An invitation to the casino reps

[elscrabinda]

Dear All,

I have been on holiday for three weeks, and have only now seen this thread while catching up with the message boards.

One of the reasons I was given, for the 24hour period after withdrawel request for the Vegas VIP Lounge Group is as follows:

In the past many players requested a withdrawal from their accounts, and after a few hours would change their minds for various reasons. Often enough, by this time, the withdrawal had been processed leaving the reversal impossible to do.

This left the players frustrated, and of course, the operators flustered. It was then, after reviewing all data, and weighing up the pros and cons, that the Operators decided to change the withdrawal-waiting period to 24 hours.

The Vegas VIP Lounge Group does not encourage reverse withdrawals, but would gladly assist when asked to! We do not advertise or promote the service at all, but it is a safety net for the players and us. This period also allow us to get the proper I.D when needed to process the payments.

As the group, upon request from players, implemented this time-frame, we will be looking into this matter more closely again. We will request the players input regarding this to establish whether it is warranted to change our current status on the subject.

Again, I apologise for the delay in my response to you and please be aware that this is not my personal statement, but collectively from the groups operators.

Adri Sinclair

Hahahaha

I can just imagine the conversation

"I'm sorry sir, we have paid you quickly and efficiently"
"I don't want you to. I want you to drag your heels and keep my money for even longer"

The pros and cons- The pros for the player of not having reverse withdrawal feature is they get their money quicker. The pros for the casino of having a reverse withdrawal feature is the players have more chance of losing it. Guess which 'pro' won out at VegasVIP.

A safety net for players? Please, stop. you're killing me

Utter nonsense the lot of it. The only way it can be justified as said above is if there is also a reversal period for deposits. Now THAT is a safety net. THAT allows people to change their mind for various reasons. This time however the reasons are not to VegasVIP's advantage so they choose not to

 

[caruso]

Question, why isn't this required before even a single deposit is made?

Because nobody would ever play at a casino for which they had to supply documentation before playing. They'd go somewhere else where they could play more easily.

 

[RobWin]

It would be very simple for Microgaming just to add another button in the Withdrawal screen that simple says "Flush Cash-In"

..............Problem Solved !!!

 

[vickie40]

:axeman2:
I've spent the last 1/2 hour in live chat with a representative from Music Hall.
All I wanted was to get my account flushed. The representative was very nice and polite but the bottom line is no way on earth will they do it for me, have to wait 48 hours before they take it out of reverse withdrawal status.
However, according to the representative if you are a VIP player they will flush it. My question was how do I become a VIP player so I can have my account flushed. She wasn't really sure and I appreciated her honesty.

Does anyone here have VIP status and is it difficult to achieve? This is the only casino I play where they won't flush your account immediately. I just remembered this is the reason why I very rarely play with them...

Sorry for the rambling..

 

[chuchu59]

It would be very simple for Microgaming just to add another button in the Withdrawal screen that simple says "Flush Cash-In"

..............Problem Solved !!!

Solution spot on. Its the player's choice,so if implemented there shouldnt be any grumbles as stated in the post by Vegas VIP.

 

[Simmo!]

Solution spot on. Its the player's choice,so if implemented there shouldnt be any grumbles as stated in the post by Vegas VIP.

Agreed. Anyone got close enough ties (and passion with this issue) to assist in finding out if this is possible?

Simmo!

 

[Petunia]

** you guys have been busy!! hehe. looking at this, i would say "fair enough" to VVIP - and "agreed" to some of the others. i also think that we should FIRST find out if the casinos actually can 'just do this or that' or if it is a software provider thing? often we forget that the casinos also have limitations and can do nothing but 'request' certain functionalities from their providers - and in the the mean while carry the brunt from the players! oh well, just a thought. **

 

[Simmo!]

** you guys have been busy!! hehe. looking at this, i would say "fair enough" to VVIP - and "agreed" to some of the others. i also think that we should FIRST find out if the casinos actually can 'just do this or that' or if it is a software provider thing? often we forget that the casinos also have limitations and can do nothing but 'request' certain functionalities from their providers - and in the the mean while carry the brunt from the players! oh well, just a thought. **

It's a bit of both. The providers need to implement the technology for a player to be able to manually alter the Reverse period on a player-level within the s/ware. The casinos, on an individual basis, need to decide which players have access to it.

From following this idea up outside this thread, it's less clear-cut than it sounds due to players forging identities, using stolen cards or mis-playing bonuses. It gets quite in-depth, but suffice to say that it could be done for players deemed to be proper and righteous (so to speak!) were the software able to provide the facility.

 

[Vesuvio]

From following this idea up outside this thread, it's less clear-cut than it sounds due to players forging identities, using stolen cards or mis-playing bonuses.

I can't see why any of that should have a bearing on removing or bypassing the reverse withdrawal option.

The casinos will still follow all the usual checks on ID & whether wagering requirements have been met - they'll just be able to to do it a bit sooner instead of waiting around for a day (or a few days) hoping the player reverses their withdrawal and no longer has anything to withdraw.

This is just one of those things that's profitable for MG casinos and therefore very unlikely to be removed except under huge pressure from players - but who knows, we eventually persuaded them to correct the default strategy for the BJ autoplay, so we might get there in the end

 

[Vambo]

Royal Vegas are actively encouraging reversals with the chance to be entered in a crappy prize draw
This is a copy of part of an email I just received



Dear

Your withdrawal request on acc no has been received. If you reverse this Withdrawal Request right now, and you could win a share of $7,500

If you choose to reverse your withdrawal, and enjoy the benefits of continued play without the need to re-purchase, you will automatically be entered into our weekly $7,500 Lucky Draw!

Email support to request your reversal NOW - and be sure to enter this exclusive draw!

**Mail now: support@fortunelounge.com**


This is a very scummy thing to do

 

[Vesuvio]

Email support to request your reversal NOW - and be sure to enter this exclusive draw!

That's a new low, even for Fortune Lounge. I've had something similar at a few Playtech casinos, but never at a Microgaming one.

 

[Macgyver]

If you choose to reverse your withdrawal, and enjoy the benefits of continued play without the need to re-purchase, you will automatically be entered into our weekly $7,500 Lucky Draw!

Want to mess with them?

Reverse to get into the "Lucky Draw", then turn around and put in the same withdrawal all over again! Think how many times you could do this ...

It'd only be worth it, though, if you just put in the withdrawal since it starts the reversal period all over again.

P.S. I'm being very sarcastic right now.

 

[Simmo!]

Royal Vegas are actively encouraging reversals with the chance to be entered in a crappy prize draw
This is a copy of part of an email I just received



Dear

Your withdrawal request on acc no has been received. If you reverse this Withdrawal Request right now, and you could win a share of $7,500

If you choose to reverse your withdrawal, and enjoy the benefits of continued play without the need to re-purchase, you will automatically be entered into our weekly $7,500 Lucky Draw!

Email support to request your reversal NOW - and be sure to enter this exclusive draw!

**Mail now: support@fortunelounge.com**


This is a very scummy thing to do

Well if ever there was any doubt about why the Reverse is there, then this email removes that doubt altogether.

Not happy about that email at all

 

[Vambo]

This wont be popular because of the suspected rigged software but Lucky Chance will pay out in minutes if you win

I have deposited - played and withdrawen in the space of 15 mins and the cash has been in my netteler acc 2 mins later

This blows all other casino claims that withdrawals take several days (outwith their control) right out of the water

And for what its worth my take on Lucky Chance is that it is rigged to be eceptionaly streaky
You either win loads or you lose the lot in seconds

 

[Vambo]

I emailed fortunelounge to tell them I wasnt interested inreversing and this was their reply



Hi


Thank you for contacting the Casino Desk.

I have reviewed your casino account with regards to your revese reversal request.

According to our systems there is a withdrawal requested for $400 but there is no revese withdrawals reflecting on the system.






My email said

Re your offer to enter me in a draw if I requested a reverse withdrawal I am not interested please proccess my withdrawal asap


****wits

 

[The Dude]

Just got back from the GIGSE and I'm happy to say that most of the MG operators that I spoke with said they would be happy to flush accounts at player's request. There is a possibility that something will be implemented in the software in the future - but for now, just ask.

Playtech is a different story. Since Playtech uses an ecash provider for most of their casinos, they can't change the 3-4 day wait. This is a policy dictated by the ecash company. Where you might find faster cash outs are through Playtech casinos that use other ecash companies besides the generic Playtech one.

RTG - same thing. As we know, it might be expedited by the operator.

And it looks as though the Phoenician and Nostalgia casinos will be implementing automatic Neteller withdrawals in the near future too

 

[elscrabinda]

It would be nice if a few more of them discussed it through this thread. So far we've had 32red (pains me to give them any more free advertising) and Vegas VIP's frankly laughable nonsense about players requesting this 'service' and it actually being a 'safety net'. At least their rep had the self respect to distance themselves from the garbage they were told to write by making sure it was clear this was the view of management not their own.

I notice that this thread is no longer a sticky. Surely this isn't an attempt for the embarassing reluctance for casinos to tackle problem gambling to disappear into obscurity?

 

[Vesuvio]

You forgot Fortune Lounge trying to encourage players to reverse their withdrawals... and then not deeming it necessary to apologise or defend themselves on this thread.

 

[The Dude]

It would be nice if a few more of them discussed it through this thread. So far we've had 32red (pains me to give them any more free advertising) and Vegas VIP's frankly laughable nonsense about players requesting this 'service' and it actually being a 'safety net'. At least their rep had the self respect to distance themselves from the garbage they were told to write by making sure it was clear this was the view of management not their own.

I notice that this thread is no longer a sticky. Surely this isn't an attempt for the embarassing reluctance for casinos to tackle problem gambling to disappear into obscurity?

Perhaps the reluctance is warranted. Casino operators are sometimes chastised for things some players do not fully understand. Believe it or not (you being a non-believer of sorts ), there are players who want a reverse withdrawal option. I for one prefer it - is that laughable?

Many players do not understand how rampant player fraud is, and that there are normally a number of companies involved with each casino - thus in each deposit and withdrawal there is a security concern. In many cases, it's not up to an operator on how fast a payout is processed. But there are some that can handle this sort of request.

The thread is not sticky anymore because I thought that it had hung up at the top long enough to get everyone's attention. It's still active, and I predict it'll be so for a while.

 

[fortunelounge]

You forgot Fortune Lounge trying to encourage players to reverse their withdrawals... and then not deeming it necessary to apologise or defend themselves on this thread.

Vesuvio: I cannot understand what we should apologize for.

Fortune Lounge casinos offer some of the most exciting, most diverse and richest online casino promotions. We try to reward our valued customers across the board and out-market our competitors. When someone gambles online, we want them to gamble with us. Players get incentives and rewards for joining, for purchasing credits and for playing. Cashing-in is just one more touch-point where we get to offer our customers something extra.

How did this promotion come about? We run frequent promotions where we give special benefits to players who purchase credits. Our customers asked us why should they get rewarded when they purchase but not when they decide to recredit their cash-ins. We listened to our customers, and have since given away significant prizes to a large number of them who like this promotion.

Fortune Lounge is a firm believer in responsible gambling. All our promotions are designed to give our valued customers the best online casino entertainment experience available. And we proudly stand by that.

VP Operations
Fortune Lounge

 

[Simmo!]

Vesuvio: I cannot understand what we should apologize for.

Fortune Lounge casinos offer some of the most exciting, most diverse and richest online casino promotions. We try to reward our valued customers across the board and out-market our competitors. When someone gambles online, we want them to gamble with us. Players get incentives and rewards for joining, for purchasing credits and for playing. Cashing-in is just one more touch-point where we get to offer our customers something extra.

How did this promotion come about? We run frequent promotions where we give special benefits to players who purchase credits. Our customers asked us why should they get rewarded when they purchase but not when they decide to recredit their cash-ins. We listened to our customers, and have since given away significant prizes to a large number of them who like this promotion.

Fortune Lounge is a firm believer in responsible gambling. All our promotions are designed to give our valued customers the best online casino entertainment experience available. And we proudly stand by that.

VP Operations
Fortune Lounge

I think if the player has the "option" of sitting in the Reverse Pending period, at their own discretion, then its perfectly fair to offer incentives. But where the delay is forced on them, I'm not so sure its particularly ethical.

On a purely personal note, it would annoy me enough not to go back. When i cash out, i want it cashed out, not feel like the casino thinks I'm gullible. Some may see it as a "reward". Others may see it for what we all know it is.

 

[chuchu59]

Just got back from the GIGSE and I'm happy to say that most of the MG operators that I spoke with said they would be happy to flush accounts at player's request. There is a possibility that something will be implemented in the software in the future - but for now, just ask.

Playtech is a different story. Since Playtech uses an ecash provider for most of their casinos, they can't change the 3-4 day wait. This is a policy dictated by the ecash company. Where you might find faster cash outs are through Playtech casinos that use other ecash companies besides the generic Playtech one.

RTG - same thing. As we know, it might be expedited by the operator.

And it looks as though the Phoenician and Nostalgia casinos will be implementing automatic Neteller withdrawals in the near future too

Playtech,I think most of the casinos take 3-4 days to pay you. However,some months ago,I cashed out at Mapau and asked the customer support how long they would take to process my cashin and they said 72 hours. However,I pointed out that their website stated it was only 24 hours. The rep thanked me and said as a token of gratitude,I would have my cashin processed immediately and it was right there in my neteller account the next day.

 

[fortunelounge]

I think if the player has the "option" of sitting in the Reverse Pending period, at their own discretion, then its perfectly fair to offer incentives. But where the delay is forced on them, I'm not so sure its particularly ethical.

On a purely personal note, it would annoy me enough not to go back. When i cash out, i want it cashed out, not feel like the casino thinks I'm gullible. Some may see it as a "reward". Others may see it for what we all know it is.

Simmo: Point taken, and it would be great if the option existed.

We have, also, never refused any player who requested for a cash-in to be flushed and will never do so until such an option exists.

VP Operations
Fortune Lounge

 

[elscrabinda]

Casinomeister says

I for one prefer it - is that laughable?

Not laughable at all. Please don't take this personally but it does not surprise me that you prefer it for the very same reason the casino operators prefer it.

Reversed withdrawals = bigger profit = bigger affiliate income

This isn't an attack, just a fact of life. You make money when players lose. Players lose more when they reverse their withdrawals

 

[Simmo!]

Casinomeister says


Not laughable at all. Please don't take this personally but it does not surprise me that you prefer it for the very same reason the casino operators prefer it.

Reversed withdrawals = bigger profit = bigger affiliate income

This isn't an attack, just a fact of life. You make money when players lose. Players lose more when they reverse their withdrawals

I think thats a tad harsh Elscabrinda. First up, as far as I am aware, most of CM's links aren't affiliate links. Secondly, there are some affiliates who would no doubt be like that. But there are also affiliates who provide value too. And every industry has its bad eggs.

There does seem to be a general concensus that affiliates are evil (muhahaha) but i think there are two distinct camps. One that's out for the money and just churns out the same old same old, and one that tries to provide something of genuine value. And lets be fair here, CM's forum does more than that for most of us.

And anyway, if you like and use something, most people would be happy to show some sort of appreciation - after all, it doesn't cost them anything...it costs the casinos I don't hide the fact I'm an affiliate - in fact my front page even points it out - but in case you hadn't spotted, I'm a mega-advocate of "optionalising" the Reverse feature by player. And I'm sure CM and quite a few others are not dissimilar in that respect.