Instilling gambling in the young… (UK)

[satchnz]

For background, I grew up in New Zealand and we moved to the UK in 2020 for a couple of years, but here we are still…

My better half and I decided to head out to Walton-on-the-Naze on the weekend for a walk along the coastline. It was so miserably windy that it wasn’t long before we found the shelter of Walton Pier. It’s a bit of a novelty for us as we have nothing like these entertainment piers in New Zealand.

Walking through the arcade we noticed the usual arcade games/ticket dispensing games. But the place was also filled with coin pusher games, and walls of slot type machines which dispensed tickets based on the outcome of spinning reels. All games were available for children to play.

I was astounded at how easily accessible gambling was for children at these venues. Nothing like conditioning children to, and normalising gambling so it’s a natural progression into gambling for money when they are of age. How is this possible? Why hasn’t the UKGC addressed this? I know they are as useful as an ashtray on a motorcycle, but even something like this should surely be in their sights?

(Mods - I’m not sure this is the most appropriate section to post this thread but I couldn’t find anywhere else that made sense - please feel free to move it to a more appropriate place)

 

[Jono777]

I may have the wrong end of the stick but I'm reasonably sure I've heard that some action has already been taken.

Supposedly all reel based and "tv screen" fruit machines, even the 10p play / £5 jackpot ones are to be removed altogether or at least placed in to the over 18's sections of the arcades.

When this is supposed to happen, I cannot recall but again pretty sure it is sometime early this year.

 

[satchnz]

I may have the wrong end of the stick but I'm reasonably sure I've heard that some action has already been taken.

Supposedly all reel based and "tv screen" fruit machines, even the 10p play / £5 jackpot ones are to be removed altogether or at least placed in to the over 18's sections of the arcades.

When this is supposed to happen, I cannot recall but again pretty sure it is sometime early this year.

Even still, it’s 2024 so how have they been a thing for so long?

 

[goatwack]

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with these types of entertainment, as for most, it's a trip down to the seaside to partake of some frivolous entertainment.

When passing by I'd get engrossed in the coin- pusher games, much like the 'horse racing' betting terminals and whatever else (rigged), encaptivated by the lights & sounds show on display.

I'd imagine many of the machines being mostly unchanged in the intervening years, and hardly the draw they once appeared.

I don't see the direct correlation, nor as these machines being a gateway towards a latter-life gambling uptake; if anything, younger people are more likely to be attracted by the rusty arcade machines, or anything digital-related (been a while since we've been to eg Margate, but it's as though time stood still in all honesty).

It's not really down to the UKGC to micro-manage seasonal coin- pusher machines and their like, because then we may as well prohibit the grabber machines too, given the 'risk' involved

 

[satchnz]

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with these types of entertainment, as for most, it's a trip down to the seaside to partake of some frivolous entertainment.

When passing by I'd get engrossed in the coin- pusher games, much like the 'horse racing' betting terminals and whatever else (rigged), encaptivated by the lights & sounds show on display.

I'd imagine many of the machines being mostly unchanged in the intervening years, and hardly the draw they once appeared.

I don't see the direct correlation, nor as these machines being a gateway towards a latter-life gambling uptake; if anything, younger people are more likely to be attracted by the rusty arcade machines, or anything digital-related (been a while since we've been to eg Margate, but it's as though time stood still in all honesty).

It's not really down to the UKGC to micro-manage seasonal coin- pusher machines and their like, because then we may as well prohibit the grabber machines too, given the 'risk' involved

Ok maybe not the coin pusher machines but what about the machines that look like mechanical slot machines, play like mechanical slot machines, but output tickets rather than coins?

 

[Jono777]

Yes, another factor here is exposure.

As mentioned above, seaside resorts are the main places where these machines are found and children exposed to them.

I would have thought the majority of what you may call "average families" manage a once a year trip to the seaside for a week or so, so with this in mind very little chance of any permanent or long term damage can be done.

Using myself as an example, once Mon & Dad told us we were off on our holidays, On my list was the thought of 2p pushers, video games and even 2p play fruit machines. I played them briefly most holidays but they were lower priority to other things we did and never did they ever take hold over our plans. Also upon return home from holidays, I was never once craving more or wishing the next holiday to come along.

Fingers can be pointed in so many directions but I think sensible parenting is much more the approach here then blaming the arcades or even the governing bodies.

 

[goatwack]

Ok maybe not the coin pusher machines but what about the machines that look like mechanical slot machines, play like mechanical slot machines, but output tickets rather than coins?

Kids aren't interested in slot machines, and even less interested in playing them for money. The tickets are likely more appealing based on the fact that they can be redeemed for silly prizes on the premises - it's not an elaborate ploy to desensitize them to gambling, it's 'of the moment'.

Of far greater appeal would be any number of licensed slot games accessible via their phones, and where any concept of gambling for money being bad is instantly disarmed. Younger people are drawn to video games, with slots trying to emulate that.

Further to that, a YouTuber had mentioned his channel's sponsor earlier, promising 100s of Table Games and Slots, but for 'virtual credits', a sure-fire, cynical and obvious ploy to get people to harmlessly 'gamble' with the push of a few buttons. Certainly something more dangerous and closer to home than putting 50p's worth of 2ps into a decrepit seaside fruit machine to win a lollipop

 

[satchnz]

It’s interesting to see how those who grew up with the ticket slot machine games in arcades have different views to those of us where this was never available and would never be allowed.

We are all different. I guess that’s what makes life so interesting! Ill remain a bit astonished while also respecting the views of others here .

 

[slot_zombie]

This thing, 2p Play, £1.50 Jackpot, at a local greasy spoon cafe, reeled me in to half a lifetime of gambling aged 13. It claimed 7 days'worth of hard-earned paper round wages most Saturday mornings.

Completely agree with the decision to restrict access to low stake low prize slots. Can't see too much harm in trying to win a fluffy toy though.

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

The ticket machines that fill up amusement arcades these days are an absolute disgrace.

They are the fruit machine equivalent of playing bonanza with an RTP of about 10%.

Ridiculous price per play and games that cost a quid ago and last about 10 seconds to spit about 5 tickets.

After going around the arcade for 20 mins and easily wasting £30-£50 u can then take ur ticket ‘haul’ to the counter and realise you’ve spent £50 on a 50p key ring. Or if ur really lucky a pack of sweets or some stickers.

Something should be done. But it won’t be.

Ticket machines have pretty much taken over under 18’s areas in arcades anyway. It’s not difficult to see why and I can assure you it has nothing to do with ‘responsible gambling’ it’s just a quicker way to rip people off.

 

[Mattue]

I used to "hang out" around the fruit machines as a kid and offer to do their nudges as I'd memorised the reels.

Sometimes they'd give me £1, or I'd find a machine with credits, or some coins lying around. The coin pushers were great as they'd often drop a few coins out while no one is playing them.

Now I think about it, I actually made a profit in those days since I never spent any of my own money and all wagers were free.

I guess those were the true good old days of gambling. It's been all downhill since then lol

 

[dunover]

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with these types of entertainment, as for most, it's a trip down to the seaside to partake of some frivolous entertainment.

When passing by I'd get engrossed in the coin- pusher games, much like the 'horse racing' betting terminals and whatever else (rigged), encaptivated by the lights & sounds show on display.

I'd imagine many of the machines being mostly unchanged in the intervening years, and hardly the draw they once appeared.

I don't see the direct correlation, nor as these machines being a gateway towards a latter-life gambling uptake; if anything, younger people are more likely to be attracted by the rusty arcade machines, or anything digital-related (been a while since we've been to eg Margate, but it's as though time stood still in all honesty).

It's not really down to the UKGC to micro-manage seasonal coin- pusher machines and their like, because then we may as well prohibit the grabber machines too, given the 'risk' involved

Actually, read Gamcare forum posts and you will find numerous stories from respondents who testify their attraction to the flashing lights and clunking coin payouts that later led to addiction, came from being able to risk money on these coin pushers and machines as children.

Remember it's not necessarily the method of the gambling but the dopamine response triggered at far too young an age. Let children drink alcopops and a good many will be winos as they approach adulthood. I totally agree with the OP - the more you think about it, the more batshit it becomes.

We shake our heads with horror when we hear tales of kids being sent up to clean chimneys 140 years ago, or being able to buy gunpowder from chemists at over 14 (until the 1950's) and this stupidity will bear similar retrospective scrutiny one day.

Funny you should mention the Grabbers - for one 30p go my daughter aged 5 at the time got the lucky 'firm grab' on one when it actually grabbed 3 soft toys at once. For the remainder of the holiday that's all she wanted to go on. So we waited one day until a child had just got the 'firm grip credit' and won and walked off with their 15p piece of Chinese tat, then we gave her 15x10p's knowing she would get 5 soft grips and grab sod-all. It worked. But even so, when talking about the holiday for the next couple of weeks, she kept proudly referring to this '3 toys in one grab' freak result she had had. It shocked me to how susceptible the minds of kids are.

 

[Avernite]

For background, I grew up in New Zealand and we moved to the UK in 2020 for a couple of years, but here we are still…

My better half and I decided to head out to Walton-on-the-Naze on the weekend for a walk along the coastline. It was so miserably windy that it wasn’t long before we found the shelter of Walton Pier. It’s a bit of a novelty for us as we have nothing like these entertainment piers in New Zealand.

Walking through the arcade we noticed the usual arcade games/ticket dispensing games. But the place was also filled with coin pusher games, and walls of slot type machines which dispensed tickets based on the outcome of spinning reels. All games were available for children to play.

I was astounded at how easily accessible gambling was for children at these venues. Nothing like conditioning children to, and normalising gambling so it’s a natural progression into gambling for money when they are of age. How is this possible? Why hasn’t the UKGC addressed this? I know they are as useful as an ashtray on a motorcycle, but even something like this should surely be in their sights?

(Mods - I’m not sure this is the most appropriate section to post this thread but I couldn’t find anywhere else that made sense - please feel free to move it to a more appropriate place)

Used to be coin pushers and coin based Plinko machines in early NZ. Pity they removed them, figured out a glitch in the latter that made me some good coin til the owner of the fish n chip store caught on and had it removed.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Actually, read Gamcare forum posts and you will find numerous stories from respondents who testify their attraction to the flashing lights and clunking coin payouts that later led to addiction, came from being able to risk money on these coin pushers and machines as children.

Remember it's not necessarily the method of the gambling but the dopamine response triggered at far too young an age. Let children drink alcopops and a good many will be winos as they approach adulthood. I totally agree with the OP - the more you think about it, the more batshit it becomes.

We shake our heads with horror when we hear tales of kids being sent up to clean chimneys 140 years ago, or being able to buy gunpowder from chemists at over 14 (until the 1950's) and this stupidity will bear similar retrospective scrutiny one day.

Funny you should mention the Grabbers - for one 30p go my daughter aged 5 at the time got the lucky 'firm grab' on one when it actually grabbed 3 soft toys at once. For the remainder of the holiday that's all she wanted to go on. So we waited one day until a child had just got the 'firm grip credit' and won and walked off with their 15p piece of Chinese tat, then we gave her 15x10p's knowing she would get 5 soft grips and grab sod-all. It worked. But even so, when talking about the holiday for the next couple of weeks, she kept proudly referring to this '3 toys in one grab' freak result she had had. It shocked me to how susceptible the minds of kids are.

Many years ago (I'm talking 2001-2002), in the early days of the Fruit Machine Emulation scene, we had a set of forums called Fruit Forums, that became very popular and active with (almost exclusively) UK based fruit machine players, past and present, who had been drawn to the emulation scene.

One day, a member called 'nestoman' (I've always remembered his username) started a thread called 'The Real Price Of Fruit Machines', and it was his admission of addiction to gambling, the ruin it had brought to his life, and was still bringing to his life. His life of gambling started as a child, playing fruit machines in seaside arcades.

Him starting the thread opened the floodgates, and member after member told their own stories, how their lives had been impacted by gambling, jobs and relationships lost, educations shattered, opportunities squandered, mental and physical health issues, the whole gamut of the effects of a crippling and consuming addiction, which were in some cases, still very much ongoing in the (at the time) present day.

And you know what the most common thread through all these stories was? Being introduced to gambling as a child on the 'fun' Amusement With Prizes machines that could be found in arcades the length and breadth of the UK, most notably in seaside resorts such as Blackpool, but as anyone of a 'certain vintage' ( ) will remember, these machines were everywhere, and because they were legally classified as 'Amusements With Prizes', children could play them, despite them obviously being gambling.

That these things existed is an aberration, a total failure of responsibility and regulation, what remains in the year 2024 (that the OP refers to, and is rightly horrified by) is very much the watered down remains of what were once gambling halls, promoted to and patronised by children, and for many of them, it set them on a path of destructive and consuming addiction, learned at a time when they were so small they needed to be lifted up to press the buttons.

 

[satchnz]

Used to be coin pushers and coin based Plinko machines in early NZ. Pity they removed them, figured out a glitch in the latter that made me some good coin til the owner of the fish n chip store caught on and had it removed.

To be fair, I’m old enough to remember these. The game pictured below was in most fish and chip takeaway places in NZ and I used to put a few 2c pieces in it to win my 2c back plus another play. In hindsight these weren’t so good for kids either.

 

[satchnz]

Just for clarity, it is the following type machines that cause the most concern for me. They look like slot machines and act like slot machines.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Just for clarity, it is the following type machines that cause the most concern for me. They look like slot machines and act like slot machines.

View attachment 192808

They are literally the same technology that UK slot machines have run on in the past, and still do, essentially converted to pay tickets instead of cash, and with derisory RTPs to boot (lower than were previously permitted, which was already an offensive 70%).

It was only a few years ago that these literally were slot machines, proper gambling, in that they took real money and paid out real money, ostensibly with a £5 jackpot, but capable of 'streaking' to many multiples of that. (£50 streaks were possible, which is a fair chunk of cash to a child.) The larger jackpot machines were restricted to Over-18s areas, but the lower jackpot machines persisted in the 'family' areas of arcades.

It's not that long ago that the regulations were finally changed to ban children from gambling in arcades (it feels slightly preposterous to even type those words), but as ever the imaginative 'industry' has found a way to sidestep things with the ticket redemption machines.

Here's some vintage footage from the 1980s and 1990s in UK arcades, in which you can clearly see children gambling.

 

[dunover]

To be fair, I’m old enough to remember these. The game pictured below was in most fish and chip takeaway places in NZ and I used to put a few 2c pieces in it to win my 2c back plus another play. In hindsight these weren’t so good for kids either.

View attachment 192807

Yes, these are also in UK seaside arcades and kids play them for 2p.

 

[Avernite]

To be fair, I’m old enough to remember these. The game pictured below was in most fish and chip takeaway places in NZ and I used to put a few 2c pieces in it to win my 2c back plus another play. In hindsight these weren’t so good for kids either.

View attachment 192807

The one I played was for 20c coins. If you flicked the lever just right you always hit the win section.

When that was removed I had to move onto unblocking coin payphones with makeshift tools. The slots were always jammed up. Sadly they removed those not long afterwards too.

As you can probably guess, I didn't grow up with money so had to get creative.

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

Go into any seaside arcade now and you will still see children gambling!!!

And parents getting ripped off even worse by spending a bullseye on what is essentially a packet of chewits.

 

[satchnz]

The one I played was for 20c coins. If you flicked the lever just right you always hit the win section.

When that was removed I had to move onto unblocking coin payphones with makeshift tools. The slots were always jammed up. Sadly they removed those not long afterwards too.

As you can probably guess, I didn't grow up with money so had to get creative.

Ok I’m older . You could also press the glass cover in the centre so the ball would often go into the win holes at either end.

 

[nfehily]

Just for clarity, it is the following type machines that cause the most concern for me. They look like slot machines and act like slot machines.

View attachment 192808

Jesus! I wouldn't let my kids anywhere near one of those things.

 

[k6kaysix]

Many seaside arcades also converted their older hardware £70 / £100 community game machines to 10p £5 jackpot for the kids, then oh look the adults can play the exact same games!

Basically 'brand recognition' as young as possible, there is even a 'Rainbow Riches' 2p coin pusher...

Growing up I was weirdly semi addicted to that 'Skill Ball Bingo' AWP, then I got a emulated copy on my PC one day and found out just how rigged it really was!

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Many seaside arcades also converted their older hardware £70 / £100 community game machines to 10p £5 jackpot for the kids, then oh look the adults can play the exact same games!

Basically 'brand recognition' as young as possible, there is even a 'Rainbow Riches' 2p coin pusher...

Growing up I was weirdly semi addicted to that 'Skill Ball Bingo' AWP, then I got a emulated copy on my PC one day and found out just how rigged it really was!

Yeah this has been a thing right since the early 90s, with 'kiddy friendly' versions of machines (the same machines!) being released on smaller stakes and prizes, even after the Over-18s sections became compulsory for the larger stakes/prizes machines. I remember in Coral Island in Blackpool, they had the £25 jackpot versions of Party Time in the roped-off adult section, but literally a few feet away, in the main area of the arcade, were the exact same games on £5 jackpots, where children could play the same machines as the adults and get their 'junior friendly' gambling fix.

 

[pekka55]

I'm from Finland and no one really cared in the 90's who played slot machines in the shops. I think it was below 15 years of age they should've asked, but I remember playing as a 12 year old on joker poker machines and no one cared. Usually there were a bunch of us playing as 12 year olds and no one really cared or noticed.

Nowadays it's better. It's 18+ and anyone that seems to be underage they'll ask papers. Also, nowadays you can't play without identifying. no matter the age.