Betfred complaint

[GOCC]

Edit

 

[GOCC]

Sorry Casinomeister, Could you delete this so I can post it in the Betfred Thread. No Idea why its appered like this?

 

[rainmaker]

Sorry Casinomeister, Could you delete this so I can post it in the Betfred Thread. No Idea why its appered like this?

Maybe it was removed from the Betfred thread, since it is not relevant for that thread

 

[The Dude]

Maybe it was removed from the Betfred thread, since it is not relevant for that thread

What he said. It was derailing the other thread.

 

[SlotMonster]

So where are the screenshots and post now?

The OP deleted it thinking it's still in the wrong thread?

 

[GOCC]

Hmmm, fair point but it was top show that Betfred are not averse to changing reports at their own leisure.

 

[Slotster!]

I would be utterly stunned if BetFred physically changed a bet with a return of around £350. I'm not saying it didn't happen, I'm just saying I can't possibly imagine they would do it on purpose. That said, this is why it is critical from a player confidence perspective that clarity is reached on that other issue.

Did you raise this with them? What was their response?

I don't know about BetFred's backend but I've seen first hand the inner workings of a different online bookie and there's an audit trail to end all audit trails on EVERY single transaction.

Bizarre.

 

[The Dude]

Hmmm, fair point but it was top show that Betfred are not averse to changing reports at their own leisure.

And then the moderators and I have to play "whack the mole" on keeping this forum organized. Please post your screenshots in this thread. It is a totally different issue than the other.

 

[GOCC]

And then the moderators and I have to play "whack the mole" on keeping this forum organized. Please post your screenshots in this thread. It is a totally different issue than the other.

Fair point again its not a comapint as I got paid (It was 4 years ago)



The above is a bet I placed with Betfred. £160 on Wensley Blue @ 9/4



This is the same bet confirmed in my open bets



By chance, I was looking at my bets and saw that they had changed the meeting in the bet, from Kelso to Lingfield.



Then not happy with that, they changed the name of the horse to Lordswood.

Wensley Blue WON Lordswood, didnt.

Wouldnt trust um with 20p piece personally

 

[vinylweatherman]

What explanation did they offer for this?

 

[The Dude]

What explanation did they offer for this?

OMG! A single sentence of only seven words?

Who are you, and what have you done with VWM??

 

[incrediblestuff]

OMG! A single sentence of only seven words?

Who are you, and what have you done with VWM??

That was quite funny

 

[GOCC]

Like I said, 4 years ago but they just paid me and closed the account.

 

[Slotster!]

Like I said, 4 years ago but they just paid me and closed the account.

An apology!? An explanation?

My best guess - someone contacted support to change a bet they incorrectly placed/wanted amending, support screwed up - they checked and coughed up.

Like I say, the backend systems at an online bookie that I've seen are scarily in depth - something like this could not possible happen without being able to track it back.

 

[GOCC]

An apology!? An explanation?

My best guess - someone contacted support to change a bet they incorrectly placed/wanted amending, support screwed up - they checked and coughed up.

Like I say, the backend systems at an online bookie that I've seen are scarily in depth - something like this could not possible happen without being able to track it back.

?
It was my bet. There was nothing wrong with it and I didnt ask for anything to be changed. It was all done after the result.

 

[vinylweatherman]

?
It was my bet. There was nothing wrong with it and I didnt ask for anything to be changed. It was all done after the result.

So, THEY screwed up, and punished YOU for complaining by kicking you out, even though they paid up.

This at least deserves an explanation, even though they did pay up. This is a security and integrity issue with their website and software, and if they just paid & booted you, it suggests they didn't believe they had a problem, and so whatever happened then could remain a vulnerabilty in their systems waiting to catch out another punter.

It also seems odd that first the meeting, then the horse, changed. I would have expected an amendment to have been done all at once.

Companies that boot out customers for seeking redress over a legitimate issue just make themselves look dodgy, yet they still do it. If the changes all happened after the result, even more suspicious as it cannot then be explained away as a normal amendment by the punter, as such a change after a result would not be permitted.

If they had a detailed audit trail, they would have known exactly how this happened, and by paying out they are admitting it shouldn't have. Kicking you out was not a good move, instead they should have apologised and assured you that steps had been taken to ensure this does not happen again.

If punters can't trust their systems to keep a true account of their wagers, then punters can't trust the operator either.

 

[Slotster!]

Sorry, I didn't make myself very clear (for a change)

What I meant was, I'm guessing the change was requested by someone else and mistakenly applied to your account or something similar. I.e It took a definite action and was a mistake. There's no way on this earth Betfred would try and back out of such a small payout.

Twice I've backed a horse in a real world bookies, both times they came in and the rep had put them on an entirely different horse for me. Fortunately they just took a look at the scanned ticket in the real world and immediately apologised before handing over the cash...

What I'm saying is, it's an unusual one, but I'm pretty certain it is probably human error as opposed to a glitch in the software or anything nefarious.

That TV programme recently about Paddy Power showed the 'quality' of some support staff and their disdain for some customers.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Sorry, I didn't make myself very clear (for a change)

What I meant was, I'm guessing the change was requested by someone else and mistakenly applied to your account or something similar. I.e It took a definite action and was a mistake. There's no way on this earth Betfred would try and back out of such a small payout.

Twice I've backed a horse in a real world bookies, both times they came in and the rep had put them on an entirely different horse for me. Fortunately they just took a look at the scanned ticket in the real world and immediately apologised before handing over the cash...

What I'm saying is, it's an unusual one, but I'm pretty certain it is probably human error as opposed to a glitch in the software or anything nefarious.

That TV programme recently about Paddy Power showed the 'quality' of some support staff and their disdain for some customers.

An unfortunate mistake, but no apology and they kick the customer out for daring to complain. This implies they feel the customer pulled a fast one, but can't prove it so paid and shut them out. This falls well short of an apology for an internal cockup by their support staff, and if anything seems to be an attempt to cover up the mistake by shifting the blame to the customer.

This still leaves the risk that nothing has been done to reduce the chances of the same mistake happening again, as the starting point would be to take responsibilty for their own employees screwup, and make changes to ensure it can't happen again under the same circumstances.

CS should not be accidentally making alterations to the wrong account, it shows their procedures are lacking the appropriate checks and balances.

 

[Betfred]

Hi there,

I have to admit to being very surprised to hear and see this. My understanding is that it's impossible to change meetings, times or selections once struck. I would like to investigate this further, can you ping me your username, post code and full name and I'll get the guys digging up the logs. Despite this being from 2008, it should all be on record.

I certainly can't understand why your account would then be shut...

Kind regards,

Aaron

 

[naththo]

Well, I bet Betfred operator has different side of story than the complaint here. There is always two side of story. So if anyone have problem must post private message to one of bedfred rather than posting here. By closing his account is probably more than the problem he had due to a serious breach the term and condition. Who knows really. I don't think PAB is necessary because his account was paid then closed. If he was banned from Betfred then there is no go. Its over and time to move on to somewhere else. Like previous post someone made complaint about triple 7. Well he got kicked out cos of cheating with bot. Betfred was right. So it seems to me Betfred is telling the truth whole time before hand. 4 yeas ago is way off topic to me bit too far late for it to get it sorted out. I think this make sense when I said that.

 

[raj]

Betfred do seem to be getting a hard time on here lately, I have used them in the past and had no problems at all, at this rate Barney Curley will be launching a PAB soon

or Maybe not , I have just read that Barney eventually was paid out on his disputed bets.

I think Aaron has shown a lot of patience and willingness to try to investigate and reslove any issues, and that is the sign of a good company.

Raj

 

[naththo]

I thought so Raj. But its good to see it got all follow up real soon though!

 

[vinylweatherman]

Well, I bet Betfred operator has different side of story than the complaint here. There is always two side of story. So if anyone have problem must post private message to one of bedfred rather than posting here. By closing his account is probably more than the problem he had due to a serious breach the term and condition. Who knows really. I don't think PAB is necessary because his account was paid then closed. If he was banned from Betfred then there is no go. Its over and time to move on to somewhere else. Like previous post someone made complaint about triple 7. Well he got kicked out cos of cheating with bot. Betfred was right. So it seems to me Betfred is telling the truth whole time before hand. 4 yeas ago is way off topic to me bit too far late for it to get it sorted out. I think this make sense when I said that.

I expect so, but he also says that what is shown is "impossible", yet the screenshots indicate otherwise. When the impossible happens, it is a pretty big issue, and should have been thoroughly investigated when it happened, not 4 years later.

They did pay, but were clearly of the opinion the player had done something sneaky, and didn't want him around any longer. The worry is that this was dismissed as a "hack", and not investigated further having dealt with the "hacker" by showing him the door. It is also odd that this happened in 2 stages, with the first stage showing an impossible bet, the right horse, but wrong meeting. This could have happened before the result though, as the screenshots show the bet as "open" throughout.

Is it true that once struck, it is impossible to change a bet by any means before the result. I always thought that bets could be cancelled by either side up until the horses entering the ring. The changed bet shows the same timestamp, which indicates a change, rather than a cancellation and new bet being struck.

 

[Slotster!]

What this also demonstrates is the incredible value in having access to people like Pat H and Ed W @ 32Red. They're not 'support reps' or 'affiliate support' - they can make decisions and provide answers fast.

It's pretty unique.

I don't expect Fred Done to sign up and start posting; just that I understand it's difficult for a support rep sometimes to offer any sort of 'inside track' or anything off the 'company line'.

 

[GOCC]

WHHOOOOOOAAAA HANG ON ONE SEC.

1. I didnt start this thread, it was moved here by CM as I posted the screenies showing how Betfred can change things at will.

2. I havent even made a complaint so saying PAB is a load of rubbish.

3. With respect to the rep, It must be just as easy for you to find who had £160 on a horse at Kelso on the dates in question as it would be for me to even try and remember the username.

IT ISNT A COMPLAINT, it was mainly me posting MY EXPERIENCE with Betfred. Though I know why CM moved it here if it was still in the Betfred thread, it would have been lost (Though now locked).

I have no complain to make except they closed my account. Simple. If I complained everytime a bookmaker closed my account I would need a separate sub section of the forum.

 

[GOCC]

The reason why I hate Betfred with a passion is because I used to work for them when managers used to have to settle bets not empty FOBTS.

I left because one of my cashiers was given a written warning because she told a customer that he had a sleeper to collect that he knew nothing of.

To those who dont know, a sleeper is a betting ticket that has been settled a winner but not collected by the customer. The cashier in question KNEW the customer, KNEW it was his bet and told him. He filled a lost slip form out, which I signed, and it was only when the Area Manager did a site visit that the customer said, "She deserves a Gold Medal. Never knew Id got £100 to draw until she told me"

If you think thats a great firm then everyones entitled to their own opinions.

 

[vinylweatherman]

The reason why I hate Betfred with a passion is because I used to work for them when managers used to have to settle bets not empty FOBTS.

I left because one of my cashiers was given a written warning because she told a customer that he had a sleeper to collect that he knew nothing of.

To those who dont know, a sleeper is a betting ticket that has been settled a winner but not collected by the customer. The cashier in question KNEW the customer, KNEW it was his bet and told him. He filled a lost slip form out, which I signed, and it was only when the Area Manager did a site visit that the customer said, "She deserves a Gold Medal. Never knew Id got £100 to draw until she told me"

If you think thats a great firm then everyones entitled to their own opinions.

That could be fraud, and the cashier would have won an unfair dismissal claim, therefore it was probably an attempt to put the frighteners on the cashier, and others in the branch. The area manager is the one who should be fired. If the customer had later found out they had a "sleeper", they would have asked "why didn't you tell me", and this policy could have come to light. Firms get away with quite a bit because what the customer doesn't know, the customer doesn't complain about.

Lottery agents have been arrested and prosecuted for telling customers they hadn't won, and then claiming the win themselves. They have even been known to take out all the winning scratchcards for themselves, and sell only losers to customers (they can check the validation codes to see which tickets will have won without removing the coating, customers probably don't notice a small bit of "unimportant" coating has been removed from an obviously "new" card).

Unfortunately, there is now "whistleblower protection" for employees, so this cashier could have told someone like Trading Standards, and if they were then fired, they would be in line for a substantial payout.

Don't think for one minute this is exclusive to Betfred either, it happens whenever someone in charge can benefit, has the power to keep subordinates quiet (threat of the sack), and can cover their tracks if the big bosses do an audit.

Customers too can be kept quiet by being threatened with a ban for complaining. The banks were busted for this, and were told that they must not close accounts of customers who complained, and if they did, would face penalties from the regulator.

 

[questa]

That could be fraud, and the cashier would have won an unfair dismissal claim, therefore it was probably an attempt to put the frighteners on the cashier, and others in the branch. The area manager is the one who should be fired. If the customer had later found out they had a "sleeper", they would have asked "why didn't you tell me", and this policy could have come to light. Firms get away with quite a bit because what the customer doesn't know, the customer doesn't complain about.

Lottery agents have been arrested and prosecuted for telling customers they hadn't won, and then claiming the win themselves. They have even been known to take out all the winning scratchcards for themselves, and sell only losers to customers (they can check the validation codes to see which tickets will have won without removing the coating, customers probably don't notice a small bit of "unimportant" coating has been removed from an obviously "new" card).

Unfortunately, there is now "whistleblower protection" for employees, so this cashier could have told someone like Trading Standards, and if they were then fired, they would be in line for a substantial payout.

Don't think for one minute this is exclusive to Betfred either, it happens whenever someone in charge can benefit, has the power to keep subordinates quiet (threat of the sack), and can cover their tracks if the big bosses do an audit.

Customers too can be kept quiet by being threatened with a ban for complaining. The banks were busted for this, and were told that they must not close accounts of customers who complained, and if they did, would face penalties from the regulator.

I think Betfred always give off the impression that they spend a lot of time working out how to avoid paying. There are so many examples and they remind me of an insurance company. GOCC's story above is really despicable, what a nasty company.

 

[GOCC]

When I started working their in 1999, I seem to recall it was in the staff handbook.

Horrid firm IMO

 

[threescatters]

The reason why I hate Betfred with a passion is because I used to work for them when managers used to have to settle bets not empty FOBTS.

I left because one of my cashiers was given a written warning because she told a customer that he had a sleeper to collect that he knew nothing of.

To those who dont know, a sleeper is a betting ticket that has been settled a winner but not collected by the customer. The cashier in question KNEW the customer, KNEW it was his bet and told him. He filled a lost slip form out, which I signed, and it was only when the Area Manager did a site visit that the customer said, "She deserves a Gold Medal. Never knew Id got £100 to draw until she told me"

If you think thats a great firm then everyones entitled to their own opinions.

That a disgusting story and tbh it doesnt surprise me. Thanks for sharing.

 

[daywalker]

There's plenty of stories of 'baldy' wriggling out of paying all over the place so none of these stories surprise me in the least.

 

[Betfred]

Again, I invite the player to contact me with his details because, although I respect his wish that this isn't a complaint, I do want to check out want wrong.

Thanks,

Aaron