just unlucky?

[noluckever67]

never been much a fan of video poker but today decided to give it a go and was astonished by the results..i have been sent a csv file of the games i played and will happily give it to anyone that wants to see it..over 200 games played and on the double or nothing feature collected gambling nomore than 2x except on 4 occassions absolutely 0...i mean nothing not a single win now forgive me if im wrong but that does not sound like a fair game to me...i got a reply to my email ill put it below but is this way out of the ordinary at video poker??? i did ask them if i could put the results of these games here which i guess i didnt need to do but did...i woul dlove to hear what others say...

Please find attached the list of Deuces Wild games you've played.
Please
feel free to comment this on Casinomeister, I'm sure all will agree
that you
experienced a very unlucky streak but the games are 100% randomised.

Kind regards,

Andrew
Saints Gaming Support


sorry but if it was random then ace and king woul dnever ever unless a miraclehappened appear every second hand....

 

[Kaynos72]

Post the results please.

 

[noluckever67]

file

Its a csv file is this ok to post??

 

[lojo]

I don't see the option in 'manage attachments'... might have to zip it first or post from an url if it is available that way. Try it and see? or rename it .txt, it should post if not over the size limit.

 

[The Dude]

Its a csv file is this ok to post??

I've just added it to the "Attachment" options.

 

[noluckever67]

lojo

Ive sent you an private message regarding the file....

 

[lojo]

Ive sent you an private message regarding the file....

Thanks and I replied... but before I saw Bryan's post.

When you are responding up next to the smiley face is a paperclip. click it to manage attachments. Browse to where it is on your computer, open, upload. It should appear if it is under 97.7k in size

 

[lojo]

noluckever's attachment

Was emailed to me as .txt

haven't opened it

didn't work, let me try again... or noluckever... do you see it as a .csv? You can upload it the way mentioned above.. the attachments you sent me were just the email, not the csv. Sorry.

 

[noluckever67]

well

Thanks and I replied... but before I saw Bryan's post.

When you are responding up next to the smiley face is a paperclip. click it to manage attachments. Browse to where it is on your computer, open, upload. It should appear if it is under 97.7k in size

emm i think brain surgery woul dbe easier than understanding this im not pc minded just know how to lose at an exceptional rate...lol

 

[noluckever67]

heres the file

god i hope this works ill be taking up nuclear physics next.

 

[lojo]

I'll walk you through it

You'll click 'post reply' to reply to this message

Above our typing you should see 'fonts, sizes, A, and a paper clip. Click on the paper clip.

At the top of the window that pops up you'll see browse and upload

browse and find it on your computer
open
upload
+++++++++++

Oops, my bad, just found it, here ya go

 

[lojo]

god i hope this works ill be taking up nuclear physics next.

YAY!!!!!!:yahoo::clap:

 

[Eliot Jacobson]

Request

Please request a CSV file that includes your upcard for the double up feature and the casino's upcard for the double up feature (rather than just raw win/loss results), forward it to me, and I'll run a quick chi-squared test on it.

Also, please post the name and URL of the casino.

 

[noluckever67]

i did

Please request a CSV file that includes your upcard for the double up feature and the casino's upcard for the double up feature (rather than just raw win/loss results), forward it to me, and I'll run a quick chi-squared test on it.

request this and thats what they sent me....

 

[lojo]

What an amazing offer from E.J.

Please post the casino name and URL, noluckever, and copy and paste Elliot's request into an email to the casino.

 

[noluckever67]

the site

Please request a CSV file that includes your upcard for the double up feature and the casino's upcard for the double up feature (rather than just raw win/loss results), forward it to me, and I'll run a quick chi-squared test on it.

Also, please post the name and URL of the casino.

is www.saintsgaming.com thnx and ive asked them to send me exactly what you suggested i asked for...thnx a million..

 

[SlotsWizard]

I'm pretty sure it's just bad luck. Of the 193 times you tried to double, you:

Lost 97 times (50.26%)
Won 83 times (43.01%)
Pushed 13 times (6.73%)

If you eliminate pushes the ratios are:
Loss = 53.89%
Won = 46.11%

That doesn't seem like too far of a stretch, and considering that it's Playtech software I don't think you were dealt unfair cards... but that's just my 2. I will await Eliot's results for more mathematically relevant info.

 

[noluckever67]

percentages

ok so if you try to double more than 2x and lose it still lookslike your getting a fair % of winnings???? so i lose all had 0 return but the % look good?

 

[SlotsWizard]

ok so if you try to double more than 2x and lose it still lookslike your getting a fair % of winnings???? so i lose all had 0 return but the % look good?

It's hard to say exactly what happened in your particular session without being able to see the cards that were dealt to you for the doubles.

Overall your return for the session was around 80%, about 80% from the game itself and 80% from the double-up. I'm not sure how far that deviates from expectation for the sample size; perhaps Eliot or Aka23 can shed some light on that.

 

[noluckever67]

i emailed

there support a good few hours ago requesting that information but so far no reply even though the first email came back very quickly. all i will say there was an absolutely enormous amount of those aces or kings on the second turn..id have expected on at least a few occassions to have doubled thru 2x before collecting..alas not once...quite extraordinary...

 

[SlotsWizard]

id have expected on at least a few occassions to have doubled thru 2x before collecting..alas not once...quite extraordinary...

The log seems to indicate that, for the most part, you kept trying to double until you lost.

I only focused on "chunks" of doubles but here's what it looks like:

3247372830: Won twice, then collected
3247386940: Pushed once, won three times, then lost
3247395423: Won twice, then collected
3247412299: Won twice, then lost
3247416086: Won three times, then lost
3247435756: Won three times, then lost
3247442377: Pushed once, won twice, then lost
3247448843: Won twice, then lost
3247460109: Won twice, then lost
3247470223: Won four times, then lost
3247475500: Won twice, then lost
3247480983: Won three times, then lost
3247493226: Pushed once, won once, then lost
3247519027: Pushed once, won three times, then lost
3247526420: Won, pushed, lost
3247532255: Pushed, won, lost
3247533787: Won three times, then lost
3247540336: Won three times, then lost
3247541379: Won twice, then lost
3247543551: Won twice, then lost
3247545956: Won twice, then lost
3247549404: Won three times, then lost
3247555304: Won twice, then lost
3247571519: Won twice, then lost
3247576704: Won four times, then pushed, then lost
3247577846: Won twice, then lost

So it seems like you kept pushing your luck... and we all know what happens when you do that.

 

[aka23]

never been much a fan of video poker but today decided to give it a go and was astonished by the results..i have been sent a csv file of the games i played and will happily give it to anyone that wants to see it..over 200 games played and on the double or nothing feature collected gambling nomore than 2x except on 4 occassions absolutely 0...i mean nothing not a single win now forgive me if im wrong but that does not sound like a fair game to me...i got a reply to my email ill put it below but is this way out of the ordinary at video poker??? i did ask them if i could put the results of these games here which i guess i didnt need to do but did...i woul dlove to hear what others say...

You won more than 2x several times. However, you kept redoubling until you lost it.

For example, in hand 3247576694 you won 4x bet. You doubled and won to make it 8x bet. You doubled and won a 2nd time to make it 16x bet. You then doubled and won a 3rd time, increasing the win to 32x bet. You repeated a 4th time for a 64x win. You kept going and tied on the 5th double, maintaining your 64x win. Then you tried to double a 6th time for a 128x win, but lost it all.

This type of sequence was repeated quite a few times. I'm not sure what you expected to happen, but the results don't look odd to me.

 

[aka23]

The log seems to indicate that, for the most part, you kept trying to double until you lost...

So it seems like you kept pushing your luck... and we all know what happens when you do that.

Yes, I came to the same conclusion... at about the same time too. I was in the middle of typing my post above when you posted.

 

[hippo925]

i think it's great you guys went through the trouble to help answer the OP's question. that's what makes this forum so invaluable

 

[Zoozie]

I had the following happen to me at Intercasino doubling:

17 attempts:
1 tie
2 win
14 loss
Log fil can be found here:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/screen-shots-that-suck.6715/?highlight=intercasino

I guess it is not that rare, but it was the first time I doubled since I got cheated at EH and then I run into this unlucky streak.


I was lured into doubling at Intercasino because it count as wager. But I guess it comes at a price. And I am TOTALLY unable to explain why ALL doubling cards (34 cards) all are clubs!!!! This was noticed by Winbig.

 

[aka23]

Something seems quite wrong. I don't get all clubs when I double at Intercasino, so it seem that the other suits are expected to occur. The odds of getting 34 clubs in a row (17 1st card drawn and 17 2nd card drawn) are ((13/52)*(12/51))^17 = 1.21 x10^-21... extremely unlikely to occur randomly. If all ~6 billion persons on Earth doubled 17 times at Intercasino in every minute of every day, we'd expect one person to get all clubs each ~250,000 years or so.

The win/loss results are also rare, but the sample size is not large enough to confirm it is not just a bad run.

 

[Zoozie]

Thanks Aka.
It is weird with the clubs. As a programmer my first thought is that it is a log display error for the doubling suits. I also did not notice all the clubs when I was doubling. Still if it is not, that was a quite legendary double session I had there, which I doubt. If I believe in odds that extreme I would already be building a meteor shelter in my backyard.

 

[Eliot Jacobson]

Zoozie re: 197382

I had the following happen to me at Intercasino doubling:

17 attempts:
1 tie
2 win
14 loss

This has a chi squared value of 9, with 2 degrees of freedom. The probability that this result (or something worse) occured at random is 1.11%. This is unlucky, but not signifincantly so. As aka23 noted, there are not enough trials to make a reliable inference.

See Old / Expired Link

The matter of the clubs may be an internal glitch with their log keeping, otherwise that is very significant.

 

[noluckever67]

the reply

came from saints gamoing and NO they did not give me the reply i asked for regarding the casinos upturned card...all i can say is scandalous and obviously something way wrong....

 

[Zoozie]

The matter of the clubs may be an internal glitch with their log keeping, otherwise that is very significant.

I just tested doubling again and I found out the log history of the doubling is bugged. It is always displayed as clubs as I suspected though it was not clubs in the doubling game. I played Bonus 50-line double bonus VP.

I will PM Ryan Hartley about this minor glitch.

Zoozie

 

[Eliot Jacobson]

Normal result

god i hope this works ill be taking up nuclear physics next.

Greetings,

Your original post stated that you believed the house was getting an unexpectedly high number of Aces and Kings. This data file does not contain information about the cards you received, so I cannot make that analysis.

Based on the data provided for the double feature,

Loss: 97
Push: 14
Win: 83

This has a chi squared value of 1.697.

The probability that this (or something worse) happens at random is 42.81%. That makes this a very normal result, with no indication that the results are skewed in any way.

 

[noluckever67]

or

I just tested doubling again and I found out the log history of the doubling is bugged. It is always displayed as clubs as I suspected though it was not clubs in the doubling game. I played Bonus 50-line double bonus VP.

I will send an PM for about Ryan for this minor glitch.

Zoozie

maybe the results they sent me were NOT the true results maybe manufactured????

 

[SlotsWizard]

came from saints gamoing and NO they did not give me the reply i asked for regarding the casinos upturned card...all i can say is scandalous and obviously something way wrong....

I really don't see anything scandalous based on the log.

Out of the 99 doubling "sessions" you only stopped and collected twice. The other 97 times you kept going until you lost:

• 46 times you lost the first double attempt
• 26 times you won or pushed the first attempt and lost the second attempt
• 14 times you won or pushed the first two attemps and lost the third attempt
• 7 times you won or pushed the first three attempts and lost the fourth attempt
• 3 times you won or pushed the first four attempts and lost the fifth attempt
• 1 time you won or pushed the first five attempts and lost the sixth attempt

You lost right away 46 times, and won or pushed at least once the other 51 attempts.

maybe the results they sent me were NOT the true results maybe manufactured????

Zoozie's log is from play at a Wagerlogic casino. Your results are from a Playtech casino.

 

[noluckever67]

you know

what really bugs me in all this...this garbage about RANDOM that saints gaming and all other casinos mention .EVERYONE knows its NOT random if it was how can the house edge be worked out??? ive sent no0w 3 emails to saints asking for these results bit no luck..the EXAGGERATED high amount of A +K that came up was random???lol...ONLINE casinos are sorted why dont they at saidnts just say this instead of sticking to the RANDOM p***...sorry but i feel disgusted by some of the posts on here but prob people have there income to protect...you gamble over 180 hands and randomness would show that at least 5-6 times you would expect to get at least a return but FIXED means you will get 0 and thats exactly the return i got...

 

[SlotsWizard]

FIXED means you will get 0 and thats exactly the return i got...

But that's only because you kept doubling until you lost. If you keep flipping a coin eventually it will land on tails.

 

[noluckever67]

But that's only because you kept doubling until you lost. If you keep flipping a coin eventually it will land on tails.

thats just not true...if a RANDOM game came along you would NEVER get an ACE or a king on so many occassions on the first or second card...YOU take away the first 2 times i gambles a random MACHINE WOULD GIVE YOU A HIGHER % OF WINS ON THE 3RD..SINCE I WAS ONLY PLAYING 10P GAMES HARDLY WORTH COLLECTING AFTER 2 GAMBLES BUT ON SUCH A FEW OCCASSIONS GETTING TO THE 3RD OR 4TH GAMBLE MEANS ITS not CORRECT AND SAINTS GAMINGS REFUSAL TO GIVE ME THE CASINOS UPTURNED CARDS ALSO GOES TO PROVE THAT it is not RANDOM.

 

[SlotsWizard]

thats just not true...if a RANDOM game came along you would NEVER get an ACE or a king on so many occassions on the first or second card...YOU take away the first 2 times i gambles a random MACHINE WOULD GIVE YOU A HIGHER % OF WINS ON THE 3RD..SINCE I WAS ONLY PLAYING 10P GAMES HARDLY WORTH COLLECTING AFTER 2 GAMBLES BUT ON SUCH A FEW OCCASSIONS GETTING TO THE 3RD OR 4TH GAMBLE MEANS ITS not CORRECT AND SAINTS GAMINGS REFUSAL TO GIVE ME THE CASINOS UPTURNED CARDS ALSO GOES TO PROVE THAT it is not RANDOM.

Chance of losing first double = 50%, your results = 46.46%
Chance of doubling once = 50%, your results = 51.51%
Chance of doubling twice = 25%, your results = 25.25%
Chance of doubling three times = 12.500%, your results = 11.11%
Chance of doubling four times = 6.250%, your results = 4.04%
Chance of doubling five times = 3.125%, your results = 1.01%

A little on the unlucky side with successive doubling attempts, but not so much that it can be called rigged. I do understand your frustration though.

 

[lojo]

nle67, what a priveledge to have had your hands looked at here, no? Yes These guys are stating real relevent facts... it doesn't matter what the aces or kings were, when... the statistics show a fair game in a very small sample. Ya gotta give it up. If you don't think the games are random, don't play them.

 

[Zoozie]

Zoozie's log is from play at a Wagerlogic casino. Your results are from a Playtech casino.

Many years ago I tested doubling Playtech VP. I doubled so I had a total of 1000 wins or lose, and I actually ended a little over 500 wins. It is the only software I have tested for fairness doubling.

Zoozie

 

[noluckever67]

so

Many years ago I tested doubling Playtech VP. I doubled so I had a total of 1000 wins or lose, and I actually ended a little over 500 wins. It is the only software I have tested for fairness doubling.

Zoozie

WHY DONT THEY GIVE ME THE PLAY I ASKED FOR?I HAVE NOW ON SEVRAL OCCASSIONS ASKED FOR THE HANDS AND CARDS DEALT YET THEY REFUSE????? IS THIS NORMAL???

 

[noluckever67]

FINAL PROOF

THIS IS THE REPLY REGARDING THE CASINO SHOWING UPTURNED CARDS


Hi James,



Unfortunately there is no interface to export gaming history to csv files. You can view all your history through your access. I am sorry you feel the way you do.



This matter is now closed.


YET YESTERDAY THEY HAPPILY SUPPLIED ME WITH THE SAME CSV FILE ??????????? RIGGED NO DOUBTS ABOUT IT.

 

[SlotsWizard]

THIS IS THE REPLY REGARDING THE CASINO SHOWING UPTURNED CARDS


Hi James,



Unfortunately there is no interface to export gaming history to csv files. You can view all your history through your access. I am sorry you feel the way you do.



This matter is now closed.


YET YESTERDAY THEY HAPPILY SUPPLIED ME WITH THE SAME CSV FILE ??????????? RIGGED NO DOUBTS ABOUT IT.

You lost 20 quid after playing 226 hands of video poker and 193 attempts to double. I'd say you got quite a bit of play considering that you kept trying to double until you ultimately lost.

If you truly feel that it's rigged then you should probably either stop playing at that casino, or take a break for a little while.

 

[noluckever67]

maybe your right

But id like some explaining of this email i recieved from them which is an pbvious lie and why woul dthey lie????

Hi James,



Unfortunately there is no interface to export gaming history to csv files. You can view all your history through your access. I am sorry you feel the way you do.



This matter is now closed.

 

[SlotsWizard]

But id like some explaining of this email i recieved from them which is an pbvious lie and why woul dthey lie????

Hi James,



Unfortunately there is no interface to export gaming history to csv files. You can view all your history through your access. I am sorry you feel the way you do.



This matter is now closed.

I'm not sure. I had never heard of Saints Gaming before this thread. There are better Playtechs to play at. I would recommend Bet365.

 

[noluckever67]

Heres a Q

are casinos not obliged to give you on request these things surely if they had nowt to hide it wouldnt be a problem????

 

[SlotsWizard]

are casinos not obliged to give you on request these things surely if they had nowt to hide it wouldnt be a problem????

Due to the unregulated nature of the industry, unfortunately, they aren't obligated to do anything. Any "obligation" they feel is either a moral obligation or a procedural obligation set by their company.

 

[noluckever67]

whats so unfair

Due to the unregulated nature of the industry, unfortunately, they aren't obligated to do anything. Any "obligation" they feel is either a moral obligation or a procedural obligation set by their company.

Is that yesterda they were happy to give me that csv file but since yesterday when i first emailed them they do not wish to give me the one that shows the upturned cards and i know this is because the spectacular amount of aces and kings that show up...id def steer clear of saints gaming thats just dodgy to me like.

 

[lojo]

I can see where that would raise a red flag for your noluckever, especially where they knew about the thread, and then one of the most important independant industry analysts offered to look at it for you they all of a sudden can't produce a file... I'm not saying I think they are dodgy, just that I understand being upset in that respect.

 

[noluckever67]

I know

I can see where that would raise a red flag for your noluckever, especially where they knew about the thread, and then one of the most important independant industry analysts offered to look at it for you they all of a sudden can't produce a file... I'm not saying I think they are dodgy, just that I understand being upset in that respect.

And this makes it even harder to take cos i know within myself its not a fair game ive played plytech b4 and you always get a turn even at low stakes.And this refusal to give me that file is as far as i can see basically admitting theres something not right with it either.Surely its a players right to get a look at where his has gone on any game

 

[lojo]

If the overall result was out of whack, or if you hadn't doubled the way you did, which gave you that result... it might get looked at closer... but it looks like a fair game from what I can see and the little I know of statitics and chai tea and all. Hope you find some peace with it somehow.