Bogus Complaint AllSlots won't pay my $865 back to my moneybookers account!

rivalfan

banned user: fraudulent PAB claims
Joined
Sep 7, 2008
Location
europe
Thanks maxd, but i'll wait for another response from david and if he won't to resolve this issue, then i will do this certainly.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
I dont know if this is the same but you can definitely deposit into a closed credit card account. I cancelled all my credit cards with a certain bank but mistakely paid an outstanding balance to the wrong credit card account (also in my name). It was accepted without hesitation and later I had a knock on the door from debt collectors. The bank didnt even know that the positive balance covered the other account although I explained this to them in detail.

So is this the same as depositing to a closed ewallet account I wonder?

It can be down to the receiving bank as well. Some may take the position that it is more helpful to the customer to hold the money than to bounce it back. Where the bank has a branch network, this is certainly the case, but when we have entities that exist only on the internet, and are often hard to contact, the opposite applies. Click2Pay in particular are bordering on rogue, since they are making up rules that would be ILLEGAL were any normal bank try to operate in the same manner. Mainly, changing the rules such that customers are unable to get their funds out should they wish to discontinue using the service. They started this with US players, and pretended it was forced on them because UIGEA created difficulties. Now, they prove this was all a lie by implementing the same rules for EUROPEAN customers, where UIGEA is NOT a problem. The purpose of the rule seems to be to trap players in the gambling network run between Click2Pay and casinos, never being able to get money out of this closed system until they can work their way up to the threshold of $2,200 and can withdraw.

Neteller does not have the same problem. It is easier to withdraw, they CAN be contacted easily by phone, even if they can take a while to answer, and not necessarily get it right. Although Neteller now charge 5 to withdraw, you at least CAN, and are not comitted to gambling it all away.

The JF withdrawal system is by far the most complicated I have ever seen, with it's convoluted rules that even THEY don't appear to understand and operate correctly. They have a long explanation as to how withdrawals are processed when more than one deposit method is used. It is hard to understand, but it's wrong anyway, so don't bother - they actually use a different method for allocating withdrawals, and it can mean not really knowing where your funds will end up until you receive them.

I have spoken to their CS, who revealed that their systems are even more complicated than the long explanation given. They allocate back to different deposit methods over different timescales, and they also use this to determine not just the return of past deposits, but where WINNINGS are to end up. The method the PLAYER selects is not by any means a "choice", the JF system treats it as a method of LAST RESORT should their own formula be unable to determine where a balance of winnings should be sent.

JF cannot know that a particular registered deposit method has been closed to the player unless the player tells them. The onus is on the PLAYER to do this once they have closed an account that might still be registered on the system. JF shouod then deregister the account, and should then NOT send any funds back to it, as this could make them liable should they subsequently be lost in the banking system.
 

rivalfan

banned user: fraudulent PAB claims
Joined
Sep 7, 2008
Location
europe
They're all liars, because they said:

"He said he did not deposit through Click2Pay -but in actual fact he did, that was his last deposit method before the withdrawal"

I never said, that i haven't make a deposit with click2pay, i even said, that i make a deposit with them, but directly after that, my account was closed and that's why i've made a deposit directly after it with my moneybookers account!

So how can they write, that my last deposit was made with click2pay?

And they're also very ignorant!

"We on our side fullfilled "our part of the deal" -th emoney is still in his Click2Pay account and we can't do anything about it.. He should settle his account with Click2Pay before blaming us."

Very funny!

So i can only tell you all, never play at this rogue casino, thanks!
 

maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
Well, I warned you about continuing to post here while the PAB was in progress but since you've decided to do so we'll play it your way.

Can you tell us about your situation at Click2Pay? Are there reasons why they might not want to transfer the money back to AllSlots in order to have it re-routed to Moneybookers?

If, for instance, there was some trouble with your account at Click2Pay and _that_ was in fact the stumbling block here then it's hard to see what exactly AllSlots has done to deserve the slagging you've been giving it.
 

rivalfan

banned user: fraudulent PAB claims
Joined
Sep 7, 2008
Location
europe
Well, I warned you about continuing to post here while the PAB was in progress but since you've decided to do so we'll play it your way.
Sorry, but i was only angry, because i've lost now this money, at least some of them, because i can/will certainly now go to my bank and tell them, to transfer the money from click2pay back, so i can get at least my deposit from click2pay back, but my winnings and the moneybookers deposit (which was my last one!) is now definitive lost :(

You can certainly delete my last post, if it's not okay for you, to post it here, because i won't get any problems with you, but i've now only the feeling, that i can't do anything now, to get my winnings and moneybookers deposit back.

If they're fair enough, tehy would at least transfer my moneybookers deposit + winnings back to my moneybookers, but they decided to transfer all back to click2pay and this is really not fair for me :(

I've contacted click2pay, why they've closed my account without any reason directly after making my deposit, but they never gaved me any response :(
 

maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
But you haven't answered the question: why would Click2Pay not send the money back to AllSlots when AllSlots tried to reverse the deposit per your request?

As to deleting posts, not necessary. My point was that by hitting the boards with it you make it a public and not a private issue: it's a totally different ballgame.
 

rivalfan

banned user: fraudulent PAB claims
Joined
Sep 7, 2008
Location
europe
why would Click2Pay not send the money back to AllSlots when AllSlots tried to reverse the deposit per your request?
That's really a very good question and that#s why i think, they're also rogued and that's why i must tell my bank, that they should take back my money from them asap!
The same question is, why did they clos my account directly 1 minute, after i've made my deposit on AllSlots, although i've never used a credit card, or anything else.
I used only my bank account for deposit on them.
 

maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
That's really a very good question ....

Indeed it is because if you ask me that's the real issue here.

As I see it AllSlots was _not_ in the wrong sending your $$ to Click2Pay since that was the last transactor you used and they're pretty clear that that's who'll they'll go to when you request the withdrawal.

Since you had a problem with it going to C2P AllSlots respected your wishes and asked C2P to reverse the deposit. C2P refused ... which means two things: (1) the problem is C2P, and (2) the problem is _not_ AllSlots.

So, the question becomes "what is the problem at C2P?" If it turns out that the trouble there is due to something you've done or a situation of your making then ... well your whole issue becomes highly suspect, doesn't it?

Like I said, what's the problem at C2P? If you can tell us that, great! If not I'll have to dig it up myself. Needless to say, if you have any information on this now would be a good time to come forward with it.
 

rivalfan

banned user: fraudulent PAB claims
Joined
Sep 7, 2008
Location
europe
As I see it AllSlots was _not_ in the wrong sending your $$ to Click2Pay since that was the last transactor you used and they're pretty clear that that's who'll they'll go to when you request the withdrawal.

That's definitive not true, as i mentioned now surely 5 times before, my last deposit was made with moneybookers and not with click2pay.
So it's surely not alone my fault.

But if you don't trust me, here i give you a screenshot from my last deposits and there you can definitive see, that moneybookers was my last one and you can see this on the higher transaction number:
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
That's really a very good question and that#s why i think, they're also rogued and that's why i must tell my bank, that they should take back my money from them asap!
The same question is, why did they clos my account directly 1 minute, after i've made my deposit on AllSlots, although i've never used a credit card, or anything else.
I used only my bank account for deposit on them.

Did you inform AllSlots that your Click2Pay account had been CLOSED, or did you expect them to know this through telepathy?

AllSlots have made a mistake if indeed your latest deposit was through Moneybookers, but if they didn't know that your Click2Pay account was closed, they could not be aware of the consequences of making the mistake of paying back to it.


As far as I am concerned, Click2Pay are a rogue eWallet. They cannot be contacted easily, and when you DO manage to contact them, they will ignore you or take forever to deal with the issue.

Click2Pay seem to be claiming (from your other posts), that your Click2Pay account has found itself in debit. This is more likely to be a mistake by Click2Pay, in allowing a transaction to proceed when there was not enough funding to cover it. It may also be a problem with the banking system, with Click2Pay not getting funds through from your bank, and them thinking you had "pulled a stunt" so locked your account.
Your bank should hold records of whether they have received requests from Click2Pay, and have denied the transaction. They will also have records of transactions they sent through to Click2Pay. If the bank show no denied transactions, then Click2Pay's systems are at fault.

Your main fight is with Click2Pay, and this should be pursued separately.

AllSlots should now KNOW that you CANNOT be paid back through Click2Pay, and must ensure that this does not happen again unless you resolve the issue and decide to continue using them.
(I told Click2Pay to go **** themselves, even though I dragged a resolution and refund out of them - I now use Neteller)
As far as I am concerned, Click2Pay have become even WORSE than back then, and I am surprised they are still promoted, and even considered in higher esteem by Jackpot Factory than the other eWallets.

AllSlots will not receive these winnings back from you in further deposits, denying them the chance to win it back. You will also have no confidence that they will not do this again, as they do seem rather disorganised when it comes to internal communications.

You should now send a formal letter of complaint to Click2Pay, giving them, say, 14 days to respond. If they fail to do so, look to pursuing them through the regulators or even the courts (or with the help from your bank). Let them know this if they fail to respond, as often organisations will take such determination seriously, as they may hope that many complainants will give up after being ignored, and they get to keep the money for their profits without making a serious attempt to investigate the matter.
For $865, it is probably worth a couple of stamps and formal letters. The recourse you might have through the bank is to show them some evidence that Click2Pay are claiming the money was never received, which they seem to have implied to you, and your bank could then pursue this as funds "lost in the system", rather than a "chargeback" because you are in dispute with Click2Pay.

Max can only investigate whether AllSlots handled the situation in a professional manner, and have at least tried to get the funds back from Click2Pay. However, if you can prove that AllSlots were told by yourself that you cannot receive funds through Click2Pay due to the account having been closed, and then went ahead and paid this way, then they are liable for this mistake, and sorting out the consequences, as would any normal and properly regulated business.
 

rivalfan

banned user: fraudulent PAB claims
Joined
Sep 7, 2008
Location
europe
Did you inform AllSlots that your Click2Pay account had been CLOSED, or did you expect them to know this through telepathy?
Did i write chinese, or have you not read all my postings, because i've mentiond often enough, that i've told the live chat, that my click2pay account is closed!
 

maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
... here i give you a screenshot from my last deposits ....

Fair enough, I'll check that out with AllSlots to see what the timestamps on those transactions are.

In the meantime what is the problem at Click2Pay? Please respond directly to the question: is there some reason why Click2Pay would not reverse the deposit when asked to by AllSlots?

Oh, and one other thing: AllSlots reports that your Click2Pay account has been frozen, not closed. This is further indication of an ongoing problem between you and Click2Pay, which of course is beyond the scope of AllSlots responsibilities.
 

rivalfan

banned user: fraudulent PAB claims
Joined
Sep 7, 2008
Location
europe
Fair enough, I'll check that out with AllSlots to see what the timestamps on those transactions are.

In the meantime what is the problem at Click2Pay? Please respond directly to the question: is there some reason why Click2Pay would not reverse the deposit when asked to by AllSlots?

As i said before, i don't know which problem they have now with me and i also didn't get any answer from them, so now my only solution is, to charge back my deposit from my bank, although the winnings+moneybookersdeposit is lost.

Surely better than i had lost all of it, but i'll certainly never play tehre again and i've told the JP Group to close my account directly!

There are so much another MG casinos out there, so i have no problem with this decision.

Vinylweatherman described click2pay best, because all what he has written, was right and i can only warn another guys from this unserious e-wallet.
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
In the meantime what is the problem at Click2Pay?

You need to come clean now, Rivalfan, and answer the question. That is if you cherish your membership here.

1.6 - No "Libelous" Posts. Do not make posts that could be considered libelous, defamatory, or posting merely to cause harm to another's business. Opinions are expected, but do not attack others with accusations of criminal activity unless this has been proven in a court of law.

2.3 - Ensure your complaint is free from offensive or abusive language, and that the complaint is tactful and truthful. Making false claims are grounds for banishment or drawn and quartering.

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/help/
 

rivalfan

banned user: fraudulent PAB claims
Joined
Sep 7, 2008
Location
europe
AllSlots reports that your Click2Pay account has been frozen, not closed. This is further indication of an ongoing problem between you and Click2Pay, which of course is beyond the scope of AllSlots responsibilities.

It's nice to hear, that they at least answer AllSlots, but not me!

I see only, that my account is locked and i don't know either there is a difference, between closed or locked.

I've learnd now from it and will never try a new (for me) e-wallet, because i had never any problems before with moneybookers, or neteller, although their cashout fees are now too high for me (€ 7.- per transaction)
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Did i write chinese, or have you not read all my postings, because i've mentiond often enough, that i've told the live chat, that my click2pay account is closed!

What I am getting at is this:-

Did you tell AllSlots BEFORE they paid out to Click2Pay, or only AFTER they did so.

While Click2Pay may well have a problem with your account, how can they expect you to resolve it if they ignore your efforts to communicate with them.

If you simply chargeback ALL your deposits to Click2Pay, you will be attempting to retrieve monies that are NOT subject to dispute, and this would ensure that you would be credit blacklisted, and this would place a "high risk player" flag against you, as Click2Pay would then try to recover those deposits from the other casinos they went to.

Before doing this, you need to FORCE Communication out of Click2Pay, and it seems Max has contacts that might enable him to "dig it out". Perhaps you could help by sending Max your Click2Pay details to see if he can find out what their position is, and this will help you resolve this against your own records from your bank, and from deposit records at casinos you have used Click2Pay with.

Once you have unravelled this mess, pay what is due to whom it is due, and then if you feel Click2Pay have made this worse by failing to communicate with you to resolve the issues, tell them to go **** themselves and use a different method. Moneybookers have higher fees, but have not yet p****d you off. Neteller have high fees, but are easier to contact than Moneybookers, and also offer FREE phone numbers (unlike Moneybookers), so it does not cost YOU when they take hours on the phone solving minor issues.

You MUST answer Max's questions fully, and honestly, preferrably by PM, as you might be discussing your own personal details. If you hold back on something, and Max later finds out (and he will), you will lose credibility, and Max will have to investigate YOU, as well as AllSlots.
 

rivalfan

banned user: fraudulent PAB claims
Joined
Sep 7, 2008
Location
europe
Did you tell AllSlots BEFORE they paid out to Click2Pay, or only AFTER they did so.

To be honest, it was, after i didn't get my money to my moneybookersaccount, so it was certainly too late for this information.

If you simply chargeback ALL your deposits to Click2Pay, you will be attempting to retrieve monies that are NOT subject to dispute, and this would ensure that you would be credit blacklisted, and this would place a "high risk player" flag against you, as Click2Pay would then try to recover those deposits from the other casinos they went to.

Nowe it's too late, because i've told my bank, to chargeback my last deposit, so it's fair enough, because i won't lost my money and i only can make a chargeback within a specially time.

Neteller have high fees, but are easier to contact than Moneybookers, and also offer FREE phone numbers (unlike Moneybookers), so it does not cost YOU when they take hours on the phone solving minor issues.

Ok, they have at least live chat, but i must never contact moneybookers, because i've never any problems with them and to make a deposit on neteller is really very heavy, because it's only possible with a credit card (i only have a prepaid) so i must first load up my credit card and then make a deposit on neteller, although than i can also pay with my credit card directly on any casino, because this is faster and doesn't costs me extra fees, like on neteller.

moneybookers is normally the fastest way always for me, because i can upload my account in realtime with my bank account, but i can't make a charge back (also like neteller) if i have any problems with them.
But as i mentioned before, i had never any problems with MB, so i should really only use this in the future on every casino.

IUt was probably my own error, because i've tested a for me new e-wallet and i didn't know very much about them and their homepage is also very simple, but i've only seen, that they have no fees (no matter if you deposit or withdraw) and this should normally always be a red flag, because nobody give you normally support without any money, like all another e-wallets.
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
Still waiting for your answer for the question: What is wrong with your Click2pay account?

Actually, I've lost my patience. You've been asked enough times by Max and I and you haven't given us the cordiality of a proper response. Like "my Click2pay account is locked because I owe them money". That would have been a good one. :p

And yes, you requested a cash out to your Click2Pay account (in-between the Click2Pay and Moneybookers' deposits), so yeah, the casino was correct in sending the funds to Click2pay just like you requested. It seems that Click2pay wants their money back from YOU. Why you decided to blame the casino for your major malfunction is beyond me.

So bye, go slag off elsewhere. Making false claims in this forum, wasting Max's time, and jerking everyone's chain is a one-way trip to Nowheresville.

Bye guy.
 

maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
To be honest, it was ....

It's not clear to me what you are being honest about but I have it from them that the sequence of events was:

1) Click2Pay transaction.

2) Your withdrawal request.

3) Moneybookers.

And no indication that you had notified AllSlots of anything until you complained to them that you hadn't wanted it to go to Click2Pay ... at which point they tried to reverse it for you and were told by C2P that that would not be possible due to your situation with them.

In other words you have no grounds whatsoever for your ongoing complaints against AllSlots. In fact you should be thanking them for trying to do exactly what it was you asked them to.

And last but not least your PAB has been and continues to be based on false information. Not only did you misrepresent AllSlots' actions on your behalf insofar as your withdrawal was concerned -- and falsely represented the case with your screenshots -- but I believe you know full well why you couldn't get your monies out of C2P once they had them: you are being intentionally obtuse about it for the sole reason that it would severely damage your claim.

The bottom line is that that's fraudulent behaviour insofar as our Pitch-A-Bitch process goes and for that reason I am discarding your PAB and banning you. Fraudsters lose at Casinomeister!

And as it happens the boss beat me to it: no worries, toast is toast.
 
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