Any high rollers here?

[Playford7]

I wonder if BOD is really a good example.

I concur i have never seen them land on a big bet but i dont watch a lot of videos or streamers and like i say, not seen it myself.

I think Harry mentioned the amount of spins done on that game and its a crazy amount every day (sorry i cant recall) so i wonder if because its played for millions of spins at mostly lower bets plus the randomness would mean its less likely to see the max on max bet.

Though i am now wondering if my logic should be reversed - because of the amount its played we should have

Interesting anomaly if it is true but maybe its just that - an anomaly and you could do it next time, fingers crossed eh. Reckon PnG have the answer.

Few years back at videoslots I won 1000 spins on bod. Got a full screen of the Egypt dude, think dream did also who’s on here.
Out of the thousands of spins in the competition out of the thousands of players not one hit full screen explorer and that was on minimum bet.
So shows how rare it actually is.

 

[Bloatgoat]

The highest i ever had was on a game named Kronos (WMS, Landbased). I stuck 250 in the machine, pressed 5 times spin on 50 euro bet, and luckily a bonus landed. The outcome was 4900 or so, but pretty much the same result in a way i would get when playing 20 a spin or so. Perhaps my gametime would be extended, when a machine is ready to pay it's going to pay. Left or right.

But virtually impossible to strike really the theoretical max win of 45k. My assumption was: there's no volume for that amount. You got no players hacking onto 60 a spin. I tried more often enough, trust me. Every handpay that came from one machine flew into the other up to a 3000 bankroll to hit the game on 60 a spin. I got no more close then a bit of my money back and if i sticked for too long i would have lost it. Because the money was from the casino, and not mines, i did'nt feel like it was lost. Highest i got on that game was 8500 euro or so on a 20 euro bonus game.

Dead or alive has the same behaviour. Low wagering takes an awefull lot of time to not just trigger but also land some good base wins. Higher bets do favor more bonusses and overall better payback (but still at a losing rate) and max bets varying from 9 up to 18 a spin just presents a more faster loss. Sure, it takes just one bonus but games do have a different RTP it seems on various bets.

 

[bamberfishcake]

Dead or alive has the same behaviour. Low wagering takes an awefull lot of time to not just trigger but also land some good base wins. Higher bets do favor more bonusses and overall better payback

I like DOA. What sort of amount would you deem a higher bet to notice do you think?

Would you have to play hundreds of thousands of spins at lower and then higher to be sure of a difference?

Even then you would need several people to confirm the same to question due to the randomness. Just thinking out loud.

 

[neon claws]

I regret this thread.

 

[andym]

There's way more to it. However if you tell that here you get boo'd out because others believe it aint true. Sorry i play long enough to know slots are'nt random as they are presented to us. Try a big withdrawl, and see if slots would hit after that. Really. That's enough proof of the above.

So true mate!
Although slotmonkey here in the forum will tell you that this is crap...

BoD was only an example. Take another game like danger. Check out the ‚Max-boom-wins’ ppl have with 0,2 or 0,4eur and check if you can find one (only one!) comparable win with a bet 10eur or higher.

 

[k6kaysix]

Does Book Of Dead bonus more than Book Of Ra or is it exactly the same? I think the slow tease on Book Of Dead plays mind tricks in that you feel it comes in more often compared to Book Of Ra which just slams the books in on the reels (although I noticed the other month at least in the land based they now seem to have sneakily updated it to do a 'Der der derrr derrrrr derrrrr' tease!)

Also what is the difference between say Legacy Of Dead and Magic Mirror? As in they both give you an extra symbol with a retrigger - but you only get 8 spins on Legacy compared to the normal 10 on Mirror!

Weirdly I've found on Book Of Ra if you get one of the lower symbols for the bonus it likes to sneak in a full line of the Explorer to make up for it now and again - very rarely of course!

 

[Bloatgoat]

So true mate!
Although slotmonkey here in the forum will tell you that this is crap...

I've seen it a quite a few casino's myself, and with friends. Anyone withdrawing big is guaranteed to be hanging on the edge for a while.

I like DOA. What sort of amount would you deem a higher bet to notice do you think?

Would you have to play hundreds of thousands of spins at lower and then higher to be sure of a difference?

Even then you would need several people to confirm the same to question due to the randomness. Just thinking out loud.

I'm not the one who's going to tell you what todo or not. My experience is if a slot does'nt really trigger in between 25 to 50 spins i either change bet or i leave.

I regret this thread.

It's a forum. People can comment.

 

[Reelsoffun]

Sure, it takes just one bonus but games do have a different RTP it seems on various bets.

You're wrong, and right, except for games that clearly state they have a different RTP in the pay table, no games change RTP for the different stakes, however each stake can have a totally different profile, this is mostly to reduce the liability for higher stakes for the casino. There can be often a shift in base vs feature RTP at higher stakes, this is totally legal and doesn't have to be explained to the player in the game rules.

I'm not saying all games do this but there are definitely some.

Which personally if I was part of the UKGC I would change as the player should be made aware that this can be the case.

 

[Bloatgoat]

Well in a way that is what i was saying. Youve corrected it right, "Profile" for various bets, which makes perfectly sense. You cant have the same hitrate as on 20 cents vs 40 euro a spin.

 

[Kroffe]

You're wrong, and right, except for games that clearly state they have a different RTP in the pay table, no games change RTP for the different stakes, however each stake can have a totally different profile, this is mostly to reduce the liability for higher stakes for the casino. There can be often a shift in base vs feature RTP at higher stakes, this is totally legal and doesn't have to be explained to the player in the game rules.

I'm not saying all games do this but there are definitely some.

Which personally if I was part of the UKGC I would change as the player should be made aware that this can be the case.

Wich slots do you know that changes how the rtp is distributed based on stake?

 

[CasinoNinja]

Wich slots do you know that changes how the rtp is distributed based on stake?

There is few old scientific gaming slots that has 94% RTP on anything less than £2 stake and 96%+ on higher stake.

 

[Reelsoffun]

There is few old scientific gaming slots that has 94% RTP on anything less than £2 stake and 96%+ on higher stake.

That's not the same as what he asked they adjust RTP per stake, the ones he asked were ones that adjust the profile on different stakes. Two very different things.

 

[Reelsoffun]

Wich slots do you know that changes how the rtp is distributed based on stake?

I know of many but due to past NDA's I can't nor am I willing to divulge that either publicly or privately, sorry but trust me 100% they are out there and perfectly legal.

 

[Kroffe]

I know of many but due to past NDA's I can't nor am I willing to divulge that either publicly or privately, sorry but trust me 100% they are out there and perfectly legal.

Im guessing its not allowed to change max-wins etc, right?
Like they cant remove the chance to hit a 100 000x bonus in doa2, just make it less likely.

Still sounds dodgy as hell.

 

[Kroffe]

There is few old scientific gaming slots that has 94% RTP on anything less than £2 stake and 96%+ on higher stake.

Like reelsoffun said we meant games that were changing the rtp-profile based on stake.
Example could be moving rtp from the bonus to the basegame on super-high stakes to decrease the risk for the casino.

Didnt think they were allowed to do that.
Would basically mean that slots that does that have a "sweet spot" stake-wise.

 

[mack341]

It seems dishonest/deceptive, say you play a game a lot at 20p, get a sense of it's potential, the chances of big wins and the speed which you can lose a balance, and then play it at £2 and what you experienced no longer applies.

It could get players into trouble and end up chasing if they're none the wiser, the ukgc constantly opine how much they're looking out for fairness and responsible gambling and yet green light this kind of 'stake = different gameplay' deception within slots. [gameplay as in the odds, variance/volatility]

If the slot makers and casinos have nothing to hide and not seeking to benefit at the players expense then just declare whether the slot's gameplay/odds vary according to stake.

It's a fair warning, don't expect this game to play the same as it does on 20p when you play £2.40 etc..

 

[Noekk]

Wich slots do you know that changes how the rtp is distributed based on stake?

I know of many but due to past NDA's I can't nor am I willing to divulge that either publicly or privately, sorry but trust me 100% they are out there and perfectly legal.

So by this message I assume you work or have worked within the industry. You see, I have played for over a decade and to me personally this information is a revelation of massive proportions and had I knew it, I would have not attempted many high roller sessions all of which failed to secure a decent win. It is legal yet it is hidden and giving the fact that I have never heard about it, it has to be secure information considering your reluctancy in naming the slots and more important, the providers engaging in this practice.

From your revelation I can construct a number of valuable questions in attempts of learning more about the deceptively hidden methods around how the slots really works but have you had the will to respond to anything on the matter I'm sure you would have already chimed in the Trancemonkey thread...
I'm yet to discover on any forum a willing employee from the depths of the industry ready to respond questions outside a template of narrative answers, that come across sophisticated washing the hands in public fora for the sake of clearing the many surrounding clouds. Under the benefit of a anonymous username that can be paired by a VPN for full confidence and still there is not a single one that is not there just for hissing ssssss.

 

[andym]

Im still wondering why trancemonkey didn’t participate in that topic here so far.
As a „fighter“ for the industry that should be exactly his topic to teach us once again how rdm everything is

 

[neon claws]

Im still wondering why trancemonkey didn’t participate in that topic here so far.
As a „fighter“ for the industry that should be exactly his topic to teach us once again how rdm everything is

Because he's sick of repeating himself?

 

[andym]

Didn’t see the „sweet spot“ theory in any of his posts so far

 

[Reelsoffun]

Didn’t see the „sweet spot“ theory in any of his posts so far

Actually trance did confirm that different profiles for different stakes was indeed allowed when I mentioned it in another thread, cant remember which one but was probably the original ask questions thread.

 

[Reelsoffun]

So by this message I assume you work or have worked within the industry. You see, I have played for over a decade and to me personally this information is a revelation of massive proportions and had I knew it, I would have not attempted many high roller sessions all of which failed to secure a decent win. It is legal yet it is hidden and giving the fact that I have never heard about it, it has to be secure information considering your reluctancy in naming the slots and more important, the providers engaging in this practice.

From your revelation I can construct a number of valuable questions in attempts of learning more about the deceptively hidden methods around how the slots really works but have you had the will to respond to anything on the matter I'm sure you would have already chimed in the Trancemonkey thread...
I'm yet to discover on any forum a willing employee from the depths of the industry ready to respond questions outside a template of narrative answers, that come across sophisticated washing the hands in public fora for the sake of clearing the many surrounding clouds. Under the benefit of a anonymous username that can be paired by a VPN for full confidence and still there is not a single one that is not there just for hissing ssssss.

Actually trance did confirm that different profiles for different stakes was indeed allowed when I mentioned it in another thread some time ago, I cant remember which one but was probably the original ask questions thread.

Also can you say in all honestly that you have never played a game on a stake then played it much higher stake and not noticed it seemed to change, eg bigger base hits, features paying less etc? If you haven't then its totally possible that you haven't played a game that does this, but as you seem to be a seasoned player I find that unlikely.

 

[Reelsoffun]

It seems dishonest/deceptive, say you play a game a lot at 20p, get a sense of it's potential, the chances of big wins and the speed which you can lose a balance, and then play it at £2 and what you experienced no longer applies.

It could get players into trouble and end up chasing if they're none the wiser, the ukgc constantly opine how much they're looking out for fairness and responsible gambling and yet green light this kind of 'stake = different gameplay' deception within slots. [gameplay as in the odds, variance/volatility]

If the slot makers and casinos have nothing to hide and not seeking to benefit at the players expense then just declare whether the slot's gameplay/odds vary according to stake.

It's a fair warning, don't expect this game to play the same as it does on 20p when you play £2.40 etc..

I agree to a point that it is a little deceptive, but its no different to using different reel sets randomly for the base game as slots also do. ( games that often tease a lot with 2 scatters generally use this method )

Its quite common knowledge that different sets are used in the free spins rounds and normally there is a mention of that in the relevant help/info but is not something ever mentioned in the game files.

As trance and I have said many times there is many ways to get the math to work on a slot by legally manipulating the game by using such methods, neither are any less fair as they are still down to a random RNG call.

Do I think the UKGC should force games to be more transparent?, yes I do. I could list a dozen things that the UKGC should do but not likely they will anytime soon.

 

[CasinoNinja]

One thing I wonder about if the slot behaves differently on different stake (but adhering do the same rtp), if it says "Win over 20k x your stake!" this must be true on all stakes offered then right?

Just a bit harder to trigger on higher stakes I would assume. Otherwise it's false advertising.

 

[Reelsoffun]

One thing I wonder about if the slot behaves differently on different stake (but adhering do the same rtp), if it says "Win over 20k x your stake!" this must be true on all stakes offered then right?

Just a bit harder to trigger on higher stakes I would assume. Otherwise it's false advertising.

Yes its very easy to keep the top pay in these cases to keep the "win x times your stake" claims

In fact due to the odds involved on the top win being often millions/ billions to 1 ( reactoonz springs to mind as that is crazy odds for the top pay ) that win is rarely messed with on any stake.