Betfred CS - Am I being unreasonable???

[mathsboy1975]

I recently reopened my Betfred account and have been playing there with a very small daily deposit limit for the last 2 weeks or so. I do enjoy the Thor game (I know Playtech are not everyones favourite provider but I enjoy this game). After many days of shite luck and my deposits lasting all of 60 seconds I decided to enquire about my RTP since I reopened my account. What follows is the (edited) transcript of my conversation with CS

[me] Hello. I recently re-opened my casino account here. I was wondering if you could provide me with my RTP since I re-opened the account pleasE?
[Clayton] May I please have your user name, date of birth, full name and answer to your security question? Thanks!
[me] omitted
[me] omitted
[me] omitted
[me] And I believe the security answer is "omitted"
[me] assuming that the question is "where was i born"
[me] if not could you remind me of the question?
[Clayton] its correct, just a moment
[me] OK
[me] Hello?
[Clayton] I have checked and there is nothing I am able to offer you at this moment
[me] What does this mean>
[me] ?
[me] You have no RTP for my recent play?
[Clayton] no there is nothing I am able to offer you at this moment
[me] But how can this be?
[me] Surely my play is logged?
[Clayton] yes your play is logged but there is nothing I am able to offer you at this moment
[me] Sorry I am confused - if my play is logged then my RTP is available?
[me] Hello ?
The operator has ended the chat.
Thanks for contacting Betfred Live Help.

I am seeking the opinion of members here - I consider the above exchange to be quite frankly a piss poor example of CS. Is this assessment unreasonable? Am I asking for something that is considered to be above the expectation of CS? Is the (non-existent) explanation as to why my query cannot be answered acceptable? To me this smacks of sheer incompetence/lack of decent CS. If I am being out of order please enlighten me but I do not see my request as being unreasonable?

Is this termination of CS exchange without a reasonable explanation acceptable when compared with other casinos?

 

[mathsboy1975]

And 10 mins later

[Rajeev] Hello, welcome to Betfred online Live Support. My name is Rajeev, how may I help you?
[me] Could you provide me with recent RTP pleasE?
[Rajeev] May I please have your user name, date of birth, full name and answer to your security question? Thanks! ]
[me] omitted
[me] omitted
[me] omitted
[me] omitted
[Rajeev] One moment please, whilst I review your account details...
[Rajeev] can you tell me what RTP is please
[me] never mind

Again - am I expecting too much here??

 

[PaaskeDenmark]

Yes you can't expect live chat support to know what RTP is. Instead send them an email instead to support and they will look into. Not in a rush are we?

It was bad support in that first example. But in 2nd you don't even give him a minute to look into it. At least he is honest asking you what RTP is.

 

[syntynyt]

betfred support is one of the best in this industry. i always had problems with some slots in their downloadable casino, i explained the situation which a;ways was forwarded to tech departament, and few hours later no more problems. last time i played it was a bug when Clubber was chosen in Rocky bonus, the slot freezing the round giving me no chance to continue or to close the casino until round should have finished, doing with end process, working after re-login. the problem lasted for 3 days, because i like to chose only the Clubber. last time i reported they credited my account with $11 general poker ticket, as i play poker too. not to mention bonanza tickets when i almost receive one when i ask support, the generous christmas package that included casino credits and poker tickets and im not even a frequent depositor. you should be more specific when asking for anything. RTP, no idea what this was until i did an account here reading about.

 

[PaaskeDenmark]

Try them again on livechat and give them this

Return to Player (RTP)
Return to Player (RTP) is the term casinos use to describe the percentage of all the wagered money a VLT or slot machine will pay back to the player over time. For example, if you make a hundred $1 bets on a machine on which the RTP is 90%, you might expect to get back about $90 in wins. Of course, both house advantage and RTP are generally calculated over the long term. Almost anything can happen in the short term, so you should only ever bet with money you’re prepared to lose.
You may have already noticed that RTP is really just the flip side of house advantage. If a machine has a 20% house advantage, then the average RTP will be 80%, meaning that over time the machine will keep about 20% of all money bet and will return the other 80% to players in wins

 

[bigjohn]

IMO, the first guy, Clayton, didn't really want to be there and sounds like he expects that everybody who contacts support only wants a free chip or bonus and is not really listening to the question. He's just saying, "I can't offer you anything"

While it may not be reasonable for the live chat support to know your RTP for any given session, IMO, they have to at least be trained enough to know what it means. It's like a bank employee who never heard of APR. The second guy needs a little more instruction.

 

[Nifty29]

How can they give you an RTP for your "recent" play?

It's like asking "how long is a piece of string?"

Personally, I think it's unreasonable to ask a live chat drone about specific gameplay stuff like RTP. Send an email and wait a while, as, depending on the specific period you ask for, it might involve manual calculations.

In truth, your RTP at any given point is irrelevant and means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things. All it tells you is that you're winning or losing...and you know that already. It has no impact on future play, and is not a measure of whether game/s are rigged....which is the ONLY situation I would bother asking for the RTP figure, and ONLY over a long period.

 

[mathsboy1975]

How can they give you an RTP for your "recent" play?

It's like asking "how long is a piece of string?"

Personally, I think it's unreasonable to ask a live chat drone about specific gameplay stuff like RTP. Send an email and wait a while, as, depending on the specific period you ask for, it might involve manual calculations.

In truth, your RTP at any given point is irrelevant and means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things. All it tells you is that you're winning or losing...and you know that already. It has no impact on future play, and is not a measure of whether game/s are rigged....which is the ONLY situation I would bother asking for the RTP figure, and ONLY over a long period.

OK thanks guys - that is basically what I was looking for. I had simply assumed that CS would at least recognise what my request was but next time I will do things via mail and clearly explain what it is I am looking for. I only wanted this info because I wanted to see how much value for money I had been getting since reopening my account. It felt like it was very little value but I was after a concrete number to assess the situation. Anyways thanks for the feedback.

 

[Jory]

I recall a time when I asked a live chat agent if they could flush my withdrawal and they had never heard of the term "flush".

In truth, your RTP at any given point is irrelevant and means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things. All it tells you is that you're winning or losing...and you know that already. It has no impact on future play, and is not a measure of whether game/s are rigged....which is the ONLY situation I would bother asking for the RTP figure, and ONLY over a long period.

It may be irrelevant but it's nice to have access to as many statistics as possible. It's useful in determining just how lucky/unlucky you’ve been. Since luck is very difficult to measure the RTP is the best guide there is.

I wish it was available somewhere in the account settings rather than having to contact the casino who will assume you're looking for a freebie.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I recall a time when I asked a live chat agent if they could flush my withdrawal and they had never heard of the term "flush".



It may be irrelevant but it's nice to have access to as many statistics as possible. It's useful in determining just how lucky/unlucky you’ve been. Since luck is very difficult to measure the RTP is the best guide there is.

I wish it was available somewhere in the account settings rather than having to contact the casino who will assume you're looking for a freebie.

It would be enough to have a facility for players to download an Excel file of their gaming history, and they can then be as anal as they like with the stats without clogging up the CS team. It seems more and more players are asking for these kinds of stats.

I recall a while back that operators said that they didn't list the RTP of the games as it would "confuse players" who would misinterpret the information due to not understanding it. It seems that the OPERATORS are more confused about RTP than the smarter players.

If players stick to one type of game, they can estimate their session RTP by using the comp points earned and the amount lost. If a slots player is getting between 90% and 100% over a decent period, they are not getting ripped off. Shorter periods can produce wildly inaccurate estimates due to the variance of the games.

 

[Slotster!]

Genuine, non sarcastic question (for a change )

Why does anyone even remotely care about historic RTP?

 

[lotusch]

betfred support is one of the best in this industry

As clearly shown in the chat transcript in OP.

/sarcasm off.

 

[Finn]

I wish it was available somewhere in the account settings rather than having to contact the casino who will assume you're looking for a freebie.

I don't think any casino shows either short term or long term RTP in account settings, and for a good reason. There are just too many idiots who don't understand randomness, so displaying RTP would just result in huge increase in the amount of whining to customer support about the casino cheating and badmouthing of the casino on the internet. It happens way too often on these forums that someone who doesn't understand randomness comes here to cry and badmouth a well established and honest casino based on their short losing streak and poor session RTP.

 

[bigjohn]

Genuine, non sarcastic question (for a change )

Why does anyone even remotely care about historic RTP?

I think it can provide a 'reality check' for the player to see if his/her perception matches what really happened. It is also just a number which the casino can easily calculate so if a depositing player wants it why not give it to them.

 

[Slotster!]

I think it can provide a 'reality check' for the player to see if his/her perception matches what really happened. .

Is that not called "your bank account"?..

Totally agree though that, they should really just provide you with whatever you ask for.

 

[aceking123]

i like to know my rtp% only after a battering for a few weeks or months , it may not make any difference to short games but if your set on a machine over a period of time with lack of features or runs , it can make you feel abused a little , damn machines , nothing wrong with asking , im now doing what most people are doing & keeping track , this way i dont have to ask. but it clearly doesnt mean to say ive spent 4k in that its due to pay

i get upto a certain ammount of spending then cut it back on machines once burnt twice as shy , doesnt mean i shant play it again just means im much tighter when playing it , theres a few who cant understand rtp% on customer service , but if you e mail like nifty pointed out then you can get them, although sometimes it can take upto a couple of weeks )

end of the day your luck is either there or not ,although sometimes it doesnt feel that way good luck mathsboy )

 

[Nifty29]

I think it can provide a 'reality check' for the player to see if his/her perception matches what really happened. It is also just a number which the casino can easily calculate so if a depositing player wants it why not give it to them.

I agree that they should provide it upon request.

It's just unreasonable to expect it to be provided instantly, given that manual calculations may be needed, and that live chat drones may not have the required level of account access.