarious when Republicans complain about Democrats supposedly having out of control spending. Little do they realize that Bush simply continued to spend for wars using unbudgeted emergency deficit spending authorizations, whereas Obama has accounted for every dollar spent to be spent in Iraq/Afghanistan under his administration, placed it his administration's budget (something Bush NEVER did) and for the most part hasn't presented a bill in the term of his presidency aside from the two stimulus packages that haven't specifically addressed and spelled out how they were paid for.

I mean even Obama's Healthcare bill reduces deficit spending by $130 billion (and that isn't a partisan number, its agreed upon by the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office).

THAT is fiscal responsibility, in the midst of taking over from the most absurd spending president (GWB) that we've had in our history. Compare Obama's spending to Bush's bank and auto bailout spending and irresponsible war spending. TARP is essentially one big toxic slush fund. It should be easy to quickly realize that the republicans have about zero claim to being the party of fiscal responsibility.

I'm not saying the dems are responsible either at cutting spending, both parties are frankly terrible about earmarks, which will probably always be the case because pretty much the entire American public wants all the services and qualities that the government provides while simultaneously expecting that they will magically happen without either raised taxes or deficit spending. As a result politicians from both sides of the aisle will crow about reducing taxes, but then vote for vast social services and projects that expand government spending while trying to avoid raising taxes digging us even further into the financial mess we're in.

There is a tremendous amount of government waste that can still be cut, but the idea that pretty much any republican during Bush's presidency was a truly fiscal conservative with the one exception of Ron Paul just completely ignores the track record of how conservatives spent under Bush. Neither party can remotely claim to own the issue of being financially conservative. Both parties are awful. If you were to pick the party that has been worse in the last forty years or so it would certainly be the Republicans.... I mean seriously, nice tax cut to the wealthy during the most expensive war effort ever, Bush.