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2.8 million US deaths in 2018(from the CDC)
Corona virus - Covid 19 discussion
- Thread starter shadow123
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Thats my argument, although covid is a horrible disease killing people, it does not warrant the destruction of millions of jobs and businesses, or billions of pounds thrown at it. Its not the plague, it is not even remotely serious enough for the insane measures being used by most governments.
There is a very real risk of serious financial collapse in the coming year or 2, which would result in having little or no NHS, or other basic services we take for granted.
There is a very real risk of serious financial collapse in the coming year or 2, which would result in having little or no NHS, or other basic services we take for granted.
paul7388
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One Big Difference is that Flu has a Vaccine. If Covid had a vaccine then you can compare death rates and state exactly how much more deadly it is.
But there is an interesting statistic.
In just about every month of this year the number of flu and pneumonia caused deaths is Significantly lower than the average. Funny how so many deaths from Covid that affects lungs yet Pneumonia that also hits lungs bad and kills thousands a month seems to have very low death rates this year.
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Or maybe, and this is just a wild guess, the precautionary measures most people took seriously this year are actually working? What would the numbers look like without a shutdown or without people keeping distance and wearing masks?
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Well anything Covid related i will now ignore And regard as piffle.
sick of hearing about it now, sox having a bad stomach is more of a threat and pressing concern than this utter over hyped farce.
sick of hearing about it now, sox having a bad stomach is more of a threat and pressing concern than this utter over hyped farce.
paul7388
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Way to look at it tho is Many types of Pneumonia have a vaccine as well. Kills average of 30,000 a year in UK add that to flu is 40,000 a year deaths from diseases that have vaccines.
So to say maybe precautions are preventing these deaths at the moment. By that reasoning then country should be in constant lockdown to save 40,000+ lives a year.
But okay lets say By end of year we have 100,000 possible Covid deaths in UK.
We end up with 30,000 less Flu and Pneumonia deaths. Add that to deaths from many other diseases and Mental Health not getting treated due to Coranavirus.
Will end up working out in years to come that the Lockdown has not actually saved many lifes when other deaths are factored in.
And that is not even factoring in the devastation that it has done to the whole economy and the general mental health that will take years to sort out. Medical experts have already said the number of people with severe Mental Health at the moment has skyrocketed and they cannot cope with the amount of people seeking help.
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Exactly the same lol, but without the economic destruction.
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All I'm saying is you can't compare lower death rates from flu or pneumonia this year with every other year.
paul7388
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Hope Sox is Okay.
But talking of dogs.
Lot of crap today online about how dog walkers are more than 78% likely to catch this virus.
Dogs don't show any symptoms and no evidence dogs can pass to humans. But dog walkers are now 78% more likely.
Getting to stage i think they are just saying anything.
Anyway like you the whole thing is pissing me off.
That bloody woman just topped it all off today with her stupid new restrictions and rules. Totally clueless woman. Bit like Trump in the sense that no matter what she says and does her followers lap it all up.
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I'm flummoxed as to how she has so much support. She reminds me of one of those small, yappy dogs that just don't stop barking.
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She’s dangerous and feel for my scottish pals stuck with such a silly cow at the helm.
and I don’t think it’s a myth or anything of the like, it’s clearly nasty in some cases.
but it’s as said the Fatties, bame or those whom have poor health anyhow which the Chinese virus affects or all of them...
if it was handled better then maybe I’d not be so pissed off with this as I am, and I’m speaking from a personal and experienced point of view.
what I mean is this is the first year in 9 ive not been able to work offshore, usually even 6 months work for me offshore is worth over 54k... so since March I was laid off as couldn’t get a job for love nor money.
it was only due to a favour I’m back on my feet.
my daughter luckily is smart as hell so education wise she’s striving, but she will have missed out on the social side which personally I believe is huge.
what about those the opposite to the above? No mortgage free home, no savings in the bank, a child that needs interaction and extra support?..
I just cannot fathom how this utter shutdown of everything justifies the means, I really can’t get past it.
Usually those so pro lockdown, stay at home are those working from there anyhow or don’t work or have kids or really need to be out and about socially and In the real world anyway so it doesn’t affect them one little bit..
this Covid nonsense now doesn’t affect me at all, I’m a key worker and have the letter enabling me to travel at will, also have access to my little girl 24/7
so it would be easy for me to say yes lockdown us all forever as it don’t affect me, but I knew how it did before and I’d not wish that on anyone as it’s literally causing suicide and marriage and relationship break ups, single parent families etc..
This is without mentioning the loss of jobs, savings and income, and self esteem..
im sorry for anyone touched health wise to Covid, but we all need to live and this isn’t living for many.
corona cooking is on tonight btw, it’s pretty healthy and no cheese involved.
ben
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I beg your pardon.
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She’s a staffy... hardly some mincing little ankle biter.. reported
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I really feel this deserves more talking about.
It sounds bad, but i think it could actually be a good thing.
It all depends on how the pie is growing.
Will it turn your head into a pork pie, or will you be able to remove it and eat it without causing damage to yourself?
Did covid just solve world hunger?
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Good evening attack helicopters!
again a pretty basic feast but does the job.
roast chicken, potatoes in herbs and garlic, broccoli and green beans in butter.
few Yorkshire puddings, they where homemade ages ago but being squished in the freezer took its toll.
and a dollop or horseradish on the side.
the drink isn’t Isabelle’s Ribena no longer, it’s actually Robinson’s apple and blackcurrant.
best wishes and hope none of you get a cough or sniffle ;-)
again a pretty basic feast but does the job.
roast chicken, potatoes in herbs and garlic, broccoli and green beans in butter.
few Yorkshire puddings, they where homemade ages ago but being squished in the freezer took its toll.
and a dollop or horseradish on the side.
the drink isn’t Isabelle’s Ribena no longer, it’s actually Robinson’s apple and blackcurrant.
best wishes and hope none of you get a cough or sniffle ;-)
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With the announcement by Moderna and Pfizer that vaccines will be ready for use in 2021 how hopeful are you guys on the ending of the pandemic in a couple of years time?
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Back to the 'Sweden got it right' narrative then?
How come they did worse than Norway who did have a lockdown?
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Sweden’s cases per capita are currently 10 times higher than Finland and four times higher than Norway. Last week, the rate at which people were being admitted into hospital was growing faster in Sweden than any other European country. And after several months of relatively low numbers of deaths, Sweden reported more than 100 in three days last week.
But yeah, they are doing great.
Lets just see a more recent graph, rather than the one you used
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I see the world being in a much better place going through 2021, it's too late for this winter now, but assuming the vaccines are approved for use in humans and the anti-vaxxers/sceptics don't get too much traction, we should be able to see a mass-vaccination programme getting underway in the spring of 2021.
Also, because the technology being used in these first two vaccines (mRNA) has now been proven to be effective against this virus there is the hope that more that will come to market (these are the first vaccines in the world to use mRNA). (This also gives hope that other diseases can now be beaten with mRNA, as it's proven to be a very difficult technology to get right, but Covid has really focused a worldwide scientific effort.)
Different countries may have different priorities in terms of how they vaccinate their populations, the UK has already said it's starting with carers and care homes and the oldest in society, and working their way down the age rounds/vulnerability rankings from there.
As such it's going to be a rolling programme going through 2021, but I'm optimistic that going into autumn/winter 2021 we'll have a decent chunk of the population vaccinated, and that the prevalence of the virus in society will be massively reduced.
Things could still go wrong, we could see the virus mutate into a form that the vaccines aren't effective against, for example (in which case new vaccines will be required), but fingers crossed November 2021 is going to see us in a much better place than November 2020.
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Yes, and once the vaccine has started to be rolled out and all the people at most risk are immunised, then the herd immunity part of the recovery can kick in and hopefully we can get back to normal, without the restrictions & lockdowns.
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Yes and even from 'Phase 1' when care homes and their carers are vaccinated, that gives scope for family and friends to visit, where they can't now, stuff like that - so the benefits will be felt long before everyone gets vaccinated.
Plus we can start using the phrase 'herd immunity' in a fashion that actually means something and has some grounding in, y'know, actual science.
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Wheres the graph from?Back to the 'Sweden got it right' narrative then?
How come they did worse than Norway who did have a lockdown?
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Sweden’s cases per capita are currently 10 times higher than Finland and four times higher than Norway. Last week, the rate at which people were being admitted into hospital was growing faster in Sweden than any other European country. And after several months of relatively low numbers of deaths, Sweden reported more than 100 in three days last week.
But yeah, they are doing great.
Lets just see a more recent graph, rather than the one you used
This is what i see for the last 30 days, your shows 40+ per day somewhere in november compared to the 25 on November 9th i found as the highest amount.
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The graph was from the daily mail unfortunately, but other news outlets reporting 42 deaths on Friday I think
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At 5,990, the number of new cases reported on Friday (local time) was the highest since the start of the pandemic.
A further 42 deaths were also recorded, the most for about three months.
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At 5,990, the number of new cases reported on Friday was the highest since the start of the pandemic. A further 42 deaths were also recorded, the most for around three months.
and I don't know the site below, but it reports 61 deaths yesterday
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17 nov
61 new reported deaths
15 084 new reported cases
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Hopefully the vaccine(s) will downgrade the pandemic to something like the seasonal flu.
I do hope people learn something from this one though. One may think this is nothing to worry about or that this is something very serious. It really doesn't matter in the end.
Maybe mankind needed this excercise? I have no doubt there will be far worse pandemics in the future. But sadly hoping that people actually learn from history is most likely another exercise in futility...
♪
This is your wake up call.
Are you ready?
♫
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Svt should be accurate.
It lines up with the graph i was looking at atleast.
The regions in the south are getting alot of cases daily it seems, and deaths aswell unfortunately.
Still very few here (västerbotten at 8) but i guess it will come here sooner or later.
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Fingers crossed the restrictions they are putting in place do have an effect and your numbers start falling again.
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2021 will be a lot better for some places but the pandemic has taken a heavy toll on mankind eg. mental health, economic conditions which could take years to recover. Hong Kong's unemployment rate had nearly doubled and though we have less than 5 local infections everyday the restrictions on the population are among the strictest in the world. Meanwhile, there is a new kid on the block (Sinovac). Hopefully, a dozen or so vaccines can come on the market and help keep the costs low.
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Bloomberg article from August:
The U.S. company and its German rival BioNTech plan to use RNA as a messenger inside cells to produce an immune reaction. The advance could upend vaccine development long after the pandemic.
Almost every antiviral vaccine ever sold works in a similar way: A dead or weakened virus, or a piece of one, is introduced into a healthy person. The weakened virus stimulates the immune system to generate antibodies, protecting the person when the real pathogen threatens to infect them.
Over the decades, this tried-and-true approach has vanquished polio, eradicated smallpox, and reined in chicken pox, measles, and mumps.
The coronavirus vaccines from Moderna Inc., in Cambridge, Mass., and its German rival BioNTech SE propose to immunize people in a radically different way: by harnessing human cells to become miniature vaccine factories in their own right. Instead of virus proteins, the vaccines contain genetic instructions that prompt the body to produce them.
-----^^^-----
Sorry if this makes me a sceptic but I just don't like the sound of this. I hope they offer a more old fashioned vaccine as well, having a choice would make sense to me.
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The U.S. company and its German rival BioNTech plan to use RNA as a messenger inside cells to produce an immune reaction. The advance could upend vaccine development long after the pandemic.
Almost every antiviral vaccine ever sold works in a similar way: A dead or weakened virus, or a piece of one, is introduced into a healthy person. The weakened virus stimulates the immune system to generate antibodies, protecting the person when the real pathogen threatens to infect them.
Over the decades, this tried-and-true approach has vanquished polio, eradicated smallpox, and reined in chicken pox, measles, and mumps.
The coronavirus vaccines from Moderna Inc., in Cambridge, Mass., and its German rival BioNTech SE propose to immunize people in a radically different way: by harnessing human cells to become miniature vaccine factories in their own right. Instead of virus proteins, the vaccines contain genetic instructions that prompt the body to produce them.
-----^^^-----
Sorry if this makes me a sceptic but I just don't like the sound of this. I hope they offer a more old fashioned vaccine as well, having a choice would make sense to me.
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The danish mask study - A randomized controlled trial - has finally been published, the result seen was a 0.3% difference in infections. Masks used were 98% filtration standard
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So really the govts and scientists were telling the truth early on, general masks have a very limited protection effect, and once you factor in the touching and re-use they can become a risk factor of transmission in themselves; social distancing, people with symptoms self-isolating and more washing of hands and surfaces etc..were sensible enough measures. [when do you ever see anyone use a handkerchief these days too]
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---------
So really the govts and scientists were telling the truth early on, general masks have a very limited protection effect, and once you factor in the touching and re-use they can become a risk factor of transmission in themselves; social distancing, people with symptoms self-isolating and more washing of hands and surfaces etc..were sensible enough measures. [when do you ever see anyone use a handkerchief these days too]
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But isnt masks more to protect others from your spit rather than protecting you from theirs?
Thats the impression i always got, and the test does not really touch on that at all.
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It's a long study to read, and I'm not saying don't wear a mask -it's the law in many places- but it could be partly why we're still seeing cases, despite all the measures we are taking, the virus is minute enough [in aerosol form] to penetrate the average mask.
"How SARS-CoV-2 is transmitted—via respiratory droplets, aerosols, or (to a lesser extent) fomites—is not firmly established. Droplets are larger and rapidly fall to the ground, whereas aerosols are smaller (≤5 μm) and may evaporate and remain in the air for hours (
"How SARS-CoV-2 is transmitted—via respiratory droplets, aerosols, or (to a lesser extent) fomites—is not firmly established. Droplets are larger and rapidly fall to the ground, whereas aerosols are smaller (≤5 μm) and may evaporate and remain in the air for hours (
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). Transmission of SARS-CoV-2 may take place through multiple routes. It has been argued that for the primary route of SARS-CoV-2 spread—that is, via droplets—face masks would be considered effective, whereas masks would not be effective against spread via aerosols, which might penetrate or circumnavigate a face mask (
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,
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). Thus, spread of SARS-CoV-2 via aerosols would at least partially explain the present findings. Lack of eye protection may also have been of importance, and use of face shields also covering the eyes (rather than face masks only) has been advocated to halt the conjunctival route of transmission (
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,
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). We observed no statistically significant interaction between wearers and nonwearers of eyeglasses (
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). Recent reports indicate that transmission of SARS-CoV-2 via fomites is unusual (
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), but masks may alter behavior and potentially affect fomite transmission."
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Also bear in mind the uk law and applicable fines for not wearing one, you would hope that the science underpinning the measure was stronger:
Premises where face coverings are required should take reasonable steps to promote compliance with the law.
The police can take measures if members of the public do not comply with this law without a valid exemption and transport operators can deny access to their public transport services if a passenger is not wearing a face covering, or direct them to wear one or leave a service.
If necessary, the police and Transport for London (TfL) officers have enforcement powers including issuing fines of £200 (reduced to £100 if paid within 14 days) for the first offence.
Repeat offenders receiving fines on public transport or in an indoor setting will have their fines doubled at each offence.
After the first offence, there will be no discount. For example, receiving a second fine will amount to £400 and a third fine will be £800, up to a maximum value of £6,400.
Premises where face coverings are required should take reasonable steps to promote compliance with the law.
The police can take measures if members of the public do not comply with this law without a valid exemption and transport operators can deny access to their public transport services if a passenger is not wearing a face covering, or direct them to wear one or leave a service.
If necessary, the police and Transport for London (TfL) officers have enforcement powers including issuing fines of £200 (reduced to £100 if paid within 14 days) for the first offence.
Repeat offenders receiving fines on public transport or in an indoor setting will have their fines doubled at each offence.
After the first offence, there will be no discount. For example, receiving a second fine will amount to £400 and a third fine will be £800, up to a maximum value of £6,400.
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I presume you've spent the last 8 months in the lab working on this Theory, as well as many many years prior to this qualifying yourself in the fields of immunology, virology and disease?
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What theory?
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why would you presume that?
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Have you? If so your insight would be most appreciated.
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You got it, the mask will only protect those around you, and the idea is that if you have the virus, particularly if you are showing no symptoms, the mask will limit the spray from your cough etc. There is also an amount of spray when we talk, and the mask is going to make sure that doesnt go to far.
I havent seen any medical person promote the use of masks to prevent the user from getting it.
With hospital PPE and high grade masks its a different story, the masks are made to help the wearer breath easier, but also to help stop them from breathing in any spray. There is a massive difference between a hospital grade mask and the every day ones that others use.
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IMO masks do more harm than the very limited benefits they may do. You will be breathing in all sorts of bacteria and virus, sod that.
As for the vaccine, you would literally have to be certifiably insane to take it, rushed new type without long term study of possible side effects.
As for the vaccine, you would literally have to be certifiably insane to take it, rushed new type without long term study of possible side effects.
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The police should not even be challenging anyone not wearing a muzzle. Under disability and discrimination law, they are not allowed to, and anyone who has a medical, physical or psychological reason as to why they cant wear a muzzle are exempt.
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Not checked if this has been posted already but im not sure what to think of this......
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The few who have a medical reason not to wear a facemask probably should avoid getting corona too... and better stay quarantined for the time being. I'm pretty sure a breathing tube down their throat isn't helping them medically, physically or psychologically either.
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Don’t wear them mate, i did for a few weeks then realised what utter nonsense it was.
Also you smell your own breath, after a few beers it’s most unpleasant.
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I just put my mask on cuz I'm heading out. Can't get into the shops without it.
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Not even talking about all the cheese and herbs you eat... I understand, permission granted.
And now a Harry-special:
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