Can Microgaming software be tweaked?

[Arismac]

I ask this question on the presumption that no matter which casino I play Blackjack at I will playing at the same Microgaming server. If not please tell me.

I have been using a staking method that for several days moved the edge slightly in my favour. Then quite suddenly the game changed and the edge moved sharply back in the casinos favour. I was using four casinos at the time and the result was identical at all four. Specifically the rate of busts by the casino after the player stands, fell from about 50/50 to about 15/85 in the casinos favour.

Common sense tells me that this must have been done by Microgaming, or do they offer facilities to the casinos to beat the winning player? After all casinos are Microgaming customers not we punters, so of course they are going to look after the casinos first.

I was only betting in $1.00 - $20.00 wagers so they must be very sensitive to winners.

Looking forward to your comments, thanks, Mac

 

[KasinoKing]

I have been using a staking method that for several days moved the edge slightly in my favour.

It is pretty much impossible for anyone to verify whether MG "tweak" their games or not, but personally I think it is extraordinarily unlikely.
Even MORE unlikely is that you have a method that can change the house edge of a completely random game.

I have played Blackjack in real B&M casinos where the dealer shuffled the real cards with their real hands: sometimes winning seemed easy, other times it seemed impossible. That's just the nature of a random game.

As far as I know, MG operate from more than one server. Maybe a casino rep could chime in and confirm?

KK

 

[Mark_32Red (retired acct)]

Hi Guys,

MG sites do not operate on one server. It's also not possible for an operator to 'tweak' their games.

I believe what you have experienced is a 'bad run of luck' I'm afraid, nothing more exciting than that.

Mark

 

[Arismac]

Even MORE unlikely is that you have a method that can change the house edge of a completely random game.

Perhaps we can discuss "random" in another thread and on another day. But I very much doubt there is anything random, as in a "Fibonacci Chain", about the coding of any game at an online casino. I cut my teeth on Romulus in the late 1950s. In the meantime perhaps we should agree to differ on that point.

 

[Arismac]

Thanks Mark, but I am afraid the first lesson I learned in my trade, is that "luck" is not a mathematical equation and therefore can not exist in a solid state reality. Have fun with that one ...

In other words I am a life long disbeliever in the existence of a nebulous psychological state called "luck". I don't believe in "Supreme Beings" either, but I have no argument with those that do.

 

[MiltonW]

Hi Guys,
MG sites do not operate on one server. It's also not possible for an operator to 'tweak' their games.
I believe what you have experienced is a 'bad run of luck' I'm afraid, nothing more exciting than that.

How do you know how MG operates? I used to work in a similar operation (interactive voice/text response), all automated. I had made an error in the software and it handed out a rather big prize too much (atomic locking went wrong). You never know, to err is human... It could work the other way round.

 

[Mark_32Red (retired acct)]

How do you know how MG operates? I used to work in a similar operation (interactive voice/text response), all automated. I had made an error in the software and it handed out a rather big prize too much (atomic locking went wrong). You never know, to err is human... It could work the other way round.

Not sure I claimed to know how MG operates? I stated they don't use one server, I know this as even 32Red alone operates multiple gaming servers. I also stated that we can't manipulate the games, I know this as I have access to the (very limited) game settings that we have.

In other words I am a life long disbeliever in the existence of a nebulous psychological state called "luck".

I understand where you are coming from, but as someone who regularly places sports bets I have to blame something when my horse falls at the last fence or there is a 97 minute goal changing my winning accumulator into a loser. I also don't believe in Santa Claus but if he doesn't bring my presents this year I'll be bloody annoyed.

Mark

 

[MiltonW]

Not sure I claimed to know how MG operates? I stated they don't use one server, I know this as even 32Red alone operates multiple gaming servers. I also stated that we can't manipulate the games, I know this as I have access to the (very limited) game settings that we have.

I don't know if you understand servers. Even multiple front-end servers can be serviced by 1 back-end atomic thingy. (<NERD>An atomic lock is designed to enforce a mutual exclusion concurrency control policy</NERD>).
These things are difficult. I'm sure MG makes mistakes. And some may be in their favor...

 

[quber]

I ask this question on the presumption that no matter which casino I play Blackjack at I will playing at the same Microgaming server. If not please tell me.

I have been using a staking method that for several days moved the edge slightly in my favour. Then quite suddenly the game changed and the edge moved sharply back in the casinos favour. I was using four casinos at the time and the result was identical at all four. Specifically the rate of busts by the casino after the player stands, fell from about 50/50 to about 15/85 in the casinos favour.

Common sense tells me that this must have been done by Microgaming, or do they offer facilities to the casinos to beat the winning player? After all casinos are Microgaming customers not we punters, so of course they are going to look after the casinos first.

I was only betting in $1.00 - $20.00 wagers so they must be very sensitive to winners.

Looking forward to your comments, thanks, Mac

You don't believe RNG's can be random enough for a game of cards so you must believe that all the certificates issued by various authorities are bogus. What makes you think they are using Fibonacci? things have moved on since the 50's

You believe that you have a system that can increase your RTP but once Microgaming noticed they changed the cards you were getting to get the money back. WOW!!

You don't believe in luck! Oxford online dictionary defines it as 'Success or failure apparently brought by chance rather than through one’s own actions' so if someone plays blackjack and never takes a card over 10 hands yet still wins would you call that luck or skill?

 

[Arismac]

so you must believe that all the certificates issued by various authorities are bogus. What makes you think they are using Fibonacci? things have moved on since the 50's

I usually ignore people who tell me what I must believe, but that would not be polite as I invited comment, so I shall simply say "thank you for your response".

"things" (mathematics) have not changed, ever, only the method used in the application of mathematics has changed. The application of mathematics in the online casino can be manipulated to suit the manipulator, which is what I believe has happened here.

 

[Jono777]

Online table games (excluding Live Dealer) are just the same as online slots.

They have a 'built In' house edge and are designed over time to make money for the operators / casinos.

Swings as described by the OP are down to luck changes not a big red button however.

In 'live' BJ the house hedge is partly gained by the fact that players make their decisions before the dealer draws their cards (player can bust before dealer actually has to do anything!)

I dealt this game daily for 5 years and learnt it inside out, the hot/cold streaks for both players and dealers could turn at any point, so I imagine this would be the same with online casino versions of the game.

I choose not to play it online as I so much prefer to throw my cash at slots but have no doubts regarding its integrity and would happily sit and play all day in 'real life'

 

[Harry_BKK]

There is a simple answer here guys&girls:

- you trust the MG software - you play
- you don't trust the MG software - you don't play

Ranting about MG looking at your winnings and changing the cards is just hilarious. Through the whole network you have probably at times 10.000's players online at the same time and you think that MG has people there watching everybody to avoid big winners????

Your posts make you look like a sore loser. The software is designed to make money for the operator and hence, quite a few people will have to be losers.

 

[Rhyzz]

Another 'can they cheat' thread. No, Microgaming cannot 'cheat'. Let's be logical about this. Do you really believe that Microgaming would allow operators the ability to tweak the games to affect RTP? Blackjack, unless there are sidegames and you can amend the payout of those games, has a natural RTP built into it. This RTP comes from the fact the dealer only has 1 hand and there are a potential 6 hands on the player side of things. The other edge comes from the fact the player acts first and can bust, meaning the dealer can win by default as a result of your decision. There is no tweaking to be done.

When it comes to Slots, the reels and maths are hard coded. The only way they could cheat a player would be to publish a false RTP, but they can't possibly change the way a game plays. They're hosted on servers across the globe and to change 1 game would be an incredible amount of effort - just look at the recent retirements from IGT because they can't be bothered updating them to cater for UKGC regs.

Finally, do you really believe Microgaming have anything to gain from you placing your $10 bets? They're a £multi-million business generating tens of millions in profit each year. The guy who owns MG is horrifically wealthy and doesn't need to scam you out of $10 to put bread on his table. Furthermore if you understood anything about MG you'd know they invest a huge amount into their local economy (Isle of Man) and generally look after their own people very well.

Never worked for MG, not really a fan of their software but I respect the big businesses that have pioneered and built this industry into the regulated, fair and hugely enjoyable business that it is today.

 

[Steviedoo]

can casinos determine or set the rtp of a specific slot machine or poker or bjack machine that differs from the microgaming factory set? sorry if this has been asked before.

 

[Harry_BKK]

can casinos determine or set the rtp of a specific slot machine or poker or bjack machine that differs from the microgaming factory set? sorry if this has been asked before.

Simple answer: NO

 

[Jono777]

Simple answer: NO

On a side note Harry, well done for exceeding the 'BIG 300!'

Don't think I've ever seen a figure in 'top thanked' that high lol!

301 - reminds me of my darting days

 

[Steviedoo]

Simple answer: NO

at betat casino...all the factory rtp's are stated...some of them say n/a.

for example:
Bridesmaids
PLAY NOW
This 5 x 4 Reel, 40 line game includes stacked symbols, Wilds, Scatters, and the six leadi... Factory RTP: N/A




i assumed this is cuz the casino sets that particular rtp. or they do not want to divulge it or or or or....

 

[Harry_BKK]

at betat casino...all the factory rtp's are stated...some of them say n/a.

for example:
Bridesmaids
PLAY NOW
This 5 x 4 Reel, 40 line game includes stacked symbols, Wilds, Scatters, and the six leadi... Factory RTP: N/A

i assumed this is cuz the casino sets that particular rtp. or they do not want to divulge it or or or or....

Nope, MG will deliver all games with their original factory RTP, there is no way an operator can change it.

 

[dunover]

On a side note Harry, well done for exceeding the 'BIG 300!'

Don't think I've ever seen a figure in 'top thanked' that high lol!

301 - reminds me of my darting days

I have had at times over 500........ Think 540-odd was the most I can recall.

Back to the topic.

It all depends what little man they have adjusting the RTP button, what mood he's in and whether he has eaten or not.

 

[brianmon]

there wouldn't need to be any 'little men'. If there was anything going on, the servers would be more than capable 'evening-out' someone's rtp automatically.

Plus, if the rtp's were changeable, and I'm not saying they are, it would be information that only a very very select few at MGS are privy to.

It would also depend on what they would get out of it.

if MGS make their money from charging a casino a flat rate for the use of each game, or if they charge per spin. then they've nothing really to gain.
lower rpt = less spins per deposit = less income
flat rate = same income whatever the rtp

if, however they make their money from a percentage of the operators profits from each game, then they've everything to gain.

so it all depends on how it all works really

 

[vinylweatherman]

I don't know if you understand servers. Even multiple front-end servers can be serviced by 1 back-end atomic thingy. (<NERD>An atomic lock is designed to enforce a mutual exclusion concurrency control policy</NERD>).
These things are difficult. I'm sure MG makes mistakes. And some may be in their favor...

They do, and not always in their favour

The slot "The Dark Knight Rises" was released with a mistake in the players' favour, but it only lasted a week

It seems that on average they screw up in the players' favour once a year, and sometimes they release a game with an "emptier" MG don't even trust their own software, so both MG and operators collect gaming data so that they can be analysed for trends that shouldn't be happening, such as a game exhibiting a collective RTP over an extended number of samples that is too far away from the TRTP so that they can investigate further.

 

[Jono777]

They do, and not always in their favour

The slot "The Dark Knight Rises" was released with a mistake in the players' favour, but it only lasted a week

It seems that on average they screw up in the players' favour once a year, and sometimes they release a game with an "emptier" MG don't even trust their own software, so both MG and operators collect gaming data so that they can be analysed for trends that shouldn't be happening, such as a game exhibiting a collective RTP over an extended number of samples that is too far away from the TRTP so that they can investigate further.

Another one I missed out on

Let me guess, Building up of the FS and Multipliers during the 'fight's' on minimum stake and then drastically increasing bet size when a player 'felt' it was due to trigger? (ie: roughly between 30-35FS)

Hope I'm way off as I did play this a reasonable amount when first released.

Another observation regarding MG, the new Star Dust game allows the building up of the free spin meter and when it is one or two short of the trigger a player can increase bets and the meter will remain in the position it was. Surely this is 'exploitable' ??

 

[vinylweatherman]

Another one I missed out on

Let me guess, Building up of the FS and Multipliers during the 'fight's' on minimum stake and then drastically increasing bet size when a player 'felt' it was due to trigger? (ie: roughly between 30-35FS)

Hope I'm way off as I did play this a reasonable amount when first released.

Another observation regarding MG, the new Star Dust game allows the building up of the free spin meter and when it is one or two short of the trigger a player can increase bets and the meter will remain in the position it was. Surely this is 'exploitable' ??

Nope, spot on!!! One player had £20,000 confiscated after being accused of exploiting the bug due to the old "malfunction voids play" term. He probably overdid it and got noticed. Had he done £4000 at each of 5 casinos he would probably have gotten away with it.

Star Dust uses the bet amount that gained the crystals in determining the payout of each free spin, so assuming they have coded the game correctly, MG haven't made the same mistake a THIRD time

 

[mclee321]

Perhaps we can discuss "random" in another thread and on another day. But I very much doubt there is anything random, as in a "Fibonacci Chain", about the coding of any game at an online casino. I cut my teeth on Romulus in the late 1950s. In the meantime perhaps we should agree to differ on that point.

If mathematics is your calling, then logic is not. Why would any Casino (or particular game) exist if it didn't offer the house an edge. The only accepted rule is, if you play long enough you will lose. Overly verbose posts about your mystical past learning physics models changes nothing.

Once a RTP is set on a game, its incredibly rare for it to change (there are exceptions). I never heard of Microgaming doing it, and the Operators would not have access.

Apologies, but you come across as yet another chump that is convinced you can beat the system, then complain when the mathematics kick in.

 

[dunover]

Why don't you lot believe me??? I've seen the RTP button myself; the little man wanted privacy but allowed me this little snap:

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