jamiester
Dormant account
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2005
- Location
- Hampshire County, MA
Starting a new thread to convey what I have found about the Predator slot on the Aceclub, Planetluck, Starluck group. If we are to continue the discussion that is going on in the Hijacked GG thread, maybe we could work it in here.
What I have mapped out are the minimum possible sizes and sequences of each of the 5 reels on the Predator slot. I have mapped out the animated reels. I cannot confirm that the animated reels are indeed the virtual reels but in the relatively short tests I have done each position seems not to be weighted (except in cases where sequences of 3 symbols repeat, in which case they did occur roughly as often as their occurences within the overall sequence would dictate). I also could not confirm that the result of each reel is independant of the result of the other reels in a given spin. This means, that although it may be true that each position occurs with equal probability overall, the result of one reel might be dependant on the results of the other reels, making wins less (or more) common than in a situation where the reels landed independantly of each other.
When I presented this information to Aceclub, they first tried to ignore me. After close to a dozen emails they finally responded saying that they would not confirm or deny the accuracy of my information. When I pressed them a little further and asked for some elaboration (like: are the animated reels indeed the virtual reels) the tech support guy (Gavin Adams) actually became quite upset and said that they would answer NO questions about the function and stucture of their slots and that, in addition, I was not even allowed to ASK them any more questions in this vein (who is he to tell me what I can ask?) In any case I am starting to realize this a common response when trying to learn about the workings of an online casinos games, which is surprising given that state lotteries publish the overall odds and the exact probabilities of hitting on their scratch games and they don't seem to be losing any sales (even though those games pay out .55 to .75). I don't understand what online casinos think they are protecting.
Anyway, IF the animated reels are indeed the virtual reels, IF each reel position is determined independant of the other reel positions, IF I have determined the number of positions and relative frequencies of the symbols, then you should be able to use the below information to calculate the probability that each particular combo will occur and ultimately the expected payout from the sum of the probabilities multiplied by the payout at each level. Note: there is also a bonus screen in predator, the mechanics of which are completely different. To get total payout, you would have to add the expected payout of the bonus screen to the payout calculated on the regular spins.
The symbols are: wild, lion, feature(scatter), gazelles, skull, gnu (grey hooved animal, I call it gnu because 'gnu' is short), Ace, King, Queen, Jack, 10 and 9. It is a five reel slot, reel #1 is the left most reel.
Reel #1(31 positions): 1 wild, 1 lion, 1 feature, 2 gazelles, 2 skulls, 2 gnus, 3 aces, 3 kings, 4 queens, 4 jacks, 4 10's, 4 9's
Reel #2 (33): 2,1,1,2,2,2,4,4,4,3,4,4
Reel #3 (33): 1,1,1,1,2,2,3,4,4,4,5,5
Reel #4 (47): 1,1,2,1,2,2,4,4,8,8,7,7
Reel #5 (48): 1,2,2,3,4,4,5,5,4,4,7,7
Possible exact sequences (left to right is top to bottom):
Reel #1: wild,k,10,skull,j,a,9,lion,q,10,a,9,gazelle,j,q,skull,k,10,feature,j,9,gnu,k,10, gazelle,q,a,j,gnu,9,q
Reel #2:
wild,j,a,q,skull,9,k,gnu,a,10,wild,j,q,gnu,9,k,lion,10,a,9,gazelle,10,q,skull,k,j,gazelle,9,a,10,feature,k,q
Reel #3:
wild,q,10,a,j,q,gnu,9,k,feature,j,10,skull,j,a,q,9,gnu,k,10,lion,9,a,j,skull,10,k,9,gazelle,q,10,k,9
Reel #4:
wild,9,k,10,q,gazelle,9,a,feature,j,q,9,a,10,j,feature,9,q,10,skull,q,9,a,10,j, lion,9,q,10,skull,j,k,9,gnu,j,a,10,j,q,k,j,q,gnu,j,k,10,q
Reel #5:
wild,j,9,gnu,q,10,skull,9,a,lion,j,10,feature,k,9,gnu,a,j,skull,a,10,gazelle,9,k,
skull,j,k,gnu,10,k,feature,9,a,lion,q,10,skull,a,9,gazelle,q,10,gnu,9,q,gazelle, k,10
It definately looks better if you write the symbols vertically but that would have made this post even longer
If correct, there are 76,160,304 (31X33X33X47X48) combinations of reel positions (since some sequences repeat, some combos would appear exactly the same). Since there is one wild on each reel, except for two wilds on reel #2, there is only 2 combinations that will yield 5 wilds (1X2X1X1X1) for odds of 1 in 38,080,152!!!. At 10,000X that is a return of .0002626 for that combo, just more than 1/40th of 1%. I might get more into the calculations later, but this is the raw data anyone would need to calculate it, if the above conditions are true.
What I have mapped out are the minimum possible sizes and sequences of each of the 5 reels on the Predator slot. I have mapped out the animated reels. I cannot confirm that the animated reels are indeed the virtual reels but in the relatively short tests I have done each position seems not to be weighted (except in cases where sequences of 3 symbols repeat, in which case they did occur roughly as often as their occurences within the overall sequence would dictate). I also could not confirm that the result of each reel is independant of the result of the other reels in a given spin. This means, that although it may be true that each position occurs with equal probability overall, the result of one reel might be dependant on the results of the other reels, making wins less (or more) common than in a situation where the reels landed independantly of each other.
When I presented this information to Aceclub, they first tried to ignore me. After close to a dozen emails they finally responded saying that they would not confirm or deny the accuracy of my information. When I pressed them a little further and asked for some elaboration (like: are the animated reels indeed the virtual reels) the tech support guy (Gavin Adams) actually became quite upset and said that they would answer NO questions about the function and stucture of their slots and that, in addition, I was not even allowed to ASK them any more questions in this vein (who is he to tell me what I can ask?) In any case I am starting to realize this a common response when trying to learn about the workings of an online casinos games, which is surprising given that state lotteries publish the overall odds and the exact probabilities of hitting on their scratch games and they don't seem to be losing any sales (even though those games pay out .55 to .75). I don't understand what online casinos think they are protecting.
Anyway, IF the animated reels are indeed the virtual reels, IF each reel position is determined independant of the other reel positions, IF I have determined the number of positions and relative frequencies of the symbols, then you should be able to use the below information to calculate the probability that each particular combo will occur and ultimately the expected payout from the sum of the probabilities multiplied by the payout at each level. Note: there is also a bonus screen in predator, the mechanics of which are completely different. To get total payout, you would have to add the expected payout of the bonus screen to the payout calculated on the regular spins.
The symbols are: wild, lion, feature(scatter), gazelles, skull, gnu (grey hooved animal, I call it gnu because 'gnu' is short), Ace, King, Queen, Jack, 10 and 9. It is a five reel slot, reel #1 is the left most reel.
Reel #1(31 positions): 1 wild, 1 lion, 1 feature, 2 gazelles, 2 skulls, 2 gnus, 3 aces, 3 kings, 4 queens, 4 jacks, 4 10's, 4 9's
Reel #2 (33): 2,1,1,2,2,2,4,4,4,3,4,4
Reel #3 (33): 1,1,1,1,2,2,3,4,4,4,5,5
Reel #4 (47): 1,1,2,1,2,2,4,4,8,8,7,7
Reel #5 (48): 1,2,2,3,4,4,5,5,4,4,7,7
Possible exact sequences (left to right is top to bottom):
Reel #1: wild,k,10,skull,j,a,9,lion,q,10,a,9,gazelle,j,q,skull,k,10,feature,j,9,gnu,k,10, gazelle,q,a,j,gnu,9,q
Reel #2:
wild,j,a,q,skull,9,k,gnu,a,10,wild,j,q,gnu,9,k,lion,10,a,9,gazelle,10,q,skull,k,j,gazelle,9,a,10,feature,k,q
Reel #3:
wild,q,10,a,j,q,gnu,9,k,feature,j,10,skull,j,a,q,9,gnu,k,10,lion,9,a,j,skull,10,k,9,gazelle,q,10,k,9
Reel #4:
wild,9,k,10,q,gazelle,9,a,feature,j,q,9,a,10,j,feature,9,q,10,skull,q,9,a,10,j, lion,9,q,10,skull,j,k,9,gnu,j,a,10,j,q,k,j,q,gnu,j,k,10,q
Reel #5:
wild,j,9,gnu,q,10,skull,9,a,lion,j,10,feature,k,9,gnu,a,j,skull,a,10,gazelle,9,k,
skull,j,k,gnu,10,k,feature,9,a,lion,q,10,skull,a,9,gazelle,q,10,gnu,9,q,gazelle, k,10
It definately looks better if you write the symbols vertically but that would have made this post even longer
If correct, there are 76,160,304 (31X33X33X47X48) combinations of reel positions (since some sequences repeat, some combos would appear exactly the same). Since there is one wild on each reel, except for two wilds on reel #2, there is only 2 combinations that will yield 5 wilds (1X2X1X1X1) for odds of 1 in 38,080,152!!!. At 10,000X that is a return of .0002626 for that combo, just more than 1/40th of 1%. I might get more into the calculations later, but this is the raw data anyone would need to calculate it, if the above conditions are true.
