Question Is it time for perceived persistence to be banned?

[Reelsoffun]

Ok unless you been living in a cave, we are all familiar with the 3 pots type of games, there is hundreds of them.

With nice shiny graphics slowly getting bigger to offer the illusion that its gonna pop any minute!, but look into the help screens and you will be told that its just for show and has no bearing on when indeed they will pop to award the player a feature, its all random.

This is where my gripe is, just because something is allowed don't mean it should be, even though most players know they are random some will not, either by not having looked at the rules page or are just so conditioned into thinking "its due" or "its gotta pop soon" because of the visual display, of course the providers know this and are taking full advantage of it.

I my opinion, and from feedback from several of my gambler friends these games have a very high ability to cause significant harm to players, by playing longer than intending and spending more than were going to, and in turn leads to a point its very difficult to leave in an "empty" state, which of course being random dosen't really exist!

This is not to be confused with persistence slots, although im not overly a fan of those either but the ones where you have a clear goal of what to collect before being awarded the feature, bonus etc are to me, just acceptable ( eg extra chilli collecting coins etc )

For this reason I really feel that the perceived collector type should be banned for the same reason bonus buys were, bordering on predatory.

On the other side of the coin, some people do genuinely like these games, so would it be fair to outright ban them?, that of course is the dilemma here, in the same way auto spins were.

On one hand I don't want to contribute to the nanny state approach, but on the other for the few to miss out to save the many maybe this would be the right decision?

The added bonus if they were to be banned is that providers would be forced to think of something new!

Thoughts everyone?

 

[Playford7]

Are some not compensated? They certainly feel that way, game of thrones on coral for example you can build up the feature to the best version on 10p then switch to any stake and it stays upgraded.

I done it a few months back of scraps of free spin winnings and played on a quid and won over £150x

They are horrible though, as there’s always jackpots too which no sod ever wins.

 

[SYPlayer95]

Are some not compensated? They certainly feel that way, game of thrones on coral for example you can build up the feature to the best version on 10p then switch to any stake and it stays upgraded.

I done it a few months back of scraps of free spin winnings and played on a quid and won over £150x

They are horrible though, as there’s always jackpots too which no sod ever wins.

Not compensated, just opened up certain features that are across all stakes.

 

[Reelsoffun]

Are some not compensated? They certainly feel that way,

I agree with they feel that way, eg rarely trigger big from the off, but online slots are not allowed to be compensated.

game of thrones on coral for example you can build up the feature to the best version on 10p then switch to any stake and it stays upgraded.

On games like that it should be a case of its tracking "average stake" etc

 

[geordiecolin]

Never heard of the geezer and I have been here years .@perceivedpersistance does not come up in any of my searches. What rules did he break?
Bit quick to start testing your powers eh @Reelsoffun ?

 

[johnnymcc1966]

All bonuses should be just that,a bonus. Having to choose features to allegedly determine your chances of a decent bonus is way out of order. No gambling of bonuses or enhanced features either,unless randomly triggered eg 4 or 5 scatters giving extra free games. Banning these should have been what the UKGC should have done instead of the nonsense of '2.5 second spin times.'

 

[SYPlayer95]

I agree with they feel that way, eg rarely trigger big from the off, but online slots are not allowed to be compensated.

Not strictly true...

 

[Reelsoffun]

Not strictly true...

ok? which bit, care to elaborate?

 

[dunover]

Never heard of the geezer and I have been here years .@perceivedpersistance does not come up in any of my searches. What rules did he break?
Bit quick to start testing your powers eh @Reelsoffun ?

The OP has misspelt it - it's 'perceived persistence' is it not?

 

[SYPlayer95]

ok? which bit, care to elaborate?

Just if you look hard enough, you will find compensated slots...

 

[dunover]

ok? which bit, care to elaborate?

Firstly jackpots, of which the likelihood increases with stake i.e. one 20p play gets you 1 'ticket' per spin whereas a £2 spin gets you ten.

In bonus rounds, reels can be different for each individual free game, and different altogether from base games.

The games like Wild Swarm will compensate their bonus rounds to reflect average stakes. (though The Bandit doesn't think so!).

Collector aspects can be varied according to play results up to the point of trigger. See that awful Ragnarok game where 3OAK of the required character/warrior change in frequency so obviously in the run-up to triggering.

 

[Reelsoffun]

Changing the odds via more tickets, or using different strips don't make them compensated in the same way as purposely changing odds due to past play, each element is still randomly chosen is what I meant.

But this does as always highlight what a grey area slots can work in.

 

[geordiecolin]

Ok unless you been living in a cave, we are all familiar with the 3 pots type of games, there is hundreds of them.

With nice shiny graphics slowly getting bigger to offer the illusion that its gonna pop any minute!, but look into the help screens and you will be told that its just for show and has no bearing on when indeed they will pop to award the player a feature, its all random.

I understand that when @Playford7 gets home off the rig and comes into contact with estrogen and progesterone he suffers the same fate with his swannicles and he can not find a help section

 

[dunover]

Changing the odds via more tickets, or using different strips don't make them compensated in the same way as purposely changing odds due to past play, each element is still randomly chosen is what I meant.

But this does as always highlight what a grey area slots can work in.

No, I see your point but it does actually have elements of compensation. When you play many collection games or stored value ones a portion of the RTP depends on previous play, plus the odds of certain configurations and outcomes changes prior to a certain trigger point, as I explained on the Ragnarok feature example. There is a thread somewhere where members observed this at the time of release.

Another example is those fixed jackpot shitter games with the 4 jackpot levels, say 1000x for top Major one and 5x for mini. Try hitting the major on any of those games as a new player before you've paid up front for all or most of it!

 

[2Slots]

Yes they should be.

The problem is that slot designers are clever people and would find some other loophole to exploit so I wonder if it would be better for the regulators to require testing houses to asses whether a slot has 'tilt mechanics' i.e. something solely designed to get the player to lose control and play more.

It would probably be complicated because first they would have to consider what a 'tilt mechanic' really is but it would also mean that the slot designers would be more careful with their ideas because their bosses wouldn't be too happy to invest in a new slot only for it to be rejected at testing because it failed the 'tilt' test.

I played a slot (forgot the name but not the experience!) where it was obvious that a scatter was landing on a reel that needed it on the previous spin way too frequently to be random because two scatters would land a lot and it happened every time after.

Same as the top/bottom of a scatter being just outside the in-play reels way too frequently because that's a grey area but it's designed to tilt. Still remember a guy in the bookies losing his s**t every time it happened and screaming 'it's right there ffs'!

I'd say the gold standard for doing annoyance well and legally is bonanza

The designers went to all the hassle of designing the reels so that symbols drop in the wrong way or are blocked all the time but it's not going to make anyone think that something could happen on the next spin but seeing those enough times and you will be thinking 'f this slot'!

 

[Reelsoffun]

Another example is those fixed jackpot shitter games with the 4 jackpot levels, say 1000x for top Major one and 5x for mini. Try hitting the major on any of those games as a new player before you've paid up front for all or most of it!

I too see your point, but certainly for the above, the technical standards are clear, it is supposed to be random, and should have the exact same chance to win the top 1000x on the first try or the 100th try.

Waiting for enough to be paid up front or accumulated before you can win it, as you put it, is not permitted in the UKGC technical standards as that would be classed as "compensation" unless that's been changed of course.

But we are derailling a little this was more about the visual pots getting ready to pop mechanic, rather than random versus compensated.

 

[interlog]

Ok unless you been living in a cave, we are all familiar with the 3 pots type of games, there is hundreds of them.

With nice shiny graphics slowly getting bigger to offer the illusion that its gonna pop any minute!, but look into the help screens and you will be told that its just for show and has no bearing on when indeed they will pop to award the player a feature, its all random.

This is where my gripe is, just because something is allowed don't mean it should be, even though most players know they are random some will not, either by not having looked at the rules page or are just so conditioned into thinking "its due" or "its gotta pop soon" because of the visual display, of course the providers know this and are taking full advantage of it.

I my opinion, and from feedback from several of my gambler friends these games have a very high ability to cause significant harm to players, by playing longer than intending and spending more than were going to, and in turn leads to a point its very difficult to leave in an "empty" state, which of course being random dosen't really exist!

This is not to be confused with persistence slots, although im not overly a fan of those either but the ones where you have a clear goal of what to collect before being awarded the feature, bonus etc are to me, just acceptable ( eg extra chilli collecting coins etc )

For this reason I really feel that the perceived collector type should be banned for the same reason bonus buys were, bordering on predatory.

On the other side of the coin, some people do genuinely like these games, so would it be fair to outright ban them?, that of course is the dilemma here, in the same way auto spins were.

On one hand I don't want to contribute to the nanny state approach, but on the other for the few to miss out to save the many maybe this would be the right decision?

The added bonus if they were to be banned is that providers would be forced to think of something new!

Thoughts everyone?

Yes, I mentioned this before a few days (or perhaps weeks) ago and is something that the UKGC should ban.

All these pots at the top of a slot getting bigger and bigger, wiggling like they are about to pop, only to find out that when you look at the rules of the game, they are not an indication that they indeed are about to pop.

From Extra Chilli More Chilli (BTG) help file:

From Better Barn House Bonanza (Pragmatic)

These animations may encourage those that don't know that these animations are purely for fun to keep pumping money in because "well it is about to pop, the graphics are telling me"

 

[2Slots]

Yes, I mentioned this before a few days (or perhaps weeks) ago and is something that the UKGC should ban.

All these pots at the top of a slot getting bigger and bigger, wiggling like they are about to pop, only to find out that when you look at the rules of the game, they are not an indication that they indeed are about to pop.

From Extra Chilli More Chilli (BTG) help file:

View attachment 229006

From Better Barn House Bonanza (Pragmatic)

View attachment 229007

These animations may encourage those that don't know that these animations are purely for fun to keep pumping money in because "well it is about to pop, the graphics are telling me"

I've always thought that the line in the help file should have to go right underneath the 'glowing pots can explode and trigger something' that is always on the intro screen.

I'm just glad I realised they were some bs on pretty much the first one I played and checked the game info.

Never touched them again but it didn't help reduce my skepticism towards slots when it was one of my earliest experiences!

 

[2Slots]

Another example is those fixed jackpot shitter games with the 4 jackpot levels, say 1000x for top Major one and 5x for mini. Try hitting the major on any of those games as a new player before you've paid up front for all or most of it!

I must be the exception to the rule, I hit a 2000x grand on a megafire blaze one.

I assumed that the major and grand were just for show because the coin reveal were always mini or minor but then it actually landed once.

Never played them again until recently when I rotated all the slots I could remember playing to see if I actually liked them. Answer was no!

 

[2Slots]

I remembered a slot that imo was even more devious wrt perceived persistence than glowing pots.

It was a mexican day of dead theme that had a multi and spin count on the base game where one or both could increment if a symbol landed on the reels.

Started at 1x and 1 spin and I think the max was something like 15 spins and 12x.

The bonus would land really frequently if the counts were low but as they increased the bonus would become less frequent.

At one point the symbol kept landing but no bonus so it maxed out and I never managed to land the bonus once that happened as it would keep the same values every time I opened the slot.

I gave it a good go on 0.10 just to see if it would but it didn't and I wasn't going to invest any more time finding out.