Big fine for Videoslots & Casumo

[lockinlove]

The UKGC will end up strangling the business if they continue on this bare teeth and demand everything approach.

They seem to forget people just want to deposit and play. I have heard of alot of affiliate accounts being closed, casinos closing to the UK market because they are terrified of the UKGC and their fines.

Is the UKGC going overboard? Absolutely. Maybe not in regards to this case but everything else they sure are. Making casinos verify a player before they deposit is what will end up crushing casinos. Alot of casinos do not have 24 hour support. What happens if a player tries to deposit after hours like many of us do? Oh we cant deposit cause I need to verify myself? Well lets go find another casino. So casinos will start having to have 24 hour support and 24 hour verification which cause more over head on them. The bonuses wont be as attractive, players will get tired of it and around we go.

Im a Canadian so the UKGC does not apply to me yet I still have some casinos scared out of their wits still requesting UKGC guidelines from me. I just go elsewhere.

Also, nice to see videoslots be transparent about what went down. And the way they approached the fines is exactly how an A+ casino acts. So the owners etc prove to be an incredibly trustworthy company. Something Im sure their shareholders appreciate.

Casumo on the other hand I do question. I have found their brand to be a bit sneaky. I have had their support outright lie to me in order to entice me to deposit on multiple occasions.

 

[dunover]

Hi everyone,

*******

We would like to underline that, contrary to the impression given by some media, we were not fined but agreed to a settlement. The difference is that a settlement is not recorded as a sanction against the operator.

The trophy rewards were adjusted due to the tax increase in certain jurisdictions that will take place next year and is unrelated to this.

Best regards,
Team Videoslots.

With respect, in everyday terms that means:

Policeman - "Chopley, you smacked dunover in the teeth thus assaulting him and costing him 500 quid in dental fees"
Chopley "Yes."
Policeman - "dunover, what's your take on this?"
dunover - "The pain's gone but I'm 500 quid out of pocket!"
Policeman - "So if Chopley gives you 500 quid, and 50 quid for a beer, you'll not be wanting to go to court and testify?"
dunover - "s'pose not."
Policeman - "Got 550 quid on you Chopley?"
Chopley - "Yes" (slinging it across the table)
Policemen - "There you go dunover, sorted and it'll save us all some paperwork, a prosecution and Chopley a fine on top for assault!"
(everyone fucks-off their separate ways...)

There are precedents for this with govt. agencies, the IRS often do it with tax dodgers, pay us xxxx and we'll call it quits and forget the sanctions or prosecutions - first offence that is.

Perhaps VS can run a WWTBAM promo this weekend, soon get the £1m back....

 

[Steviedoo]

Anything about ukgc protecting players by forbidding reverse withdrawals....having mandatory locking funds mechanism and immediate flushing of withdrawal....having max bet mechanism in place to warn you you will be forfeiting bonus and winnings....where are those things?

 

[shadow123]

stop complaing, we have autoplay lose limits on every game now, isnt that more important?

 

[spiker1977]

Anything about ukgc protecting players by forbidding reverse withdrawals....having mandatory locking funds mechanism and immediate flushing of withdrawal....having max bet mechanism in place to warn you you will be forfeiting bonus and winnings....where are those things?

Agree, I lost a 2.5k € on slotmagic becouse of a joke off max bet 1€! My own foult that i did not read the T&C properly.
Dont deposit with skrill and take a bonus on that site.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Yes, I did and the offences considered were done between a year and 2 years ago in most examples.
Obviously these things take a long time to be actioned and discussed, as you'd expect with any government QANGO or agency.

So as far as I can tell we're not actually disagreeing about anything here. VS made a mistake, they admitted their mistake, have put measures in place to correct what was wrong, and have reached a financial agreement with the Commission to settle the matter.

I just don't buy into the idea that REGULATION = BAD that seems to gain traction in circumstances such as this. No doubt the UKGC aren't perfect in how they're going about things, but to an extent they're learning on the job and they've been presented with a hell of a wild west to try and tame, that is the unregulated online casino market.

Is there other stuff the UKGC should be looking at? Yes, for sure, and hopefully they'll get round to it in due course.

Does this episode erode my faith in Videoslots? No it doesn't. I deposited £200 there about half an hour ago and am playing there now. They're a good operation and I'm sure they'll continue to be so, but as with everything, there's always room for improvement.

 

[amourgirl]

Think this was the Christmas card sent to casinos from the UKGC this year....

 

[dunover]

So as far as I can tell we're not actually disagreeing about anything here. VS made a mistake, they admitted their mistake, have put measures in place to correct what was wrong, and have reached a financial agreement with the Commission to settle the matter.

I just don't buy into the idea that REGULATION = BAD that seems to gain traction in circumstances such as this. No doubt the UKGC aren't perfect in how they're going about things, but to an extent they're learning on the job and they've been presented with a hell of a wild west to try and tame, that is the unregulated online casino market.

Is there other stuff the UKGC should be looking at? Yes, for sure, and hopefully they'll get round to it in due course.

Does this episode erode my faith in Videoslots? No it doesn't. I deposited £200 there about half an hour ago and am playing there now. They're a good operation and I'm sure they'll continue to be so, but as with everything, there's always room for improvement.

To be fair, if you read the UKGC guidelines they aren't too specific in examples and thus it's easy to see why some casinos could make the odd error or misinterpretation. It's similar to the affiliate rules/advertising which came in earlier in the year - I dealt with tens of programmes and while generally the goal was the same it was clear some read the inferences and aims a bit differently to others. Some insisted no social media advertising altogether, some wouldn't allow (correctly) childish slots on UK-facing ads but some even went as far as forbidding me to even mention or type the names of some slots in my description of their software and examples of games, i.e. JatB.

It's this same lack of specificity which allowed the 32Red Easter RG scandal back in 2016.

 

[nikantw]

Anything about ukgc protecting players by forbidding reverse withdrawals....having mandatory locking funds mechanism and immediate flushing of withdrawal....having max bet mechanism in place to warn you you will be forfeiting bonus and winnings....where are those things?

Don't you know? Winning is bad for you and withdrawals will make you addicted!
Pretty much this is what one former head of GC suggested in my country. I am afraid this is a belief many others share.

 

[dealer wins]

More depressing reading, another industry getting destroyed by politicians! The UK is going down the toilet in so many ways its sad really. I actually hate my what this country is becoming.

 

[irish-ranger]

More depressing reading, another industry getting destroyed by politicians! The UK is going down the toilet in so many ways its sad really. I actually hate my what this country is becoming.

How do come to this conclusion?? Would you rather the UKGC didn't exist? and the likes of William hill were licensed in the banana republic then the thread £102k from a 40p spin would be retitled to £102k from a 40 spin but casino won't pay out..

The UKGC are not perfect but if it means I won't be screwed by a casino well so be it..

 

[nikantw]

How do come to this conclusion?? Would you rather the UKGC didn't exist? and the likes of William hill were licensed in the banana republic then the thread £102k from a 40p spin would be retitled to £102k from a 40 spin but casino won't pay out..

The UKGC are not perfect but if it means I won't be screwed by a casino well so be it..

Unfortunately it doesn't. For example, the payout limits for progressive jackpots. They have no problem if you win the MM of 18m (old one, currently at 10m) but the casino says in terms it will pay you in .... 150 years.

To make that more clear, look at this :

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

CMA had an investigation, unfair withdrawal limits were found, UKGC added new rules, the above rules.
And nothing about withdrawal limits in them. Limits like the ones that made Sportingbet rogue here (screenshot taken just now)

 

[theapple]

How do come to this conclusion?? Would you rather the UKGC didn't exist? and the likes of William hill were licensed in the banana republic then the thread £102k from a 40p spin would be retitled to £102k from a 40 spin but casino won't pay out..

The UKGC are not perfect but if it means I won't be screwed by a casino well so be it..

They most definitely arent perfect. But yes they are obviously doing more than other gambling regulators so its a step in right direction. I just feel they should focus on more trivial matters first. Stuff like cashouts being reversible for days or even a week, bonus rules that are only there to make players fall into a trap, and generally speaking more your regular Joe protection. For gods sake there are casinos with 8000 words worth of bonus terms.

To me it really looks like they are making example of casinos that are actually doing lots of good stuff (certainly much more than tons of other ukgc licensed casinos) and they are targeting casinos that they know are both big and are willing to comply with their demands. All that while we have casinos ran by random people and are worth $400 with absolutely no liquidity. And maximum cashout of $100 a month. Simply because they can.

Dont get me wrong, im not defending casinos in general. Heck, for years ive been ... preaching how there should be more rules for casinos to follow and if market was regulated like pretty much all other bigger markets are, we wouldnt have 100s of thousands of people filling complaints against casinos. As long as casinos are allowed to make calls because of their random Bonus Term nr. 4992.c that allows them to deem all cashouts null and void...

Stuff like playtech and betfair issues wouldnt have happened at the first place, if there were rules that actually protect your regular, daily players.

Im all for more rules, but you gotta make those rules extremely clear if you are allowed to threaten someone with millions worth of penalties, and if casinos get unclear rules it only makes it look like gambling regulations are doing it on purpose to be able to fine casinos because of their vague instructions.

 

[keegannye]

I mean after reading all this my view is that i highly doubt that VS were intentionally avoiding having money laundering systems in place. They may have one it may have needed updating, they may not have. Either way really this is what external audits etc are for, they have outside eyes showing businesses where they have a weak spot. Its the case in any business from farming, mining, education the list goes on. Sometimes having external eyes go through a business isnt a bad thing, it can bring up things that operators of businesses may have overlooked or procedures not put in place for whatever reason.
They are also the ones who ended up paying the least amount of money in the end. Finally they have passed so it seems on all other aspects that the Gambling Commission were looking at. Im sure they were looking at a nice long list of things. But to find only a small amount of errors is likely pretty good. If a company was operating at 100% then whats the need for them to be audited. But now they will fix the issue and then bam if thats all they have to fix then they would likely be one of the few running at 100% compliant.

just my view, but really i have no idea about the ins and outs of the Commission

@Team.Videoslots

 

[colinsunderland]

Unfortunately it doesn't. For example, the payout limits for progressive jackpots. They have no problem if you win the MM of 18m (old one, currently at 10m) but the casino says in terms it will pay you in .... 150 years.

To make that more clear, look at this :

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

CMA had an investigation, unfair withdrawal limits were found, UKGC added new rules, the above rules.
And nothing about withdrawal limits in them. Limits like the ones that made Sportingbet rogue here (screenshot taken just now)

View attachment 99267

Casinos aren't allowed to put withdrawal restrictions in place in the UK now, but most seem to have just ignored that, including Videoslots who still have the £2300 limit per day (mentioning them as this thread is mainly centered around them). Jumpman and Progress Play had to remove them recently and the statement makes it clear other casinos should do the same.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

The changes being made by these companies today are supported by the Gambling Commission, which expects firms across the sector to apply the same standards to make online gambling fairer for players. Firms that do not make any necessary changes to their terms may face regulatory action.

I do think casinos push the rules as far as they can, thinking any penalty/fine they get will have been covered by the extra income they get for a couple of years for ignoring them. I can't see any other reasons so many casinos ignore the regulations until they get caught.

 

[Team.Videoslots]

Hi @colinsunderland,

We do not have a limit of £2300 per day. We do, however, have a withdrawal limit of €30,000 per month as mentioned in our terms and conditions:


For winnings that are not categorized as progressive jackpots, the following applies:

• Account holders may only withdraw the maximum amount of € 30,000 per month, unless a larger amount has been agreed with Videoslots. Then the Account holder is paid an amount of € 30,000 per month until all winnings has been received.

Best regards,
Team Videoslots.

 

[colinsunderland]

Hi @colinsunderland,

We do not have a limit of £2300 per day. We do, however, have a withdrawal limit of €30,000 per month as mentioned in our terms and conditions:


For winnings that are not categorized as progressive jackpots, the following applies:

• Account holders may only withdraw the maximum amount of € 30,000 per month, unless a larger amount has been agreed with Videoslots. Then the Account holder is paid an amount of € 30,000 per month until all winnings has been received.

Best regards,
Team Videoslots.

Oh ok, so when I tried to withdraw £2400 a while back and customer support told me it was failing because the limit was £2300 a day they were wrong?



How come the withdrawal page states limits too?

The UKGC states you shouldn't have limits full stop.

 

[nikantw]

Casinos aren't allowed to put withdrawal restrictions in place in the UK now, but most seem to have just ignored that, including Videoslots who still have the £2300 limit per day (mentioning them as this thread is mainly centered around them). Jumpman and Progress Play had to remove them recently and the statement makes it clear other casinos should do the same.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

The changes being made by these companies today are supported by the Gambling Commission, which expects firms across the sector to apply the same standards to make online gambling fairer for players. Firms that do not make any necessary changes to their terms may face regulatory action.

I do think casinos push the rules as far as they can, thinking any penalty/fine they get will have been covered by the extra income they get for a couple of years for ignoring them. I can't see any other reasons so many casinos ignore the regulations until they get caught.

Nope, don't see it. Can't find anywhere UKGC saying "Casinos aren't allowed to have withdrawal limits."
Can you point to that exactly? Wording is important here. I only found "withdrawal limits too low" and "we can't tell business how to deal with liability".
Seems to me UKGC is trying to avoid saying that specifically, in other words "have limits but don't let them be too small."

 

[colinsunderland]

Nope, don't see it. Can't find anywhere UKGC saying "Casinos aren't allowed to have withdrawal limits."
Can you point to that exactly? Wording is important here. I only found "withdrawal limits too low" and "we can't tell business how to deal with liability".
Seems to me UKGC is trying to avoid saying that specifically, in other words "have limits but don't let them be too small."

The firms – Jumpman Gaming and Progress Play – have formally agreed to remove terms and conditions which stopped players getting hold of their own money in one go.

With growing numbers of people choosing to play games and gamble online, the Competition and Markets Authority (CMA) has been investigating the £4.9billion sector after finding that a number of firms use unfair practices and terms and conditions.

Until now, players using Jumpman Gaming and Progress Play could be made to withdraw their money in instalments over an extended period, which could lead some to gamble again where they might otherwise make a withdrawal.

I've seen the same in a proper document somewhere too but can't find it at the moment, doesn't help having my grandaughter jumping all over me

 

[Team.Videoslots]

Hi again @colinsunderland,

That is a limitation due to the withdrawal method but you could request multiple 2,300 GBP withdrawals to your card if you wanted. As you can see further down on your screenshot you can for example request a bank withdrawal or a Skrill withdrawal for 10,000 GBP directly.

Best regards,
Team Videoslots.

 

[colinsunderland]

Hi again @colinsunderland,

That is a limitation due to the withdrawal method but you could request multiple 2,300 GBP withdrawals to your card if you wanted. As you can see further down on your screenshot you can for example request a bank withdrawal or a Skrill withdrawal for 10,000 GBP directly.

Best regards,
Team Videoslots.

Thats not what customer support told me, if thats correct then my apologies, but I can 100% tell you customer support told me it was due to withdrawal limits and I could withdraw the rest the next day. Admittedly I didn't try a second withdrawal

 

[Team.Videoslots]

Hi again @colinsunderland,

If you send us an e-mail with your username to videoslotsteam@videoslots.com we can have a look at your account and the contact you've had with our support.

Best regards,
Team Videoslots.

 

[nikantw]

The firms – Jumpman Gaming and Progress Play – have formally agreed to remove terms and conditions which stopped players getting hold of their own money in one go.

With growing numbers of people choosing to play games and gamble online, the Competition and Markets Authority (CMA) has been investigating the £4.9billion sector after finding that a number of firms use unfair practices and terms and conditions.

Until now, players using Jumpman Gaming and Progress Play could be made to withdraw their money in instalments over an extended period, which could lead some to gamble again where they might otherwise make a withdrawal.

I've seen the same in a proper document somewhere too but can't find it at the moment, doesn't help having my grandaughter jumping all over me

"doesn't help having my grandaughter jumping all over me" lol


Yes to all that, it was the first thing Google said
And I was "great news". But then I tried to find that in the actuall licensing requirements or whatever it is called that was supposed to change from October 31 because of that CMA investigation.
I dont think it is there. Can't find it anyway. There are many good changes, but that particular one is left out.

 

[colinsunderland]

"doesn't help having my grandaughter jumping all over me" lol


Yes to all that, it was the first thing Google said
And I was "great news". But then I tried to find that in the actuall licensing requirements or whatever it is called that was supposed to change from October 31 because of that CMA investigation.
I dont think it is there. Can't find it anyway. There are many good changes, but that particular one is left out.

I'll have a look when I get a chance, I could be wrong, I did see it in some document somewhere, but may have been a proposal or something. I have read the 'unreasonable low' part too, but thats bull, because what is unreasonably low? For example, VS £30k a month, for most players thats not bad, and its unlikely most players will win more than that a month, but if you are a high roller and deposit £5k a day and play £100 spins, then I would think it was unreasonably low, as its only 20% of your monthy deposits. (Thats not having a go at VS, just used them as an example as they just posted their limits ) The UKGC should specify exactly what they mean rather than not giving figures. they could state casinos have to pay (for example) £30k a month, or 5 x total deposits for the previous month, whichever is higher.

 

[keegannye]

Oh ok, so when I tried to withdraw £2400 a while back and customer support told me it was failing because the limit was £2300 a day they were wrong?

View attachment 99284

How come the withdrawal page states limits too?

The UKGC states you shouldn't have limits full stop.

Ill just add, when i won 66k i had a monthly limit of $30,000 which i capped. But after talking to loyalty they were quite easily able to raise that for me. I just had to email a request. Though still i couldnt transfer more then 10k at a time or per transaction which i was fine with.. Sometimes all it takes is an email

or knowing the right ppl lol