Online gambling has become a disgrace for UK players

[snorky510238]

Now you see my point - I play a game I like and I know cannot be less than 96.00%

I cannot imagine going back to Twit Spin and my old favourites at 94% or less. The Rapist at 95% was painful enough bar a few big hits on it. Same as Book of Ra Deluxe, 95% and it gave me hiding after hiding. Wild Rockets was another I loved and that on 94% or less would be unimaginable sodomy; was bad enough at 96%. The day I cannot get 96% or more on my game(s) will be the day I pack it in altogether. I know by my RTP spin calculator the buggerings people in this thread will be getting if they haven't got access to 96% so won't argue with the sentiment in the topic, it's mathematically correct.

We are all singing from the same maths sheet here.

P.S. 94% versions make taking any kind of bonus so EV- that the very concept of a standard WR bonus is nigh on pointless.

The problem is Dazza, we have been playing Bonanza at 96% but doing thousands of spins and getting rtp’s of mid eighties. Mid eighties on a slot that USED to have (70 odd percent in the base, without checking)? That’s disgraceful.

Another thing of note. The max ways has been nerfed something chronic. I would say from memory, the last 50 didn’t produce a single decent hit. Basegame, full stop seems void of them.

If I had run at 85% at one or two Casinos, I could accept that, through gritted teeth but it’s possible.

The problem I have, as stated previously is that I have been playing at about 7 or 8 different Casinos and they are all playing the same. Way below expected rtp. Compare this to the first 5 years, when I was playing at around 25 Casinos and not a single one that I enquired about was running below 94%. That isn’t bad luck or coincidence or whatever you want to call it, that’s having an aubergine stuffed somewhere you don’t want it.

 

[OliverCooper]

Unfortunately I agree with you and this is happend not only with the casino but with the entire online-world.

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

Now you see my point - I play a game I like and I know cannot be less than 96.00%

I cannot imagine going back to Twit Spin and my old favourites at 94% or less. The Rapist at 95% was painful enough bar a few big hits on it. Same as Book of Ra Deluxe, 95% and it gave me hiding after hiding. Wild Rockets was another I loved and that on 94% or less would be unimaginable sodomy; was bad enough at 96%. The day I cannot get 96% or more on my game(s) will be the day I pack it in altogether. I know by my RTP spin calculator the buggerings people in this thread will be getting if they haven't got access to 96% so won't argue with the sentiment in the topic, it's mathematically correct.

We are all singing from the same maths sheet here.

P.S. 94% versions make taking any kind of bonus so EV- that the very concept of a standard WR bonus is nigh on pointless.

Since Apr 21 (Your very own documented series of vids ) you’ve made thousands from bonanza over a near 3 year period ffs

What u even mentioning 96% for ffs!!!!

 

[sufferinsilence]

Since Apr 21 (Your very own documented series of vids ) you’ve made thousands from bonanza over a near 3 year period ffs

What u even mentioning 96% for ffs!!!!

You just have to switch to £10 or £20 when the time is right. It's all about timing!

 

[slot_zombie]

Since Apr 21 (Your very own documented series of vids ) you’ve made thousands from bonanza over a near 3 year period ffs

What u even mentioning 96% for ffs!!!!

Pretty sure that's just Demo play for website promotion purposes. Witness the lack of the mandatory profit/loss and timer.

 

[bamberfishcake]

From what I have seen of regulation, it is an industry-creating illusion of care designed to massage and medicate rather than cure

The Gambling Industrial Complex is yet to be added to Wikipedia alongside Military, Medical, Prison, and the lesser-known Wedding, Animal and Baby categories.

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[Kroffe]

You just have to switch to £10 or £20 when the time is right. It's all about timing!

From the videos i have seen the 'right timing' is swapping to £10 after the first bonus no matter what the bonus pays.
Its a pretty complicated system.

 

[jasonuk]

It's a painful topic for sure:

• the pivot to scratchcard-based slots, with the increasingly absurd variance curves (which is particularly laughable when they have a "max win" cap on a scripted game round) and bonus-only designs meaning UK-based players are playing all-or-nothing paint drying simulators (essentially pre-gambles, but not called that for regulatory reasons),
• the collapse of both RTPs and bonuses - which amplifies the rate of losses,
• the proliferation of fraud - providers pushing imaginary wins, insane bonus buys and hyper-mega-super-ultra-turbo spins (or are just outright bent, either now or in a former life), the proliferation of twats with and without hats gambling millions in monopoly money (to the point they acquired their own streaming platform to peddle it), and even fraudulent operators in various jurisdictions (remember the UKGC slept while Football Index ran an alleged ponzi scheme, only reacting once it had collapsed and player funds were lost)
• the ever-increasing demands for documentation - identification is understandable, and source of funds if you are a high-roller, but six levels of bank transactions, friends bank accounts, blood type, naming rights to first born and more is completely ridiculous and increasingly being used as a stealth-reverse mechanic... remember when 32red publicly stated how much of an impact responsible gambling rules of the time was having on their bottom line, there's your answer.

I've dialled my play back in recent years, I'll consider 94% games if there's a (admittedly rare) promotion or bonus to offset the difference, but 88-92% can do one! Similarly, I tend to play older games - much like AWPs, scratchcard games should be played from the safety of demo mode.

I haven't made the jump to crypto although it is something I keep an eye on - but inevitably that would need to be a site that isn't furthering the fraud... because jumping from the UKGC who have imposed stricter regulations because of the proliferation of fake streamers, to a crypto site that funds said fake streamers, would be out of the frying pan and into the fire...

 

[jasonuk]

From the videos i have seen the 'right timing' is swapping to £10 after the first bonus no matter what the bonus pays.
Its a pretty complicated system.

For a moment I thought you were going to mention the Bonanza Buuuulllllllshit coefficient - the sterner the cry, the more likely it is to pay out...

 

[MahoneyKnows]

In my experience - online slots are typically anything but “random”… in my estimation after playing at a certain site for any amount of time your fate is predetermined the moment you login. Create an account that’s not affiliated to any place you’ve played before - you’re gonna think you’ve stuck gold. Go on tilt at a place you’ve already sunk thousands into - it’s just gonna slap you around and take your money as fast as you can push the button. Live slots that just hit the floor ALWAYS pay at a better clip than those that have been sitting there for a couple years… but after those first couple weeks of creating that fan base - the Pied Piper is revealed to be the SOB he was designed to be.

With all the tracking mechanisms we walk around with - the world becoming a colder, greedy place where the public’s best interests are an after thought and many sites, especially those abroad being bought out by the same umbrella company - coupled with the “regulator” being an ocean away there’s really nothing stopping them except the the lawmakers of the country in which you reside - and they are a trustworthy bunch, ya…..?
To add to the layer of f**kery - there’s all these sites which deploy the same damn games and even if you are playing on sites that have no affiliation - the servers that host the games have many ways of remembering how you had a great time yesterday which means it’s time to bring you back to reality on your next go at it.
MAG (Malta Gaming Authority) sites would be a fine example of this in my opinion.

 

[johnnymcc1966]

I've been playing a lot at Bet365 lately and with full RTPs it's a whole different world and more like the slots of old. Even with a small balance you get a surprising amount of gameplay,win or lose. I am enjoying it while it lasts as it's bound to end soon.

 

[justdoit]

 

[tazmart]

The original poster said it was disgusting, but I would go further... It's outright, blatant fraud!

Things are orders of magnitude worse now than when I first started playing slots 9 or so years ago, even 4 years ago it was so much better, but at the moment it's getting worse almost monthly.

These games are clearly not random (although TBH they never really have been genuinely random) and I was getting almost identical games one after another, and none of them even remotely fair.

The GC are a disgrace (take a look at the reviews on Trustpilot, not a single 4 or 5 star and nearly every review a one star complaint), and even the government have declared its 'not fit for purpose' and that's saying something!

I now play mostly at Goldwin Casino in Curacao, it's just like the old days with decent wins possible, much fairer games (along with some stinkers of course, but that always happened), and Autoplay (oh, how I've missed that!).

For me, UK casinos are the 'rogue' ones now, and don't even get me started about the criminal organisations that call themselves Games Developers, what a total disgrace.

 

[L&L-Jan]

Most wont see, hear, notice of feel this but let me sum up what happened in the Netherlands after the market regulated in October 2021:

Besides the Enhanced Due Dilligence verifications which are applicable in any regulated market:

- ban on bonus buys
- no bonuses / loyalty programs for young adults <24yrs
- Cashback got banned
- Advertising got banned: Untargetted advertising on TV, print, billboards etc july 2023, no sponsering of events, tv programs, etc from july 2024. No sportsteam sponsering from july 2025.
- Ban on using rol models/influencers
- Affiliates need to be able to proof that 5% or less of their site visitors are <24 years or younger. If not, they are not allowed to promote casinos.

Now there is a consultation for deposit limits:
- Young adults, max 350 per month.
- Adults, max 700 per month
- Adults who want a higher limit, need to proof they can afford this. As a result, the onboarding process wont take a minute or 2, but days.

Later stage they also want to apply one deposit limit across all operators per each player.

And this week a few motions in parlament got accepted:
- Full ban on advertising, this most likely includes affiliates
- Ban on high risk gambling types, this technically includes slots and videoslots.
- A mandatory credit check for each player

 

[slot_zombie]

So it will be almost impossible to operate legally in the Netherlands then - for gamblers and casinos.

Pretty sure we'll see similar measures in the UK before too long as well.

 

[Guntis]

Most wont see, hear, notice of feel this but let me sum up what happened in the Netherlands after the market regulated in October 2021:

Besides the Enhanced Due Dilligence verifications which are applicable in any regulated market:

- ban on bonus buys
- no bonuses / loyalty programs for young adults <24yrs
- Cashback got banned
- Advertising got banned: Untargetted advertising on TV, print, billboards etc july 2023, no sponsering of events, tv programs, etc from july 2024. No sportsteam sponsering from july 2025.
- Ban on using rol models/influencers
- Affiliates need to be able to proof that 5% or less of their site visitors are <24 years or younger. If not, they are not allowed to promote casinos.

Now there is a consultation for deposit limits:
- Young adults, max 350 per month.
- Adults, max 700 per month
- Adults who want a higher limit, need to proof they can afford this. As a result, the onboarding process wont take a minute or 2, but days.

Later stage they also want to apply one deposit limit across all operators per each player.

And this week a few motions in parlament got accepted:
- Full ban on advertising, this most likely includes affiliates
- Ban on high risk gambling types, this technically includes slots and videoslots.
- A mandatory credit check for each player

But they don't run lowered RTP slots in casinos like Holland Online or 777Casino.nl, no?

 

[L&L-Jan]

@Guntis yes, they started lowering them. Total taxes is like 32% there so inevitable

 

[satchnz]

I’m happy with the bonus buy ban thing as IMO bonus buys have ruined the base game of most recent slots. But…the ban has to be across all jurisdictions. Only this will force providers to develop slots with base games again, so players don’t face the abomination that we in the UK currently face with most of the potential of a game being in a bonus we cannot purchase.

 

[jasonuk]

- Advertising got banned: Untargetted advertising on TV, print, billboards etc july 2023, no sponsering of events, tv programs, etc from july 2024. No sportsteam sponsering from july 2025.

Perhaps not helped with the state operator (Holland Casino) advertising like crazy, advertising their physical venues online (which got shot down by the KSA) and other tricks to build their market share before others had a chance.

Later stage they also want to apply one deposit limit across all operators per each player.

I would hope that this gets shot down like it did in the UK, it's a significant breach of privacy. Given how many operators "can't identify" problem gamblers but can restrict or ban winning players in an instant... you know that'll be what they do with the data. The later point about a credit check (as the UK has moved towards) is probably where they will go with it.


Additionally, the KSA has been throwing fines around like confetti - often as retribution for prior disagreements where the operator was found to be operating legally (I recall Jan and I contributed to a thread on this last year), as well as the VideoSlots situation where the KSA used a VPN to sign up, then fined them significant amounts of money for it - even though it's a breach of T&Cs, and potentially a criminal offense.

 

[SlotGrinder]

96%+ rtp slots
100%+ deposit bonuses AND reload bonuses
Turbo spins
Autoplay

Ahhh and we still complained we didn't hit big often enough

Now the only reason you get any playtime is because the spins are so slow and even if you do manage to win you are dreading the withdrawal process wondering if you have to send a blood sample from your great great grandfather to prove you are who you say you are. Not to mention the endless reminders about how long you have been playing and how much you lost - yes yes shut up let me get this torture over with lol

 

[Valhalla]

“Minimum 2.5 seconds per spin” is a regulation that really pisses me off, especially since on games like Laser Fruit you get the wee pop up virtually every damned spin

The reels still spin though! So did I wait 2.5 seconds, did I do it properly, or do the reels only spin once that time has elapsed? And if so the why the fuck keep telling me that in the first place??? It’s set up with the sole intention of making the entire experience mundane and unenjoyable.

 

[Jono777]

Agreed, the 2.5 sec rule has also made the already unplayable "block" style games even more unplayable, examples include Reactoonz and Rise of Olympus.

 

[jasonuk]

That was one of the most ridiculous rulings - they obviously wanted to ban the pragmatic hyper-mega-super-turbo spins which were a second a spin (or faster), but if they'd said target 2.5s instead you wouldn't have had providers sticking spanners in their games to make them compliant (and clunky as hell).

I recall a lot of games introduced a server side delay as the simplest solution, and given how poorly games play I suspect a lot of them called it good at that - so request the spin, wait 2.5s then continue as if nothing happened. The irony was some of the worst affected were already compliant - but didn't want the headache of an edge case that took 2.4s and they get fined for it.

 

[Jono777]

Just thought of another example where GREAT games were wrecked with the introduction of this (needless) rule.

MG Viper 9 liners such as Thunderstruck, Spring Break, Adventure Palace, Agent Jane Blonde. Ran so smooth and great. fair games, they used the server delay to impose this rule and after managing 10 minutes (if that!) never played them again and I imagine I was not the only one.

Actually whilst we're here, it has jogged another memory, this rule and other games affected by it, lost me as a customer at my once beloved 32 Red completely.

 

[nisosbar]

You are 100% right there.

Something has definitely changed - and it's not just that they have lowered the RTPs.
You would think that to lower the RTP of a game, all they would have to do is give you 16 dead spins out of every 20, instead of 15, but leave everything else the same. But it ain't like that.
Take a game I've played a LOT - Moon Princess: Since the RTP cut it's like a completely different game. Sure I still get the "Princess bonuses" just as often as before - but now 95% of them pay nothing, compared to 90% before. And when I finally manage to get the free-spins, it's even worse! Just diabolical nearly every time - not even a half-decent win

If the UKGC really cared about players, they would insist that no games are below 96% TRPT. Lower RTPs just mean players lose more quickly and so re-deposit more often. Of course, we all know the casinos win in the end, even if their RTPs were 99% - but at 94% you rarely get a good run for your money these days.

KK

I remember having a discussion here on CM many years ago with Nifty, about RTP %'s.

As I recall, he seemed to be arguing that a couple percentages would not make a significant difference in player experience, so that it shouldn't matter to players whether the RTP is 99% or 93%. I would get so frustrated with his obstinance, but yeah, it makes a BIG difference in player experience.