UK Government - loot boxes

[ads2003uk]

So despite the UK government being provided with evidence and agreeing with this evidence, they have stated that there is a link between gambling and in game Loot boxes, BUT it will not be regulated.

BBC News - Government says video game loot boxes will not be regulated

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Im in disbelief that they've basically said yeah it's gambling but sod it let them waste their cash.

These loot boxes are harmful to many kids, as a number of reports have proven.

 

[bamberfishcake]

I don't share your disbelief.

It's a loot box, like a lucky dip. You can either buy one for the chosen game or not.

If there is a problem with your kid spending money then restrict their payment options.

Whats next? Source of wealth for a COD expansion pack?

 

[ads2003uk]

I don't have kids but many of my friends have told me how there kids have ended using thier parents cards to obtain these boxes.

But then its also not just kids though that play the games.

Government forces mobile providers and Google to enable spending controls to prevent over spend on purchase in Mobile phone games.
This is exactly the same.

 

[bamberfishcake]

Just cause some spotty uni bod says there is a link between this and problem gambling doesn't mean another bandwagon should be jumped on.

How much micromanaging of your money do you want?

If your kid is spending too much then here is a radical idea - stop them.

If they bitch and moan about not having the latest skin or newest map perhaps you should teach them about materialistic things and their actual value in real life.

Considering most shopping is done online, I see these kind of purchases like going to a shop and buying a board game - if you've got the money buy it, if not don't. Doesnt need regulation, needs parents to stop pussyfooting about with their kids

 

[dunover]

Loot Box Megaways up next.

 

[bamberfishcake]

Seriously though, all form of shopping is addictive to a degree, were bred for it, please.

 

[pinnit2014]

Just cause some spotty uni bod says there is a link between this and problem gambling doesn't mean another bandwagon should be jumped on.

How much micromanaging of your money do you want?

If your kid is spending too much then here is a radical idea - stop them.

If they bitch and moan about not having the latest skin or newest map perhaps you should teach them about materialistic things and their actual value in real life.

Considering most shopping is done online, I see these kind of purchases like going to a shop and buying a board game - if you've got the money buy it, if not don't. Doesnt need regulation, needs parents to stop pussyfooting about with their kids

To be fair to the OP i think it's the inconsistency in message.

Quite happy to have a PR release over fining 888.com and problem gamblers, but when there's a practice that hints at linkages between kids and gambling, it's a shrug of the shoulders.

 

[bamberfishcake]

To be fair to the OP i think it's the inconsistency in message.

Quite happy to have a PR release over fining 888.com and problem gamblers, but when there's a practice that hints at linkages between kids and gambling, it's a shrug of the shoulders.

No offence meant to the OP, Its just with whats going on in the world at the minute its a nothing story from the BBC, and an issue created, not real.

I fail to see any link between problem gambling and in-game loot boxes. It's a product, games are addictive, so is buying chocolate for some.

 

[aceking123]

Loot Box Megaways up next.

It's already arrived bonanza)

 

[Webzcas]

This has been going on for several years now and has been covered here on Casinomeister before:

Loot Boxes Should be Banned say MPs
Loot Boxes in the Firing Line Once Again
Belgian Regulator Decides That Loot Boxes Are Gambling - Casinomeister

And also on Casino Gazette:

House of Lords call for Regulation of 'Loot Boxes' Immediately
Loot Boxes Come in for Further Criticism
More Calls for Loot Boxes to be Classed as Gambling
60% of British Public Think Loot Boxes Should be Regulated as Gambling

Personally I believe they should be regulated as a gambling product.

 

[interlog]

No offence meant to the OP, Its just with whats going on in the world at the minute its a nothing story from the BBC, and an issue created, not real.

I fail to see any link between problem gambling and in-game loot boxes. It's a product, games are addictive, so is buying chocolate for some.

What you or I think about it doesn't matter though. The fact is that the regulator that was more than happy to take away quickspins and autoplay from us, recognises that there is a link between these loot boxes and gambling but then doesn't want to regulate it. Inconsistency at best.

 

[pinnit2014]

That's the thing, they love harping on about gambling related harms yet, when it comes to talking about possible 'gateways' to it, they are ambivalent at best. Pretty much means to me, at least, their MO, is predicated on what hits the media/gets more traction.

So lets care about the current addicts but not about possible future ones, via the social media means? Odd at best.

 

[Webzcas]

What you or I think about it doesn't matter though. The fact is that the regulator that was more than happy to take away quickspins and autoplay from us, recognises that there is a link between these loot boxes and gambling but then doesn't want to regulate it. Inconsistency at best.

Oh I agree with you, nothing there to not argue with. Loot boxes are much worse than autoplay and quickspins - which IMO are features which increase enjoyment.

Loot Boxes lead to spending a bucket load of money and that is their sole intention.

 

[pinnit2014]

If we're targeting certain types of games - banning autoplay/bonus buys etc then why haven't they touched Slingo? I know myself i've got carried away more on that than any bonus buy game....i think you're more likely to do your salary in that type of game as well....but again, consistency: they don't know what they're meant to be regulating.

 

[shadow123]

Got to agree about Slingo, evil personified.I have played ever one going and despite years of experience sometimes still get my balance
wiped out in seconds chasing .Even at 10p starting stake you can rack up a £50 loss without filling the board.
Doubt whether the UKGC have ever even seen or played one

 

[mack341]

from the bbc article:

Video game publishers have been told they must bring in "sufficient measures" to govern player safety, such as protecting vulnerable adults and fully disclosing the odds of getting certain items from loot boxes.

That is actually more specific useful info than slot players get, rtp figures based on billions of spins.

 

[pinnit2014]

from the bbc article:

Video game publishers have been told they must bring in "sufficient measures" to govern player safety, such as protecting vulnerable adults and fully disclosing the odds of getting certain items from loot boxes.

That is actually more specific useful info than slot players get, rtp figures based on billions of spins.

1 in million odds for a 500x in Bonanza might even test the most ardent of fans

 

[jasonuk]

It's a loot box, like a lucky dip. You can either buy one for the chosen game or not.

If there is a problem with your kid spending money then restrict their payment options.

This is assuming the parent is made aware in the first place - a number of publishers have gone out of their way to evade having "microtransactions" or "lootboxes" on their age rating, only to bring them in a couple of weeks later - too late to update the boxes, not mentioned in the launch reviews, but the evil still lurks.

At the tamer end of the spectrum I would concur - you finish purchasing all the consumables for a "modest" price (perhaps £100 or £150) and that's the end. While you can feel that you've paid too much, you can't get into too much trouble because there is a finite limit.

The nasty end is quite different though - you've got more chance of seeing two monopoly money streamers hitting the same game round of jammin jars than you have of acquiring some of these headline unique drops (potentially millions to one).
The games are designed to frustrate you in a way that you "need" lootboxes to progress, will use the same tried-and-tested mechanics that real casino games use, but with the added benefit (to them) of making the average lootbox reward so low to be worthless - e.g. in the case of Overwatch, 30 credits is 1/100th of a single legendary skin in the latest event. Plenty of stories of people spending £2k, £5k, £10k or more on lootboxes, and in some cases (particularly FIFA) still not getting the item they wanted!

With a number of countries already regulating it as gambling, game developers are starting to shy away from the mechanic anyway given the regulatory burden (similar to them quickly abandoning "it's the future, not a cash grab" NFTs that were clearly a cash grab), but it's not going away any time soon and while education is a big part of it, responsible gambling tools and safeguards are a necessary part of it also.

 

[bamberfishcake]

Shall we remove Kinder Eggs from the market because of the element of surprise? Its a perfectly reasonable comparison made by the regulator for me.

How about packs of playing cards? Sticker Albums with gold editions or similar?

Buy this packet of walkers for a chance of a red letter day.

Collect 20 packs of Pringles for a chance to win FA Cup boxes.

And so on....

When do salesmanship and the marketing of a product reach a point where it can be related to gambling harm? The crossovers must be a bored campaigners wet dream. They'll be regulating your bowel movements next, and recording water and paper usage.

 

[bamberfishcake]

How about the regulation of lucky dips at the fun fair?

I hear some hardcore gamblers have been linked to a lucky dip experience from travelling fairs in the 80s

 

[Kroffe]

Imo lootboxes & microtransactions ruins games.
Many are technically free to play, but its literally years of grinding the game every day to get to the same place as someone dropping a couple €100 on lootboxes.

You dont have to buy lootboxes, unless of course you want to be able to compete vs people that do.

Lootboxes: 0/10

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[jasonuk]

If we're targeting certain types of games - banning autoplay/bonus buys etc then why haven't they touched Slingo? I know myself i've got carried away more on that than any bonus buy game....i think you're more likely to do your salary in that type of game as well....but again, consistency: they don't know what they're meant to be regulating.

Slingo is a great example, because it shows the "intensity" issue in action. 10p a spin, get carried away in trying to get a full house and next thing you know it's 500x or 600x in...

The gaming sector are very eager to cause confusion by conflating lootboxes (medium-high cost, high volume, high frequency, high perceived prize value, lots of bells and whistles and personalised alerts) with things of very different intensity profiles like kinder eggs and trading cards (low-medium cost, low volume, low frequency, low perceived prize value, occasional adverts on TV / social media) because it allows them to avoid being regulated. It's clearly a fight they're happy to take on when they know the tap being turned off could cost them tens of billions per year...

 

[dunover]

Shall we remove Kinder Eggs from the market because of the element of surprise? Its a perfectly reasonable comparison made by the regulator for me.

How about packs of playing cards? Sticker Albums with gold editions or similar?

Buy this packet of walkers for a chance of a red letter day.

Collect 20 packs of Pringles for a chance to win FA Cup boxes.

And so on....

When do salesmanship and the marketing of a product reach a point where it can be related to gambling harm? The crossovers must be a bored campaigners wet dream. They'll be regulating your bowel movements next, and recording water and paper usage.

The difference is that when you get a ticket in a product like crisps it's an add-on to the existing value of the intrinsic product which doesnt vary - you still get your 25g of crisps to enjoy regardless, it's just an advertising feature. A Kinder Egg also gives a guaranteed amount of chocolate plus a convenient plastic container if you like inserting hidden drugs upon your person, and a guaranteed bit of plastic crap. A loot box is totally speculative in that you are buying something with no specific fixed value or guaranteed content which could be worth far less, or in rare cases, a far more than you pay. Therefore the whole basis for the sale is speculative thus it's effectively gambling.

In all the examples of physical products you give, you still get the minimum product with the caveat that the producer has spent a bit of cash on providing a possible prize for the consumer as an extra, as opposed to the possibility of substantial value being the whole basis for the product which encourages speculative purchase for one reason only.

Of course, you could argue the picture of a big porker sitting watching TV under a mountain of crisp packets, suffering from salt poisoning as they consume packet after packet of crisps while chasing the prize, or a child doing the same covered in layers of chocolate vomit by an overflowing plastics recycling bin full of eggs and toys but there's no evidence this occurs in the wild as people generally understand the odds against winning.

 

[Casinomeister]

Excuse my ignorance, but about 60% of us don't know what "Lootboxes" are. What are they?

 

[dionysus]

Excuse my ignorance, but about 60% of us don't know what "Lootboxes" are. What are they?

add-ons for online games mostly
For example, OUAT, I played online games (and yeah, they were fun, addictive and major time-sucks) , and you could purchase character benefits to increase your game/character performance.