Resolved 32Red vs Joseph3 - expensive mistake

[Beravek7]

If OP will file PAB- then this case will be taken under the tables. I see no ANY reason why
this specific case cannot be discussed in open. I don't understand why OP should follow the strict bureaucratic procedures of the PAb?
The guy had a conflict , he came to this forum
and told to the wide gambling community his story. And there was also a POLL
conducted at this forum which confirmed that the vast majority of the
forum users think that 32red casino must pay the guy what he won and pay it
in full. What else should we discuss here?
I call to 32red representatives here: you see the opinion of the Casinomeister
gambling community. And , as I see it, you have 3 options:

1) To ignore that opinion
2) To take the opinion into consideration and pay the OP in full
3) In case you have any additional and important details about this case- present it to the forum.

At this point it is clear that 32red chooses the option number 1 and simply ignores Casinomeister
community.

 

[jonbarrow94]

Just a quick admin note: To set the record straight, I do not ban people from this forum because they disagree with me. Patrick123 was banned because he had another account in the forum, which was banned last year for being a troll - which was connected to a number of other accounts in this forum - one of which was banned for submitting a fraudulant PAB against Redflush casino. It was proven beyand a shadow of a doubt that he had opened several accounts there.

Here are his accounts in this forum:

topoor
cowboypat
patrick123
bigjohn1971 (fraudster PAB)
reject726
3dfella

And of course, banning these accounts results in fan mail like this:


So this just drives one point home, there are snakes in the grass.

Back to the issue of the OP and 32Red. I'm giving the player until close of business today to submit his complaint here.

Lets just clear a few things up here about your libellous statements. I know some other users of your forum yes, however I am not the owner of the accounts as you have incorrectly stated. Nor am I one and the same person with them.

I have never had an account at RedFlush casino and for you to say that I have had several is libellous and slanderous. I left the forum last year (cowboypat) for disagreeing with you calling me a liar in a thread about Coral. You then decided to ban me although I had already left. I opened the second account patrick123 to give you a mouthful following your condescending post but frankly you just werent worth it.

This time however, youve gone too far. I have no and have never had any connection whatsover to BIGJOHN1971 nor did I EVER make any PAB to you concerning Red Flush Casino. I give you FULL permision to disclose this PAB here on the forum and prove me a liar. You cant and you wont.

As I said to you in my email, it is one thing having opposing views but you will not call me a fraudster and insinuate I am a criminal on a public arena.


Sure Ive opened a couple of forum accounts here and posted on emotive topics, big deal.

Theres only one snake here pal, and it isnt me.

 

[Casinomeister]

I thought that would get you riled up

Thanks for the new email address btw.

edited to add: if it's not your PAB, how can you give me permission to disclose it?

Nonetheless - even if the PAB didn't belong to you, you are still a forum ass-clown and a troll.

/derail

 

[maxd]

If OP will file PAB- then this case will be taken under the tables. I see no ANY reason why....

You've been around long enough to know full well "why". An active PAB is a statement by the PABer that we can investigate AND because of PAB confidentiality it allows us to ask the casino for information about that player that no one would otherwise have access to.

In other words it gives us the green light to investigate PABer claims, verify the facts and flush the BS down the toilet. As experienced CM members know it can be a very effective way to vent the hot air and get to the heart, and truth, of the matter .. most of the time.

It's not a perfect process but it's usually a damn sight better that a bunch of "he said she said" finger-pointing and puffery on the forums.

 

[catapultaudio]

Despite my earlier assertion this thread must not be silenced, I am beginning to feel that many are correct in stating everything which can be speculated, stated or discussed has now been posted. We might well carry on regardless for another 20 pages, but it most likely will not add anything new to the debate until we receive more information and evidence.

I made my points in the first few pages and since then decided just to read rather than repeat myself or get involved with the effort to convince others of the validity of my position .. I believe that the live chat conversation is the key piece of the puzzle missing, and the content of that would determine for me what would be a fair offer from 32red - regardless of the precise contents though, I insist the OP ought to receive a significant sum - if he does not, then the casino has taken his money on the basis that if he loses, thats fine, if he wins, we dont have to pay - and that is just not acceptable to me, whatever mistakes people made along the way.

Also, I have swapped a couple of PMs with the OP and he seems to have reservations about the PAB service, firstly that there may be a conflict of interest on the part of CM, and secondly, that should the PAB fail, might potentially have a negative effect on any later legal proceedings. Thats my interpretation by the way, not a direct quote, but obviously I pointed him to the records of the millions of dollars players have received as a result of CM intervention, and gave my own opinion which is that he has nothing to lose by giving the PAB a try, and I do not believe that a previous decision against him by a mediator should have any bearing on his likelehood of success should he go to court.

One more thing - if I were him, I would be determined to get my hands on the whole amount, I absolutely would not settle for half of it ... the 66 percent suggestion could be a starting point, but still not enough for me. An amount like this would make such an enormous difference to me, I would of had that PAB in weeks ago for sure. Do it Joseph!!

 

[Casinomeister]

Well, close of business ended about an hour ago. I'm done for the day. No PAB so I guess the OP has decided to take this elsewhere.

 

[spintee]

Despite my earlier assertion this thread must not be silenced, I am beginning to feel that many are correct in stating everything which can be speculated, stated or discussed has now been posted. We might well carry on regardless for another 20 pages, but it most likely will not add anything new to the debate until we receive more information and evidence.

I made my points in the first few pages and since then decided just to read rather than repeat myself or get involved with the effort to convince others of the validity of my position .. I believe that the live chat conversation is the key piece of the puzzle missing, and the content of that would determine for me what would be a fair offer from 32red - regardless of the precise contents though, I insist the OP ought to receive a significant sum - if he does not, then the casino has taken his money on the basis that if he loses, thats fine, if he wins, we dont have to pay - and that is just not acceptable to me, whatever mistakes people made along the way.

Also, I have swapped a couple of PMs with the OP and he seems to have reservations about the PAB service, firstly that there may be a conflict of interest on the part of CM, and secondly, that should the PAB fail, might potentially have a negative effect on any later legal proceedings. Thats my interpretation by the way, not a direct quote, but obviously I pointed him to the records of the millions of dollars players have received as a result of CM intervention, and gave my own opinion which is that he has nothing to lose by giving the PAB a try, and I do not believe that a previous decision against him by a mediator should have any bearing on his likelehood of success should he go to court.

One more thing - if I were him, I would be determined to get my hands on the whole amount, I absolutely would not settle for half of it ... the 66 percent suggestion could be a starting point, but still not enough for me. An amount like this would make such an enormous difference to me, I would of had that PAB in weeks ago for sure. Do it Joseph!!

Stated that myself, Either the op no what he done and tried it or he is bang on the money and is going threw the legal route, Yes PAB would of no dout sorted it out after Max read the convo, alot of money to see disapear but so is slamming a grand in and taking a bonus in first place

 

[nikantw]

If OP will file PAB- then this case will be taken under the tables. I see no ANY reason why
this specific case cannot be discussed in open.

It's called confidentiality. To get to the truth, loads of personal info are needed. Also inside security and operational info of the casino.
It's the only way to be sure for the facts, to get rid of any BS, to do the PAB.

I don't understand why OP should follow the strict bureaucratic procedures of the PAb?

To get paid!!!! And it is free! And it proves he is telling the truth!

The guy had a conflict , he came to this forum
and told to the wide gambling community his story.

No, he threatened with legal action to make sure we will hear only his side, and refused to provide details and verifiable info.

And there was also a POLL
conducted at this forum which confirmed that the vast majority of the
forum users think that 32red casino must pay the guy what he won and pay it
in full.

Poll is about a hypothetical unverified situation, as long as we don't have all the facts.

What else should we discuss here?

Nothing, unless we have the truth after a PAB or legal action.

I call to 32red representatives here: you see the opinion of the Casinomeister
gambling community.

Call the OP, because he threatened them with legal action, to make sure they will not be able to respond.
And the opinion of the CM community is that the OP should do the PAB.

 

[Jasminebed]

I doubt we will ever be privy to the outcome of this matter.

If it does get to the point of a legal claim being filed, that claim will be a matter of public record.

I hope the OP has the good grace after all the time and thought so many of us have put into discussing this issue to inform us of what route he has chosen to use to pursue his claim.

I truly can't see this case going to trial where the decision and settlement would be a matter of public record.

Non-disclosure and no admission of liability on the part of 32Red would be standard stuff.

To say that an agreement was reached is not usually a breach of such confidentiality agreements.

I think it is fair enough to say a successful negotiation is usually one that leaves both parties unsatisfied.


I see from this thread that I am not the only one that has ever been given too much by 32Red. Next time they make a mistake and I point it out, if they offer to let me use it, I will make sure I save that chat. 32Red livechat does not offer the opportunity to automatically have the chat sent to you.

Since mistakes can and do happen, perhaps 32Red's terms should make a provision on how such mistakes are handled when they stem from the casino's side rather than the player's.

 

[Jasminebed]

If this is a wholly made up story (ie no player where an extra bonus was awarded, faked emails from 32Red apologizing for the error, etc) I do hope that 32Red would be able to come and say something like "we show no such player issue in our data base"

It is course possible that Joseph wanted input from people more familiar with online casinos that his own lawyer however.

 

[spintee]

I doubt we will ever be privy to the outcome of this matter.

If it does get to the point of a legal claim being filed, that claim will be a matter of public record.

I hope the OP has the good grace after all the time and thought so many of us have put into discussing this issue to inform us of what route he has chosen to use to pursue his claim.

I truly can't see this case going to trial where the decision and settlement would be a matter of public record.

Non-disclosure and no admission of liability on the part of 32Red would be standard stuff.

To say that an agreement was reached is not usually a breach of such confidentiality agreements.

I think it is fair enough to say a successful negotiation is usually one that leaves both parties unsatisfied.


I see from this thread that I am not the only one that has ever been given too much by 32Red. Next time they make a mistake and I point it out, if they offer to let me use it, I will make sure I save that chat. 32Red livechat does not offer the opportunity to automatically have the chat sent to you.

Since mistakes can and do happen, perhaps 32Red's terms should make a provision on how such mistakes are handled when they stem from the casino's side rather than the player's.

I have certain not been given any extra by them and if I have I can say I nether knew about it, What I can say is I had an email from mrgreen the other day stating 100 free spins and another 100 if make a deposit, I used my spins and went back to email only to realise it was not 100 spins but 10 (ten) I soon alerted Andy, just incase there was some big errors, what if I did win? low no dout it would of been sorted,

Also its verry good idea to record or screen capture things now days as that alone will sort 99~% of problems out

 

[spintee]

If this is a wholly made up story (ie no player where an extra bonus was awarded, faked emails from 32Red apologizing for the error, etc) I do hope that 32Red would be able to come and say something like "we show no such player issue in our data base"

It is course possible that Joseph wanted input from people more familiar with online casinos that his own lawyer however.

No I bet its genuine, and surley the Meister has spoken in private to 32 (to make sure) also as soon as layers are mentioned than company's do not like to get involved, If was fake than the rep would of been on to let us no,
25k would get me a new set of wheels,

 

[Casinomeister]

Well, Joseph has submitted his PAB, and in the interest of those involved I'm closing this thread until it comes to a conclusion. At that time I will reopen the thread.

 

[Casinomeister]

Just an update. We are waiting for confirmation from the player that everything is in order. As soon as we do, the thread will be reopened.

 

[Casinomeister]

Ok - we have a conclusion to the issue. The player has been paid - which he has confirmed - £25k.

After discussing the issue with 32Red, the consensus was that there was human error involved and that the player should be paid minus the bonus amount given in error. (That amount will be donated to a charity TBD BTW). The reason that the casino changed its original stance is that there were other factors which were ultimately cleared up. Those factors are not free for me to discuss but those factors, in the eyes of the PAB service, were sufficient justification for the initial stance taken.

So there you have it.

 

[incrediblestuff]

Still hard to imagine the player did not notice the 1000,- extra, but he definitely is lucky that it was @ 32Red or i'd say his chances of actually getting paid anything but his deposit were slim to none.

Good to see it resolved anyway...

 

[Joseph3]

Still hard to imagine the player did not notice the 1000,- extra, but he definitely is lucky that it was @ 32Red or i'd say his chances of actually getting paid anything but his deposit were slim to none.

Good to see it resolved anyway...

I never said I didn't notice my what my balance was. It says nowhere in the terms 32Red sent me in the chat (

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

) about £1000 being the maximum bonus amount. I just assumed that was the bonus.

 

[KasinoKing]

Very glad to see 32Red have done what many of us consider to be the right thing.
I can't imagine many other casinos resolving this issue this way. Once again, 32Red showing that they are a class act.

KK

 

[Joseph3]

Ok - we have a conclusion to the issue. The player has been paid - which he has confirmed - £25k.

After discussing the issue with 32Red, the consensus was that there was human error involved and that the player should be paid minus the bonus amount given in error. (That amount will be donated to a charity TBD BTW). The reason that the casino changed its original stance is that there were other factors which were ultimately cleared up. Those factors are not free for me to discuss but those factors, in the eyes of the PAB service, were sufficient justification for the initial stance taken.

So there you have it.

Thanks for helping me getting this resolved. It's done us all a favour to not have to proceed with court action after 32Red told me they were definitely not paying me my winnings.

I am confused about these other factors, as nothing other than the issue discussed here has been mentioned to me. If I am understanding correctly, you are saying these 'factors' were sufficient enough for you to say I shouldn't be paid. But in the previous sentence you said they were cleared up.

 

[funnymunny]

Thanks for helping me getting this resolved. It's done us all a favour to not have to proceed with court action after 32Red told me they were definitely not paying me my winnings.

I am confused about these other factors, as nothing other than the issue discussed here has been mentioned to me. If I am understanding correctly, you are saying these 'factors' were sufficient enough for you to say I shouldn't be paid. But in the previous sentence you said they were cleared up.

If I were you, I'd have stopped after your first sentence. You got paid & you've expressed your thanks for the assistance you were given. Is there really any need to pursue anything else?

(Maybe if you're planning on continuing play @ 32Red, then you may have further things you need clarity on (to ensure any future deposits / bonuses / winnings are worry-free). IMO perhaps best done via PM though(?))

 

[3jokers]

Still hard to imagine the player did not notice the 1000,- extra, but he definitely is lucky that it was @ 32Red or i'd say his chances of actually getting paid anything but his deposit were slim to none.

Good to see it resolved anyway...

What planet are you from? The player had no idea the bonus was wrong, I mean you have to assume that the bonus amount the casino give you are correct one. Of course the player should be paid, as he was, there is no question what so ever.

 

[SpinUk]

Thanks for helping me getting this resolved. It's done us all a favour to not have to proceed with court action after 32Red told me they were definitely not paying me my winnings.

I am confused about these other factors, as nothing other than the issue discussed here has been mentioned to me. If I am understanding correctly, you are saying these 'factors' were sufficient enough for you to say I shouldn't be paid. But in the previous sentence you said they were cleared up.

Ever heard the phrase "magnanimous in victory"? I think it was right you were paid due to 32red's mistake but im in no doubt you were aware you got the extra money for the deposit.

Were 32red not going through a transitional licence period I think it would have a differant story, and as I said before 50/50 would have been a fairer split.

 

[petro]

The reason that the casino changed its original stance is that there were other factors which were ultimately cleared up.

My guess is that the other factors were the bad publicity this would cause for 32Red.

 

[incrediblestuff]

What planet are you from? The player had no idea the bonus was wrong, I mean you have to assume that the bonus amount the casino give you are correct one. Of course the player should be paid, as he was, there is no question what so ever.

What's up with the planet reference? you say that, and the player says that he had no idea, but i am, as i am sure many others like me, not convinced that he didn't..

Maybe you, as a webby (here i assume you are an affiliate, or at least a seasoned gambling veteran) could cross reference all the instances in your own recollection or database, where players got stiffed due to incorrect details, bonuses, hindsight ineligibility due whatever T&C, and whatnot, and maybe you can imagine how "assuming" the bonus is what it was supposed to be might be unwise in most cases..

Any normal seasoned player, would have double checked, unless specifically told the amount and w/r, and even then double checked and/or copypasted or screened the chat, especially in new Casinos.

Now i don't have the chat logs and thus i cannot be sure, but i would love to see the whole interaction, and then decide if i believe the player didn't realize there was 1000 too much. i am saying, as it stands now, i just think it highly unlikely, and as such i again say he was very lucky it was @ 32Red.

Is there anything unclear or wrong with my opinion?

 

[Casinomeister]

My guess is that the other factors were the bad publicity this would cause for 32Red.

So you are saying that 32Red caved because they were afraid of bad publicity? Bad guess. There was already plenty of support in this forum to give the player 50% or even less. Most casinos would have told the player to take a hike. Try doing this at one of the Playtechs in the Not Recommended section - you wouldn't have seen a dime.