New Megaways (pirate kingdom megaways) with Feature Buy on VS

[Sasukdcf]

Hi Guys

Little bit of advice please,
A friend of mine rang me today a bit bemused as he played this new game on Video Slots Today that had feature buys (which he used to love playing) and absolutely "did his nuts"
He called me to ask if I had played it, which I havent, however I have now had a look and it would appear he is right, it has a standard old fashioned feature buy facility on it which I thought was now banned by the UKGC.

I have told him this and echoed my concerns as I am sure I am right on this, and that being the case surely the game cannot have been tested and verified with the UKGC as they wouldnt have allowed it!!

For reference and as a gentle warning, having watched 20 mins plus of his videos of this slot, its so Gimped its untrue and I wouldnt touch it with a bargepole, Sadly its too late for him as he was £400 in the hole before he came to that comclusion.

thankfully he is a high ish roller so its within his "acceptable losses" and he has no wish to "chase it" but I feel that some answers should be given as to how it was possible for this game to be available considering the UKGC new rules and therefore should he have been allowed to play it and should the game be available at all if not UKGC compliant.

He has spoken to VS who are looking into it, however my opinion should be that he should have his losses returned as he shouldnt have been able to access the feature buy and looking how it played ( and i was a big feature buy fan and know the pitfalls of them, but this was another level of "gash" and I fail to see how the feature buy made it past any testing house as its absolutely awful.... he was feature buying for £18 i think on 20p stakes and I think he made a marginal profit twice and the rest lost...

any views would be of interest especially from anyone @Team.Videoslots you guys seem to have a pretty good reputation on here so hoping you can shed some light on this.

Cheers

 

[jfrdl]

High Roller friend is playing 20p stakes? These games are high variance. You might lose 40 in a row but then hit 4000X and be up.

 

[Reelsoffun]

High Roller friend is playing 20p stakes? These games are high variance. You might lose 40 in a row but then hit 4000X and be up.

The 20p feature buys are £26 each so yeah i would call that high rolling.

 

[dunover]

Hi Guys

Little bit of advice please,
A friend of mine rang me today a bit bemused as he played this new game on Video Slots Today that had feature buys (which he used to love playing) and absolutely "did his nuts"
He called me to ask if I had played it, which I havent, however I have now had a look and it would appear he is right, it has a standard old fashioned feature buy facility on it which I thought was now banned by the UKGC.

I have told him this and echoed my concerns as I am sure I am right on this, and that being the case surely the game cannot have been tested and verified with the UKGC as they wouldnt have allowed it!!

For reference and as a gentle warning, having watched 20 mins plus of his videos of this slot, its so Gimped its untrue and I wouldnt touch it with a bargepole, Sadly its too late for him as he was £400 in the hole before he came to that comclusion.

thankfully he is a high ish roller so its within his "acceptable losses" and he has no wish to "chase it" but I feel that some answers should be given as to how it was possible for this game to be available considering the UKGC new rules and therefore should he have been allowed to play it and should the game be available at all if not UKGC compliant.

He has spoken to VS who are looking into it, however my opinion should be that he should have his losses returned as he shouldnt have been able to access the feature buy and looking how it played ( and i was a big feature buy fan and know the pitfalls of them, but this was another level of "gash" and I fail to see how the feature buy made it past any testing house as its absolutely awful.... he was feature buying for £18 i think on 20p stakes and I think he made a marginal profit twice and the rest lost...

any views would be of interest especially from anyone @Team.Videoslots you guys seem to have a pretty good reputation on here so hoping you can shed some light on this.

Cheers

A common misunderstanding - the UKGC hasn't, as far as I am aware, banned bonus buys per se. It appears they have applied this to certain games only. If anyone knows better, or if I have got this wrong, let me know! I think you may have seen casinos or developers remove them from GBP slots in anticipation of a general ban. This was my last reading of the issue, if it indeed has now been applied to all games, I stand corrected. Cheers!

 

[Reelsoffun]

A common misunderstanding - the UKGC hasn't, as far as I am aware, banned bonus buys per se. It appears they have applied this to certain games only. If anyone knows better, or if I have got this wrong, let me know! I think you may have seen casinos or developers remove them from GBP slots in anticipation of a general ban. This was my last reading of the issue, if it indeed has now been applied to all games, I stand corrected. Cheers!

Well whatever it is, its been pulled at VS already for UK??

 

[dunover]

Yeah, in anticipation or because there is a general rule, I dunno.

 

[Sasukdcf]

Hmmm so a uk player plays it
Then contacts them and says he has been advised that they have been banned and within an hour they pull it....
sounds to me like they have accidentally breached something or they wouldn’t have pulled it surely!!!

 

[EkJR]

A common misunderstanding - the UKGC hasn't, as far as I am aware, banned bonus buys per se. It appears they have applied this to certain games only. If anyone knows better, or if I have got this wrong, let me know! I think you may have seen casinos or developers remove them from GBP slots in anticipation of a general ban. This was my last reading of the issue, if it indeed has now been applied to all games, I stand corrected. Cheers!

They have written to all UKGC licensced casinos asking them to remove all of these feature buys. Not sure if there is a deadline set but they have removed them all pretty much. There isn't a single game where there is still a feature buy that I can think of. They are also looking at those respin single reel games that Microgaming are spawning.

 

[Harry_BKK]

From what I see, the game is supplied by NYX, which is part of SG Digital now.

Initially, NYX offered a single API only for Pirate Kingdom Megaways which includes the Buy Free Spins option. They might have a second one by now but I have not seen it in the dev area.

The first game where I found officially two separate APIs for FB and non-FB is Pillars of Asgard from NextGen which will be released this month.

 

[Jono777]

ALL feature buys are banned for us in the UK

The GAME is allowed but the ability to pay 'x' to enter bonus directly is not.

If they can simply disable the buy button (as they have done with many already) then that is what they will do, if not then they'll have to pull the whole game from us.

 

[Reelsoffun]

ALL feature buys are banned for us in the UK

The GAME is allowed but the ability to pay 'x' to enter bonus directly is not.

So "IF" that is true, then the easiest solution is to remove game, which they have done and void all the feature buy bets the OP's friend made on said game before it was removed.

It's clearly looking like it was a mistake / error on VS's part that it was available to a UK player, albeit temporarily.

I'm not a fan of casinos being asked or forced to return losses, but in this case it seems totally the correct course of action as if those bets are banned it would have made them non compliant and illegal surely?

Still no comment on this? @Team.Videoslots

 

[goatwack]

It figures, that with VS having 10 Million slots on their books that they can't keep track of every single one.

I'd go with the thought that though Feature Buys are to be banned, there was a bedding-in period to give casinos some grace to get their act together.

Most went with the 'let's get this out of the way before we forget' option, whilst other casinos either haven't got round to it or are leaving it to the last possible minute.....

 

[EkJR]

So "IF" that is true, then the easiest solution is to remove game, which they have done and void all the feature buy bets the OP's friend made on said game before it was removed.

It's clearly looking like it was a mistake / error on VS's part that it was available to a UK player, albeit temporarily.

I'm not a fan of casinos being asked or forced to return losses, but in this case it seems totally the correct course of action as if those bets are banned it would have made them non compliant and illegal surely?

Still no comment on this? @Team.Videoslots

Yep, probably should get it back. Although at the same time, if he had won, would VS have recovered the winnings?

 

[lewisnadasurf]

It figures, that with VS having 10 Million slots on their books that they can't keep track of every single one.

I'd go with the thought that though Feature Buys are to be banned, there was a bedding-in period to give casinos some grace to get their act together.

Most went with the 'let's get this out of the way before we forget' option, whilst other casinos either haven't got round to it or are leaving it to the last possible minute.....

ignorance is no excuse of the law. VS should really be thorough of things like this. They’re not exactly small!

 

[Harry_BKK]

ignorance is no excuse of the law. VS should really be thorough of things like this. They’re not exactly small!

Well, the player ignored it just as much. He could have not used the FB and report it to VS instead, couldn't he?

I can see this story also going like: "mate, for some reason the FB was available and I used it. Had a lucky streak and I cashed out 1,000 quid."

Now, would the player return those winnings as the bets would be void? I think not

But he lost and sees now a good opportunity to get his money back.

Just because it is there, doesn't mean he can/should use it. There are many things in life where people simply adhere to the rules, yet in gambling, they all shift the blame to the casinos and operators when it serves the purpose.

FYI, there is no such thing like a "law" that banned FBs. Nobody has until now shown a letter/email/anything from the UKGC with a change in the LCCP that FBs are prohibited, nor with a date when the changes should be fully implemented.

IMO, the player has done this on purpose when he saw it was available with an "insurance thought" on his mind to ask for his money back should he lose.

 

[Sasukdcf]

I get your point, however I he didn’t know they were not allowed in the UK I told him that....

And the reason they have been stopped is to protect players from placing larger than normal bets, which in essence is what he has done... I agree to an extent if he had known but as the option shouldn’t have been available to him I would expect he would have played it for a bit on low stakes realised it was gash and moved on....
losses therefore would have been a lot lower,
And the fact remains it’s the casinos error..: therefore I think they should be culpable, and yes to be honest if he had won then again their error and they should swallow it...: the fact they pulled it so fast highlights that they are in the wrong.
They make enough following the rules so when they break them they should be fair and do the right thing

 

[Harry_BKK]

I get your point, however I he didn’t know they were not allowed in the UK I told him that....

And the reason they have been stopped is to protect players from placing larger than normal bets, which in essence is what he has done... I agree to an extent if he had known but as the option shouldn’t have been available to him I would expect he would have played it for a bit on low stakes realised it was gash and moved on....
losses therefore would have been a lot lower,
And the fact remains it’s the casinos error..: therefore I think they should be culpable, and yes to be honest if he had won then again their error and they should swallow it...: the fact they pulled it so fast highlights that they are in the wrong.
They make enough following the rules so when they break them they should be fair and do the right thing

Sorry, but it doesn't sound all kosher.

- UK player
- "Highroller" (as you stated)
- "did his nuts" (buying features as you stated)

Sounds to me like an experienced and frequent player. And surely, if he's so much into Feature Buys he must have heard about the supposed ban from the UKGC. It has been plastered in virtually every forum and on every affiliate site. Plus, he must have seen that some of his favourite games disappeared for a while and then returned with the FB blanked out or removed.

As I said, nobody has shown anything in writing from the UKGC that the FBs should be banned and by which date. So you simply cannot state it as a fact or that VS "broke a rule". We simply don't know. Post a copy of a letter/email or a link to the official part where this has been instructed by the UKGC as a new rule, then you might be able to have a case. Until then it is "wishful thinking" to have losses returned.

Sorry again, but I am not convinced of the entire story.

 

[Reelsoffun]

Surely the simplest way to look at it is, at the time it was played was it UKGC compliant or not? Until we know that hard to resolve really.

 

[Sasukdcf]

Simple question then

why did they pull the game so fast?
And as for finding something on the uk GC website

well that’s a joke in itself

find something on there about a lot of topics.
They are so far removed from reality it’s unreal

find on their website where it says they don’t require testing houses to test functionality of progressive jackpots ...:

which they don’t for reference

fact is Vs made a booboo simple as...

As for the player on question, not that it’s actually relevant but he didn’t k ow they had been stopped... But even if he did, it doesn’t change the fact that he shouldn’t have been able to access them... and arguably wouldn’t have lost that amount if he had been...:

On all my sites I ask for reversal of withdrawals to be switched off
As I tend to chase sometimes and I’m aware of that

on regal wins I withdrew a 1000 and played the rest

I lost and it offered me the option to reverse out of the blue

I did I lost and then I went back to them and said you shouldn’t have allowed that to happen...

They accepted it and refunded me... I could have not played it but I chose too

onus still landed with them ....

 

[Harry_BKK]

Simple question then

why did they pull the game so fast?
And as for finding something on the uk GC website

well that’s a joke in itself

find something on there about a lot of topics.
They are so far removed from reality it’s unreal

find on their website where it says they don’t require testing houses to test functionality of progressive jackpots ...:

which they don’t for reference

fact is Vs made a booboo simple as...

As for the player on question, not that it’s actually relevant but he didn’t k ow they had been stopped... But even if he did, it doesn’t change the fact that he shouldn’t have been able to access them... and arguably wouldn’t have lost that amount if he had been...:

On all my sites I ask for reversal of withdrawals to be switched off
As I tend to chase sometimes and I’m aware of that

on regal wins I withdrew a 1000 and played the rest

I lost and it offered me the option to reverse out of the blue

I did I lost and then I went back to them and said you shouldn’t have allowed that to happen...

They accepted it and refunded me... I could have not played it but I chose too

onus still landed with them ....

"fact is Vs made a booboo simple as..."

Yet again you are stating something as fact which you do not know as there is no written directive anywhere to be found from the UKGC. Hence, we don't know what the current status is. And whether VS was violating a UKGC regulation.

As to why they pulled it so fast....FYI, it is a simple click in a menu, that's all. Maybe there is indeed something from the UKGC, we are not privy to that information. But I would venture to say that the UKGC would have allowed for a implementation period as they usually do with technical changes.

I found everything I needed on the UKGC site when I searched for something, and that was not just once. Maybe not the best structured site but it is all there.

 

[Playford7]

High roller but wants £400 back, pretty small high roller...
imo the op is the player in question and done his balls and now wants it back.
Apologies if I’m wrong

 

[ESCJAMIE]

He was happy enough buying the Feature buys in the first place regardless if they should be banned or not, I can not see why they should get the money back if they lost it fairly and was happy enough playing on that game.

 

[Sasukdcf]

ok then flip side to the argument then, im sure we have all played some slots and lost but decided to have a crack another time to see if we can get luckier.....
well is it fair then that they have taken the ability for that away from the player...... if its not legislation maybe they should put it back on in case he wants another stab (i wouldnt reccomend it LOL )
but you see my point..... it would appear that he hit a game that wasnt correctly set for the UK market they have pulled it and he is stuck in limbo.....
anyways going around in circles here, personally i think VS will do the right thing as it was their error, in the grand scheme of things its not a large amount of money to them and would prove they are willing to be responsible for mistakes as they should be.
You dont agree but the simple fact is IF they didnt make the mistake the situation wouldnt have arisen.

end of.

ps

go on then find the bit about progressive JPs not being part of testing houses remit
and then explain how thats condusive to protecting the player!!

I know this as spent 4 years arguing a case about a progressive JP that was broken! it circled the whole of the GC and IBAS and the head of CS at Gala!!

 

[EkJR]

Well, the player ignored it just as much. He could have not used the FB and report it to VS instead, couldn't he?

I can see this story also going like: "mate, for some reason the FB was available and I used it. Had a lucky streak and I cashed out 1,000 quid."

Now, would the player return those winnings as the bets would be void? I think not

But he lost and sees now a good opportunity to get his money back.

Just because it is there, doesn't mean he can/should use it. There are many things in life where people simply adhere to the rules, yet in gambling, they all shift the blame to the casinos and operators when it serves the purpose.

FYI, there is no such thing like a "law" that banned FBs. Nobody has until now shown a letter/email/anything from the UKGC with a change in the LCCP that FBs are prohibited, nor with a date when the changes should be fully implemented.

IMO, the player has done this on purpose when he saw it was available with an "insurance thought" on his mind to ask for his money back should he lose.

LCCP hasn't changed but will change. They wrote to every licensee and told them to remove them within 30 days(allegedly) and it's now been 2 months I think. Sounds like a mistake by someone at VS when having a list of allowed jurisdictions. Genuine error probably. Not sure where the player stands on this, it cant be called a 'regulatory breach' as it's not part of LCCP, although I'm sure the UKGC would be concerned by it.

 

[neilw]

I wonder if the OPs friend would have made that call to the OP if he had won a substantial sum on the Bonus round he purchased. Do you think he'd be asking for advice on how to give the money back after realising he shouldn't have be able to buy it.?

 

[colinsunderland]

How come anytime someone complains about videoslots, does everyone jump in to defend them? They have read the thread, why don't they just tell everyone what the actual position of bonus buys is in the UK?

 

[goatwack]

How come anytime someone complains about videoslots, does everyone jump in to defend them? They have read the thread, why don't they just tell everyone what the actual position of bonus buys is in the UK?

There's only 7 of them, give 'em a chance

 

[Playford7]

There's only 7 of them, give 'em a chance

Heard it was 8, and the eighth is super important

 

[goatwack]

Heard it was 8, and the eighth is super important

Almost. You're kind of right.

What actually happens, on special occasions when they're really overworked and can't face CM anymore, they all combine to form Megalon Godzilla Team VS as a sort of super-being

 

[Playford7]

Almost. You're kind of right.

What actually happens, on special occasions when they're really overworked and can't face CM anymore, they all combine to form Megalon Godzilla Team VS as a sort of super-being

Ahh again many thanks for clearing that up, I was wondering mate

 

[Harry_BKK]

How come anytime someone complains about videoslots, does everyone jump in to defend them? They have read the thread, why don't they just tell everyone what the actual position of bonus buys is in the UK?

Simply because this story doesn't sound 100% kosher.

A UK "highroller" who did "his nuts in" buying features never heard of the feature buys being removed. He, who apparently played these games so much, never realized when the games in question were removed and came back on without the FB. He never posed a question until this case happened. He calls the OP to talk about it. Yet miraculously he never ever heard of FBs being banned or removed.

He never contacts VS about the apparent mistake until after he talked to the OP, probably to agree on strategy on how best to proceed to get the money repaid.

The OP starts the thread and tries to make a case for the losses to be reimbursed because he knows that VS is active here. So extra pressure for VS in public while his friend is working the CS with some "sob story".

Who are they trying to kid or fool? Not me!

And I sure hope not VS either because you will open to floodgates where people use VPN after they logged into the VS account to load a feature buy-enabled game, take a video with a time stamp, lose - ask for money back, win - keep quiet and cash out quickly.

 

[colinsunderland]

Simply because this story doesn't sound 100% kosher.

A UK "highroller" who did "his nuts in" buying features never heard of the feature buys being removed. He, who apparently played these games so much, never realized when the games in question were removed and came back on without the FB. He never posed a question until this case happened. He calls the OP to talk about it. Yet miraculously he never ever heard of FBs being banned or removed.

He never contacts VS about the apparent mistake until after he talked to the OP, probably to agree on strategy on how best to proceed to get the money repaid.

The OP starts the thread and tries to make a case for the losses to be reimbursed because he knows that VS is active here. So extra pressure for VS in public while his friend is working the CS with some "sob story".

Who are they trying to kid or fool? Not me!

And I sure hope not VS either because you will open to floodgates where people use VPN after they logged into the VS account to load a feature buy-enabled game, take a video with a time stamp, lose - ask for money back, win - keep quiet and cash out quickly.

I don't believe it either, but it happens in every single thread, people blindly defend them not having a clue if they are right or wrong, and the fact remains, Videoslots haven't commented.
I would hope any casino who see's a login or gameplay from an IP from a different country to normal would have security measures in place to prevent that happening!

 

[Matti]

I don't believe it either, but it happens in every single thread, people blindly defend them not having a clue if they are right or wrong, and the fact remains, Videoslots haven't commented.
I would hope any casino who see's a login or gameplay from an IP from a different country to normal would have security measures in place to prevent that happening!

If this is a legal issue you can't expect a quick answer.

 

[colinsunderland]

If this is a legal issue you can't expect a quick answer.

Why would you think it's a legal issue?

 

[Matti]

Why would you think it's a legal issue?

I said "if this is". Not that it is.

 

[Sasukdcf]

just think i should clarify something here......
If the person in question knew, I would have said he knew!! as in my opinion, it would still have been a mistake by VS and they should still be culpable..... but he didnt!!
he phoned me to ask if i had played it... etc etc etc.... but i would like to raise the point here that there appears to be a lack of information or knowledge as to whether they are actually banned or not with differing opinions on this thread alone.

so those accusing the story of not being "as is"
if a forum full of people that share information dont actually know the answer, how should a player thats not a member of the forum (or any forum) automatically know?
he is a keen player but doesnt get into the wheres and whys of stuff.... the furthest he tends to go is chatting with me about stuff now and again, so I dont really think the accusations are fair, or in fact relevant to the point in question!!!

 

[thr0b]

If he didn’t know, why would he know to ask?

 

[mack341]

I think there has been some confusion around this bonus buy ban, probably because of the informal way UKGC went about it. I remember on the day or day after of it being announced on this forum, I was playing on ladbrokes and yes they'd removed extra chilli/white rabbit but not vikings unleashed, so I was still able to buy a few bonuses.

If I was your friend and felt strongly that I shouldn't have had the opportunity to bonus buy features weeks after ukgc requested their removal, I would first contact UKGC and ask their opinion, e.g. under UKGC guidance were VS permitted to offer the bonus buy several weeks later?

And then depending on the UKGC reply contact VS customer service/complaints dept and see what they say, if it was me I think I'd walk away as otherwise it is a bit of a loophole exploit, however if he'd won big might the casino had then said 'sorry there's been a technical mistake etc..' [iirc reelsoffun made this point yesterday]

I think possibly why UKGC did this in an informal way is because they will have to give an accompanying reason which doesn't then apply to other mechanics in games, so the wording will need to be precise. If their reason was 'because you can lose a lot very quickly' for instance, the same could be said for £50 single spins so it would look inconsistent not to outlaw those too. So there may need to be a specific reason why these bonus buys have been banned, once they formally add it to their rules. I suppose they could just say in their opinion it encourages irresponsible gambling and leave it general like that.