Casino Lobby

[aka23]

Given the confession that they were "Fururebet", I rather suspect this is futurebet under a different name, certainly Both CasinoLobby and InterX are both "Total E-Soft", and InterX admit in writing that FutureBet are their software suppliers.

It remains to be tested whether InterX offers these absurd paytables, and whether they too throw up these virtually impossible hands.

InterX is not Total E Soft. InterX does not offer the listed games, the listed paytables, or the virtually impossible hands. InterX has no connection to Total E Soft, aside from being promoted on Gone Gambling at a similar time to a different casino (The Casino Lobby) that is Total E Soft. InterX "confessing" to be Futurebet does not have anything to do with the software used at Total E Soft or The Casino Lobby.

 

[vinylweatherman]

My guess is GG made a mistake when they listed them as Futurebet, similar to the original poster making a mistake when he listed them as Playtech, or other posters elsewhere making a mistake when listing them as DGS.

Good call, AKA23. According to their email to me, Casino Lobby did state their software as being TotalESoft--not FutureBet as we mistakenly stated on the Rating page at GoneGambling at the time.[/QUOTE]

This does not quite explain why BOTH these sites are "Total E-Soft" on their own websites. Similarly, if you see "powered by Playtech" on two different casinos, you would assume both are using Playtech software.
Since these are both powered by Total E-Soft, I presumed that both were different variants of the same basic software, such as the difference between a FLASH Playtech casino, and a DOWNLOAD Playtech casino.

Things look worse now that these dodgy dealings of the white label website have come to light, on top of the highly improbable VP hands.

If InterX are distinct, albeit FutureBet, they will suffer because the previous bad publicity about FutureBet is hard enough to counter, but the Total E-Soft connection they have with Casino Lobby, with the highly questionable VP games, is going to make it look like it's the same old scam under a different set of branding.
With the white label site also "selling" "Microgaming software provided through Roxy Palace" as an option, this too looks highly Questionable.

Someone with contacts should contact both Roxy Palace and MG to see whether this breaks any of their terms, or whether either have indeed made a marketing arrangement with this site.

 

[aka23]

This does not quite explain why BOTH these sites are "Total E-Soft" on their own websites. Similarly, if you see "powered by Playtech" on two different casinos, you would assume both are using Playtech software.

Are you talking about the website Link Removed ( Old/Invalid) ? I don't see anything about Total E-Soft on the site.

 

[thelawnet]

It was my experience that the casino was completely hopeless.

I had some initial trouble depositing, emailed them and they replied, and took my money (no surprise there).

I found the software to be a joke, as noted 108% VP or some such, and craps that did not play correct rules and if you removed a chip from the table would take the money from your balance. I tried to get out as quickly as possible

When I tried to withdrew, the withdrawable and actual balance were different (and did not even add up to the same number, there being a $4.95 discrepancy between the two!), I emailed them to explain, and they ignored it, I also tried contacting them by phone, which they also ignored. I made a withdrawal, which they did not process.

Eventually, some five months later, having emailed a couple of people who had the casino on their site (these were just small personal sites, not really sufficient for a casino), eventually I tracked down various owners contacts, as follows:

jmfbench@aol.com, jmf@wintermarketing.com, casino@ntlworld.com, cw@wintermarketing.com, martinf@wintermarketing.com, jmf@ownacasino.co.uk

I emailed them all, noting they were in the UK (in Wrexham, Wales), and threatening to contact Trading Standards. This got me paid.

The Total Esoft company is a mailbox/shell company registration address in Gibraltar, and does not appear to represent any viable or meaningful corporation.

Here are some contacts

Jonathan Francis jmf@wintermarketing.com

Colin Webster cw@wintermarketing.com

Martin Francis martinf@wintermarketing.com

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Clearly, avoid like the plague.
Nothing to do with playtech, nor futurebet, just garbage.

 

[me_and_ed]

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[totalesoft]

Hi,

I represent Total E Soft, and I have just been made aware of this thread. Hopefully I can provide some input into this, so that we can sort out any issues.

It appears that our new Video Poker games are at the centre of this topic.

We increased our rate for single line video poker as an incentive for our players for a very limited time period only. It was hoped that this would be something that would attract players to our casino. It seems that this was not the best idea, as it has now opened up accusations of "rigging" of the software, as the payout rates were higher than normal. We have now returned the paytables to our standard level.

Our multi-hand games are new and after reading through your points, I have instructed our team to stop all access to the casino software until we have checked into these games.

I would like to state that if it is found that anyone has lost money at The Casino Lobby as a result of any errors of programming, they will be refunded.

It is always our intention to run an honest and enjoyable gaming experience. Please bear in mind that we have been running our software for almost 4 years, and this is the first thread I have ever come across that has offered such criticism. This is not a complaint - no company is perfect, and if a mistake has been made, then I will be the first to stand up and take the heat... as I am doing right now. I just wanted to point out that our reputation has been spotless, we have had thousands of satisfied players, and we are not going to ruin that now by fixing our software.

To answer your other points - we are in no way related or associated with Future Bet, InterX casino or any other company. We created our software to provide another option for players, rather than just becoming another MG or Playtech skin.

I will be back within 48-72 hours with an update on our findings.

Jonathan Francis
Total E Soft

 

[thelawnet]

It appears that our new Video Poker games are at the centre of this topic.

We increased our rate for single line video poker as an incentive for our players for a very limited time period only.

This is BS.

I played at your casino in August 2005. The video poker had the same absurd payouts then, I remember quite distinctly, thinking how it simply was not possible to payout 108%, no casino could ever possibly operate in that manner.

I briefly played the video poker before quickly deciding that it was madness to play on such an impossible-to-be-honest game and fleeing to the apparent safety of the craps table, where the software ate my chips.

Suffice to say you would not be in business operating two days with an honest 108% video poker game, let alone two years, so it is quite obvious that things are not on the level.

 

[totalesoft]

Yes, we had done this for periods in the past as an incentive to bring in players, without any issues - with Deuces Wild and Joker Poker, which is why this thread came as a surprise.

However, you can be assured that it will not occur again. We really do not wish to be associated with offering incentives that could show us in a bad light.

 

[SlotsWizard]

Hi Jonathan,

I don't want to sound like a jerk if you are being truthful, but was the new multi-hand video poker tested thoroughly before releasing it? Surely any developer who was creating a truly fair game would have noticed the near-impossible results I experienced and posted screenshots of. Also, does anyone besides the developer(s) test the games before they are released? Where I work the last phase of testing is what we call "User Acceptance Testing", where the people who will ultimately be using the product are the last ones to really test it. I assure you that if real players had tested your multi-hand video poker, they would not have approved of it in its current state.

 

[happygobrokey]

... I just wanted to point out that our reputation has been spotless, we have had thousands of satisfied players, and we are not going to ruin that now by fixing our software. ...

Jonathan Francis
Total E Soft

are you saying all these people are satisfied with the rigged vp? and that you aren't going to fix it at risk of dissatisfying them? imho, i think they would love to catch at least one pair when they hold a paint card and draw 4x50 cards to it, and would have no qualms accepting these games being down for an indefinite amount of time while they are rectified to be truly random. unless the game is programmed to catch all 50 outs for them when they hold four to the royal...

 

[vinylweatherman]

Yes, we had done this for periods in the past as an incentive to bring in players, without any issues - with Deuces Wild and Joker Poker, which is why this thread came as a surprise.

However, you can be assured that it will not occur again. We really do not wish to be associated with offering incentives that could show us in a bad light.

What is the connection with "ownacasino.co.uk"?

This site sells white label casinos based on Casino Lobby, however, the first option "Package1" seems to be selling Microgaming software "through Roxy Palace". This simply screams ROGUE, as this is a clear breach of trademark (both Microgaming and Roxy Palace). This site simply cannot supply a Microgaming casino, nor can it "sell Roxy Palace" as is implied.
Since the other packages involve Total E-Soft, you have an extremely tight bond with this portal, if not owning it outright.

The argument about bumping up the paytables looks bogus. The one for "Great British Poker" is 109%, this means players will be winning at a rate of 9% of playthrough, and if the game was honest the casino would be in very deep trouble in a very short time. The conclusion is that the game is non-random, utilising some kind of limiting to block certain hands - this seems pretty obvious in the multi-hand game, but would pass unnoticed in the single hand versions.
When you get a high pair, and do not improve on so much as ONE hand, and this is followed by 4 to a flush, with not only a failure to make ONE flush, but a failure to pair one of the two high cards, you have to be an idiot not to suspect something very odd is going on.
With a single hand game though, this would not seem odd, as you don't get to see 50 draw results from your deal all at once.
The single hand games also have these high paytables, and these are not "new"

 

[thelawnet]

Yes, we had done this for periods in the past as an incentive to bring in players

So um, you had an insane paytable and weird VP when I played in 2005, and you have it now, but rest assured everybody, that's a complete coincidence, just a promotion that happened to be running both now, and then, and it's not simply that your VP is dodgy....

Uh huh.

Yep.

 

[SlotsWizard]

Have you noticed they haven't been back to answer my legitimate questions?

Bryan, if you see this thread - do you think you could add them to the Rogue section for having Funkified Software?

 

[totalesoft]

Hi again,

I did ask for 48-72 hours to come back to you over this. I promise that I am not trying to duck out of answering your questions. As soon as I hear back from the tech people, I will definitely come back here with details.

I will ensure that I will be back tomorrow to sort out this issue with you.

Regarding your other questions, we have been using ownacasino.co.uk for some years to promote casino software, both ours and other casinos. You will see from the site that all ownacasino.co.uk is providing is a "mini-site" for players to promote casino software. Please note that there is no charge for any of the mini-sites relating to MG or any software other than The Casino Lobby. We have the full consent of Roxy Palace to do this - it is basically providing an option for people new to the casino affiliate business, to put up a website of their own to promote a casino. As I said, there is never any charge for this, and we have been running the program very successfully for 6 years. Again, I doubt you will find many complaints about this program on the Net... which is not bad for 6 years and almost 9000 members.

To answer happygobrokey's question, of course people will not be happy if there is a problem with the software. If we find there is a problem, then we will take steps to rectify it. This includes refunding affected players and compensating them for it. I *will* ensure that any players affected are notified by email and made aware of the situation, and will make reimbursements. I think that is a good start. Any company can make mistakes, even MG and PT - it is most important to us should there be an error, that we fix it and make reparations to our customers.

 

[SlotsWizard]

Hi again,

I did ask for 48-72 hours to come back to you over this. I promise that I am not trying to duck out of answering your questions. As soon as I hear back from the tech people, I will definitely come back here with details.

I will ensure that I will be back tomorrow to sort out this issue with you.

Regarding your other questions, we have been using ownacasino.co.uk for some years to promote casino software, both ours and other casinos. You will see from the site that all ownacasino.co.uk is providing is a "mini-site" for players to promote casino software. Please note that there is no charge for any of the mini-sites relating to MG or any software other than The Casino Lobby. We have the full consent of Roxy Palace to do this - it is basically providing an option for people new to the casino affiliate business, to put up a website of their own to promote a casino. As I said, there is never any charge for this, and we have been running the program very successfully for 6 years. Again, I doubt you will find many complaints about this program on the Net... which is not bad for 6 years and almost 9000 members.

To answer happygobrokey's question, of course people will not be happy if there is a problem with the software. If we find there is a problem, then we will take steps to rectify it. This includes refunding affected players and compensating them for it. I *will* ensure that any players affected are notified by email and made aware of the situation, and will make reimbursements. I think that is a good start. Any company can make mistakes, even MG and PT - it is most important to us should there be an error, that we fix it and make reparations to our customers.

I look forward to your response from the tech department.

In the meantime, what about my question about testing the software? The 2 hands I posted screenshots of in a previous page were the first 2 hands I played upon entering the game. Surely impossible results like that would have been noticed by someone if the software was tested, no?

 

[totalesoft]

Hi again,

I have received a response about the multi hand poker.

During programming it was noticed that an error was occasionally crashing the game, so the programmers set it to produce this result in order to discover the root of the problem. Unfortunately, as programming continued with other parts of the game the error was overlooked, and this was not changed back. During the testing of the game, it appears from our records that the result did happen just a couple of times, but was not picked up on.

Please note this only happened with a few hands, just when the error occured - so that it could be seen without the system crashing. All other hands - as was noticed earlier in this thread - are completely random. These multi-hand games are very new, I am grateful that I was pointed in the direction of this thread early so that we could tackle it now rather than later.

We have now sorted out this issue and I am assured that at no point in the future will you see results like this again.

Of course, we now have to make reparations to the players who experienced this issue in their gaming. I will inform them that they will be refunded their money on any game where this occured, AND they will also receive compensation of twice that amount. There will be no conditions to this money; no wagering requirements. If they wish to take it out at once, they can.

I hope this goes some way to showing our regret at what has happened. As I said before, nothing like this has ever occured, and we will be extra vigilant that it does not again. I hope you will agree that I have done my very best to address and solve this issue. Bryan has my email address and if you would like to contact me directly about anything to do with our software, please do so.

We are still restricting access to the software, while we make thorough tests to ensure that everything is working correctly. You will be welcome to check over the games again as soon as this is done. I will be back to notify you.

Jonathan

 

[totalesoft]

Hi,

This post is directed to thelawnet. Please get in touch with me through our support email address at thecasinolobby.com. I understand from your postings that you were not satisfied with your experience at TheCasinoLobby.com.

I would like to maintain that our video poker games are completely random and always have been, but as you are not happy with our paytables at the time you played 2 years ago, I would like to begin a dialog to ensure your satisfaction. As it is your private and confidential account we are discussing, then it would be better away from a public forum.

Jonathan

 

[me_and_ed]

Hi again,

I have received a response about the multi hand poker.

During programming it was noticed that an error was occasionally crashing the game, so the programmers set it to produce this result in order to discover the root of the problem. Unfortunately, as programming continued with other parts of the game the error was overlooked, and this was not changed back. During the testing of the game, it appears from our records that the result did happen just a couple of times, but was not picked up on.

Please note this only happened with a few hands, just when the error occured - so that it could be seen without the system crashing. Jonathan

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, thank god it was only a few hands, that must mean it just happened to you Slotswizard, thanks to your few hands nobody else got screwed.

 

[totalesoft]

No, it didn't just happen to Slots Wizard, but we are doing everything we can to make sure that i) it doesn't happen again and ii) that we recompense the players that it did happen to.

As you will know from looking around the many threads on this site, programming errors and bugs do get through - even from MG, Playtech and RTG - so we are not alone in experiencing this kind of issue.

We're just making sure that if an error does occur, that it is solved to everyone's satisfaction.

Jonathan

 

[vinylweatherman]

Well, at least we get a "confession" to there being a bug within the week. No denial & investigation as with English Harbour.

It would be interesting how it was possible to "rig" the hand in the first place, even if as an error trap. The fact that this possibility exists does little to assure playes that tampering cannot happen in the future.

As for the "ownacasino" site, I would like to know if the "kit" supplied as the free "Roxy Palace" package is being misused to produce all that "Mint Las Vegas" spam?

The "Mint Las Vegas" landing site from the spam seems pretty much what totalesoft has described as being provided by this "mini site" to help new affiliates get a start in the business. It downloads Roxy Palace, instead of "Mint Las Vegas" (coincidence ), but has also downloaded some of the Grand Prive sites (when I tried it, the Grand Prive download seemed the more common, but I have had Roxy download from a dummy site in the past).

 

[Zoozie]

Hi again,

During programming it was noticed that an error was occasionally crashing the game, so the programmers set it to produce this result in order to discover the root of the problem. Unfortunately, as programming continued with other parts of the game the error was overlooked, and this was not changed back. During the testing of the game, it appears from our records that the result did happen just a couple of times, but was not picked up on.

Please note this only happened with a few hands, just when the error occured - so that it could be seen without the system crashing. All other hands - as was noticed earlier in this thread - are completely random.

Jonathan

This is not plausible at all. It does not matter if there was system-crash fix. Somehow the RNG produced these hands. The results came from somewhere, if it for some reason was the same draw cards on every hand then it could be
a bug/error.

For non-tech people this error/overlook might seem plausible, but my BS detector exploded when reading this. There are
1)unit-tests
2)file logs
3) manual tests
4) QA
5) TODO code-comments for this fix

Any of these would have caught the error. Unless whole development team are hired directly out of 'special aid class' this is not possible. And as I claimed I do not believe it to be true, it was a stupid cover-up excuse.

Zoozie

 

[SlotsWizard]

This is not plausible at all. It does not matter if there was system-crash fix. Somehow the RNG produced these hands. The results came from somewhere, if it for some reason was the same draw cards on every hand then it could be
a bug/error.

For non-tech people this error/overlook might seem plausible, but my BS detector exploded when reading this. There are
1)unit-tests
2)file logs
3) manual tests
4) QA
5) TODO code-comments for this fix

Any of these would have caught the error. Unless whole development team are hired directly out of 'special aid class' this is not possible. And as I claimed I do not believe it to be true, it was a stupid cover-up excuse.

Zoozie

I have to agree with Zoozie. To me I think the 48-72 hours was needed to come up with an excuse that sounds plausible to the naivety of the majority.

I too am involved with software development (not for casinos but that's irrelevant) and there are too many testing phases for something this major to not have been caught.

If the software was crashing, rather than fix it they decided to return fake results and never address the cause of the software crashes?

My BSometer is in the red zone as well.

 

[thelawnet]

Hi,

This post is directed to thelawnet. Please get in touch with me through our support email address at thecasinolobby.com. I understand from your postings that you were not satisfied with your experience at TheCasinoLobby.com.

I would like to maintain that our video poker games are completely random and always have been, but as you are not happy with our paytables at the time you played 2 years ago, I would like to begin a dialog to ensure your satisfaction. As it is your private and confidential account we are discussing, then it would be better away from a public forum.

The paytables weren't the problem as much as the video poker felt dodgy and the craps ate chips, and it took five months to get paid, and my support email when trying to deposit was answered, while those trying to cash out were not......

Anyway, there's no need for any private discussion, I'm not playing at your casino again, as I've never experienced any casino that felt more dodgy.

Just sharing my experiences and opinions with everyone else here.

 

[me_and_ed]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, thank god it was only a few hands, that must mean it just happened to you Slotswizard, thanks to your few hands nobody else got screwed.

This sarcastic response wasnt saying it only happened to one person, it is saying you must think that we are all idiots, this is the most laughable bullshit excuse I have seen in a long time, my 10 yr old has more believable stories, you have been exposed and your now trying to do some damage control.

 

[totalesoft]

Hi again,

I am sorry that you feel that way. I can only let you know the reasons for the problem, and what we are going to do to square everything up.

As I mentioned before, I could have just left this thread alone and not bothered to contribute - if I really wanted to hide something, I could simply have waited for a week or so before typing anything in (instead of giving a promise to get to the root of the problem), or said nothing at all. I have tried to immediately give you some details about why the error occured, what we are going to do to ensure it doesn't happen again and how we are going to make amends to any players affected. It appears that I am going to make very little headway in trying to be up front about these issues.

Just to quickly answer Zoozie's point - it was because our RNG is random that the programmer concerned couldn't make the 50 hands that came up the same every time. Once the 5 initial cards show, they would be bound to make a match with something and then it would not show the error. It was just easier to do it that way, while the earlier stages of programming was going on. It was a genuine error and I apologise for that. Yes, we have testing and checking, but this particular issue was missed. I'm not making an excuse - it was genuinely missed and should never have got past the testing. As you will be aware, mistakes get through with most software companies - although with casino software it can reflect badly on the integrity of the company. Other casino software companies have experienced problems far worse and far less than this but have got over them, and I hope we will be allowed to do so too.

All I can do now is to apologise to the affected people, make reparations and make sure it doesn't happen again. I believe I have acted in the most responsible way I can.

I would just suggest at this point that anyone who wants to check if our games are random should just play them and see. I realise that you may not want to do this now, and I fully understand that. Apart from this one particular issue, we have had 4 successful years of operation, with very few complaints.

Jonathan