Ask me anything (about slots)!

[CasinoNinja]

I got a question regarding the £100 compensated jackpot slots you find in the arcades in the UK. Are each individual game on the machine there running on its it's own compensated pot, or is it just the machines?

 

[TheAddict]

Each game is running seperately m8. And if it's a machine that has many games to choose from, some might not get much regular playthrough. So if ya take an unusually big profit from one, might be wise to consider leaving it a decade or two before returning.

 

[CasinoNinja]

Each game is running seperately m8. And if it's a machine that has many games to choose from, some might not get much regular playthrough. So if ya take an unusually big profit from one, might be wise to consider leaving it a decade or two before returning.

Well, what I usually do on them is to check if the silver or bronze pot is near a £100, as it in my eyes then have been played on for a bit, the other day I was chasing a pot on the friends game and when I had won it I changed to another one who had the bronze on to £100 and got a repeat, so about £250 profit.

So was just wondering if that was the best strategy..
Another question is if the different stake had their own compensated pool?

 

[trancemonkey]

Well, what I usually do on them is to check if the silver or bronze pot is near a £100, as it in my eyes then have been played on for a bit, the other day I was chasing a pot on the friends game and when I had won it I changed to another one who had the bronze on to £100 and got a repeat, so about £250 profit.

So was just wondering if that was the best strategy..
Another question is if the different stake had their own compensated pool?

I have done compensated games in the past where each stake has it's own compensator, and also games where all stakes use the same compensator, so there us no hard and fast rule here.

But yes, I can almost guarantee that all games have their own compensator... it wouldn't make sense to have a central compensator, otherwise there would be mon point playing a different game once winning out of one of them.

 

[trancemonkey]

Ask anything. Shouldnt the J’s jn attached screenshot also be a win And disappear?
View attachment 111262

Yeah, that is almost certainly a visual bug.

 

[tazmart]

Trance, just wondering if the final winning amount in free spin rounds are already decided by the RNG at the beginning, or is each spin done separately. I've noticed in Star Raiders that sometimes the final winning amount is added to my balance before the spins even start, which sort of ruins the whole thing.

 

[joerdj]

Some providers do it as a bundle ( rng call for 10 spins for example and then the bonus starts) or like BTG every spins in the bonus is a separate call. So spin 1 , call , result. Spin 2 call, result, ect. But in the end it does not really matter (statistics wise) . It's just more efficient to do one call for ten spins

 

[joerdj]

But I have another question. In White Rabbit are the cupcakes part of the reelset, or are these decided on a separate "gamble" . Those freaking thing always disappear when my reel is at 8/9 symbols...

 

[trancemonkey]

Trance, just wondering if the final winning amount in free spin rounds are already decided by the RNG at the beginning, or is each spin done separately. I've noticed in Star Raiders that sometimes the final winning amount is added to my balance before the spins even start, which sort of ruins the whole thing.

The answer Joerdj gave is correct... some providers bundle it at the start of the free games, some do it per spin. Bundling at the start though is very different to free games rounds that are predetermined...

For example, when the free games are triggered, the server basically plays out all your spins and then sends the result one by one. This is different to the server just picked from a huge set of already played rounds of free games (like Jammin Jars)

 

[joerdj]

The answer Joerdj gave is correct... some providers bundle it at the start of the free games, some do it per spin. Bundling at the start though is very different to free games rounds that are predetermined...

For example, when the free games are triggered, the server basically plays out all your spins and then sends the result one by one. This is different to the server just picked from a huge set of already played rounds of free games (like Jammin Jars)

That like a bag with balls in it, server randomly picks a ball at the start with 700x, you get 700x with "randomly" moving Jammin Jars

 

[trancemonkey]

That like a bag with balls in it, server randomly picks a ball at the start with 700x, you get 700x with "randomly" moving Jammin Jars

Jammin Jars uses predetermined sequences... so imagine there are 15m sequences in the bag, and then when you press start, it picks one of those at random. So the result is still random, but the visuals are predetermined.

 

[trancemonkey]

But I have another question. In White Rabbit are the cupcakes part of the reelset, or are these decided on a separate "gamble" . Those freaking thing always disappear when my reel is at 8/9 symbols...

Good question... there are two ways I would do it. One is to do as you suggest and have the cups as separate from the reel bands, so you have a different chance of one landing in view with each different reel length. The other is that you have a different reel band(s) depending on the length of the reel currently shown in view, and as the reels lengthen, the number of cups on the reel bands reduce.

 

[joerdj]

Jammin Jars uses predetermined sequences... so imagine there are 15m sequences in the bag, and then when you press start, it picks one of those at random. So the result is still random, but the visuals are predetermined.

Yeah that I understand, but the movement of the Jars is not really "random" cause if it's not in the predetermined sequence than its never ever going to happen. Think there is already a long discussion about this ( Chopley I think)
Cause if a Jar does not appear in the top right corner in any of the 15 milion sequences that are programmed then it will , with 100% certainty , never appear. With truly randomly moving jars it would

 

[trancemonkey]

Yeah that I understand, but the movement of the Jars is not really "random" cause if it's not in the predetermined sequence than its never ever going to happen. Think there is already a long discussion about this ( Chopley I think)

Yup, I commented on it. My advice to Push was not to use the word "randomly", as it is not true.

 

[joerdj]

Good question... there are two ways I would do it. One is to do as you suggest and have the cups as separate from the reel bands, so you have a different chance of one landing in view with each different reel length. The other is that you have a different reel band(s) depending on the length of the reel currently shown in view, and as the reels lengthen, the number of cups on the reel bands reduce.

And if you think about it , it's really clever programming. People tend to think ( me included ) that when I have longer reels I have a bigger chance of landing a cupcake cause I have more spots that I can land on, in reality the chance is probably less with longer reels that it is with shorter reels.
It is just a bit sad the on White Rabbit it's pretty noticeable

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

Trance - You know where I can get hold of/find out versions/updates of online blueprint slots?

 

[trancemonkey]

Trance - You know where I can get hold of/find out versions/updates of online blueprint slots?

Not sure what you mean... do you mean information on when they update games and what version numbers they are?

 

[trancemonkey]

And if you think about it , it's really clever programming. People tend to think ( me included ) that when I have longer reels I have a bigger chance of landing a cupcake cause I have more spots that I can land on, in reality the chance is probably less with longer reels that it is with shorter reels.
It is just a bit sad the on White Rabbit it's pretty noticeable

An interesting comment...
Although do you really think that, the more expensive something becomes (I.e longer reels) the more likely it is to happen?

 

[joerdj]

An interesting comment...
Although do you really think that, the more expensive something becomes (I.e longer reels) the more likely it is to happen?

Well in this case 12 symbols is a retrigger so I becomes harder. But natural instinct just tells you that there are more spots that a cupcake can land on , so you think you have higher change.

And just in general : Most people suck hard in calculating and understanding probabillity...

 

[joerdj]

I have another question. But I think a know the answer, I will ask anyway. In Opal Fruits or Bonanza, are the letters really on the reelset, or is it just a blank spot that gets filled in accordingly of how much scatters are showing on the screen ?

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

If you have an iPhone record the reels in the slow mo mode as they spin and you’ll get your answer!!! I’m that sad I’ve done it!!

Yes trance in answer to your reply - I’m basically wanting to know which (if any) blueprint games have had updates, since their first release. So I guess version numbers would tell me this aswell.

I notice some providers give you this info within the help files but I can’t find it within the blueprint games.

 

[joerdj]

99.9 % sure there a blank spots , and get filled in when they land in view

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

According to my slow mo vids u r correct!!

 

[trancemonkey]

99.9 % sure there a blank spots , and get filled in when they land in view

Afraid I dont know the answer to this.. probably on the reels, but there are other (compliant and fair) ways to do it.

 

[joerdj]

Afraid I dont know the answer to this.. probably on the reels, but there are other (compliant and fair) ways to do it.

Well with the dynamic reels size and the fact 2 can land on one reel I think that the most easy way is do scatter spots with no letters and those get filled in when they land. Otherwise I may be a possibility that 2 of the same letter appear

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

They are just gold bars and when they land the letter is assigned.

You can only get 2 scatters on the same reel during a cascade. Not in the individual ‘first’ spin of the base game. The cascades that follow are all pre-determined as a result of that first spin.

 

[snorky510238]

Ask anything. Shouldnt the J’s jn attached screenshot also be a win And disappear?
View attachment 111262

This happens on Bonanza a lot. This is what I think is going on.

As soon as you press spin the outcome is known for example win/lose or trigger feature so if it’s a winning spin the total is also known. The game then decides how to display that total so if it’s a £10 win it could be just a few purples or it could do 4 cascades of jacks and queens etc.

The most likely time to get a disconnection is during a cascade. Now the game already knew the total you were going to win which tells you the cascades are NOT random. When you reload the total is already added to your balance.

When you recover the game it only remembers the total but it cannot recover the exact format in which it was going to pay it so it just runs out something visually different but once the total is reached it doesn’t allow for anymore reactions irrespective of if a win is being displayed.

 

[slotter999]

99.9 % sure there a blank spots , and get filled in when they land in view

I'm also sure this is the case.

The reel strips for Bonanza are available and have been studied. I don't recall which key is used for the scatters but they are definitely fixed positions in the arrays. The adding of a letter over the symbol is just UI stuff. If you were to look at the JavaScript behind it all you could demonstrate exactly where it happens (if you're that way inclined).

 

[SteveBr]

Hi @trancemonkey, is it possible to have more than one set of RNG results in use for a game? I.e one set of numbers with possibly a higher return of winning spins and another set with less?

 

[johnnymcc1966]

They are just gold bars and when they land the letter is assigned.

You can only get 2 scatters on the same reel during a cascade. Not in the individual ‘first’ spin of the base game. The cascades that follow are all pre-determined as a result of that first spin.

I've had all 4 fall on the first cascade after a win,is that what you meant in that you can only get 2 maximum after this stage?

 

[snorky510238]

No he means on the original spin you can’t get two scatters on the same reel. Once it starts cascading anything can happen.

 

[johnnymcc1966]

No he means on the original spin you can’t get two scatters onthe same reel. Once it starts cascading anything can happen.

Interesting.

 

[trancemonkey]

This happens on Bonanza a lot. This is what I think is going on.

As soon as you press spin the outcome is known for example win/lose or trigger feature so if it’s a winning spin the total is also known. The game then decides how to display that total so if it’s a £10 win it could be just a few purples or it could do 4 cascades of jacks and queens etc.

The most likely time to get a disconnection is during a cascade. Now the game already knew the total you were going to win which tells you the cascades are NOT random. When you reload the total is already added to your balance.

When you recover the game it only remembers the total but it cannot recover the exact format in which it was going to pay it so it just runs out something visually different but once the total is reached it doesn’t allow for anymore reactions irrespective of if a win is being displayed.

You debunk your own idea here...
If the result was known at the start, and just the method of display was chosen, then the game would NEVER be able to disconnect during a cascade because, according to you, it knows the outcome already.

The fact it CAN disconnect proves almost 100% that it is making a decision on the server for those cascade symbols.

 

[trancemonkey]

No he means on the original spin you can’t get two scatters on the same reel. Once it starts cascading anything can happen.

Because the original reel stop position is using reel bands, and the cascades are using some other determination.

 

[trancemonkey]

Hi @trancemonkey, is it possible to have more than one set of RNG results in use for a game? I.e one set of numbers with possibly a higher return of winning spins and another set with less?

So just to be clear, a game doesnt contain a set of RNG results in the way I think you think it does...

A reel based game will contain reel bands - it may contain many different sets of reel bands.

The game will ask the server to give it a random number (or numbers) that it needs in order to determine the outcome of the game.

And yes it is possible that, on the press of the start button, it has multiple different sets of reel bands it can pick from (at random).

 

[snorky510238]

You debunk your own idea here...
If the result was known at the start, and just the method of display was chosen, then the game would NEVER be able to disconnect during a cascade because, according to you, it knows the outcome already.

The fact it CAN disconnect proves almost 100% that it is making a decision on the server for those cascade symbols.

In the past people have reloaded only for the outcome (total) of the bonus round to already be displaying in their balance how do you account for that when they haven’t even started the bonus round?

 

[CasinoNinja]

In the past people have reloaded only for the outcome (total) of the bonus round to already be displaying in their balance how do you account for that when they haven’t even started the bonus round?

I'm pretty sure that depends on the game. Bonus rounds are usually bulk loaded from the start when you press the spin, some if for whatever reason you got DC, the game already knows how much you got paid. While BTG usually loads each single spin from the server, so you shouldn't see the total bonus outcome then from their games.

 

[snorky510238]

I'm pretty sure that depends on the game. Bonus rounds are usually bulk loaded from the start when you press the spin, some if for whatever reason you got DC, the game already knows how much you got paid. While BTG usually loads each single spin from the server, so you shouldn't see the total bonus outcome then from their games.

That’s why I mentioned it. This happened to @pinnit2014 whilst playing Bonanza. He hit a bonus round but got disconnected before he could start it. When he reconnected the total had been added to his balance. He then played it out knowing the amount he would get.

 

[TheAddict]

That’s why I mentioned it. This happened to @pinnit2014 whilst playing Bonanza. He hit a bonus round but got disconnected before he could start it. When he reconnected the total had been added to his balance. He then played it out knowing the amount he would get.

I'm guessing the btg geezer never responded to this? If this did happen (not that i don't trust Pinnits words) I would like to see what he might respond with. Did he not state that eacn spin within the free spins of bonanza are independently random? (allowing for the, lol, ability to claim an unlimited multiplier potential).
Dunno if was always the case, because I'm not cyber stalking him, but was thinking the other week that some of his posts seem to be around 1-2am UK time these days, and it made me chuckle, i was jokingly thinking perhaps he was sneaking in at the quietest hours to avoid confrontation

 

[pinnit2014]

That’s why I mentioned it. This happened to @pinnit2014 whilst playing Bonanza. He hit a bonus round but got disconnected before he could start it. When he reconnected the total had been added to his balance. He then played it out knowing the amount he would get.

These days I know the amount anyway, whilst keeping my eyes closed ; 3x to 49x range

 

[trancemonkey]

I'm guessing the btg geezer never responded to this? If this did happen (not that i don't trust Pinnits words) I would like to see what he might respond with. Did he not state that eacn spin within the free spins of bonanza are independently random? (allowing for the, lol, ability to claim an unlimited multiplier potential).
Dunno if was always the case, because I'm not cyber stalking him, but was thinking the other week that some of his posts seem to be around 1-2am UK time these days, and it made me chuckle, i was jokingly thinking perhaps he was sneaking in at the quietest hours to avoid confrontation

Well, as BTG are based in Sydney, Australia...

And as for the disconnect and then the full balance being added, this is also a fail safe built in and, I believe, is part of the regulations.

The server MUST be able to finish the bonus round in the case of a disconnection. Here's why...

Let's say you are playing a game, and your internet goes down. What if you NEVER reconnect to that game? The outcome is pending forever, right? Which is unfair, so the server plays out the remaining spins and adds the total to your bank.

There are many other reasons a server would play out the rest of your bonus round... that is just one obvious one.

It is in no way proof of anything dodgy, and is in fact a safety measure built in for the players benefit!

 

[TheAddict]

It was a joke when i said him being around at 1-2am to avoid confrontation, it was more aimed at the fact that he is hiding because of doa2 ;p . I figured it would be time zones etc ;p
i know what you're saying, but i was under the impression Pinnit hadn't started the bonus round.. but logged back in and then started it, but it had already decided what he won, and then after reconnecting and clicking start for the first time, it played out the spins with an now pre determined amount of which it had decided he won, despite not clicking start the previous time

That's what im reading from the above anyway. I appreciate what you're saying, and yes that is a fairly obvious explanation, if he was half way through or something. But the spins were (unless what im reading above is wrong, or Pinnit can correct me) never started for them to be able to "play out the rest" in the first place?

 

[goatwack]

I'm getting from this that the Bonanza free spins are all random and 'in the moment', unless of course disconnected

 

[pinnit2014]

It was a joke when i said him being around at 1-2am to avoid confrontation, it was more aimed at the fact that he is hiding because of doa2 ;p . I figured it would be time zones etc ;p
i know what you're saying, but i was under the impression Pinnit hadn't started the bonus round.. but logged back in and then started it, but it had already decided what he won, and then after reconnecting and clicking start for the first time, it played out the spins with an now pre determined amount of which it had decided he won, despite not clicking start the previous time

That's what im reading from the above anyway. I appreciate what you're saying, and yes that is a fairly obvious explanation, if he was half way through or something. But the spins were (unless what im reading above is wrong, or Pinnit can correct me) never started for them to be able to "play out the rest" in the first place?

IIRC: I hadn’t started it. The GOLD was on the screen with a cascade still left and the game froze. However, my balance had jumped up : when I say Jumped up, it was the BTG version of it: 26X. So it just stuck there. And the bonus was 26x once sorted.

Least it skipped straight to the awful result rather than getting me up to x6 with 11 spins left and playing out the rest dead ;-)

 

[snorky510238]

I have been disconnected halfway through bonus rounds countless times on Bonanza, Chilli and Dhv and not once has the total been displayed when I reloaded. It always says recovering game and takes you back to just before the disconnection.

As pinnit hadn’t even pressed start he hadn’t in effect asked for a response from the server. It would be the same as triggering the bonus and thinking I will logout and plays it 4 hours later for example. When you log back in it would still be there.

 

[pinnit2014]

I have been disconnected halfway through bonus rounds countless times on Bonanza, Chilli and Dhv and not once has the total been displayed when I reloaded. It always says recovering game and takes you back to just before the disconnection.

As pinnit hadn’t even pressed start he hadn’t in effect asked for a response from the server. It would be the same as triggering the bonus and thinking I will logout and plays it 4 hours later for example. When you log back in it would still be there.

I kept logging in hoping for a different result so if I saw a 4Kx: screenshot, phone Sydney and say ‘I’ll take that random result, not the one before and not the one after, THAT’

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

Trance - The cascades in the base game are definitely decided on the press of the button. Sometimes if ur not on autoplay the balance already updates before the spin has finished even if there are several cascades still to go. How would it know the outcome if each cascade was a separate call??

I’ve also deposited when the balance was running low, left the game running in the back ground and had the newly deposited balance show a huge base game hit which did about 7/8 cascades. So it knew exactly what was coming way before the ‘spin’ had played out.

Unless of course it’s so quick playing them all out behind the scenes and we see the result later???

Still waiting for a possible answer on my earlier question about blue print updates and versions for online games???

 

[trancemonkey]

Trance - The cascades in the base game are definitely decided on the press of the button. Sometimes if ur not on autoplay the balance already updates before the spin has finished even if there are several cascades still to go. How would it know the outcome if each cascade was a separate call??

I’ve also deposited when the balance was running low, left the game running in the back ground and had the newly deposited balance show a huge base game hit which did about 7/8 cascades. So it knew exactly what was coming way before the ‘spin’ had played out.

Unless of course it’s so quick playing them all out behind the scenes and we see the result later???

Still waiting for a possible answer on my earlier question about blue print updates and versions for online games???

Sorry mate... re: Blueprint, I have no idea. I am not sure any provider makes these public unless the version is shown in the help file

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

Bugger

 

[trancemonkey]

Bugger

Found an emptier on a specific version of a game have we