Betclic mess (Betclic Everest Group)

rainmaker

I'm not a penguin
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Casinomeister`s hard working PAB manager (maxd) updated his Betclic warning yesterday (here).

It is not possible to reply to threads in the “Casinomeister Warning” section, so I am starting a new one based on his warning.

Betclic is offering games from different providers, but I think most players will see them as a “NetEnt casino” since their main casino is powered by Net Entertainment.

Betclic is part of the Betclic Everest Group (BEG). BEG is privately owned, which of course means that they are not required to publish financial information in the same way as publicly traded companies. But two of their owners are publicly traded (Paris Stock Exchange), so it is possible to look at their numbers in order to find out how BEG is doing.

One of their shareholders, Société des Bains de Me, reported this in their annual report for the financial year ended March 2011:

Lastly, the equity-accounting consolidation of Betclic Everest Group, an on-line gaming group that is 50% owned by Société des Bains de Mer, required the recognition of a 50% share of its net profit for the period from April 1, 2010 to March 31, 2011, for a negative share of €25 million. This loss corresponded to the consideration of acquisition costs and the impairment of intangible assets, in addition to a net operating income heavily impacted by the opening of the French on-line gaming market and high taxation.

The Group posted a consolidated net loss of €17.3 million for 2010/2011, compared to a profit of €1.1 million the previous year.

So it has been known for a longer time that this group is not doing very well. And I assume that the bad trend we saw early in 2011 continued throughout 2011. Their CEO (and others) resigned in 2011. Several of their sponsorship deals have also been ended recently, latest their deal with Juventus (as reported last month).

These are the brands in the group:

Betclic
Bet-At-Home.com (publicly traded)
Everest Gaming
Expekt

Net Entertainment also proudly announced in their Q3 presentation last year that “Monte Carlo is going online and they have selected Net Entertainment as a provider”.

Monte Carlo online (montecarlocasino.com) is a part of the Betclic Everest Group. I asked their casino manager earlier this year, and he told me that they had not started promoting yet. I found this quite strange, since the site had been up and running since some time last year. You do not launch a new online casino with the world famous Monte Carlo brand and put it on “hold” for several months unless you have some major problems. Not sure what the status is today, but I looked at their progressive jackpots (which is some of NetEnt most popular games) and it certainly does not seems like they have more than a couple of customers.

The warning from Casinomeister concerned Betclic. But I would like to add that I think players (and affiliates) should be careful or in my opinion avoid other brands in this group as well, especially montecarlocasino.com, Expekt and Everest Gaming.
 
Wow, I'm very surprised. This was one of the better casinos with super quick payments and very good bonuses etc. Not had much bonuses lately from them and not played much for a few months with them though.

Good to know I should not use them anymore until this is cleared then.
 
Hmm confusing.. Everest Gaming is a brand/casino?
Cause I thought they were the group behind everest casino / poker, casino elegance etc etc. All those grand virtual casinos, which are listed in the accredited section.
 
Rainmaker is correct - the Betclic Everest Group evolved from the old Mangas Gaming, rebranding in 2010 with Nick Beraud taking over as CEO early in that year.

He left late last year for undisclosed reasons, handing over to former online travel senior executive Ignicio Martos, but was invited to join the b.o.d.

At the time of his departure Beraud made amicable noises, saying in a statement:

“I will remember what a pleasure it has been in the last six years to experience an adventure that was so out of the ordinary, in the company of enthusiastic and innovative staff, and in a sector where everything was yet to be created…I am grateful to the Board of Directors for its trust in me.”.

They have a French poker site, too.

Gigamedia used to be the other big shareholder in the group, but I'm not sure if that Asian group is still involved.

I hope NetEnt is clued up on this outfit, especially its lack of performance of late.

Edited to add a little more info:

Beraud was formerly Betclic's CEO and COO of the Mangas Group; with the changes his superior Isabelle Parise moved up the corporate ladder and he took her place as group CEO of BEG.

A few months after Beraud departed, his colleague and Betclic co-founder, Eric Moncada also left BEG, followed closely by group Chief Technical Officer Pierrick Petain and other senior managers.

At the time there was speculation that the serious cost-cutting measures imposed by new CEO Martos may be to blame.
 
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Thanks for the info jetset :thumbsup:


As far as I know, GigaMedia is involved as a shareholder in Everest Gaming which, as you know, is a part of Betclick Everest. I think GigaMedia in 2010 sold 60% of their gambling software business to Mangas Gaming (now Betclic Everest), owned by Lov Group and as mentioned, Société des Bains de Mer. But they still hold the remaining 40% (of what is now known as Everest Gaming).

From the press release at that time:

GigaMedia will continue to hold the remaining 40 percent interest with a put option to sell all or part to Mangas beginning in 2013. Beginning in 2015, Mangas will have a call option on any remaining shareholding held by GigaMedia.

I looked at a couple of quarterly reports (Q4 2011 released now in March) from GigaMedia and found some numbers regarding Everest Gaming:

Total revenues (Everest Gaming):

Q4 2011 $10,9 mill (including $7,4 from poker)
Q4 2010 $15,4 mill (including $10,8 from poker)

Unique active players (Everest Gaming):

Q4 2011 82 000
Q4 2010 146 000

Total net loss (Everest Gaming):

Q4 2011 $86,7 mill :eek::eek2:
Q4 2010 $8,6 mill


It is also interesting to see how excited they were in 2010 about the opening of the French market. We all know how that went :rolleyes:

"We are particularly excited about the opening of the French market slated for this Summer," stated GigaMedia CEO Arthur Wang. "Everest and Mangas are strongest in France and we see an enormous market opportunity for which we are best positioned."


Silencio: Everest Gaming is listed as a “brand” on their website. But I do not know how subsidiaries of Everest Gaming are organized. I see that the Everest Casino Group rep has not been logged in since last year (dormant account).
 
This is the latest release (this week) from Everest, which is adding new games: it perhaps answers Silencio's question...

"Everest Gaming is proud to announce the launch of new, thrilling third-party games for their world class casino brands Everest Casino, Imperial Casino, Casino Elegance, and Casino Lux. These additions to their vast library of exclusive games makes Everest a “one-stop shop” for games from industry leaders such as Ash Gaming, Cryptologic, Blueprint Gaming, Electracade, Playtech, and many more.

"Etienne Leroy, Director of Casino at Everest Gaming: “After a complete website makeover and the launch of an industry-leading VIP program, the expansion of our gaming portfolio is just the next step for us. We are committed to guaranteeing our players the best gaming experience, and there is more to come in 2012!”

With losses of almost $90 million, they appear to have a mountain to climb back to profitability.
 
Thanks guys, but I'm still confused :D
Although of one thing I'm sure, all those grand virtual casinos desperately need a redesign / new games / software.. One of my employees, who makes the screenshots, is still joking about how their games gave him seizures.
So at least them getting an upgrade is some great news. Let's hope it's not the same group..
 
Thanks guys, but I'm still confused :D
Although of one thing I'm sure, all those grand virtual casinos desperately need a redesign / new games / software.. One of my employees, who makes the screenshots, is still joking about how their games gave him seizures.
So at least them getting an upgrade is some great news. Let's hope it's not the same group..

Sorry, I did not read your question in your first post good enough. The Betclic Everest Group, to my knowledge, are connected to all of the casinos listed under “Everest Casino Group” in the accredited list. So when I said that players and affiliates should be careful about the Betclic Everest Group/ Everest Gaming, then this will include accredited casinos (including Everest Poker) listed under the Everest Casino Group.

(I think Everest Gaming previously has been known as Grand Virtual. They changed their name from Grand Virtual to Ultra Internet Media and finally to Everest Gaming. And Everest Gaming is a part of Betclic Everest)

..............................................................................

Please understand that I am not trying to bash these companies, but I think players should know that they are struggling.

As for Betclic, they used to be quite reputable and trustworthy. Cases like those mentioned in the CM warning are most likely a result of their financial difficulties, and also why players should avoid them.

I just recently read a thread concerning Expekt over at GPWA. Several members reported that Expekt would deactivate all aff. accounts because of "software migration". And that affiliates therefore would lose all of their players. It was also reported on another forum with this opening post:

I worked with Expekt affiliates now for around 5 years and bring a lot pof traffic during this time.
13/03/2012 I received a notive that they are going to close all accounts because they are switching to new affiliate software so they have :) and to close all current accounts.
after I asked about existing customers, they told me i will lose them definitely WITHOUT ANY PAYMENT. WTF

Do any of you know more about this, as I have not got it confirmed?
 
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(I think Everest Gaming previously has been known as Grand Virtual. They changed their name from Grand Virtual to Ultra Internet Media and finally to Everest Gaming. And Everest Gaming is a part of Betclic Everest)

Grand Virtual is the name of the casino software these casinos use.
 
Grand Virtual was a software provider in the industry - in Canada if memory serves me well - and I seem to recall they were bought by GigaMedia (a company in Taiwan) which had Everest in its stable. GigaMedia then became involved with Mangas, leading to the present developments. Business wheeling and dealing over a decade can often be confusing, so I'm open to correction here.
 
Grand Virtual was a software provider in the industry - in Canada if memory serves me well - and I seem to recall they were bought by GigaMedia (a company in Taiwan) which had Everest in its stable. GigaMedia then became involved with Mangas, leading to the present developments. Business wheeling and dealing over a decade can often be confusing, so I'm open to correction here.
You are correct - Grand Virtual was one of the very first brands listed here at Casinomeister. They've been here since 1998.

They have a new rep who signed up last month. Hopefully this person will be able to shed some light on this issue. i.e. what connection does Betclic have with the group of casinos listed in the Accredited section.
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/
 
Thanks for the information. I've worked (briefly) for Mangas and the management was a bit chaotic to be honest.

Let's just hope players/affiliates are not shafted.
 
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Thanks for the rep link Casinomeister!

It would be great if he could shade some lights yes :D

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As I said, I think those accredited casinos are connected to Betclic Everest (not only connected in ownership, but they are run by Betclic Everest). This information from GigaMedia`s annual report for 2011 (released today actually) also confirms this in my opinion (but I may be wrong of course):


Mangas Everest S.A.S. (“Mangas Everest” or the “Company) was formed by BetClic Everest Group (“BEG”) as a limited liability holding company in France in December 2008. On January 21, 2010, Mangas Everest was reorganized into a French Stock Company for the purpose of acquiring the assets and liabilities of an online gaming business (referred to herein as “Everest”). Through April 7, 2010, Everest was wholly-owned by Gigamedia Limited (“GigaMedia”), a company incorporated in Singapore.

In accordance with the terms of the transaction, Mangas Everest is 60 percent owned by BEG, which operates in the sports betting and online gaming industry, primarily in continental Europe, with a significant market presence in France; and is 40 percent owned by GigaMedia, which operates in the online gaming industry, primarily in Asia. Since the date of the acquisition, Mangas Everest has operated through its 11 majority-owned subsidiaries. See Note 16.



Everest.jpg

If you for example visit the accredited "Everest Casino", then you will find this statement:

This casino is owned and operated by Everest Gaming (Gibraltar) Ltd. Everest Gaming (Gibraltar) Ltd is regulated by the Licensing Authority of Gibraltar.

As mentioned, 60% is owned by Betclick Everest and 40% by GigaMedia. But GigaMedia has previously stated:

We do not control Everest Gaming’s management and hence have no control over its day-to-day business operations.

It is also worth mentioning that they also wrote this in their annual report published today:

In 2010 and 2011, Everest Gaming recorded an operating loss of US$24.2 million and US$111.1 million, respectively. Everest Gaming has been incurring losses and may not be able to obtain financing from third parties on attractive terms or at all.
 
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I just want to add one more thing from the report. This really shows us how serious the situation is at Everest Gaming. Very few players would probably have deposited at related brands if they had this information:


Everest Gaming may have insufficient resources to cover its operating expenses in 2012. We and BetClic have provided a certain amount of shareholder loans to Everest Gaming in proportion to our respective shareholding percentage in 2011. However, none of us or BetClic is obligated to provide any additional financing pursuant to the shareholders agreement or under the French law. We cannot assure you that we will continue providing additional financing to meet Everest Gaming’s working capital needs, and we may lose our return on our investment in the Everest Gaming business which will adversely affect our business and results of operations.




(Minor correction: The annual report I am referring to was filed a couple of weeks ago. It was Q1 2012 that was presented today.)
 
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I just want to add one more thing from the report published today. This really shows us how serious the situation is at Everest Gaming. Very few players would probably have deposited at related brands if they had this information:


Everest Gaming may have insufficient resources to cover its operating expenses in 2012. We and BetClic have provided a certain amount of shareholder loans to Everest Gaming in proportion to our respective shareholding percentage in 2011. However, none of us or BetClic is obligated to provide any additional financing pursuant to the shareholders agreement or under the French law. We cannot assure you that we will continue providing additional financing to meet Everest Gaming’s working capital needs, and we may lose our return on our investment in the Everest Gaming business which will adversely affect our business and results of operations.

Their casinos may be accredited, but so was Purple Lounge, and when Media Corp decided to no longer provide further cash to PL, we all know what happened.

This is a prime example of WHY the rogue business practice of one highly regarded company not only affects it's own credibilty, but damages the credibilty of others who show signs that they face a similar problem.

Everest may well ensure that player funds are not lost "in the works" when lack of money forces them to close, but the problems with Betclic finding excuses to delay payment, or confiscate payments due to some far fetched interpretations of the terms, does not bode well for players at any of the brands being looked after should the business be forced to close due to an inabilty to refinance.

Only time can tell, but players should ask themselves whether they want to have money sat in a Betclic run casino when the crunch comes, and have to worry about procedures for getting paid.

If Everest Gaming suddenly suffer "technical issues" with their software, and are promising to be "working on it", ..... RUN!!!!
 
After reading this and maxd's warning thread, it shed a little more light on the problem i am having with Casino Elegance...

I made a withdrawal to neteller for the rather low sum of $155 on Tuesday and being a past player i knew it would be paid Wednesday.

Well anyway, Wednesday came and went so Thursday I wrote and asked if there was a problem as maybe they wanted to do ID stuff again or something and this was their response.
Thank you for your inquiry.

You transaction will be proceed on this Friday. From then it will take
24 hours before you receive the funds in your account. We apologies for
any inconvenience.

That seemed rather strange to me so I wrote back and questioned why it would take that long when their website says 1 business day and also that is what it has been on every withdrawal previously, plus why do I have to wait another 24 hours after it is processed for the funds to "reach" my neteller account (i have only ever gotten this line when a casino has been stalling on payment by the way).

Response was rather alarming especially since it is an accredited casino..:(
Thank you for your inquiry.

Casino transaction are only being processed once a week at this moment.
When it will be processed the normal handling time of Neteller. In the
near future we will handel these payments every day again. We apologies
for the inconvenience.

So things must be getting REALLY bad over their right now and like I said, it was only a small withdrawal too.

I hope they get back on track and not dumped in the casino graveyard as I really started to dig their new games and other interesting ones only found there.
 
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I listened to GigaMedia`s Q1 presentation from Taiwan last night on live webcast, so just some updates based on that:

CEO John Stringe said this (about Everest Gaming): “they are struggling. Business and profit/loss are weak. Last quarter we wrote off our total investment".

Everest Gaming are raising capital (“to fund them a bit longer” as it was said). GigaMedia did not want to be a part of this in Q1, so their interest in Everest Gaming are now down to 34% (from 40%).

GamingIntelligence wrote this earlier today:

GigaMedia attributed the omission to the failure on the part of Betclic Everest to provide it with financial results for the first quarter of 2012, but GigaMedia CEO John Stringer offered little hope for optimism when questioned about the subject.”


You can listen to a replay of their presentation here (available for 7 days):

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


Everest Gaming related issues are mentioned in the Q/A-session at the end of the presentation (from about 18.55 min)
 
This looks like they are about to implode.

They have not told anybody about this severe cutback to once a week for withdrawals, but are only saying so when people ask about the delay. The 24 hours to reach Neteller can be ignored, it is merely an ass covering statement, as unless Neteller is down for maintenance, crediting is immediate.

Processing only on Friday will save them money as they only need to employ the staff for one day, not five. They may also have lost enough players to make such a cutback viable.

The signs are clear, unless they get some kind of bailout, such as new finance, they are on the way out. Prudent players should withdraw NOW, and hope they stick around till next Friday to process the withdrawals.

Only when fresh finance has been agreed should players consider it safe to return.

Given how the Purple Lounge meltdown caught almost everybody by surprise, we can't say that this can't turn bad just because this has been a long term accredited group generating few complaints.

The signs are that the whole industry is about to go through a hard time, and there will be more closures, mergers, takeovers, and of course, operators who hang on to the bitter end with hope, rather than working capital, placing players' balances at an unacceptable risk.
 
Response from Everest Gaming

Hello all,

My name is Itsik Akiva, and I am the Director of Acquisition Marketing at Everest Gaming. I would like to thank you for your interest in Everest Gaming, its online properties and results, and share with you some information that would hopefully shed some more light on our current and future operations as well as the stability of our business.

I could start by explaining the different financial metrics and reports for Everest gaming or its parent companies, but I believe that this is not the point of this thread. I can summarize our situation by saying that while the current environment is much more challenging than any in our 15 year history, and while our operational results did weaken in 2011 vs. 2010 (along with most of the industry, particularly the operators with significant presence in France) we have been able to reverse the trend and the company is now gradually improving its financial performance.

Those of you who follow our company and brands know that we have been in business as a reputable and accredited operator since 1997 for casino & since 2004 for poker. We also operate Everest Affiliates, an awards winning affiliate program (including Best Poker Affiliate program at the 2012 iGaming Business Awards).

In recent years our company went through several strategic changes with the sale to Mangas Gaming (now Betclic Everest group), the regulation of several key markets (notably France) and the implementation of multiple organizational changes.

Many of those changes are reflected in financial reports and statements that some of your readership have quoted (and misquoted) While we do not argue with the overall sentiment, i.e. that our 2011 financial performance weakened in comparison to prior years , please keep in mind that the information in those reports can easily be taken out of context.

Much of the weakness sighted in our financial results (see attachment) is attributable to two phenomena: First, ongoing reorganizational efforts and secondly, the unnatural economic environment in France as a result of a very burdensome and tax regime which has been well documented by your readers and others throughout the industry.

Reorganizational efforts take time, are expensive and are inefficient by their very nature. Similarly, the tax regime in France, in the opinions of many, has negatively impacted player behavior in a manner almost unimaginable just two years ago. You can see this in great detail in the annual reports of our peers with substantial operations in France.

In 2011 these two phenomena manifested themselves in a “write-down” or “impairment” of our shareholder’s investment in Everest. This write down is responsible for nearly 70% of Everest’s 2011 loss. Not operational losses, not use of cash. This is an accounting adjustment which has absolutely nothing to do with Everest’s ability to continue providing great customer service, continue paying its players promptly and continue providing the most fun, unpretentious, online gaming destination for players of all skill levels. To claim that this 59M EUR accounting entry has any bearing on Everest’s overall financial fortitude, which some posters have, is misinformed information at best or disingenuous at worst.

So in closing, while 2011 was not a profitable year, and while 2012 continues to be a somewhat challenging environment, Everest continues to be a well-funded, shareholder-supported operator that looks forward to continuing to provide our players worldwide the enjoyable online experience they’ve been accustomed to for years and years to come.

Of course, actions speak louder than words (or reports), so to really evaluate the stability and future of our company and brands I would like to point your attention to our actions. After years of continuous growth and investment in our poker products we took a strategic decision to put our casino product and brands at the top of our priority list. Although this decision was taken only several months ago, we are very proud to highlight a long list of achievements, with many new features and product improvements scheduled to be rolled out in the coming months: We gave a new and more modern look to Everest casino and Casino Elegance, introduced comp points and launched a very rewarding VIP program for all brands, added many recurring promotions, and integrated 3rd party games (with many more games to be added every month). In the pipeline for the coming months are the integration of Live Casino and the roll out of a web based real money casino. Other improvements include a more dedicated and proactive customer service and VIP management, new payment methods etc.

As you can see, we have a very ambitious plan and we are making great progress in executing it. In my view, these are not the actions of a company that is on its way down, but rather of a company that is bouncing up again and is focusing on its long term vision.

Another very important point is licensing and auditing. Everest Gaming is one of few operators licensed in Gibraltar as well as by ARJEL in France. As part of the terms of our license player funds must be completely segregated and secured at all times. If there were any concerns for the safety of player funds we would have not been able to retain our licenses. Additionally as a subsidiary of BetClic Everest Group (formerly Mangas Gaming) our financial results are audited semi-annually and reviewed annually by licensed external auditors.

Lastly, It is true that Everest gaming is now part of the Betclic Everest Group, however we operate as separate entities. For anything that is player and affiliate facing Everest Gaming and its brands are completely independent. In other words our team is at your service for anything related to the following gaming and affiliate brands: Everest Casino, Everest Poker, Casino Elegance, Imperial Casino, Casino Glamour, Casino Lux, Casino Treasure, Casino Fantasy, Home of Fun and Everest Affiliates. We have no involvement in nor influence over any brands operated by our sister companies, including Betclic, Expekt, Bet-at-Home, Monte Carlo Casino or their respective affiliate programs.

I am hoping to leverage this thread to rejuvenate the relationship between Everest gaming and the Casinomeister community. In the coming weeks we will introduce some members of our team so that players and affiliates alike can engage in direct conversation with us, provide feedback, share their experience and also resolve any potential disputes and disagreements.

Thank you,

Itsik Akiva
 

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Whilst I have thanked the Everest Gaming player acquisition manager for his post above, I have to say that in my opinion this looks like a belated smoke-and-mirrors damage control job, and I remain unconvinced.

Regardless of how you frame them - and I do not believe the write down can be dismissed so casually - the numbers don't lie (and I do not see where they have been "misquoted" in this thread); the financial health of Everest Gaming is clearly not good, as has been admitted.

From a practical player's viewpoint the slowdown in payments and less than communicative management is a red flag when viewed in the context of Everest's parents' factual financial reportage.

Improvements may very well be in progress in making the enterprise's content and appearance more appealing, but that won't be any comfort to players if the company's owners pull the plug and leave them uninformed and worried about their money, as we have seen in other industry failures.

I have to say that recent events in the industry have seriously dented my faith in regulators, too; for all the PR statements asserting their concern with player protection, there has been precious little from this quarter to reassure players in debacles like Purple Lounge and Full Tilt Poker, where it appears that the player community is the last thing on the regulators' and the licensees' minds when things go to hell in a bucket.

I'm afraid I remain sceptical and very, very cautious on this.
 
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Thank you for taking the time to respond in this thread itsik_Everest. It is much appreciated!

Some final comments.


I would first like to say something about Everest Gaming`s relationship to those other brands. Yes, of course is Everest Gaming formally independent from Betclic, Bet-at-home, Monte Carlo Online and Expekt. But this does not change the fact that all of the accredited Everest casinos have the same controlling owner as mentioned brands.

Managers come and go, but your owner will still be Betclic Everest. This means that if for example Betclic is thrown into the rogue pit, then we will have a strange situation where the same owner has casinos listed in both the rogue pit and in the accredited section.

And ownership matters. At the end of the day, whether you have played at this brand or that brand, you are supporting the same company. And this company is Betclic Everest. The same company that obviously does not care so much about the fact that some of your sister companies are treating players like crap.




And now to Everest Gaming`s financial situation. Regardless of how you put it, Everest Gaming`s financial situation is terrible.

I see you have included some numbers from Everest Gaming`s financial statement in your post.

I would like to add some of the notes to that same financial statement (and no, these are not misquotes. It really is that bad) :


-The Company has not generated cash flows from operations and has primarily relied upon advances from its shareholders to fund operations. These conditions raise substantial doubt about the Company’s ability to continue as a going concern.

-Everest has experienced a significant decrease in net gaming revenue and a significant increase in loss after tax as compared to prior years

-The Company will continue to have a high degree of economic dependence upon such financial support until it achieves consistently profitable operations



Should it matter for players that Everest Gaming`s financial situation is terrible? Yes, it should. Everest Gaming is now in a very serious situation where they must perform. Companies under similar conditions will sometimes do stupid things that may save them for a short while, but at the same time will destroy them in the longer run. If that struggling company is a casino, then one example of a short-sighted change may be if they suddenly implements a withdrawal system where they only process withdrawals from players once a week. Another example may be if they start to confiscate winnings based on...well...nothing, like Betclic.

I personally believe that all brands connected to Betclic Everest should be removed from the accredited list. To guide players to Everest Gaming under these circumstances is not a good thing.

To summarize: Players should in my opinion avoid Betclic, Everest Poker, Imperial Casino, Everest Casino, Casino Treasure, Casino Glamour, Casino Fantasy, Casino Elegance, Bet-at-home, Expekt, Monte Carlo Online and Casino Lux.
 
Should it matter for players that Everest Gaming`s financial situation is terrible?, Rainmaker asks.

You're damned right it should - and for all the reasons that Rainmaker has listed.

There's also the question of this company's future viability if it is depending so heavily on shareholder lifesavers rather than operational success, because mounting losses may well deter investors from continuing to shore up a possibly failing enterprise...and that's a good reason for the company to have a spokesman in here trying to explain that the losses are not really as bad as they look because most are writedowns by shareholders.

Writedowns are an indication of a shareholder assessment of the situation.

In cases like this, digging into the factual reportage and exposing the real picture as Rainmaker has done is more valuable from a player p.o.v., to verbose and possibly misleading statements from a company employee assuring that everything is going to be fine and making accusations of misquotes imo. The negative publicity might not sit well with the company concerned, which is probably primarily focused on shareholder reactions anyway, but it is the truth.

So it's important that players know what is really going on in cases like this. If the owners decide the game is no longer worth the candle it is the players who will be hit in the pocket as well as the shareholders who pull the plug, and as we have seen in other cases, the regulators and auditors may have a slew of explanations as to why they were not on the ball and did not act proactively before the collapse occurred...cold comfort for the player.

I have to agree with Rainmaker on the ownership issue - as the major shareholder BEG is in a position to influence events at Everest Gaming - for good or for bad. Unacceptable behaviour in one part of the group is therefore a reflection on other companies within that group.

Pulling the wagons into a circle and ignoring player, mediator and media enquiries is not a good indicator for how an organisation might handle a corporate failure from a player p.o.v., and should be a warning in itself.



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